How do some of you feel about MJJC charging members a fee to access the 2000 Watts section?

I was going to post about the Prince part....that writer is way off base there.

Prince is the one that brokw down those barriers between R&B and Rock, a long time before "Beat It" and deserves the credit for it, for sure.

The article is cute. I understand what he's trying to, and yes, Michael deserves more credit than he gets, but not as much as the article gives him.

The fact is that those records were created by a team of the most talented people in the world. It's one thing to have a musical vision but entirely another to pull it off flawlessly. I mean, let's be real, you've got:

Michael - an INCREDIBLY talented vocalist and competent songwriter.

Quincy Jones - one of the greatest producers of all time.

Bruce Swedien - Genius audio engineer and mixer with an untouchable track record

Rod Temperton, Steve Porcaro, Stevie Wonder, Siedah Garrett, Tom Bahler, Paul McCartney, James Ingram - all incredibly talented songwriters who contributed to OTW, Thriller, Bad.

Greg Phillinganes, Louis Johnson, Jerry Hey & The Seawind Horns, Paulinho Da Costa, Wah Wah Watson.....the musicians that actually played on these albums are like a who's who of some of the baddest motherfuckas to ever touch their respective instruments. Put players like these with a producer like Quincy and you've got = instant win.

Regarding those demos, it doesn't really matter if it was Michael that came out with the great melodies, those songs are not hit songs on their own. They are demos. The musicianship is sloppy, the vocals are unfocused, they aren't produced or mixed to anywhere near a professional degree - they are like moulds of clay that kind of resemble something good.

These songs need killer production, killer production and killer mixes to be hits.

I can write songs as good as the Thriller demos at home in my home studio. I'm a good vocalist, a fairly competent producer, and a fairly competent audio engineer.

But it's when I take those demos to my cousins professional studio (my cousin is a multiplatinum award winning songwriter, producer and mixing engineer), and bring in some of the best musicians I know to play on them, that the songs REALLY come to life. You simply cannot underestimate the roles of the songwriters, producers, musicians and engineers in the music industry.

It's unfair for people to try and diminish the things that MJ brought to the table. But it's also unrealistic to think he is the only, or even the main, factor in the success of those records.

I was considering buying this book but many fans are boycotting it because of rolling stone's past treatment of Michael. But with your description, I'm reconsidering. Is there any negativity at all about Mike?
[Edited 11/28/09 16:32pm]

I don't think that's the intent of the article to some extent. Scorpeze is saying that with the songs that Michael wrote for the album (Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', The Girl Is Mine, Beat It, Billie Jean), the foundation, the concepts, the vision was there. They weren't just him singing songs Quincy and Rod handed to him to sing.

In regards to the demo of The Girl Is Mine, it's basically the finished song (Done at Allen Zentz Studio).

You're absolutely right, It took the role of great songwriters:
Rod Temperton (Thriller, Baby Be Mine, The Lady In My Life)
Michael Jackson (Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', The Girl Is Mine, Beat It, Billie Jean)
James Ingram (PYT)
Steve Porcaro and John Bettis (Human Nature)
the legendary Bruce Swedien

and the work of musicians of like Greg Philliganes, Steve Lukather, Jerry Hey, Michael Boddicker, and many others that helped pull the album off

But the vision of Michael and Quincy was, in my opinion, the star of the show


I hope I don't seem like I'm rambling
[Edited 11/28/09 18:00pm]

I appreciate your post, however I will always maintain Michael was the STAR of Thriller, without taking anything away from the amazing producer that Quincy is. Those 4 demos of MJs are amazing!Anybody being truthful will admit very little improvement was made on the final cuts. In fact some prefer the Demos.
When I say MJ was the STAR, we must remember the videos for Thriller had as much or more to do with its success as the actual songs. MJ reigned in the video era. But even before the video, there was Motown25, when Mike set the world ablaze with his awesome dancing and dance moves! I, personally, don't think Thriller would have ever become THRILLER!!!!! had it not been for Motown 25. Michael's awesome dancing AND exceptional songs/singing made Thriller the phenomenon it became. Let's stop downplaying this man's genius. I think the best lesson we got from TII, is that MJ is/was in control of every facet of his creations. He was the ultimate genius. I do respect everone involved in Thriller project, but hey at the end of the day Michael Joseph Jackson was the STAR.
[Edited 11/29/09 8:39am]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/110459/Michael-Jackson-was-due-to-study-fine-art-at-university-

POP legend Michael Jackson was planning to start a university course in fine art after his daughter Paris begged him to follow his dream of studying.

Michael wanted to head back to the classroom to become a qualified art historian.

But it was 11-year-old Paris who gave her famous dad the push he needed to study.

Last May he got his assistants to contact both Christie’s Education and Sotheby’s Institute of Art, both in New York, with a view to starting a year-long course in September next year.

Last night a source close to the star, who died in June, aged 50, said: “It was all because of Paris that Michael decided to follow his dream.

“She gave him the confidence to finally contact the colleges that are attached to the famous auction houses.”

The course Jackson had pencilled in was called “Certificate in Modern Art, Connoisseurship and the History of the Art Market”.

The source added: “Michael regretted the fact that he never got the chance to go to university because his music career started so early.

“But he made up for it by reading widely. He absolutely devoured books on art and crafts and was an avid collector. He had an insatiable thirst for knowledge.

n“People don’t realise but Michael was surrounded by a whole gang of academic friends. Many of his closest associates had nothing to do with showbiz.

“He was also inspired by a motivation to prove his father wrong, as Joe Jackson constantly accused Michael of being stupid. Most of all, Michael wanted to be an inspiration to his own kids.”

How sweet. I wish he could have done that.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/110459/Michael-Jackson-was-due-to-study-fine-art-at-university-

POP legend Michael Jackson was planning to start a university course in fine art after his daughter Paris begged him to follow his dream of studying.

Michael wanted to head back to the classroom to become a qualified art historian.

But it was 11-year-old Paris who gave her famous dad the push he needed to study.

Last May he got his assistants to contact both Christie’s Education and Sotheby’s Institute of Art, both in New York, with a view to starting a year-long course in September next year.

Last night a source close to the star, who died in June, aged 50, said: “It was all because of Paris that Michael decided to follow his dream.

“She gave him the confidence to finally contact the colleges that are attached to the famous auction houses.”

The course Jackson had pencilled in was called “Certificate in Modern Art, Connoisseurship and the History of the Art Market”.

The source added: “Michael regretted the fact that he never got the chance to go to university because his music career started so early.

“But he made up for it by reading widely. He absolutely devoured books on art and crafts and was an avid collector. He had an insatiable thirst for knowledge.

n“People don’t realise but Michael was surrounded by a whole gang of academic friends. Many of his closest associates had nothing to do with showbiz.

“He was also inspired by a motivation to prove his father wrong, as Joe Jackson constantly accused Michael of being stupid. Most of all, Michael wanted to be an inspiration to his own kids.”

How sweet. I wish he could have done that.

bboy why u posting that tabloid

oops, I didn´t notice the source, but hopefully it´s true. It sounds like something Mike would have done and I don´t think they´d wanna make up something positive about him.