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Printablewhatsgoingon said: MOL said: What you didn't understand yet is that it is not right to compare MJ's dysfunctionality to the brothers'. Comparing being bizarre to being a sex-addict-deadbeat-dad-women-beater-leech-amoral monster is unfair, don't you think? That's exactly what you are doing. Michael had issues: he had no idea of what a normal life is about, while the brothers have no idea of how to be a decent person. It's very different in EVERY aspect. Being an evil guy contributes much more to a dysfunctional family than being bizarre. How, exactly, did the brothers keep Michael down-to-earth if they weren't decent enough to pay child support? How exactly did the brothers keep Michael down-to-earth, when they had many girlfriends at the same time? How exactly did the brothers keep him down-to-earth when they were constantly fighting? How exactly did his family keep him down-to-earth when his father constantly cheated on his mother and tried to enslave him? How exactly did they keep him down-to-earth if his mother would pressure him all the time? How exactly did they keep him down-to-earth if he had to do what they wanted? Debarge called Hayvenhurst the "house of fear" and he was, probably, right. Next thing you're going to say is that Joe is responsible for Thriller being the best selling album of all time, right? These guys can't even defend their dead relative and you tell me they kept him down-to-earth. You are defending the undefendable. I don't doubt they had feelings for Michael. I'm just questioning some of their motives. Ohhh an BTW, I don't believe for a second that Joseph felt something for Michael. Whether what he did and still does is unforgivable or not is up to each one of us. I, for one, think it is, in fact, unforgivable but each one has different values and morals. [Edited 12/6/09 9:13am] Being down to earth, meaning not being away with the fairies, which was basically what MJ was about in the last 15 to 20 years of his life. Mj became more bizarre the more he distance himself from his family. There is definetly a correlation between the two, imo. The fact of the matter is MJ spent very little time making music once he completely went solo. He made just 4 albums in 20 years has a solo artist, because he was too busy being all bizarre and mystery. I understand why he distance himself from his family, especially from his father but overall it had an adverse effect on him in the long run. [Edited 12/6/09 11:08am] that's true. michael loved being over the top and every album had to be an event, that's why he waited so many years in between..to keep people wanting more and he was a perfectionist who wanted to give his best and not something half assed.he was good at garnering attention which he wanted most of the time and he loved mystery.he liked being a mystery to people. he may have gone over the top often but he sure knew how to work a crowd and to sell his stuff. the thing is that sometimes it backfired and the less he was performing the more controversy took over and people starting thinking he was so weird and stuff because they believed everything written about him because most people think nothing was too strange for michael jackson. i wish he was closer to his family because he seemed to isolate himself and surround himself with so many greedy leeches who didn't care about him. his family may have used him from time to time but at least they cared about him. "we make our heroes in America only to destroy them" | |
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mimi07 said: whatsgoingon said: Being down to earth, meaning not being away with the fairies, which was basically what MJ was about in the last 15 to 20 years of his life. Mj became more bizarre the more he distance himself from his family. There is definetly a correlation between the two, imo. The fact of the matter is MJ spent very little time making music once he completely went solo. He made just 4 albums in 20 years has a solo artist, because he was too busy being all bizarre and mystery. I understand why he distance himself from his family, especially from his father but overall it had an adverse effect on him in the long run. [Edited 12/6/09 11:08am] that's true. michael loved being over the top and every album had to be an event, that's why he waited so many years in between..to keep people wanting more and he was a perfectionist who wanted to give his best and not something half assed.he was good at garnering attention which he wanted most of the time and he loved mystery.he liked being a mystery to people. he may have gone over the top often but he sure knew how to work a crowd and to sell his stuff. the thing is that sometimes it backfired and the less he was performing the more controversy took over and people starting thinking he was so weird and stuff because they believed everything written about him because most people think nothing was too strange for michael jackson. i wish he was closer to his family because he seemed to isolate himself and surround himself with so many greedy leeches who didn't care about him. his family may have used him from time to time but at least they cared about him. You just described the family. I don't doubt most had feelings for him, but their motives were a bit self-serving. [Edited 12/6/09 11:43am] | |
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Girl4both said: bboy87 said: This is her in '73 when she and Jackie first got married 
she passed away in 1997  I know that Jermaine has been married three times? and I know that Marlon is married, but I wonder why Jackie and Tito never got remarried? I know they divorced their wives (well their wives divorced them) and their wives are both deceased. i'm 99% certain that enid jackson hooked up with jack gordon...yes, that jack gordon...to have him manage her daughter. i remember that she, jack and the daughter were on the howard stern show. maybe i'll do a google search to see if i can verify my memory, or perhaps another poster may remember, but i remember when she died thinking, 'see, god don't love ugly.' | |
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MOL said: mimi07 said: that's true. michael loved being over the top and every album had to be an event, that's why he waited so many years in between..to keep people wanting more and he was a perfectionist who wanted to give his best and not something half assed.he was good at garnering attention which he wanted most of the time and he loved mystery.he liked being a mystery to people. he may have gone over the top often but he sure knew how to work a crowd and to sell his stuff. the thing is that sometimes it backfired and the less he was performing the more controversy took over and people starting thinking he was so weird and stuff because they believed everything written about him because most people think nothing was too strange for michael jackson. i wish he was closer to his family because he seemed to isolate himself and surround himself with so many greedy leeches who didn't care about him. his family may have used him from time to time but at least they cared about him. You just described the family. I don't doubt most had feelings for him, but their motives were a bit self-serving. [Edited 12/6/09 11:43am] no i didn't "we make our heroes in America only to destroy them" | |
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mimi07 said: getting back to the topic of music
does anyone own this album or have some songs? i ask beacuse i LOVE this album and i don't understand why it is so underrated, there is not one song i dislike and yet it didn't get good reviews and wasn't as big as it should have been. it wasn't big by today's standards, sure. there wasn't wall to wall promotion like there is now. you had a couple of daytime talk shows you could get booked on like merv griffin, mike douglas, or johnny carson at night. plus, you have to understand that by the mid-70s, the j5 were no longer cute little black boys that had been introduced to the world six years earlier. all 'boy bands' struggle once their 'cuteness' wears off and preteen girls move on. but black boy bands have it even tougher. the jacksons were now turning into black men, and that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish when it comes to marketing. i would bet that most black people like myself gave this album big ups (i was a girl when it was released), and remember hearing most of the cuts on the radio. it was probably only marketed to black radio and consumers, for the most part, which is why it wasn't bigger and it didn't have crossover appeal. mj talked about how hard it was even in the wake of off the wall to get a reporter from a (white) mainstream magazine to come interview him, and we know that album was monster. it wasn't until thriller that middle america 're-discovered' mj and by extension the rest of the jacksons. very few music critics liked the j5; remember, the unwritten rule of critics is you must hate boy bands or teen pop. they especially hate when you succeed when they have deemed you over and done with. if they were being honest and really listening to cuts like show you the way to go, good times, or even mj's blues away, which telegraphed his deftness as a songwriter, they wouldn't be writing bad reviews about this album. i have a vinyl of this album which i played over and over a few months ago when mj died*. (*i still have trouble writing those words.) | |
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kibbles said: Girl4both said: I know that Jermaine has been married three times? and I know that Marlon is married, but I wonder why Jackie and Tito never got remarried? I know they divorced their wives (well their wives divorced them) and their wives are both deceased. i'm 99% certain that enid jackson hooked up with jack gordon...yes, that jack gordon...to have him manage her daughter. i remember that she, jack and the daughter were on the howard stern show. maybe i'll do a google search to see if i can verify my memory, or perhaps another poster may remember, but i remember when she died thinking, 'see, god don't love ugly.' on edit: yes, i remembered correctly: **** http://pub1.bravenet.com/...tid=107#q1 I heard Brandi Jackson was a guest on the Howard Stern show, is that true? Yes. Brandi was a guest on the Howard Stern show, together with Latoya's ex-husband Jack Gordon and her late mother/manager Enid Spann, on September 9th 1997. They mostly talked about the fact that Brandi was going to sign a modeling contract in the near future. http://www.marksfriggin.c...sep-97.htm Jack Gordon Comes In With Brandi Jackson. 9/9/97. 7:40am Jack Gordon is the ex-husband of Latoya Jackson. Today he showed up at the studio with Brandi Jackson, Latoya's niece who is only 15 years old. Brandi's father is Jackie Jackson, Michael's brother. Brandi's mother Enid is her manager so she showed up with Jack. Howard thought that Jack might be the manager but it turns out that he's just like a public relations kind of guy. They didn't really have much to say other than the fact that Brandi is going to sign a modeling contract sometime soon. Should we care? I sure as hell don't. Since Jack and Latoya divorced a while back Howard thought that the Jackson family wouldn't want anything to do with him. According to Enid, the Jacksons still like Jack... go figure. **** given who and what that man was, even if i do believe that latoya went along with him more than she lets on now, why on earth would enid want her daughter anywhere near that man. yes, this family is definitely dysfunctional. [Edited 12/6/09 13:23pm] | |
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another look at jackie's wife. i've never seen this posted so i apologize if it was in another thread wayback. but it sent chills down my spine since i recall seeing this woman on diane dimond's 'hard copy' with brandi, one of the few times they call themselves being 'fair' to him. she had nothing but praise for him. my heart bleeds for mj and what he had to endure right under his own roof. what a cold hearted bitch; why go after mj when jackie was the one who did you wrong?! .
http://www.contracostatim...jq-_P6mOGQ My moment with Michael Jackson Ex-wife of superstar's brother brought me into family's world Almost two decades ago, an actress friend and I posed as a grieving couple at a grave site at Forest Lawn Memorial-Park in Glendale. I was being wooed to write an unauthorized biography about the world's most mysterious man since Howard Hughes, and I had insisted on at least getting a glimpse of the subject, if even from a distance, before I signed on. As it turned out, I would have a face-to-face encounter with Michael Jackson himself, if only for a fleeting moment. He was among the Jacksons getting out of a nearby limousine to attend his grandmother's burial, and his path to her grave site took him past us. When he was inches away, he slowed almost to a stop for a split-second and looked at us. My friend, a striking blonde from a popular TV show, could have that affect on people, which is why I asked her to join me. Michael was dressed all in black, sporting a black fedora, and his trademark black curls dangled over his forehead. He wasn't wearing the surgical mask that had become a part of his wardrobe, and for an instant our faces couldn't have been more than a foot apart. The man looked like an alien. The skin was pasty. His eyes were lifeless. The famous nose job and jaw implant looked ruddy and rubbery. The only sign of color was the pinkish gloss on his lips. I half wondered if he wasn't wearing a mask. He walked on to his grandmother's grave, and I momentarily made eye contact with the person in their mourning party who had tipped me off that Michael would be there - the person who wanted me to co-author the biography of Michael with her. Enid Jackson, the estranged wife of Michael's older brother Jackie, nodded to me, and I acknowledged her. This was how I had finally agreed to write "Michael: From Motown to the Moon," a 100,000-word book that was soon commissioned by William Morrow & Co. for a six-figure advance. The book was never published for legal reasons and Enid died in 1997. But the book deal set off an 18-month period of lengthy tape-recorded interview sessions with Enid and an array of Jackson family friends, disgruntled employees, former employees, lovers and ex-lovers. As they say, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and Enid was that woman. She had met Jackie in 1969 shortly after the Jacksons relocated to California from Gary, Ind. Enid Spann was then a student at Beverly Hills High School when she all but began living with Jackie at the home on Hayvenhurst Avenue in Encino, where she was practically another of Michael's older sisters. Enid and Jackie married in 1974, a union that would fall apart in the late 1980s with Enid accusing Jackie of marital infidelity. "I guess I could put up with that," she said to me in one interview. "But when it came to cutting me out of the money, that's where I get nasty." By the time she approached me about the book in 1989, Enid already had a William Morris literary agent and a lot of potential interviews lined up. I signed on board and into the bizarre world of celebrity biography. I had actually met Michael in the early stages of his superstardom. In 1983, I had attended the taping of the Motown 25th anniversary show, and in the early hours of the following morning, after an exhausting marathon taping, Michael and his brothers wandered to an after-hours private party across the street from the Pasadena Civic Auditorium. Michael had stolen the show, debuting his Moonwalk dance in the middle of performing "Billie Jean" from the "Thriller" album. He was ecstatic, too, thanking people who encircled their area for their compliments in that falsetto voice that became so familiar. His nose was noticeably thinner than from the cover photo on his previous "Off the Wall" album, but I think none of us who were still there - from then-Los Angeles Mayor Tom Bradley to Playboy publisher Hugh Hefner - could have imagined what was to come. From the family's Encino compound, Enid sneaked out years of home movies, videos and photographs of the Jacksons that documented the transformation. The Jacksons at Disneyland after-hours, the family at get-togethers, Michael and his brothers horsing around at home. They were from the early 1970s, when Enid went to live with the Jacksons, to 1990 and showed the pop icon from pre-teens to adulthood in his early 30s. "It's as if Michael was black one day and white the next," Enid said. "He had the face that God gave him and traded that in for one that his doctors created." That was why I wanted to see Michael at that stage when I told Enid I couldn't work on the book without seeing the metamorphosis for myself. "I guess when you see him every day or almost every day, it doesn't seem like he's changed that much," Enid said. "He's Michael." Still, what Enid provided was just too good to be true. Handwritten notes from Princess Di to Michael on her personal stationery. Thank-you cards from Elizabeth Taylor. Private photographs of Michael with directors Steven Spielberg and John Landis and of Michael with one of his plastic surgeons, Dr. Steven Hoefflin. Then there were the few real jewels. Sources like Chico Ross, Diana Ross' baby brother who had befriended the young Michael in 1969 when the Jacksons moved to California. Michael stayed at Diana's house for months, and he became the little brother Chico hadn't had. Chico later spent much of his time at the Jackson's new house in Encino where he occasionally jammed with the family. He later played drums briefly with Kerry Gordy, the son of Motown founder Berry Gordy, in a band called Kryptonite, and dabbled as a Hollywood club promoter. Chico's recollections of Michael in his young and middle teenage years were priceless, and his anecdotes painted a youngster who, for a short period of life, enjoyed the closest he would ever experience to a normal existence. "Michael never had a real childhood," Chico said in an interview. "It was stolen from him so that there could be the Jackson 5 and later the Jacksons." About this time, lawyers for the Gordys, the Rosses and the Jacksons had started a legal war against other recent biographies about Diana and Michael. One publisher was forced into a big settlement. Another biographer went bankrupt. William Morrow & Co., my publisher, simply decided it wanted no part of it, ate the loss on my advance and never published "Michael: From Motown to the Moon." In December of 1997, I got a telephone call from Enid, wishing me a happy birthday and apologizing for using me to get back in the good graces of the Jacksons. "I've got even more and better material for another book that I want to give you to make it all up," she said to me. "It's a book and a film deal. "I'll treat you to lunch at The Ivy after the holidays and tell you all about it." On Dec. 20, 1997, Enid died of a brain aneurysm in a movie theater bathroom. | |
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kibbles said: another look at jackie's wife. i've never seen this posted so i apologize if it was in another thread wayback. but it sent chills down my spine since i recall seeing this woman on diane dimond's 'hard copy' with brandi, one of the few times they call themselves being 'fair' to him. she had nothing but praise for him. my heart bleeds for mj and what he had to endure right under his own roof. what a cold hearted bitch; why go after mj when jackie was the one who did you wrong?!
.
http://www.contracostatim...jq-_P6mOGQ My moment with Michael Jackson Ex-wife of superstar's brother brought me into family's world Almost two decades ago, an actress friend and I posed as a grieving couple at a grave site at Forest Lawn Memorial-Park in Glendale. I was being wooed to write an unauthorized biography about the world's most mysterious man since Howard Hughes, and I had insisted on at least getting a glimpse of the subject, if even from a distance, before I signed on. As it turned out, I would have a face-to-face encounter with Michael Jackson himself, if only for a fleeting moment. He was among the Jacksons getting out of a nearby limousine to attend his grandmother's burial, and his path to her grave site took him past us. When he was inches away, he slowed almost to a stop for a split-second and looked at us. My friend, a striking blonde from a popular TV show, could have that affect on people, which is why I asked her to join me. Michael was dressed all in black, sporting a black fedora, and his trademark black curls dangled over his forehead. He wasn't wearing the surgical mask that had become a part of his wardrobe, and for an instant our faces couldn't have been more than a foot apart. The man looked like an alien. The skin was pasty. His eyes were lifeless. The famous nose job and jaw implant looked ruddy and rubbery. The only sign of color was the pinkish gloss on his lips. I half wondered if he wasn't wearing a mask. He walked on to his grandmother's grave, and I momentarily made eye contact with the person in their mourning party who had tipped me off that Michael would be there - the person who wanted me to co-author the biography of Michael with her. Enid Jackson, the estranged wife of Michael's older brother Jackie, nodded to me, and I acknowledged her. This was how I had finally agreed to write "Michael: From Motown to the Moon," a 100,000-word book that was soon commissioned by William Morrow & Co. for a six-figure advance. The book was never published for legal reasons and Enid died in 1997. But the book deal set off an 18-month period of lengthy tape-recorded interview sessions with Enid and an array of Jackson family friends, disgruntled employees, former employees, lovers and ex-lovers. As they say, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and Enid was that woman. She had met Jackie in 1969 shortly after the Jacksons relocated to California from Gary, Ind. Enid Spann was then a student at Beverly Hills High School when she all but began living with Jackie at the home on Hayvenhurst Avenue in Encino, where she was practically another of Michael's older sisters. Enid and Jackie married in 1974, a union that would fall apart in the late 1980s with Enid accusing Jackie of marital infidelity. "I guess I could put up with that," she said to me in one interview. "But when it came to cutting me out of the money, that's where I get nasty." By the time she approached me about the book in 1989, Enid already had a William Morris literary agent and a lot of potential interviews lined up. I signed on board and into the bizarre world of celebrity biography. I had actually met Michael in the early stages of his superstardom. In 1983, I had attended the taping of the Motown 25th anniversary show, and in the early hours of the following morning, after an exhausting marathon taping, Michael and his brothers wandered to an after-hours private party across the street from the Pasadena Civic Auditorium. Michael had stolen the show, debuting his Moonwalk dance in the middle of performing "Billie Jean" from the "Thriller" album. He was ecstatic, too, thanking people who encircled their area for their compliments in that falsetto voice that became so familiar. His nose was noticeably thinner than from the cover photo on his previous "Off the Wall" album, but I think none of us who were still there - from then-Los Angeles Mayor Tom Bradley to Playboy publisher Hugh Hefner - could have imagined what was to come. From the family's Encino compound, Enid sneaked out years of home movies, videos and photographs of the Jacksons that documented the transformation. The Jacksons at Disneyland after-hours, the family at get-togethers, Michael and his brothers horsing around at home. They were from the early 1970s, when Enid went to live with the Jacksons, to 1990 and showed the pop icon from pre-teens to adulthood in his early 30s. "It's as if Michael was black one day and white the next," Enid said. "He had the face that God gave him and traded that in for one that his doctors created." That was why I wanted to see Michael at that stage when I told Enid I couldn't work on the book without seeing the metamorphosis for myself. "I guess when you see him every day or almost every day, it doesn't seem like he's changed that much," Enid said. "He's Michael." Still, what Enid provided was just too good to be true. Handwritten notes from Princess Di to Michael on her personal stationery. Thank-you cards from Elizabeth Taylor. Private photographs of Michael with directors Steven Spielberg and John Landis and of Michael with one of his plastic surgeons, Dr. Steven Hoefflin. Then there were the few real jewels. Sources like Chico Ross, Diana Ross' baby brother who had befriended the young Michael in 1969 when the Jacksons moved to California. Michael stayed at Diana's house for months, and he became the little brother Chico hadn't had. Chico later spent much of his time at the Jackson's new house in Encino where he occasionally jammed with the family. He later played drums briefly with Kerry Gordy, the son of Motown founder Berry Gordy, in a band called Kryptonite, and dabbled as a Hollywood club promoter. Chico's recollections of Michael in his young and middle teenage years were priceless, and his anecdotes painted a youngster who, for a short period of life, enjoyed the closest he would ever experience to a normal existence. "Michael never had a real childhood," Chico said in an interview. "It was stolen from him so that there could be the Jackson 5 and later the Jacksons." About this time, lawyers for the Gordys, the Rosses and the Jacksons had started a legal war against other recent biographies about Diana and Michael. One publisher was forced into a big settlement. Another biographer went bankrupt. William Morrow & Co., my publisher, simply decided it wanted no part of it, ate the loss on my advance and never published "Michael: From Motown to the Moon." In December of 1997, I got a telephone call from Enid, wishing me a happy birthday and apologizing for using me to get back in the good graces of the Jacksons. "I've got even more and better material for another book that I want to give you to make it all up," she said to me. "It's a book and a film deal. "I'll treat you to lunch at The Ivy after the holidays and tell you all about it." On Dec. 20, 1997, Enid died of a brain aneurysm in a movie theater bathroom. Interesting. | |
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Why was she so mad at Michael? For giving her millions over the years? Disgusting. Enid's death reflected her life. Sad but true. | |
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gross   I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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MOL said: Why was she so mad at Michael? For giving her millions over the years? Disgusting. Enid's death reflected her life. Sad but true.
that's what i'm sayin'. the sad thing is mj did not owe her one em-effin' penny and yet she invites these vipers to his own grandmother's funeral so they can gawk at him, pass judgment on him, and conspire with her to publish *his* - not her cheatin' husband's but mj's - STOLEN property so she can get paid under the table. the guy was going to write the book, and hide behind his 'sources', so wm. morrow and this author had to have had some deal to pay her under the table to get all this inside info on mj, right? he doesn't state that in the article, but i'm thinking that had to be it, because he does make clear she was in it for the money. she came to live at this house when mj was a little boy, and she had not one drop of compassion for him and everything he was going through. i know some posters have given you a bad rap, mol, but the more i read about his family, the more i understand mj and understand why you've expressed a lot of the opinions you have. 
on edit: at the beginning of the article it does say that she was going to co-author the book with him, so i am corrected. she was going to get paid as a co-author. still, i wonder no more about why mj moved his ass out of havenhurst and over 100 miles away to sta. barbara. makes me think of the breakdown from this time around...'even in my home i ain't safe as i should be, things always missing, maybe it could be my friends, but they ain't friends if they're robbing me...' [Edited 12/6/09 15:14pm] | |
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mimi07 said: getting back to the topic of music
does anyone own this album or have some songs? i ask beacuse i LOVE this album and i don't understand why it is so underrated, there is not one song i dislike and yet it didn't get good reviews and wasn't as big as it should have been. I was a kid when this album was released but I remember that it was a huge album in the R&B world.The two singles "Enjoy Yourself" and "Show You The Way To Go" were all over the R&B stations.It's one of my favorite Jacksons albums.Does anyone know if it has ever been remastered? | |
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kibbles said: MOL said: Why was she so mad at Michael? For giving her millions over the years? Disgusting. Enid's death reflected her life. Sad but true.
that's what i'm sayin'. the sad thing is mj did not owe her one em-effin' penny and yet she invites these vipers to his own grandmother's funeral so they can gawk at him, pass judgment on him, and conspire with her to publish *his* - not her cheatin' husband's but mj's - STOLEN property so she can get paid under the table. the guy was going to write the book, and hide behind his 'sources', so wm. morrow and this author had to have had some deal to pay her under the table to get all this inside info on mj, right? he doesn't state that in the article, but i'm thinking that had to be it, because he does make clear she was in it for the money. she came to live at this house when mj was a little boy, and she had not one drop of compassion for him and everything he was going through. i know some posters have given you a bad rap, mol, but the more i read about his family, the more i understand mj and understand why you've expressed a lot of the opinions you have.
on edit: at the beginning of the article it does say that she was going to co-author the book with him, so i am corrected. she was going to get paid as a co-author. still, i wonder no more about why mj moved his ass out of havenhurst and over 100 miles away to sta. barbara. makes me think of the breakdown from this time around...'even in my home i ain't safe as i should be, things always missing, maybe it could be my friends, but they ain't friends if they're robbing me...' [Edited 12/6/09 15:14pm] There are good people and evil people. Michael was her meal-ticket and she had known him since he was a boy. Yet, she backstabbed him with no mercy...for money! Unfortunately, Michael had to deal with this reality since the day he turned 5 years old. I doubt the man ever found happiness but, hey (!), maybe there is a paradise for good people after death! 
It's not that hard to understand why did Michael isolate himself from his family, is it? Some posters give me a bad rap because they refuse (just like I used to so I don't blame them) to see the facts. Most of Michael's family members wanted to enslave him, leech off his money and fame. It's hard to realize that the family of our music idol is not as perfect as we thought or would like to think. It's hard to realize that most of Michael's family members are people without a drop of decency/dignity/morals. Most of the posters who criticize me are in denial; they don't want to face the truth so I know that, the ones who are now criticizing me, will understand me within time. Michael's family members robbed him more than any other person in the world. Michael's family members abused him more than any other person in the world. Michael's family members made his life a living hell. Michael's family members were his biggest enemies. When even your mother sees you as an object/cash-cow and wants to delay your career in whom are you going to trust? How will you be happy? Michael had a tragic life and the family is the reason why, despite the fact that most posters here refuse to acknowledge the family's greedyness, limitless obsession with the man's money and fame and unhealthy jealously and self-serving ambitions. Just like Michael refused to see his father as a monstruous abuser. It's called denial. [Edited 12/6/09 16:35pm] | |
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MOL said: kibbles said: that's what i'm sayin'. the sad thing is mj did not owe her one em-effin' penny and yet she invites these vipers to his own grandmother's funeral so they can gawk at him, pass judgment on him, and conspire with her to publish *his* - not her cheatin' husband's but mj's - STOLEN property so she can get paid under the table. the guy was going to write the book, and hide behind his 'sources', so wm. morrow and this author had to have had some deal to pay her under the table to get all this inside info on mj, right? he doesn't state that in the article, but i'm thinking that had to be it, because he does make clear she was in it for the money. she came to live at this house when mj was a little boy, and she had not one drop of compassion for him and everything he was going through. i know some posters have given you a bad rap, mol, but the more i read about his family, the more i understand mj and understand why you've expressed a lot of the opinions you have.
on edit: at the beginning of the article it does say that she was going to co-author the book with him, so i am corrected. she was going to get paid as a co-author. still, i wonder no more about why mj moved his ass out of havenhurst and over 100 miles away to sta. barbara. makes me think of the breakdown from this time around...'even in my home i ain't safe as i should be, things always missing, maybe it could be my friends, but they ain't friends if they're robbing me...' [Edited 12/6/09 15:14pm] There are good people and evil people. Michael was her meal-ticket and she had known him since he was a boy. Yet, she backstabbed him with no mercy...for money! Unfortunately, Michael had to deal with this reality since the day he turned 5 years old. I doubt the man ever found happiness but, hey (!), maybe there is a paradise for good people after death!
It's not that hard to understand why did Michael isolate himself from his family, is it? Some posters give me a bad rap because they refuse (just like I used to so I don't blame them) to see the facts. Most of Michael's family members wanted to enslave him, leech off his money and fame. It's hard to realize that the family of our music idol is not as perfect as we thought or would like to think. It's hard to realize that most of Michael's family members are people without a drop of decency/dignity/morals. Most of the posters who criticize me are in denial; they don't want to face the truth so I know that, the ones who are now criticizing me, will understand me within time. Michael's family members robbed him more than any other person in the world. Michael's family members abused him more than any other person in the world. Michael's family members made his life a living hell. Michael's family members were his biggest enemies. When even your mother sees you as an object/cash-cow and wants to delay your career in whom are you going to trust? How will you be happy? Michael had a tragic life and the family is the reason why, despite the fact that most posters here refuse to acknowledge the family's greedyness, limitless obsession with the man's money and fame and unhealthy jealously and self-serving ambitions. Just like Michael refused to see his father as a monstruous abuser. It's called denial. [Edited 12/6/09 16:35pm] even after she was supposedly back in the family's good graces (meaning i guess the family through mj had paid her off what she was asking for?), she was still conspiring with this guy to give him even more and 'better' stuff. it had to be about mj - who else would any publishing house be interested in particularly if this was 1997 - post-chandlers and post-lmp? what a sick twisted bitch, man. sick, sick, sick.  | |
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Arnotts said: MOL said: The funny thing is that everybody claims I am overzealous because I refuse to respect people like Joe, Jermaine, Tito and Randy who happen to don't have decency to even cater for their own children.
You're overzealous because you dont actually know these people. I believe Margaret and Latoya myself as well but I cant get too angry or into an argument over it because I will never know for sure. I could understand if you were Margaret herself or someone else who has been directly targeted by them, but your just going on second hand information. Your hatred for them is just a bit too full on. And like I said alot of the information about them makes my skin crawl, but, again, I really don't know them. Not unless I have been spurned by them myself would I argue to the death of it I don't know what to believe about LaToya sometimes because her stories are too inconsistent. For instance, she stated that Micheal is a pedophile and then she changes her story because she claimed her husband put her under the influence to lie. My personal opinion about MJ is yeah, he led a bizarre life, but I do not believe he's a pedophile. | |
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SoulAlive said: mimi07 said: getting back to the topic of music
does anyone own this album or have some songs? i ask beacuse i LOVE this album and i don't understand why it is so underrated, there is not one song i dislike and yet it didn't get good reviews and wasn't as big as it should have been. I was a kid when this album was released but I remember that it was a huge album in the R&B world.The two singles "Enjoy Yourself" and "Show You The Way To Go" were all over the R&B stations.It's one of my favorite Jacksons albums.Does anyone know if it has ever been remastered? Japanese only paper sleeve pressing features all new 2009 remastering of this album. 'The Jacksons' album. I think it can be purchased via Amazon.com. | |
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The problem with the Jackson family is the problem with many dysfunctional families - the parents.
Joe began dipping out on his vows way before he even formed the Jacksons. Then he abused his wife and his children. Instead of leaving, Katherine turned to being a Jehovah's Witness (which I think is false doctrine) comforted by the rigid structure it provided for her life. The children were raised with two conflicting value systems. One was the conservative religious life that Katherine led them into - even praying before their band practices. The other was the riotous values of Joseph who led his children into nightclubs, stripclubs and made his adultery visible to his children. The two children who survived both married young - Rebbie, also structured by JW teachings with her husband and Marlon, a devoted Christian with his wife. The rest of them, did the best they could with what they knew at the time. Why is it strange that some of the brothers are accused (convicted in the case of Randy) of abusing their wives or girlfriends? They were raised in a household where a man "disciplined" his wife and children with violence routinely (almost daily). Most people who survived a dysfunctional family struggle with this simple template for success: Gain skills, choose a career, marry a spouse, have children, pursue your interests. To me, Marlon is the shining star. He married a woman, had kids, and remains married to her. He became a provider, husband and father. The other brothers all struggled (& as senior citizens, continue to struggle) with with this (including Michael's dysfunction with women). Still their personal lives do not take away from their talent. They are all very talented and skilled in music. I would definitely attend a concert with the Jacksons. I've never attended a Jacksons concert but all the footage shows they ALL know how to put on a good show. I love the music first. | |
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vizionheiry said: The problem with the Jackson family is the problem with many dysfunctional families - the parents.
Joe began dipping out on his vows way before he even formed the Jacksons. Then he abused his wife and his children. Instead of leaving, Katherine turned to being a Jehovah's Witness (which I think is false doctrine) comforted by the rigid structure it provided for her life. The children were raised with two conflicting value systems. One was the conservative religious life that Katherine led them into - even praying before their band practices. The other was the riotous values of Joseph who led his children into nightclubs, stripclubs and made his adultery visible to his children. The two children who survived both married young - Rebbie, also structured by JW teachings with her husband and Marlon, a devoted Christian with his wife. The rest of them, did the best they could with what they knew at the time. Why is it strange that some of the brothers are accused (convicted in the case of Randy) of abusing their wives or girlfriends? They were raised in a household where a man "disciplined" his wife and children with violence routinely (almost daily). Most people who survived a dysfunctional family struggle with this simple template for success: Gain skills, choose a career, marry a spouse, have children, pursue your interests. To me, Marlon is the shining star. He married a woman, had kids, and remains married to her. He became a provider, husband and father. The other brothers all struggled (& as senior citizens, continue to struggle) with with this (including Michael's dysfunction with women). Still their personal lives do not take away from their talent. They are all very talented and skilled in music. I would definitely attend a concert with the Jacksons. I've never attended a Jacksons concert but all the footage shows they ALL know how to put on a good show. I love the music first. none of the brothers or sisters are senior citizens...
but i agree with the rest "we make our heroes in America only to destroy them" | |
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55 = senior citizen by AARP standards. Ok just Rebbie, Jackie, Tito and Jermaine. | |
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vizionheiry said: 55 = senior citizen by AARP standards. Ok just Rebbie, Jackie, Tito and Jermaine.
Senior Citizen's gotta get their groove on too...lol 
And in the AARP world senior citizen starts @ 50, so techinally MJ was a senior citizen in the AARP world before he died...lol [Edited 12/6/09 18:38pm] I'm in the mood for love...simply because your near me. | |
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kibbles said: Girl4both said: I know that Jermaine has been married three times? and I know that Marlon is married, but I wonder why Jackie and Tito never got remarried? I know they divorced their wives (well their wives divorced them) and their wives are both deceased. i'm 99% certain that enid jackson hooked up with jack gordon...yes, that jack gordon...to have him manage her daughter. i remember that she, jack and the daughter were on the howard stern show. maybe i'll do a google search to see if i can verify my memory, or perhaps another poster may remember, but i remember when she died thinking, 'see, god don't love ugly.' Say whaaaaat?? I thought Jack Gordon was Latoya's man?? I'm in the mood for love...simply because your near me. | |
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SoulAlive said: mimi07 said: getting back to the topic of music
does anyone own this album or have some songs? i ask beacuse i LOVE this album and i don't understand why it is so underrated, there is not one song i dislike and yet it didn't get good reviews and wasn't as big as it should have been. I was a kid when this album was released but I remember that it was a huge album in the R&B world.The two singles "Enjoy Yourself" and "Show You The Way To Go" were all over the R&B stations.It's one of my favorite Jacksons albums.Does anyone know if it has ever been remastered? I found all the jacksons albums at best buy recently | |
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vizionheiry said: The problem with the Jackson family is the problem with many dysfunctional families - the parents.
Joe began dipping out on his vows way before he even formed the Jacksons. Then he abused his wife and his children. Instead of leaving, Katherine turned to being a Jehovah's Witness (which I think is false doctrine) comforted by the rigid structure it provided for her life. The children were raised with two conflicting value systems. One was the conservative religious life that Katherine led them into - even praying before their band practices. The other was the riotous values of Joseph who led his children into nightclubs, stripclubs and made his adultery visible to his children. The two children who survived both married young - Rebbie, also structured by JW teachings with her husband and Marlon, a devoted Christian with his wife. The rest of them, did the best they could with what they knew at the time. Why is it strange that some of the brothers are accused (convicted in the case of Randy) of abusing their wives or girlfriends? They were raised in a household where a man "disciplined" his wife and children with violence routinely (almost daily). Most people who survived a dysfunctional family struggle with this simple template for success: Gain skills, choose a career, marry a spouse, have children, pursue your interests. To me, Marlon is the shining star. He married a woman, had kids, and remains married to her. He became a provider, husband and father. The other brothers all struggled (& as senior citizens, continue to struggle) with with this (including Michael's dysfunction with women). Still their personal lives do not take away from their talent. They are all very talented and skilled in music. I would definitely attend a concert with the Jacksons. I've never attended a Jacksons concert but all the footage shows they ALL know how to put on a good show. I love the music first. I was raise as a jehovah witness and had a great childhood the jacksons had more problems in their house hold plus their lives are shown in public I'll just leave it at that | |
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vizionheiry said: 55 = senior citizen by AARP standards. Ok just Rebbie, Jackie, Tito and Jermaine.
AARP is life insurance for 50 and up...i don't think they say that's when they become senior citizens. senior citizens are about 65+ [Edited 12/6/09 18:46pm] "we make our heroes in America only to destroy them" | |
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babybugz said: SoulAlive said: I was a kid when this album was released but I remember that it was a huge album in the R&B world.The two singles "Enjoy Yourself" and "Show You The Way To Go" were all over the R&B stations.It's one of my favorite Jacksons albums.Does anyone know if it has ever been remastered? I found all the jacksons albums at best buy recently did u see 'goin places' there? "we make our heroes in America only to destroy them" | |
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mimi07 said: vizionheiry said: 55 = senior citizen by AARP standards. Ok just Rebbie, Jackie, Tito and Jermaine.
AARP is life insurance for 50 and up...i don't think they say that's when they become senior citizens. senior citizens are about 65+ [Edited 12/6/09 18:46pm] They senior citizens to this generation  | |
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babybugz said: vizionheiry said: The problem with the Jackson family is the problem with many dysfunctional families - the parents.
Joe began dipping out on his vows way before he even formed the Jacksons. Then he abused his wife and his children. Instead of leaving, Katherine turned to being a Jehovah's Witness (which I think is false doctrine) comforted by the rigid structure it provided for her life. The children were raised with two conflicting value systems. One was the conservative religious life that Katherine led them into - even praying before their band practices. The other was the riotous values of Joseph who led his children into nightclubs, stripclubs and made his adultery visible to his children. The two children who survived both married young - Rebbie, also structured by JW teachings with her husband and Marlon, a devoted Christian with his wife. The rest of them, did the best they could with what they knew at the time. Why is it strange that some of the brothers are accused (convicted in the case of Randy) of abusing their wives or girlfriends? They were raised in a household where a man "disciplined" his wife and children with violence routinely (almost daily). Most people who survived a dysfunctional family struggle with this simple template for success: Gain skills, choose a career, marry a spouse, have children, pursue your interests. To me, Marlon is the shining star. He married a woman, had kids, and remains married to her. He became a provider, husband and father. The other brothers all struggled (& as senior citizens, continue to struggle) with with this (including Michael's dysfunction with women). Still their personal lives do not take away from their talent. They are all very talented and skilled in music. I would definitely attend a concert with the Jacksons. I've never attended a Jacksons concert but all the footage shows they ALL know how to put on a good show. I love the music first. I was raise as a jehovah witness and had a great childhood the jacksons had more problems in their house hold plus their lives are shown in public I'll just leave it at that Even though I consider JW to be false doctrine, I don't mean that to be the reason they fell apart. In fact, I think JW's teaching is what kept Katherine going all these years. But Katherine converted from a Methodist to JW alone (well Rebbie came along too) while Joe stayed a Baptist. It's not so much that they were in two different denominatiosn as much as it is that they, together, didn't practice their faith. You can't live by a completely set of standards that your husband isn't, and try to convey them to yr children. | |
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mimi07 said: babybugz said: I found all the jacksons albums at best buy recently did u see 'goin places' there? Yep I pick up the jackson's and going places I was surprise they had them , found Michael's album too (BEN) there [Edited 12/6/09 18:54pm] | |
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babybugz said: mimi07 said: AARP is life insurance for 50 and up...i don't think they say that's when they become senior citizens. senior citizens are about 65+ [Edited 12/6/09 18:46pm] They senior citizens to this generation I was wrong. 50 is right. That includes all of them except Randy & Janet. | |
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vizionheiry said: babybugz said: I was raise as a jehovah witness and had a great childhood the jacksons had more problems in their house hold plus their lives are shown in public I'll just leave it at that Even though I consider JW to be false doctrine, I don't mean that to be the reason they fell apart. In fact, I think JW's teaching is what kept Katherine going all these years. But Katherine converted from a Methodist to JW alone (well Rebbie came along too) while Joe stayed a Baptist. It's not so much that they were in two different denominatiosn as much as it is that they, together, didn't practice their faith. You can't live by a completely set of standards that your husband isn't, and try to convey them to yr children. I don't know what her problem was because I don't believe in staying with a man that does that that's katherine [Edited 12/6/09 18:53pm] | |
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