johnart said:

That's not comparable to Cher's daughter. She wasn't born with a physical injury, abnormal growth, or harmful chromosomal mutation that requires her to now attempt to become a man. She's also not hermaphroditic. Like Chaz said, her conception of gender/sexuality is supposedly mental since its "between the ears, not between the legs," therefore these procedures are not even necessary, and they actually contradict Chaz's own opinion. And if Chaz is implying with that statement that her issue is a neurological condition, then literally trying to build a male body is still not required.

please see the thread on Transgender Day of Remembrance
http://prince.org/msg/100/324328
[Edited 11/20/09 23:33pm]

Timmy84 said:

I agree.

PurpleGstring said:

And I feel sorry for you for being so ignorant.

Educate yourself on the subject before you go spouting stupidity on the internet, and have some respect. This goes for everyone on here insisting Chaz's decision is wrong or offensive or sick, and those who insist on calling him "she".
[Edited 11/21/09 2:45am]

Vendetta1 said:

You and me, both.

For that matter, I don't understand how Prince himself can be such a dickhead when it comes to queer people, all things considered. IMO Our Lady likely has some denial issues going on.
[Edited 11/21/09 2:44am]

vainandy said:

Your theory is cute, but it doesn't work. There's evidence of trans folk living in every single society there's ever been, including the ones that accepted same sex desires as normal.

mynameisnotsusan said:

There's evidence that structurally and chemically, trans people are actually born with the brain of the gender they feel they should be and not the one that matches their external body. So a biological male has something closer to a "woman" brain, and a biological female has something closer to a "man" brain even before they seriously consider transitioning, let alone beginning treatments.

ehuffnsd said:

Stupid people are determined to remain stupid.

Thanks for the link though.

Good for him.


Chaz, if you're ever in the area, let's go for a coffee.

The interesting part is that majority of biological scientists who hate the notion of God (like some of you) and are atheistic would refer to Chaz with "she" and "her" also, since they would not disregard the fact that Chaz had female-specific hormone levels and development (breasts, menstrual cycle, etc) before this procedure. Sure, Chaz is attracted to women, and certain portions of Chaz's brain may have developed to express a masculine mentality or psyche causing Chaz to feel like a man. But unless Chaz was born with a genetic abnormality like Swyer syndrome (a female body with male sex-chromosomes), the average scientist would not recognize Chaz as actually being a male human if Chaz was born with normal female XX sex-chromosomes. So are these particular scientists (who would base these facts on non-Biblical, scientifically proven evidence) negatively judging Cher's child as well?

meow85 said:

I am not being ignorant for my opinion. If gender was between
your eyes, why is Chaz getting a dick implanted between her legs???
The whole idea is SICK! She is calling God a lie to change what she
was born with. For the record she will always be a WOMAN. Go ahead be
a lesbian but to alter your woman hood is ridiculous. What now she's
gonna be scratching and trying out her new set of balls and her new pool stick?

The issue she needs to be worried about is her weight and health right now. If Cher is okay with it, then it's only because she doesn't have a choice. Behind closed doors I would cry bloody tears!

xlr8r said:

Exactly my point her weight is the last thing on her mind!
It shouldn't be that way.

WaterInYourBath said:

Are you kidding me with this? It is totally comparable if the basis of ignorant rants is what God/god did or not intend.
So you're just dismissing psychiatry and psychology as not legitimate medically?? Or just the mental disorders you don't personally understand or accept? Sorry that some disorders are do not express themselves physically enough for your liking/acceptance.
But fine, let's go that route. We shouldn't really treat folk with mental disorders either since in bible reality they are probably just POSSESSED by demons....wooooo spooooky!!!
[Edited 11/21/09 7:35am]

PurpleGstring said:

You're not being ignorant for having an opinion.
You're being ignorant in the sad and insensitive way you express it.

johnart said:

I wonder if any of these people feel the same way about people who do anything to themselves physically from wearing makeup to have a nose or boob job. I don't seem to remember them posting to any of those types of threads.

And it's beyond hilarious to me the purplegstring has Apples in his/her profile.

PurpleGstring said:

Huh?

Im not even talking about the weight. Im talking about in the face, he resembles John Candy. Eyebrows and expressions.

And I know this type of thing rocks your beliefs regarding god/religion but just as several things rocks other peoples thinking enough for their deterination that there is no god etc.

Why not be respectful of an individual regardless and if you so believe in god, let someones life decisions be between them.

Its that defiant fervent attitude/opinion you are expressing that has caused the death of millions of people since the dawn of time.

xlr8r said:

MidniteMagnet said:

Gender IS between your ears. What's between your legs is sex. Two different concepts, one is biological the other is a social construction

LightOfArt said:

ok just a revision, sex is not between your legs neither. a lot of people agree that your sex is defined by your chromosomal make up. so altering one's genitalia still won't change one's sex. and i guess that's why it's called a gender reassignment surgery and not a sex reassignment surgery...

i can't even begin to imagine what trans people go through in this life...my deepest sympathies
[Edited 11/21/09 10:51am]

This has nothing to do with some god or anything along those lines, I don't understand why it was even brought up in this thread. There are many factors that contribute to transgenders making the ultimate change in life. These factors range from biological factors such as genetic influences (DNA), prenatal hormone levels, early experiences in family of origin and of course social influences. All of these contribute to the development of transgender behaviours and identities.

Vendetta1 said:

God must have wanted Apples tits that big. Maybe she got a Divine Permission Slip or something.

johnart said:

Don't be talkin' about Apples' titties!

johnart said:

bboy87 said:

I love tits.

I rather talk about the hatchet job she did to her face.

johnart said:

The first thing that came to my mind when reading that post was bi-polar people.

johnart said:

You're right about how doctors would treat Chaz if this were a mental problem, especially since the desire to become transgender is listed as a disorder in the DSM-IV. I do recognize the fact that Chaz's feelings could be biopsychological, but that still does not require this type of reproductive alteration. If it could be determined by medical testing that there is some sort of abnormal activity in Chaz's brain affecting Chaz's mental conception of self-gender, it could be recommended for Chaz to be treated at the source of the issue (neurologically), to somehow suppress or alter whatever neurotransmitters are causing Chaz to think and feel like a man. However, if this isn't a neuropsychological condition, but rather caused by Chaz's social experiences/environment, then there would not be a "defect" at all, but rather a learned mentality that could still be treated with psychiatry. And this is based on medical science, not anyone's spiritual beliefs.

WaterInYourBath said:

That sounds a lot like what some people think should be done to all gays.

sextonseven said:

That's not what I was referring to. There are plenty of homosexual women who feel that they are and should be females (mentally and physically), so this science would not apply to them. The medical issue in this case is Chaz perceiving her/himself as being a male in a normal female body, not Chaz's attraction to women.

I really don't get the great opposition to gender re-assignment. Even if you want to back it up with some other science.
It's not like this is something that has just "come up" and is in vogue or trend.It's not like it's not based on decades of research and studies. It's not like folk just request a reassignment and get scheduled for one next month.

This is not something that affects anyone but the person undergoing the procedure and their immediate family. Why does it bother anyone?