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PrintableViintageJunkiie said: babybugz said: I'm not disagreeing with you ,, I just know that everything wasn't leave it to beaverish behind the scenes  but Michael made mistakes in things in my opinion that cost himOh I know you weren't disagreeing, I was just adding on to what I said. LOL. | |
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mj recently said that joe ..stripped him naked and had him rubbed down in oil before bein whipped. do you all think thats true or is his memory exaggerating things? 
also he tripped him, thats bein a bully. not a dad | |
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babybugz said: I believe something was going on because something is not mentally right with them ... Michael being the number one ( not to disrespect them but just saying). He was doing something to those kids. 
mj didnt become *sick* overnight. it took years and years | |
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dearmother said: babybugz said: I believe something was going on because something is not mentally right with them ... Michael being the number one ( not to disrespect them but just saying). He was doing something to those kids.
mj didnt become *sick* overnight. it took years and years I don't think it was just the beatings.( Lots of people got whoopings in those days) It was also the pressure of a young kid having to perform for years with no breaks and no regular life. Dude was on stage since 8, and performing in Mr. Lucky's stripe club. I think that is what really messed MJ up. Think about all the adult artist that collasped under the pressure of fame. | |
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oh yeah fame+isolation is bad for anyone. i think we can all agree the beatings didnt help any, not for a sensitive kid
"I think all my success and fame, and I wanted it, I wanted it because I wanted to be loved" | |
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musicjunky318 said: I'm still trying to figure out what the big deal is about Joe Jackson. I mean the way people go on it's like this man was throwing left-hooks at his children just because the sky was blue. LOL...was the house that horrifying? I don't think so. But I'm sure he wanted things a certain way and if you stepped out of line you got disciplined. I mean come on can he really be that devilish, this is the same person who worked 2 jobs just to feed his family. He saw talent in his sons and did everything in his power to help cultivate it in order to put all of them in a better position. He's got his negatives, though from my perspective this is more about an emotional detachment from his children then being Mike Tyson. To this day I don't understand demanding you're own sons & daughters addressing you by your first name but you know, whateva.
Michael was a sensative person. He wanted to be held, he wanted to be kissed, he wanted a father to physically lean on. And Joe just wasn't made that way. On the outside he seemed cold and stern, even though on the inside he knew he loved all of them. Jackie, Tito, Janet, etc...yea they're all siblings but they're all made different. Michael perhaps needed something from Joe & Katherine that the others didn't. Oh...and Michael said his father beat him with a belt and a switch sixteen years ago, praised him practically ever since, and all people want to talk about is how abusive he was. Katherine said they were mutually strict, and the other 8 Jacksons have all said their father was old school, save for the years Latoya was hopping around from one station to the next calling him names, branding Michael a pedophile, and talking about how much of a Jew-bashing bitch her mother was. But ALL people want to latch onto is how the Jackson children got spanked. GET REAL. The media works like clock-work and has no end. Repeat a story enough and the masses will believe it. Michael knew a little something about that. That conversation is so tired and the Jackson's are telling us it's tired but it's too late now...the damage has been done. If both Michael and Janet wouldnt of cried or even been sad if he had of died in the 80's, he definitley did much worse things then all of us know about | |
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Arnotts said: musicjunky318 said: I'm still trying to figure out what the big deal is about Joe Jackson. I mean the way people go on it's like this man was throwing left-hooks at his children just because the sky was blue. LOL...was the house that horrifying? I don't think so. But I'm sure he wanted things a certain way and if you stepped out of line you got disciplined. I mean come on can he really be that devilish, this is the same person who worked 2 jobs just to feed his family. He saw talent in his sons and did everything in his power to help cultivate it in order to put all of them in a better position. He's got his negatives, though from my perspective this is more about an emotional detachment from his children then being Mike Tyson. To this day I don't understand demanding you're own sons & daughters addressing you by your first name but you know, whateva.
Michael was a sensative person. He wanted to be held, he wanted to be kissed, he wanted a father to physically lean on. And Joe just wasn't made that way. On the outside he seemed cold and stern, even though on the inside he knew he loved all of them. Jackie, Tito, Janet, etc...yea they're all siblings but they're all made different. Michael perhaps needed something from Joe & Katherine that the others didn't. Oh...and Michael said his father beat him with a belt and a switch sixteen years ago, praised him practically ever since, and all people want to talk about is how abusive he was. Katherine said they were mutually strict, and the other 8 Jacksons have all said their father was old school, save for the years Latoya was hopping around from one station to the next calling him names, branding Michael a pedophile, and talking about how much of a Jew-bashing bitch her mother was. But ALL people want to latch onto is how the Jackson children got spanked. GET REAL. The media works like clock-work and has no end. Repeat a story enough and the masses will believe it. Michael knew a little something about that. That conversation is so tired and the Jackson's are telling us it's tired but it's too late now...the damage has been done. If both Michael and Janet wouldnt of cried or even been sad if he had of died in the 80's, he definitley did much worse things then all of us know about "If you ever stop singing, I'll drop you like hot potatoes", Joe told his kids. People don't usually think about it, but Joe was REALLY jealous of Michael. Remember that Joe's ambition was to become a professional singer, with the Falcons. When Michael started becoming recognized as a child prodigy, Joe became so JEALOUS that he insulted Michael wih the most mean-spirited insults one can think about. "You are too ugly to be my child", "I hate your nose", "You're ugly", "You're a nothing", he made fun of his son's acne problem...Joe would say this to Michael. And he beat his kids all the time. He used to lock Michael in closets, make him take off his clothes, then oil his body and finally beat him with a beat or a iron cord. If one of his kids dared to miss a step or a note after 10 hours of rehearsels, Joe would beat them the way I described. He also used to beat his kids and then put salt in the wounds if they asked him to go play. Is that discipline? No, It's abuse. People usually see Joe as a blue collar steel worker, but the fact is that he quited his job after realizing that he could make money off of his kids. He then made his 5 years old son perform for 10 hours a day and, at night, he had to be in a car for 2 hours in order to perform at some strip club. He isolated Michael from the real world and exploited him to no end. Furthermore, Joe was a sex addict. I think that fact is no secret. He didn't hide it from his sons, in fact, Joe encouraged his sons to be sex addicts as well. Joe cheated on Katherine constantly and used the money his kids had earned in order to buy his mistresses gifts. Then Michael fired him as his manager and Joe spent his time making shemes on Michael's back in order to make money off of his son even if that meant interfering in his career, and making his life a living hell by hounding/pressuring/stalking him in order to get money and put his hands on his son's pie. Remember how many times Joe delayed Michael's career? Remember that Joe used to salivate whenever his son was about to make money? Remember what he and Leonard Rowe did to Michael in the last days of his life? Randy Philips said this; "Michael told me to be careful because his dad would hound him to get a piece of the pie like he always did. Joe always wanted to be in control, he would always be making plans to control Michael and his money.". Remember when Joe used to trick Michael into signing contracts that would benefit Joe exclusively? He had another daughter whom he cared about despite the fact that he never showed Michael affection or love. He told his kids that he was proud of her while treating them as dogs. I could go on and on and on but it's too much. I've read so many things that it makes it impossible for me to see Joe as a human being. He's a monster. [Edited 12/25/09 7:38am] | |
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When Joe went to Bangkok to see Michael for the first time since the first allegations of sexual misconduct with a minor hit, the first thing he did was pressure Michael to appear in that Jackson F. Honors show.
There's a reason as to why Michael and Janet used to laugh/show indifference whenever they imagined Joe on a casket. Michael said he used to vomit or faint whenever he was in Joe's presence. Or was it because Joe was a very good person? Strange, uh. | |
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 "Old man's gotta be the old man. Fish has got to be the fish." | |
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MOL said: Arnotts said: If both Michael and Janet wouldnt of cried or even been sad if he had of died in the 80's, he definitley did much worse things then all of us know about "If you ever stop singing, I'll drop you like hot potatoes", Joe told his kids. People don't usually think about it, but Joe was REALLY jealous of Michael. Remember that Joe's ambition was to become a professional singer, with the Falcons. When Michael started becoming recognized as a child prodigy, Joe became so JEALOUS that he insulted Michael wih the most mean-spirited insults one can think about. "You are too ugly to be my child", "I hate your nose", "You're ugly", "You're a nothing", he made fun of his son's acne problem...Joe would say this to Michael. And he beat his kids all the time. He used to lock Michael in closets, make him take off his clothes, then oil his body and finally beat him with a beat or a iron cord. If one of his kids dared to miss a step or a note after 10 hours of rehearsels, Joe would beat them the way I described. He also used to beat his kids and then put salt in the wounds if they asked him to go play. Is that discipline? No, It's abuse. People usually see Joe as a blue collar steel worker, but the fact is that he quited his job after realizing that he could make money off of his kids. He then made his 5 years old son perform for 10 hours a day and, at night, he had to be in a car for 2 hours in order to perform at some strip club. He isolated Michael from the real world and exploited him to no end. Furthermore, Joe was a sex addict. I think that fact is no secret. He didn't hide it from his sons, in fact, Joe encouraged his sons to be sex addicts as well. Joe cheated on Katherine constantly and used the money his kids had earned in order to buy his mistresses gifts. Then Michael fired him as his manager and Joe spent his time making shemes on Michael's back in order to make money off of his son even if that meant interfering in his career. Remember what he and Leonard Rowe did to Michael in the last days of his life? Randy Philips said this; "Michael told me to be careful because his dad would hound him to get a piece of the pie like he always did. Joe always wanted to be in control, he would always be making plans to control Michael and his money.". Remember when Joe used to trick Michael into signing contracts that would benefit Joe exclusively? He had another daughter whom he cared about despite the fact that he never showed Michael affection or love. He told his kids that he was proud of her while treating them as dogs. I could go on and on and on but it's too much. I've read so many things that it makes it impossible for me to see Joe as a human being. He's a monster. You just know everything don't you? Did you grow up with them? Did you interact with them daily where you know every single thing that was ever said? I know what Michael has stated in the past but unlike most I don't try to grasp onto just 50% of it. Their 50 year relationship ran far deeper than that. I want the whole picture, and the whole picture dictates the contrary. Am I trying to give him a halo? No, but maybe I'm not naive enough to believe this man is the incarnation of the devil either. Did it ever occur to you that Michael's psyche would automatically differ from the rest of them considering the pressure that was put on him? Because that's what it was and what ultimately caused his demise. Pressure and being taken advantage of by people who didn't give a shit about him. You can go on and on about how Joe only wanted money and control but if you examine the time-line, Michael's problems didn't really begin until he fired his father, moved out, and secluded himself from his entire family. Jermaine, Rebbie, Janet, and Tito have all stated in the past how their phone-calls to him would never be returned. Michael got caught up in the hype and maybe if he was surrounded by his parents and siblings, the people that actually gave a damn about him, for the last couple of years instead of these random leeches he'd still be here today. I could careless about one-word or one-sentence characterizations and I could careless about those that use them to somehow define his 80 years on earth. Sorry. Life is much more complex than that and when you add celebrity in the equation separating fact from fiction becomes that much harder. Like Michael said in his Oxford speech, you have to understand who we're talking about. Joe Jackson is a fucking 80-year-old black man from Arkansas. Not New York, not California...a young black man growing up in rural Arkansas. I don't know what that says to you, but to me that's a statement within itself. How dare anyone ever try to make light of his story. You don't know what makes a person whole until you know their entire reality and if only half of these people could have walked a day in his shoes maybe they'd have a different outlook. Like I said in my previous post, this is the same man who saw talent in his sons and jumped at the opportunity to show it in order for them to make something of themselves. He pushed them because he loved them, because he wanted nobody to ever look down at his offspring. And now because of it, his grandchildren and great grandchildren and all that come after never have to worry about their economic state and wonderinig if Dad & Mom are gonna be able to make next month's payment. You know, you may not agree with all his methods, but if it's a crime to better you and your family then hey, I don't know what else to say. Joe nor Katherine were saints and the family has had their share of problems but neither one were the devil either. There may have been things that shouldn't have been said and acts that shouldn't have carried out but that doesn't totally define them. Judge the whole picture, not pieces and portions. | |
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MOL said: Arnotts said: If both Michael and Janet wouldnt of cried or even been sad if he had of died in the 80's, he definitley did much worse things then all of us know about "If you ever stop singing, I'll drop you like hot potatoes", Joe told his kids. People don't usually think about it, but Joe was REALLY jealous of Michael. Remember that Joe's ambition was to become a professional singer, with the Falcons. When Michael started becoming recognized as a child prodigy, Joe became so JEALOUS that he insulted Michael wih the most mean-spirited insults one can think about. "You are too ugly to be my child", "I hate your nose", "You're ugly", "You're a nothing", he made fun of his son's acne problem...Joe would say this to Michael. And he beat his kids all the time. He used to lock Michael in closets, make him take off his clothes, then oil his body and finally beat him with a beat or a iron cord. If one of his kids dared to miss a step or a note after 10 hours of rehearsels, Joe would beat them the way I described. He also used to beat his kids and then put salt in the wounds if they asked him to go play. Is that discipline? No, It's abuse. People usually see Joe as a blue collar steel worker, but the fact is that he quited his job after realizing that he could make money off of his kids. He then made his 5 years old son perform for 10 hours a day and, at night, he had to be in a car for 2 hours in order to perform at some strip club. He isolated Michael from the real world and exploited him to no end. Furthermore, Joe was a sex addict. I think that fact is no secret. He didn't hide it from his sons, in fact, Joe encouraged his sons to be sex addicts as well. Joe cheated on Katherine constantly and used the money his kids had earned in order to buy his mistresses gifts. Then Michael fired him as his manager and Joe spent his time making shemes on Michael's back in order to make money off of his son even if that meant interfering in his career, and making his life a living hell by hounding/pressuring/stalking him in order to get money and put his hands on his son's pie. Remember how many times Joe delayed Michael's career? Remember that Joe used to salivate whenever his son was about to make money? Remember what he and Leonard Rowe did to Michael in the last days of his life? Randy Philips said this; "Michael told me to be careful because his dad would hound him to get a piece of the pie like he always did. Joe always wanted to be in control, he would always be making plans to control Michael and his money.". Remember when Joe used to trick Michael into signing contracts that would benefit Joe exclusively? He had another daughter whom he cared about despite the fact that he never showed Michael affection or love. He told his kids that he was proud of her while treating them as dogs. I could go on and on and on but it's too much. I've read so many things that it makes it impossible for me to see Joe as a human being. He's a monster. [Edited 12/25/09 7:38am] good points. esp. joe being jealous of michael. ive thought that before and i agree. another thing is he didn't let the kids call him DAD. pretty sad if you ask me, i guess with all the groupies around he got embarrassed. and you dont trick ur son into signing contracts "hey michael, if u sign this u'll get to meet fred astaire." 
i also agree w/ musicjunky as ridiculous as the family atmoshphere was...that michael leavin the house was a really bad thing. as joe got older he retired from being sucha monster. [Edited 12/25/09 10:15am] | |
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musicjunky318 said: MOL said: "If you ever stop singing, I'll drop you like hot potatoes", Joe told his kids. People don't usually think about it, but Joe was REALLY jealous of Michael. Remember that Joe's ambition was to become a professional singer, with the Falcons. When Michael started becoming recognized as a child prodigy, Joe became so JEALOUS that he insulted Michael wih the most mean-spirited insults one can think about. "You are too ugly to be my child", "I hate your nose", "You're ugly", "You're a nothing", he made fun of his son's acne problem...Joe would say this to Michael. And he beat his kids all the time. He used to lock Michael in closets, make him take off his clothes, then oil his body and finally beat him with a beat or a iron cord. If one of his kids dared to miss a step or a note after 10 hours of rehearsels, Joe would beat them the way I described. He also used to beat his kids and then put salt in the wounds if they asked him to go play. Is that discipline? No, It's abuse. People usually see Joe as a blue collar steel worker, but the fact is that he quited his job after realizing that he could make money off of his kids. He then made his 5 years old son perform for 10 hours a day and, at night, he had to be in a car for 2 hours in order to perform at some strip club. He isolated Michael from the real world and exploited him to no end. Furthermore, Joe was a sex addict. I think that fact is no secret. He didn't hide it from his sons, in fact, Joe encouraged his sons to be sex addicts as well. Joe cheated on Katherine constantly and used the money his kids had earned in order to buy his mistresses gifts. Then Michael fired him as his manager and Joe spent his time making shemes on Michael's back in order to make money off of his son even if that meant interfering in his career. Remember what he and Leonard Rowe did to Michael in the last days of his life? Randy Philips said this; "Michael told me to be careful because his dad would hound him to get a piece of the pie like he always did. Joe always wanted to be in control, he would always be making plans to control Michael and his money.". Remember when Joe used to trick Michael into signing contracts that would benefit Joe exclusively? He had another daughter whom he cared about despite the fact that he never showed Michael affection or love. He told his kids that he was proud of her while treating them as dogs. I could go on and on and on but it's too much. I've read so many things that it makes it impossible for me to see Joe as a human being. He's a monster. You just know everything don't you? Did you grow up with them? Did you interact with them daily where you know every single thing that was ever said? I know what Michael has stated in the past but unlike most I don't try to grasp onto just 50% of it. Their 50 year relationship ran far deeper than that. I want the whole picture, and the whole picture dictates the contrary. Am I trying to give him a halo? No, but maybe I'm not naive enough to believe this man is the incarnation of the devil either. Did it ever occur to you that Michael's psyche would automatically differ from the rest of them considering the pressure that was put on him? Because that's what it was and what ultimately caused his demise. Pressure and being taken advantage of by people who didn't give a shit about him. You can go on and on about how Joe only wanted money and control but if you examine the time-line, Michael's problems didn't really begin until he fired his father, moved out, and secluded himself from his entire family. Jermaine, Rebbie, Janet, and Tito have all stated in the past how their phone-calls to him would never be returned. Michael got caught up in the hype and maybe if he was surrounded by his parents and siblings, the people that actually gave a damn about him, for the last couple of years instead of these random leeches he'd still be here today. I could careless about one-word or one-sentence characterizations and I could careless about those that use them to somehow define his 80 years on earth. Sorry. Life is much more complex than that and when you add celebrity in the equation separating fact from fiction becomes that much harder. Like Michael said in his Oxford speech, you have to understand who we're talking about. Joe Jackson is a fucking 80-year-old black man from Arkansas. Not New York, not California...a young black man growing up in rural Arkansas. I don't know what that says to you, but to me that's a statement within itself. How dare anyone ever try to make light of his story. You don't know what makes a person whole until you know their entire reality and if only half of these people could have walked a day in his shoes maybe they'd have a different outlook. Like I said in my previous post, this is the same man who saw talent in his sons and jumped at the opportunity to show it in order for them to make something of themselves. He pushed them because he loved them, because he wanted nobody to ever look down at his offspring. And now because of it, his grandchildren and great grandchildren and all that come after never have to worry about their economic state and wonderinig if Dad & Mom are gonna be able to make next month's payment. You know, you may not agree with all his methods, but if it's a crime to better you and your family then hey, I don't know what else to say. Joe nor Katherine were saints and the family has had their share of problems but neither one were the devil either. There may have been things that shouldn't have been said and acts that shouldn't have carried out but that doesn't totally define them. Judge the whole picture, not pieces and portions.  | |
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musicjunky318 said: MOL said: "If you ever stop singing, I'll drop you like hot potatoes", Joe told his kids. People don't usually think about it, but Joe was REALLY jealous of Michael. Remember that Joe's ambition was to become a professional singer, with the Falcons. When Michael started becoming recognized as a child prodigy, Joe became so JEALOUS that he insulted Michael wih the most mean-spirited insults one can think about. "You are too ugly to be my child", "I hate your nose", "You're ugly", "You're a nothing", he made fun of his son's acne problem...Joe would say this to Michael. And he beat his kids all the time. He used to lock Michael in closets, make him take off his clothes, then oil his body and finally beat him with a beat or a iron cord. If one of his kids dared to miss a step or a note after 10 hours of rehearsels, Joe would beat them the way I described. He also used to beat his kids and then put salt in the wounds if they asked him to go play. Is that discipline? No, It's abuse. People usually see Joe as a blue collar steel worker, but the fact is that he quited his job after realizing that he could make money off of his kids. He then made his 5 years old son perform for 10 hours a day and, at night, he had to be in a car for 2 hours in order to perform at some strip club. He isolated Michael from the real world and exploited him to no end. Furthermore, Joe was a sex addict. I think that fact is no secret. He didn't hide it from his sons, in fact, Joe encouraged his sons to be sex addicts as well. Joe cheated on Katherine constantly and used the money his kids had earned in order to buy his mistresses gifts. Then Michael fired him as his manager and Joe spent his time making shemes on Michael's back in order to make money off of his son even if that meant interfering in his career. Remember what he and Leonard Rowe did to Michael in the last days of his life? Randy Philips said this; "Michael told me to be careful because his dad would hound him to get a piece of the pie like he always did. Joe always wanted to be in control, he would always be making plans to control Michael and his money.". Remember when Joe used to trick Michael into signing contracts that would benefit Joe exclusively? He had another daughter whom he cared about despite the fact that he never showed Michael affection or love. He told his kids that he was proud of her while treating them as dogs. I could go on and on and on but it's too much. I've read so many things that it makes it impossible for me to see Joe as a human being. He's a monster. You just know everything don't you? Did you grow up with them? Did you interact with them daily where you know every single thing that was ever said? I know what Michael has stated in the past but unlike most I don't try to grasp onto just 50% of it. Their 50 year relationship ran far deeper than that. I want the whole picture, and the whole picture dictates the contrary. Am I trying to give him a halo? No, but maybe I'm not naive enough to believe this man is the incarnation of the devil either. Did it ever occur to you that Michael's psyche would automatically differ from the rest of them considering the pressure that was put on him? Because that's what it was and what ultimately caused his demise. Pressure and being taken advantage of by people who didn't give a shit about him. You can go on and on about how Joe only wanted money and control but if you examine the time-line, Michael's problems didn't really begin until he fired his father, moved out, and secluded himself from his entire family. Jermaine, Rebbie, Janet, and Tito have all stated in the past how their phone-calls to him would never be returned. Michael got caught up in the hype and maybe if he was surrounded by his parents and siblings, the people that actually gave a damn about him, for the last couple of years instead of these random leeches he'd still be here today. I could careless about one-word or one-sentence characterizations and I could careless about those that use them to somehow define his 80 years on earth. Sorry. Life is much more complex than that and when you add celebrity in the equation separating fact from fiction becomes that much harder. Like Michael said in his Oxford speech, you have to understand who we're talking about. Joe Jackson is a fucking 80-year-old black man from Arkansas. Not New York, not California...a young black man growing up in rural Arkansas. I don't know what that says to you, but to me that's a statement within itself. How dare anyone ever try to make light of his story. You don't know what makes a person whole until you know their entire reality and if only half of these people could have walked a day in his shoes maybe they'd have a different outlook. Like I said in my previous post, this is the same man who saw talent in his sons and jumped at the opportunity to show it in order for them to make something of themselves. He pushed them because he loved them, because he wanted nobody to ever look down at his offspring. And now because of it, his grandchildren and great grandchildren and all that come after never have to worry about their economic state and wonderinig if Dad & Mom are gonna be able to make next month's payment. You know, you may not agree with all his methods, but if it's a crime to better you and your family then hey, I don't know what else to say. Joe nor Katherine were saints and the family has had their share of problems but neither one were the devil either. There may have been things that shouldn't have been said and acts that shouldn't have carried out but that doesn't totally define them. Judge the whole picture, not pieces and portions. Look, let's look at the facts, shall we? Read my post again. This time, take the blinders and the pink colored glasses off. I stated facts and, maybe, you should take a look at them. [Edited 12/25/09 12:58pm] | |
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MOL said: When Joe went to Bangkok to see Michael for the first time since the first allegations of sexual misconduct with a minor hit, the first thing he did was pressure Michael to appear in that Jackson F. Honors show.
There's a reason as to why Michael and Janet used to laugh/show indifference whenever they imagined Joe on a casket. Michael said he used to vomit or faint whenever he was in Joe's presence. Or was it because Joe was a very good person? Strange, uh. Did someone conveniently forget to read this post? | |
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Blah blah blah...Joe Jackson just wanted the best for his sons. He wanted them to be profitable. He didn't care about their success. Proof? What about taking a look at his management choices? | |
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MusicJunky, there's a reason as to why Michael moved out of Hayvenrhust and I don't think it happened because some members of his family were nice to him. Sorry! Or do you REALLY think Jermaine was never an ass to everyone especially Michael? Or do you really think Joe treated Michael like a human being? Or do you really think Katherine never manipulated Michael? You have to admit that Joe used Michael (ex: Joe ordered Michael to produce Latoya's first single. Why? I think you know the answer. He knew the single would be good and would sell. Who was Latoya's manager and would eventually benefit? Yap, you KNOW THE ANSWER).
Music, I think you are THE ONE who claims to know everything! I'M JUST STATING FACTS available to anyone. You are the one babbling about this and that while making SUPPOSITIONS. You claim Joe wanted this and that, but FACTS show differently. You seem to be "forgeting" to read some PROVED stuffed while claiming that Joe just loved his sons and wnated the best for them. FACTS proved that the story wasn't that pink but you keep making NONPROVED suppositions as if you were in the man's mind. I don't care about where was Joe born. There is no excuse to be an exploiter. Period. Quincy Jones: "This family fights about what day it is. It's all about the money.". This, maybe, explains why Michael- curiously the one who had the money- moved out of Hayvenhurst. This, maybe, explains what Randy did to Michael during the trial? Or....do you have selective memory? [Edited 12/25/09 13:11pm] [Edited 12/25/09 13:16pm] [Edited 12/25/09 13:18pm] [Edited 12/25/09 13:19pm] | |
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THE FACT YOU, MUSIC, SEEM TO DISMISS:
Schumley Boteach: Michael, do you think your father saw you as a moneymaking machine? Michael: Yes. But, hey, Michael was the bad one. He didn't understand Joe! Bah...too bad! [Sarcasm] | |
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MOL and musicjunky318 both have points. Joe wasn't a great dad and Michael made bad choices | |
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MOL said: This, maybe, explains what Randy did to Michael during the trial? Or....do you have selective memory?
wait what? | |
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dearmother said: MOL said: This, maybe, explains what Randy did to Michael during the trial? Or....do you have selective memory?
wait what? You don't know? Well, do some research about it. But, hey (!), whenever you start seeing Michael's siblings and parents true colours turn off the computer. It maybe too much for a decent person to handle. [Edited 12/25/09 13:23pm] | |
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dang okay
i agree about the family being messed up. i respect janet the most and she sounds pretty cut off from the fam too, coincidence? dont think so | |
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dearmother said: dang okay
i agree about the family being messed up. i respect janet the most and she sounds pretty cut off from the fam too, coincidence? dont think so I've sent you an orgnote.  | |
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babybugz said: MOL and musicjunky318 both have points. Joe wasn't a great dad and Michael made bad choices
But, come on, there has to be a reason for a 35 man to be playing hide and seek, don't you think? With that said, I don't think Michael was, for example, so childlike due to his bad choices or behaviour or whatever. There has to be an extracurricular reason. There has to be a reason behind so much plastic surgery. There has to be a reason behind someone not knowing shit about what a normal life is. Bad choices? Michael's siblings' sex addiction, broke claims, terrible parenting, dangerous and sexist behaviour and much more aren't bad choices? The thing is; you can have as much plastic surgery as you want. You can be playing hide and seek and doing kiddie shit as much as you want. That is NOT dangerous. That doesn't harm anyone. But...doing what some of Michael's siblings did like refusing to pay child support, being a terrible dad and husbanda nd the list goes on and on IS HARMFULL. [Edited 12/25/09 13:50pm] | |
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There's a reason as to why Michael distanced himself from his family.
We all know what Joe and Leonard Rowe did to Michael in the last days of his life (which reflects what Joe did to Michael his entire life).---> Here's the first reason Ever heard one of Michael's bodyguards (Mike La Perruque) 1st of July interview? Have you have heard the part in which he says that Michael's brothers hounded him endlessly to do a reunion tour and many times, due to that, Michael didn't answer the phone? Remember the part in which the bodyguard says Michael's brothers pressured him to do what they wanted ALL THE TIME?---> reason 2 [Edited 12/25/09 14:15pm] [Edited 12/25/09 14:17pm] | |
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MOL said: babybugz said: MOL and musicjunky318 both have points. Joe wasn't a great dad and Michael made bad choices
But, come on, there has to be a reason for a 35 man to be playing hide and seek, don't you think? With that said, I don't think Michael was, for example, so childlike due to his bad choices or behaviour or whatever. There has to be an extracurricular reason. There has to be a reason behind so much plastic surgery. There has to be a reason behind someone not knowing shit about what a normal life is. Bad choices? Michael's siblings' sex addiction, broke claims, terrible parenting, dangerous and sexist behaviour and much more aren't bad choices? The thing is; you can have as much plastic surgery as you want. You can be playing hide and seek and doing kiddie shit as much as you want. That is NOT dangerous. That doesn't harm anyone. But...doing what some of Michael's siblings did like refusing to pay child support, being a terrible dad and husbanda nd the list goes on and on IS HARMFULL. [Edited 12/25/09 13:50pm] I'm not disagreeing that the family got problems I stated that earlier in the post that something not right with them if you look back a page .I do believe Joe was abusive towards them and also I believe that fame was TOO MUCH for Michael and that he surrounded himself around not so good people.[Edited 12/25/09 14:10pm] | |
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MOL said: There's a reason as to why Michael distanced himself from his family.
We all know what Joe and Leonard Rowe did to Michael in the last days of his life (which reflect what Joe did to Michael his entire life.---> Here's the first reason Have heard one of Michael's bodyguard (Mike La Perruque) 1st of July interview? Have you have hear the part in which he says that Michael's brothers hounded endlessly him to do a reunion tour? Remember the part in which the bodyguard says Michael's brothers pressured him to do wht they wanted ALL THE TIME?---> reason 2 Dang... every conversation leads to the "horrible" Jackson Family- Please are you a secret family member out to destroy this family's name. These people are far from perfect like everyone else in the world. Maybe, if Michael would have reunioned with his family instead of surrounding himself with the leeches of doctors,and promoters he involved himself with he would still be alive. They killed him not the Jackson Family. So what! The brothers wanted him to tour with them. Those leeches keep Michael Jackson away from his family so they could CONTROL and ULTIMATELY KILL HIM!!!! | |
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luv4ever said: MOL said: There's a reason as to why Michael distanced himself from his family.
We all know what Joe and Leonard Rowe did to Michael in the last days of his life (which reflect what Joe did to Michael his entire life.---> Here's the first reason Have heard one of Michael's bodyguard (Mike La Perruque) 1st of July interview? Have you have hear the part in which he says that Michael's brothers hounded endlessly him to do a reunion tour? Remember the part in which the bodyguard says Michael's brothers pressured him to do wht they wanted ALL THE TIME?---> reason 2 Dang... every conversation leads to the "horrible" Jackson Family- Please are you a secret family member out to destroy this family's name. These people are far from perfect like everyone else in the world. Maybe, if Michael would have reunioned with his family instead of surrounding himself with the leeches of doctors,and promoters he involved himself with he would still be alive. They killed him not the Jackson Family. So what! The brothers wanted him to tour with them. Those leeches keep Michael Jackson away from his family so they could CONTROL and ULTIMATELY KILL HIM!!!! ??? Sorry, maybe I'm too dumb for such an eloquent person like you but...who exactly are you talking about? AEG? Pressuring/hounding/stalking/harassing a brother constantly to do a reunion tour (translation: use Michael in order to make money and rejuvenate their careers) without bothering to talk about anything else is NOT ethical. But, hey (!)...I'm just like Diane Dimond, uh? They've been doing it since the Victory Tour. [Edited 12/25/09 14:22pm] [Edited 12/25/09 14:23pm] | |
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let's not go overboard here
michael killed himself slowly, being as shy as he was he internalizes things..unlike his brothers, it seems But, come on, there has to be a reason for a 35 man to be playing hide and seek, don't you think? With that said, I don't think Michael was, for example, so childlike due to his bad choices or behaviour or whatever. There has to be an extracurricular reason.
There has to be a reason behind so much plastic surgery. There has to be a reason behind someone not knowing shit about what a normal life is. yup | |
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I think everything started going bad after thriller and when he made neverland but this is just my opinion  | |
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luv4ever said: MOL said: There's a reason as to why Michael distanced himself from his family.
We all know what Joe and Leonard Rowe did to Michael in the last days of his life (which reflect what Joe did to Michael his entire life.---> Here's the first reason Have heard one of Michael's bodyguard (Mike La Perruque) 1st of July interview? Have you have hear the part in which he says that Michael's brothers hounded endlessly him to do a reunion tour? Remember the part in which the bodyguard says Michael's brothers pressured him to do wht they wanted ALL THE TIME?---> reason 2 Dang... every conversation leads to the "horrible" Jackson Family- Please are you a secret family member out to destroy this family's name. These people are far from perfect like everyone else in the world. Maybe, if Michael would have reunioned with his family instead of surrounding himself with the leeches of doctors,and promoters he involved himself with he would still be alive. They killed him not the Jackson Family. So what! The brothers wanted him to tour with them. Those leeches keep Michael Jackson away from his family so they could CONTROL and ULTIMATELY KILL HIM!!!! "Like everyone else in the world" my ass. Leeches? Want to talk about leeches? No one leeched Michael more than his own father and brothers. Damnit! Joe was the one who wanted (the most) the reunion tour to happen. Guess why? C'mon...I challenge you to guess why Joe wanted, desperately, the reunion tour to happen. Promoters? The only concert promoters that harmed Michael were the ones hired by Joe: Don King and Leonard Rowe. The same guys who made Michael's life a living hell. Go do some research about what Leonard Rowe and Joe Jackson did to Michael in the last days of his life. The only one who desperately wanted control was Joe Jackson. [Edited 12/25/09 14:30pm] | |
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