bboy87 said:

!

Alej said:

It's been sitting in my GIF file for like 2 months just waiting.....til now

bboy87 said:

Alej said:

just my opinion, but i think a lot of it has to do with most if not all gay music icons are sexually empowered people who buck conservative rules.

though it is getting better now days, we grow up in a society where we are told to be hidden, to be quiet, to be subservient to heterosexuals. we aren't allowed in our childhood to be candid and honest or to wear our love on our sleeves the way heterosexual men are in their childhood.

so when we see an artist who says essentially "FUCK THAT", we get really excited and want to have that same in your face 'imma do what i want and fuck you if you don't like it' attitude. it's almost like our own brand of feminism.

that's why i think madonna has such a huge swath of gay men that adore her. she's a fellow second class citizen (as a woman) who has consistently fought against the gender rules and roles we are told by conservative society that we must follow.

I've never understood the fascination that so many gay men have with Madonna.

DISCUSS?

cborgman said:

You nailed it. It's all about bucking the system, and demanding some sort of equality, whether it's based on sexuality, sex, or race, or whatever.

cborgman said:

You nailed it. It's all about bucking the system, and demanding some sort of equality, whether it's based on sexuality, sex, or race, or whatever.

ernestsewell said:

but misses how we're drawn to these kinds of women before we even know what gay is.

ehuffnsd said:

i think we are drawn to people that project these taboo and myth shattering realities before we can even comprehend the myths and taboos of being gay.i think it's instinctual.


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[Edited 12/25/09 10:33am]

ehuffnsd said:

good point.

i think a lot of that is instinct. we are born gay, it is lying dormant in us long before we can evn begin to understand what it is and what it means. and we act upon the non-sexual side of being gay long before we are even aware of it.

prince and madonna were my first, and to date, two of my strongest, artistic influences in music. at the age of 6, i was immensley taken by their candidness and fearlessness in wearing their sexuality unabashedly and unapologetically. if i had been born earlier, it probably would have been bowie and cher, or chaka khan or whomever. but as a child of the 80s, it was prince and madonna for me.

i think that is also where a lot of simple-minded folks fear that listening to certain music will make you gay. they don't understand that you are already, have always been, and will always be gay, long before you could even understand even "dada" and "mama", let alone sexuality. the music doesn't turn you gay, the music just reflects who you already are.

my father banned prince and madonna from our house very quickly out of his fear and the nagging truth that it was very likely i was gay. it didn't stop me from being gay, and he was only able to stop me from watching and listening to prince and madonna for as long as i was under his thumb. the first thing i did when i got into foster care was buy "like a prayer" and "purple rain"

i think we are drawn to people that project these taboo and myth shattering realities before we can even comprehend the myths and taboos of being gay.i think it's instinctual.


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[Edited 12/25/09 10:33am]

cborgman said:

did you read what i posted about Harry Hay?

ehuffnsd said:

yes. it's an intersting concept he has, but i am not sure i agree, only because i don't think it has much to do with religious concept or deities

cborgman said:

it's from the same series of essays he wrote while forming the Radical Fairies, so he was defiantly looking at the spiritual aspects of being a homophile as he liked to call it.

ehuffnsd said:

obviously, i would need to read it all before really commenting much, but... it's an intersting way of viewing it. i don't necessarily agree, but it's a novel approach.

cborgman said:

i think as gay people we do have some fears of spirituality because of the way the Church treats, so that's where his whole movement started. i think there is some major truth to there is just something in us that draws us to certain types of women to elevate them before we even form a community. we don't collectivly idolize Elton John, George Michael, Boy George or whomever else in the same light. We go to the men for sexual reasons of course but when it comes to idolization gay men tend to focus on certain archtypical female aspects. clearly years before we even know we are gay ourselves.

ehuffnsd said:

i think a lot of that stems from the fact that many of our most famous gay men don't provide us with a very good image. elton john and boy george, while both very talented, are cunty bitches. same with rupert everett, even though he's not music. i wince everytime i hear one of the three of them trashing other celebrities out of spite.

and george michael, while i am a HUGE fan, has created a media image in which he is a serious drug addict who cruises for sex, as does boy george.

all of the above only further the stereotypes. so does perez hilton (whom i despise). some people love them for it, some of us don't. i prefer say, ellen degeneres, portia derossi, gore vidal, lily tomlin, wanda sykes and the more normal examples. as much as i LOVE LOVE LOVE that crazy bitch rosie, she actually provides us with a less than positive example.

of course, it is somewhat of a double standard. no straight people have to represent the straight community as a whole, but...again, we are in our imfant stages.

cborgman said:

i dunno. i've been a diva fan since i was tiny.

ehuffnsd said:

that's why i think we tend to embrace female divas over our own brothers and sisters of the rainbow. they buck the stereotypes and the system, without ever having been held to that double standard. they aren't gay people making us look bad, they are (mostly) straight people saying the stereotypes and rules and standards are bullshit.

but then their examples to the contrary. donna summer and prince have both maintained their gay icon status despite having reversed course and talked poorly of us and enforced the system. i think a lot of that is we already love them, so we just invalidate their crap and still love them. (although i am not a donna summer fan)

i've asked all my friends from the straightest acting to the most flamming and everyone has a diva, and their divas have been with them for as long as they can remember. A gay writer and historical figure, Harry Hay, tried to sum it up in one of his essays.


In prehistory since homosexuals were free from the labors of child rearing they were free to come up with ideas like God, Music and whatnot. And as time roled on these same gays would found the major religious traditions of the world like a very well known one called the Cybele who had priestess that dressed in women's clothes, these vestments survive in the Catholic Church today. Since we've always been naturally inclined to the role of the sacred female divinity we transferred that from the Mother to our Gay Divas

ehuffnsd said:

I'd have to read Mr. Hay's work, but I disagree with the general premise that our love for divas is somehow rooted in spirituality. I believe as adults we seek empowering figures who simply embrace and represent the full spectrum of our community; Daughtry simply isn't going to do this. When we are very young, we identify with popular figures who eschew traditional gender roles and societal norms - often, these are divas - and assist us in our own quest for liberation and independence. Everyone has to deal with certain hurdles in youth, and for gays, that often involves understanding and accepting our sexuality. Most youth find music that they can relate to and that helps them on their own personal journeys - and gay youth do the same.
[Edited 12/25/09 13:11pm]

VoicesCarry said:

all i know i was three years old spinning around in the family room to Bette Midler's Is It Love and my love of divas have grown ever since.

Harry Hay is the founder of the Mattachine Society and the Radical Fairie movement. a great man.

ehuffnsd said:

Good for him. That doesn't mean I have to agree with him.

VoicesCarry said:

just stating it for those that don't know who he is. we are bad about passing on our history.

VoicesCarry said:

all i know i was three years old spinning around in the family room to Bette Midler's Is It Love and my love of divas have grown ever since.

Harry Hay is the founder of the Mattachine Society and the Radical Fairie movement. a great man.

he and his partner, John Burnside, were spiritual friends and leaders of the founding members of SPI
[Edited 12/25/09 13:17pm]

ehuffnsd said:

he's certainly an important person in the footnotes of our history, but a somewhat dated footnote.

the mattachine society was one if if not the first american gropup with notable effect in american gay history.

he was revolutionary at the time, somewhat passe by today's standards.