whatsgoingon said:

And what about this:

Michael wanted to do more solo albums. By 1980, after OTW, he wanted to record another solo album. He was young and fresh. He wasn't being attacked by the media yet and his superstar status didn't touch the sky. Critics didn't demand perfection from him, so he could concentrate 100% on his music. That's why he was prolific and made great music. He would've mantained an even healthier career without his brothers. To claim his brothers are the reason behind his success would be laughable if it wasn't so ridiculous. The family didn't even want him to go solo! Joe and Jermaine did everything they could to stop Thriller from being released. Remember Jermaine telling Michael that Thriller was a bunch of junk? Remember Joe's studio outbursts?

He lost his work ethic because he didn't have proper guidance at home. Because as he grew as an artist, his brothers' jealously and his father's greedyness increased, also grew. He lost his work ethic because he lost his love for the music businness. He was, by then, the biggest star the world had ever known and the media waited for him with forks and knifes. His family saw him as an object and Michael knew it. He was denial, but the fact is that he knew that even his own family didn't give two craps about him. Michael traumas hit him as was expected. He started seeing everyone's true colours and a battle inside his own head started.

Imagine the Jacksons didn't exist in Michae's life. He would have a loving family who wouldn't torture him all his life. He would eventually have a normal childhood and feel loved. His home life wouldn't be a circus (research about life with the Jacksons in Hayvenhurst) and he would be a down-to-earth person. There would be no scandals and, certainly, no early deaths. So, I totally disagree with you: Michael's career and personal life would be hailed as an example. But his family messed everything up. The man had traumas and was always sad. Did he traumatize himself? No. Is there a reason as to why he was always said? Yes. Imagine you had the Jacksons as a family. Imagine your family was your biggest enemy.



To sum up, Michael would have been BIGGER and BETTER without his crappy family.

There's a reason as to why he died first: because he was perceived as the family's object and he knew it. Put yourself in his place. In the MJ land truth is stranger than fiction and there's an undeniable fact: the guy's family certainly contribute to that stranger than fiction truth.


Michael to LMP: "I wonder what is it like to be loved by my family without them thinking in what they want me to do for them next."

Get why he died first? Because he was the object which was used by everybody without decency.

This is one of the reasons why I can't stand being around some Jackson fans, because they think they know every fuckin thing about Michael that they can talk bullshit about the family.

Listen, I sure that Michael had his beef with a few of the family members in the past, including his father, as well as creative differences which is totally understandable, but that's all I can say. To speculate that Michael wanted to be completely separated from his family and the family is dysfunctional, who the fuck are you and where do you get your info. If you say books from Jermaine's ex and Latoya, or Stacy Brown, I'm going to laugh in your face.

I don't know shit so I'm not going to get on here and act like I know the family and Michael so well that this and that happened while he was alive.

midiscover said:

This is her in '73 when she and Jackie first got married


she passed away in 1997

This is one of the reasons why I can't stand being around some Jackson fans, because they think they know every fuckin thing about Michael that they can talk bullshit about the family.

Listen, I sure that Michael had his beef with a few of the family members in the past, including his father, as well as creative differences which is totally understandable, but that's all I can say. To speculate that Michael wanted to be completely separated from his family and the family is dysfunctional, who the fuck are you and where do you get your info. If you say books from Jermaine's ex and Latoya, or Stacy Brown, I'm going to laugh in your face.

Michael wanted to perform ALONE during the Off The Wall and Thriller eras. CBS record's president stated, many times, that Michael told him that he wanted to separate himself from his brothers. He no longer wanted to be part of the Jacksons...he wanted to be Michael Jackson, according to him. Michael didn't want to do the Victory Tour, but mama Katie begged him while the other Jacksons made his life a living hell.

Michael was, in fact, a prisioner of his family. Psychological pressure made him a prisioner. In fact, it's not that hard to see that the man was manipulated by everyone.

Read Latoya's first half of the book (the one which was written by her) and some questions will be answered.

Michael wouldn't exist without the Jacksons? That's a coward argument. So, we should all dismiss Joe Jackson's abusive behaviour, because he and Katherine "made" Michael?

"when is the last time u talked to one of them?"- I'm superior. I refuse to talk to a broke-amoral-women-beater-deadbeat-dad-sex-addict-greedy person.

MJ didn't lose his love for music, but he certainly lost his love for the music business, don't you think?
Down-to-earth? Come on! This is getting ridiculous. Have you ever seen Michael's face? Did you see him spending millions at some supermarket? Did you see what he did to his nose? The man said he liked sleeping with children, damnit! I love Michael, but he was NOT down-to-earth. He was humble, gentle, loving, kind and naive...but down-to-earth...!!!?

The family is highly dysfunctional. Period.
They are not even fighting for justice. They totally ignore the coroner's report and Michael's constant pain (due to lupus) and insomnia. They choose to just say he was popping pills. Why? They never mention. When? They also don't mention. They claim they tried an intervention? When? They don't mention. They make it seem that Michael died a junkie and spent his days in a dark room popping pills. They have been helping Conrad Murray! They refuse to acknowledge the coroner's report and choose to call him an addict.
[Edited 12/5/09 11:18am]

The family are dysfunctional and MJ was part of the dysfunction. MJ was accused of abusing little boys, twice and his own lifestyle didn't help matters. So if you are going to go on about Jermain and Randy crimes you might as well as talk about MJ's alleged crimes, which were far worse. You can quote Latoya's book all you want but this was the same Latoya who accused her brother of being pedo!!
[Edited 12/6/09 4:09am]
[Edited 12/6/09 4:20am]

You can quote Latoya's book all you want but this was the same Latoya who accused her brother of being pedo!!
[Edited 12/6/09 4:09am]
[Edited 12/6/09 4:20am]

But he was not a paedophile, so that's not a reasonable argument! Read the evidence. While the court ruled that the brothers were deadbeat dads, Michael was acquited. In fact, all he did was help the families who later accused him, something the brothers would never do, since they didn't even bother helping their own kids. Michael got in trouble because he was too naive and good to too many people while his brothers were totally amoral. Did you even know that Michael was the only family member who would ask his brothers' ex-wives how were theirs kids doing?
The brothers would NEVER help a kid with cancer! That's what Michael did all the time and guess what? He was unfairly accused of raping one of those kids. Guess why he was accused? Had he been a I-don't-give-a-fuck-about-anyone-but-me-sex-addict and he would never have gotten in trouble. Had Michael been an evil guy like papa and his brothers and he would have never got in trouble. But he preferred to do charity work and help needy kids around the world...needy kids with greedy papas and got in trouble. To even claim Michael is as horrible or worse than his brothers is ridiculous. He got in trouble because he was way too good to too many people, something that the brothers never were, are or will be.

MOL said:

That's not the point, he may not have been a pedo, but his behaviour was deem questionable with young children, that's why so many people believed the accusations, something that overzealous fans like you can't bring yourself to admit. His brothers may not of gone out of their way to help a young cancer patient, but even if they did I doubt they would think it is ok to allow non- related children to sleep in their room let alone their bed.

As I said before Michael was also part of the dysfunction family. With the exception of probably Rebbie who had very little to do with showbiz they all seem to have their own big issues, some were just more prominent than others.

MOL said:

That's not the point, he may not have been a pedo, but his behaviour was deem questionable with young children, that's why so many people believed the accusations, something that overzealous fans like you can't bring yourself to admit. His brothers may not of gone out of their way to help a young cancer patient, but even if they did I doubt they would think it is ok to allow non- related children to sleep in their room let alone their bed.

As I said before Michael was also part of the dysfunction family. With the exception of probably Rebbie who had very little to do with showbiz they all seem to have their own big issues, some were just more prominent than others.

MOL said:

That's not the point, he may not have been a pedo, but his behaviour was deem questionable with young children, that's why so many people believed the accusations, something that overzealous fans like you can't bring yourself to admit. His brothers may not of gone out of their way to help a young cancer patient, but even if they did I doubt they would think it is ok to allow non- related children to sleep in their room let alone their bed.

As I said before Michael was also part of the dysfunction family. With the exception of probably Rebbie who had very little to do with showbiz they all seem to have their own big issues, some were just more prominent than others.

whatsgoingon said:

it's only questionable when people have sex or other crap on their mind...but i know what u mean.

what family doesn't have issues

The funny thing is that everybody claims I am overzealous because I refuse to respect people like Joe, Jermaine, Tito and Randy who happen to don't have decency to even cater for their own children.

whatsgoingon said:

I get the same vibe from Rebbie that I get from Katherine. Passive, over-religious, enabler type. But I'm definitley not blind to the fact the Michael added his own share to the family dysfunction, but I just think people tend to give passes to the more hidden, less controversial members of the family. Like people tend to believe Jermaine over Michael and Janet over Latoya (when I say that I mean people who dont know much about the family, the general public) because they come across as more 'sane'.

Arnotts said:

MOL seems to be blaming the whole of MJ problems on his family. As if to say everyone else in the family dysfunction made MJ dysfunctional. When each of the the brothers and sisters to a certain extent had their own issues, just in very different ways. Probably all their issues stemed from the same source.

But inspite of all these issues I truely believe when MJ was still close to his brothers professionally they kept him down to earth. It can't be a coincidence the more MJ moved away from his family the more bizarre his behaviour became.

getting back to the topic of music


does anyone own this album or have some songs?

i ask beacuse i LOVE this album and i don't understand why it is so underrated, there is not one song i dislike and yet it didn't get good reviews and wasn't as big as it should have been.

here are their upcoming appearences

'Larry King Live' December 7
'Jimmy Kimmel Live' December 8
'The Bonnie Hunt Show' December 10

mimi07 said:

Yup! I love this whole album. Aside from it including one of my all time fave Jackson songs--Show You the Way to Go--it has Blues Away! But overall I think it's great and I never skip a track. I don't recall how popular it was at the time but I think it's one of their better albums.

milking/making money off their departed brother. as usual.

whatsgoingon said:

What you didn't understand yet is that it is not right to compare MJ's dysfunctionality to the brothers'. Comparing being bizarre to being a sex-addict-deadbeat-dad-women-beater-leech-amoral monster is unfair, don't you think? That's exactly what you are doing.
Michael had issues: he had no idea of what a normal life is about, while the brothers have no idea of how to be a decent person. It's very different in EVERY aspect. Being an evil guy contributes much more to a dysfunctional family than being bizarre.
How, exactly, did the brothers keep Michael down-to-earth if they weren't decent enough to pay child support? How exactly did the brothers keep Michael down-to-earth, when they had many girlfriends at the same time? How exactly did the brothers keep him down-to-earth when they were constantly fighting? How exactly did his family keep him down-to-earth when his father constantly cheated on his mother and tried to enslave him? How exactly did they keep him down-to-earth if his mother would pressure him all the time? How exactly did they keep him down-to-earth if he had to do what they wanted? Debarge called Hayvenhurst the "house of fear" and he was, probably, right.


Next thing you're going to say is that Joe is responsible for Thriller being the best selling album of all time, right?

These guys can't even defend their dead relative and you tell me they kept him down-to-earth. You are defending the undefendable.

I don't doubt they had feelings for Michael. I'm just questioning some of their motives. Ohhh an BTW, I don't believe for a second that Joseph felt something for Michael. Whether what he did and still does is unforgivable or not is up to each one of us. I, for one, think it is, in fact, unforgivable but each one has different values and morals.
[Edited 12/6/09 9:13am]