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Printablejohnart said: I really don't get the great opposition to gender re-assignment. Even if you want to back it up with some other science.
I have no idea.
It's not like this is something that has just "come up" and is in vogue or trend.It's not like it's not based on decades of research and studies. It's not like folk just request a reassignment and get scheduled for one next month. This is not something that affects anyone but the person undergoing the procedure and their immediate family. Why does it bother anyone?  And the religious people know they should not stand in judgment of anyone. | |
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WaterInYourBath said: The interesting part is that majority of biological scientists who hate the notion of God (like some of you) and are atheistic would refer to Chaz with "she" and "her" also, since they would not disregard the fact that Chaz had female-specific hormone levels and development (breasts, menstrual cycle, etc) before this procedure. Sure, Chaz is attracted to women, and certain portions of Chaz's brain may have developed to express a masculine mentality or psyche causing Chaz to feel like a man. But unless Chaz was born with a genetic abnormality like Swyer syndrome (a female body with male sex-chromosomes), the average scientist would not recognize Chaz as actually being a male human if Chaz was born with normal female XX sex-chromosomes. So are these particular scientists (who would base these facts on non-Biblical, scientifically proven evidence) negatively judging Cher's child as well?
There's a big difference between "male" and "man". No one is arguing that Chaz is male. He is, and always will be, biologically female. But he is a man nonetheless. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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PurpleGstring said: meow85 said: And I feel sorry for you for being so ignorant. Educate yourself on the subject before you go spouting stupidity on the internet, and have some respect. This goes for everyone on here insisting Chaz's decision is wrong or offensive or sick, and those who insist on calling him "she". [Edited 11/21/09 2:45am] I am not being ignorant for my opinion. If gender was between your eyes, why is Chaz getting a dick implanted between her legs??? The whole idea is SICK! She is calling God a lie to change what she was born with. For the record she will always be a WOMAN. Go ahead be a lesbian but to alter your woman hood is ridiculous. What now she's gonna be scratching and trying out her new set of balls and her new pool stick? The issue she needs to be worried about is her weight and health right now. If Cher is okay with it, then it's only because she doesn't have a choice. Behind closed doors I would cry bloody tears!  Then that makes you not only ignorant, but willfully so. If that's how you choose to act, I would be ashamed to have you as my mother. More power to Cher for being more open-minded and willing to learn and understand than people like you. [Edited 11/21/09 22:15pm] "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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Vendetta1 said: johnart said: I really don't get the great opposition to gender re-assignment. Even if you want to back it up with some other science.
I have no idea.
It's not like this is something that has just "come up" and is in vogue or trend.It's not like it's not based on decades of research and studies. It's not like folk just request a reassignment and get scheduled for one next month. This is not something that affects anyone but the person undergoing the procedure and their immediate family. Why does it bother anyone? And the religious people know they should not stand in judgment of anyone. But they do. Often, and with relish.  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: WaterInYourBath said: The interesting part is that majority of biological scientists who hate the notion of God (like some of you) and are atheistic would refer to Chaz with "she" and "her" also, since they would not disregard the fact that Chaz had female-specific hormone levels and development (breasts, menstrual cycle, etc) before this procedure. Sure, Chaz is attracted to women, and certain portions of Chaz's brain may have developed to express a masculine mentality or psyche causing Chaz to feel like a man. But unless Chaz was born with a genetic abnormality like Swyer syndrome (a female body with male sex-chromosomes), the average scientist would not recognize Chaz as actually being a male human if Chaz was born with normal female XX sex-chromosomes. So are these particular scientists (who would base these facts on non-Biblical, scientifically proven evidence) negatively judging Cher's child as well?
There's a big difference between "male" and "man". No one is arguing that Chaz is male. He is, and always will be, biologically female. But he is a man nonetheless. Yeah, that's probably the best way to look at this. I've been associating "she" and "her" pronouns with biology, not sociologically defined gender characteristics/roles. But in terms of society's standards, with Chaz's mindset and all female organs removed, like you stated, Chaz will be considered a man (although in medical science Chaz is still a female). That's understandable. "You put water into a cup, it becomes the cup...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend." - Bruce Lee
"Water can nourish me, but water can also carry me. Water has magic laws." - JCVD | |
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WaterInYourBath said: meow85 said: There's a big difference between "male" and "man". No one is arguing that Chaz is male. He is, and always will be, biologically female. But he is a man nonetheless. Yeah, that's probably the best way to look at this. I've been associating "she" and "her" pronouns with biology, not sociologically defined gender characteristics/roles. But in terms of society's standards, with Chaz's mindset and all female organs removed, like you stated, Chaz will be considered a man (although in medical science Chaz is still a female). That's understandable. Back to square one... Chaz is having the surgery for NOTHING...LOL! She is all-woman!  regardless to how she feels inside.
None of them got what it takes 2 B a future baby mama Gotta bend in the wind, but don't break 2 keep your man Show me 1 of them and I'll make her mine With no more drama Future baby mama  | |
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WaterInYourBath said: meow85 said: There's a big difference between "male" and "man". No one is arguing that Chaz is male. He is, and always will be, biologically female. But he is a man nonetheless. Yeah, that's probably the best way to look at this. I've been associating "she" and "her" pronouns with biology, not sociologically defined gender characteristics/roles. But in terms of society's standards, with Chaz's mindset and all female organs removed, like you stated, Chaz will be considered a man (although in medical science Chaz is still a female). That's understandable. ok to some people i'm part of the transgender community because i do drag. most of my friends i know before i started doing drag refer to be as a he, all of my friends in the Sisters refer to me as a she, my friends i've met as a Sister but aren't a Sister refer to me as either he or she. i normally refer to myself as a he out of drag and as a she in drag You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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PurpleGstring said: WaterInYourBath said: Yeah, that's probably the best way to look at this. I've been associating "she" and "her" pronouns with biology, not sociologically defined gender characteristics/roles. But in terms of society's standards, with Chaz's mindset and all female organs removed, like you stated, Chaz will be considered a man (although in medical science Chaz is still a female). That's understandable. Back to square one... Chaz is having the surgery for NOTHING...LOL! She is all-woman! regardless to how she feels inside.And you are all-ignorant, regardless what you claim to the contrary. If you have or will have kids, I sincerely pray none of them are trans, with a mother like you.  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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ehuffnsd said: WaterInYourBath said: Yeah, that's probably the best way to look at this. I've been associating "she" and "her" pronouns with biology, not sociologically defined gender characteristics/roles. But in terms of society's standards, with Chaz's mindset and all female organs removed, like you stated, Chaz will be considered a man (although in medical science Chaz is still a female). That's understandable. ok to some people i'm part of the transgender community because i do drag. most of my friends i know before i started doing drag refer to be as a he, all of my friends in the Sisters refer to me as a she, my friends i've met as a Sister but aren't a Sister refer to me as either he or she. i normally refer to myself as a he out of drag and as a she in drag Hey now, don't go bringing drag into this! The more-or-less straightforward trans issues are going right over some people's heads already without dragging (har har) the sometimes even messier gender politics of drag into the discussion.  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: ehuffnsd said: ok to some people i'm part of the transgender community because i do drag. most of my friends i know before i started doing drag refer to be as a he, all of my friends in the Sisters refer to me as a she, my friends i've met as a Sister but aren't a Sister refer to me as either he or she. i normally refer to myself as a he out of drag and as a she in drag Hey now, don't go bringing drag into this! The more-or-less straightforward trans issues are going right over some people's heads already without dragging (har har) the sometimes even messier gender politics of drag into the discussion. as RuPaul says: It's all drag. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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ehuffnsd said: meow85 said: Hey now, don't go bringing drag into this! The more-or-less straightforward trans issues are going right over some people's heads already without dragging (har har) the sometimes even messier gender politics of drag into the discussion. as RuPaul says: It's all drag. Truer words were never spoke. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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