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PrintableTonyVanDam said: sosgemini said: (
 This thread is not about the AMA performance Mods )
So, I am getting into this really heated debate with a young gay activist over Adam Lambert. He feels that Lambert's overt display of sexuality makes him groundbreaking while I consider his behavior more akin to a Madonna media stunt and use Elton John, David Bowie and George Michael as examples of groundbreaking lgbt men who actually concentrated on artistry versus media antics. What say thee org? Is Lambert a queer groundbreaker or just a poser? 1. They're given Adam Lambert (too much?) credit because he is THE only gay artist to have this kind of performance that was NOT on cable TV. 2. You forgot to mention Freddie Mercury & Liberace. Liberace and Mercury never came out. Heck, some within Liberace's camp still try to deny he was gay. Please!!!   Space for sale... | |
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TonyVanDam said: sosgemini said: (
This thread is not about the AMA performance Mods )
So, I am getting into this really heated debate with a young gay activist over Adam Lambert. He feels that Lambert's overt display of sexuality makes him groundbreaking while I consider his behavior more akin to a Madonna media stunt and use Elton John, David Bowie and George Michael as examples of groundbreaking lgbt men who actually concentrated on artistry versus media antics. What say thee org? Is Lambert a queer groundbreaker or just a poser? 1. They're given Adam Lambert (too much?) credit because he is THE only gay artist to have this kind of performance that was NOT on cable TV. 2. You forgot to mention Freddie Mercury & Liberace. [Edited 11/25/09 7:05am] Liberace wasn't open about his sexuality,,,,in fact, he sued a British paper for even hinting that he was, and he won the case. | |
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RnBAmbassador said: America is not ready for, and never will accept male homosexuality.
There is more acceptance in the Caucasian community, but still by and large, the African-American community rejects it. To see two males kiss on national prime time tv is an abomination to the so-called moral majority. Notice they didn't get as outraged over the three way kiss of Madonna, Britany Spears and Christina Aguilera - but there has always been a double standard when it comes to lesbians and homosexuals (male). I surmise in part because The Bible, that book written by mortal men, does not make any references to 2 women being intimate , it only sites examples of God calling it an abomination of two knocking boots ( 7 references of such in tah rag of rags). Additionally the kiss by the female singers was done on MTV (which is cable), and the Lambert display was on regular network tv. Cable is far more liberal, and people have to pay for it. The fact that some in this thread have mentioned that people like Freddie Mercury, David Bowie, etc. never officially came out, whatever that is, LOL - their homosexuality is/was apparent, regardless of how many women they are seen with or indulge in fake marriages to. There are so many homosexuals in music, sports and movies/tv, and 97% of them live their lives in denial, lies, cover-ups and 3 dollar billism. When a celeb so-called comes out, it is a like 'woah' moment, but the females can do it and it seemingly does not harm their careers, but males - oh well, especially Black males. Imagine if Will Smith, Mase, P Diddy (or whatever she is called this week), Tyson Beckford, Maleek Yoba, Tyrese Gibson, Johnny Gill, Prince, Chris Brown, Soulja Boy Tell Em, Usher Raymond, Dr. Dre, Arsenio Hall, Eddie Murphy and Tyler Perry were to all hold a press conference at the same time and say, "Yes we are all homosexuals". Even Little Richard has never admitted, or Bobby Jones or Paul Morton, or Freddie Jackson, nor did the late Luther Vandross. America is so full of shit - who should care what anyone's sexuality and/or lifestyle is...to each his or her own. Once people can seperate the battle of choice versus born that way - then it will be better accepted. I guess their Christianity won't allow them to get around that, but they can get around all other so-called sins.. shaking my head at the hypocrasy. See, I mention THAT^ a year ago in another thread about how Yahweh's law never said any about "a woman lay down with a woman the same way a woman lay down with mankind". | |
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sosgemini said: TonyVanDam said: 1. They're given Adam Lambert (too much?) credit because he is THE only gay artist to have this kind of performance that was NOT on cable TV. 2. You forgot to mention Freddie Mercury & Liberace. Liberace and Mercury never came out. Heck, some within Liberace's camp still try to deny he was gay. Please!!! Were they kidding? Freddie was so straight compare to Liberace!  [Edited 11/25/09 11:30am] | |
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Harlepolis said: TonyVanDam said: 1. They're given Adam Lambert (too much?) credit because he is THE only gay artist to have this kind of performance that was NOT on cable TV. 2. You forgot to mention Freddie Mercury & Liberace. [Edited 11/25/09 7:05am] Liberace wasn't open about his sexuality,,,,in fact, he sued a British paper for even hinting that he was, and he won the case. And then a few years later, Liberace's ex-boyfriend tried to sue him. | |
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Well, almost everyone should know that Adam is gay. I don't think that Adam's sexuality or the kiss has that much to do with the uproar. I think the uproar stems from the fact that he was on network television (you know, the one that is on the FREE airwaves) simulating oral sex and s&m.
Adam could have easily done a SOLID performance that was groundbreaking and memorable for network television. I don't understand why his people didn't tell him that he couldn't do it there? If nothing else, Adam has definitely learned the difference between MTV and ABC/Disney. In defense, of ABC, they did wait until after 10pm EST to air it. That did give parents plenty enough time to put their kiddos to bed. **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
U 'gon make me shake my doo loose! http://www.twitter.com/nivlekbrad | |
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daPrettyman said: Well, almost everyone should know that Adam is gay. I don't think that Adam's sexuality or the kiss has that much to do with the uproar. I think the uproar stems from the fact that he was on network television (you know, the one that is on the FREE airwaves) simulating oral sex and s&m.
Adam could have easily done a SOLID performance that was groundbreaking and memorable for network television. I don't understand why his people didn't tell him that he couldn't do it there? If nothing else, Adam has definitely learned the difference between MTV and ABC/Disney. In defense, of ABC, they did wait until after 10pm EST to air it. That did give parents plenty enough time to put their kiddos to bed. That's where I think you miss the boat, the general public are 'supposedly' fine with a male homo, as long as hes a non threatening nuetered femmy comic relief type of man. What Adam did was do something sexual that was to the majority seen as active and dominant. That is rarely seen in this country. That's the problem. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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RnBAmbassador said: There is more acceptance in the Caucasian community, but still by and large, the African-American community rejects it.
Since when are caucasians so much more "accepting" of homosexuality? | |
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thesexofit said: Heck UK is quite easily shocked too
They're busy pryin splinters in their gums from their wooden teeth. [Edited 11/25/09 15:23pm] | |
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sassy33 said: RnBAmbassador said: There is more acceptance in the Caucasian community, but still by and large, the African-American community rejects it.
Since when are caucasians so much more "accepting" of homosexuality? I can't speak about the caucasian's acceptance(or lack of) of homosexuality,,,,,but I'm with RnBAmbassador about the black communtiy's severe denunciation of gay members of its own. | |
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Harlepolis said: sassy33 said: Since when are caucasians so much more "accepting" of homosexuality? I can't speak about the caucasian's acceptance(or lack of) of homosexuality,,,,,but I'm with RnBAmbassador about the black communtiy's severe denunciation of gay members of its own. Black people are no more homophobic than any other race. | |
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.... [Edited 11/25/09 15:26pm] | |
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sassy33 said: Harlepolis said: I can't speak about the caucasian's acceptance(or lack of) of homosexuality,,,,,but I'm with RnBAmbassador about the black communtiy's severe denunciation of gay members of its own. Black people are no more homophobic than any other race. Like I said, I can't speak for "any other race" but I've seen PLENTY of families turn against their own the minute they revealed themselves. Mind you, I'm not saying all of them are,,,,,but a BIG chunk of them are, sure as stone hell. | |
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Harlepolis said: sassy33 said: Black people are no more homophobic than any other race. Like I said, I can't speak for "any other race" but I've seen PLENTY of families turn against their own the minute they revealed themselves. Mind you, I'm not saying all of them are,,,,,but a BIG chunk of them are, sure as stone hell. Just cause SOME Black people are homophobic doesn't mean the whole race is anymore than any other race. | |
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sassy33 said: Harlepolis said: Like I said, I can't speak for "any other race" but I've seen PLENTY of families turn against their own the minute they revealed themselves. Mind you, I'm not saying all of them are,,,,,but a BIG chunk of them are, sure as stone hell. Just cause SOME Black people are homophobic doesn't mean the whole race is anymore than any other race. 
Did anybody say shit about "the whole race"? I merely pointed out the ones who ARE,,,,,and even though they're the SOME, their voices regarding gay people are louder than the rest. | |
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Harlepolis said: sassy33 said: Just cause SOME Black people are homophobic doesn't mean the whole race is anymore than any other race.
Did anybody say shit about "the whole race"? RnBAmbassador did. I merely pointed out the ones who ARE,,,,,and even though they're the SOME, their voices regarding gay people are louder than the rest.
Not really. It's all about who one CHOOSES to listen to. | |
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sassy33 said:[quote] Harlepolis said: RnBAmbassador did. I merely pointed out the ones who ARE,,,,,and even though they're the SOME, their voices regarding gay people are louder than the rest.
Not really. It's all about who one CHOOSES to listen to. Thats really admirable and all, but in reality,,,,there're MANY easily influenced people around who wanna do "the right thing", and when you're easily influenced you don't have the luxury to CHOOSE who you listen to,,,,,and in result, you do the "wrong thing" regardless of your good intentions by listening to the wrong crowd. 3/4 of black people in America are Christian(yes, even some of the gay ones),,,,and what do these Christians do every Sunday when they go to Church? LISTEN to the condemnation against gay lifestyle while preaching about Jesus' embrace toward ALL mankind in the same breath. It is what is, not what YOU or ME want it to be. | |
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Thats really admirable and all, but in reality,,,,there're MANY easily influenced people around who wanna do "the right thing",
Easily Influenced is shorthand for stupid. and when you're easily influenced you don't have the luxury to CHOOSE who you listen to,,,,,and in result, you do the "wrong thing" regardless of your good intentions by listening to the wrong crowd.
If people need someone to tell them HOW to think they have MANY more problems than worrying about their homophobia. 3/4 of black people in America are Christian
Since when? and what do these Christians do every Sunday when they go to Church? LISTEN to the condemnation against gay lifestyle while preaching about Jesus' embrace toward ALL mankind in the same breath.
Christianity & Condemnation Of Homosexuality are NOT synonymous. This idea that all Black Churches are breeding grounds for bigotry is false. There are a LOT of problems with homophobia in the Black Community especially as it pertains to the Black Church but the idea that those issues make Black people worse than any other race of people when it comes to homophobia is absurd. | |
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sassy33 said: Easily Influenced is shorthand for stupid. (Thats YOUR call, not mine.) If people need someone to tell them HOW to think they have MANY more problems than worrying about their homophobia.(Well, you got that right.) Since when? (Since the robbery from their original religion(s) took place). Christianity & Condemnation Of Homosexuality are NOT synonymous(I'm not talking about Christianity,,,I'm talking about SOME of the Christians who do use Christianity in order to fit their agenda, homophobia being one of them.) This idea that all Black Churches are breeding grounds for bigotry is false.(Not ALL, but a big chunk of them are). There are a LOT of problems with homophobia in the Black Community especially as it pertains to the Black Church but the idea that those issues make Black people worse than any other race of people when it comes to homophobia is absurd. And once again, I didn't set a comparison poll,,,,,I'm just pointing what IS happening in alot of these churches and households without comparing it to how other racial group deal with it. There're many black people who are not against this lifestyle,,,but there're also MANY who consider the mere mention of it as "taboo". Unfortunately, the latter group are the POPULAR ones. [Edited 11/25/09 17:17pm] | |
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You know i see that people are saying that Britney and Madonna didnt take the fallout that Lambert took, which is true, but neither came out, also neither is UGLY, thats a huge point, if these were two ugly females, that came out, and tongued each other down on stage, that shit would have the same backlash. 99% of the females that kiss are not even gay, its a fucking trend to get you on Girls Gone Wild DVD or YouTube.
Lets not forget that ELLEN did all this, and got blacklisted, lost her show, lost her endorsements, didnt get booked anywhere to even do standup, couldnt get any work, so please already with "poor adam" [Edited 11/25/09 18:06pm] "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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(Thats YOUR call, not mine.)
You choose to give them an easy out. Me not so much. (Since the robbery from their original religion(s) took place).
What With The Who Now? (I'm not talking about Christianity,,,I'm talking about SOME of the Christians who do use Christianity in order to fit their agenda, homophobia being one of them.)
SOME Christians of ALL RACES use religion as a basis for their homophobia. (Not ALL, but a big chunk of them are).
Other race's churches are too. The current POPE has several choice things to say about homosexuality. None of them flattering. And once again, I didn't set a comparison poll
RnBAmbassador did & you agreed with him. ,,,,,I'm just pointing what IS happening in alot of these churches and households without comparing it to how other racial group deal with it.
If homophobia is universal why does race matter? Unfortunately, the latter group are the POPULAR ones.
They are not. If you CHOOSE to believe that that's on you but that is NOT the case. At all. [Edited 11/25/09 17:55pm] | |
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You choose to give them an easy out.
Correction; I choose NOT to put human beings on a pedestal. What With The Who Now?
Two words; American History. Look it up! If homophobia is universal why does race matter?
HOT FLASH: Race is a universal issue as well. SOME Christians of ALL RACES use religion as a basis for their homophobia.
So? Other race's churches are too.
The current POPE has several choice things to say about homosexuality. None of them flattering. Again, SO? My concern here is how some members of the black communtiy treat their gay members. RnBAmbassador did & you agreed with him
Yes, I agreed with the fact that some black people dissociate from some of their gay members. What of it? Whether I agree or disagree, it IS a fact, not an opinion. They are not.
If you CHOOSE to believe that that's on you but that is NOT the case. At all. Cool,,,,,whats the case then? [Edited 11/25/09 18:17pm] | |
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Correction; I choose NOT to put human beings on a pedestal.
Who put human beings on a pedestal to begin with? Yes, I agreed with the fact that some black people dissociate with some of their gay members. What of it?
SOME. That is the key. The ORIGINAL assertion was that Black People were more homophobic than White People. Which was not, is not & never will be the case. Two words; American History. Look it up!
Again. What with the who now? You asserted that 3/4 of African Americans were Christians. Since when? Race is a universal issue as well.
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? So?
Implying one group is more homophobic than others is naive at best & ignorant at worst. Again, SO? My concern here is how some members of the black communtiy treat their gay members.
Again. If you are so concerned with homophobia in the black community why agree with a statement that one group is more homophobic than any other if homophobia is universal? Yes, I agreed with the fact that some black people dissociate with some of their gay members. What of it? Whether I agree or disagree, it IS a fact, not an opinion.
That's the thing. Nobody was arguing that. Cool,,,,,whats the case then?
You're frothing at the mouth in an attempt to defend an assertion that is indefensible. Why? | |
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Who put human beings on a pedestal to begin with?
You said I choose to give them an easy way out,,,,I'm aware of their shortcomings which is why I don't put them on a pedestal(Hence, WHY I give them an easy way out). Again.
What with the who now? You asserted that 3/4 of African Americans were Christians. Since when? Since slavery, my dear. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
What does ANYTHING have to do with the price of tea in China? Lets leave the mind games for kids. Shall we? Implying one group is more homophobic than others is naive at best & ignorant at worst.
Please I wasn't even hinting that let alone implying it, so drop it already.
Again.
If you are so concerned with homophobia in the black community why agree with a statement that one group is more homophobic than any other if homophobia is universal? I can't speak about the caucasian's acceptance(or lack of) of homosexuality - Does that quote indicate an agreement or comparision between the two groups? You're reaching.
You're frothing at the mouth in an attempt to defend an assertion that is indefensible.
Why? If you think that my attempt of calling out the hypocrisy that goes around in many circles in the black community is "an attempt to defend an assertion that is indefensible" then you must be living inside a bubble. [Edited 11/25/09 19:01pm] | |
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I believe there is a lot of homophobia in the black community and it is really fucking stupid considered what black people have been through and continue to go through in this country. | |
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You said I choose to give them an easy way out,,,,I'm aware of their shortcomings which is why I don't put them on a pedestal(Hence, WHY I give them an easy way out).
Making excuses for people's need to allow others to think for them is not forgiving them for shortcomings. It's excusing their ignorance. I can't speak about the caucasian's acceptance(or lack of) of homosexuality - Does that quote indicate an agreement or comparision between the two groups?
If you didn't want to address the topic at hand why venture an "opinion" at all? You're reaching.
No dear. That would be you. You're frothing at the mouth in an attempt to defend an assertion that is indefensible.
Why? If you think that my attempt of calling out the hypocrisy that goes around in many circles in the black community is "an attempt to defend an assertion that is indefensible" then you must be living inside a bubble.
That's the thing. You weren't calling out anything. You jumped into an existing convo with your 2 cents which had no bearing on the topic that is/was being discussed. | |
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wow, we have an old school dissect a thread war going on...it's getting me misty for the old wellbeyond/icenine days.  Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: wow, we have an old school dissect a thread war going on...it's getting me misty for the old wellbeyond/icenine days. Hi Nick.  | |
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Making excuses for people's need to allow others to think for them is not forgiving them for shortcomings.
It's excusing their ignorance. Its REALITY,,,,,the result of people letting others think FOR THEMSELVES can be seen loud & clear everytime you turn on the news, its pretty well documented down here on planet earth. You on the other hand act like they don't exist - or don't deserve to be
If you didn't want to address the topic at hand why venture an "opinion" at all?
If its not one thing, its the other with you, huh?
No dear.
That would be you. Really? Hmmm 
That's the thing.
You weren't calling out anything. You jumped into an existing convo with your 2 cents which had no bearing on the topic that is/was being discussed. YET you huffed & puffed your way to punch holes in my case all this time? Girl, please  [Edited 11/25/09 19:27pm] | |
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sosgemini said: wow, we have an old school dissect a thread war going on...it's getting me misty for the old wellbeyond/icenine days.
Healthy conversation, Sos now wipe the drool off your shoes  | |
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