What do y'all not like about hip-hop or rap. Give it to me dirty. List it, yell it, sout it out, spell it, hell, rhyme it even.

It never gets faster than midtempo.

The type of drum machines they use sound weak. They just barely tap and sound like a damn clock ticking. And when they do use harder sounding drum machines, then they pound too hard and actually echo three times longer than real drums. Put this on a slow tempo, which they do, and they end up sounding like a fog horn. Every type of drum machine they use just sounds cheap. People say "Well Prince used drum machines in the 1980s", well hell, Prince's drum machines didn't sound weak and cheap sounding like these today. They were a totally different sound and he also used them in the same songs with real drums, bass, and other instruments.

There is no bassline in the music and when they do have a bassline, it is a fake bassline that sounds weak and cheap sounding. With no good drums and no bass, they have taken every element of rhythm out of the music.

Those were just the musical gripes I have about it (which are the ones that irritate me the most) but just like they have no imagination and creativity musically, they also have none fashionwise either. Their uniform is baggy jeans, oversize T Shirts, and sneakers. Their baseball caps are basically their wigs. Where the hell is the individuality and outrageousness? There is none. No style whatsover.

They glorify a thug and criminal image. And I'm not talking about some wild fantasy type criminal image such as a 1920s gangster or some international spy or something. They glorify the low class common criminal on the street corner that is very easy for people to immitate or even become.

They are the most homophobic bastards I have ever encountered. I grew up around some of the worst rednecks around and they don't hold a candle to shit hop when it comes to homophobia. When I used to hear country music, I used to immediately think homophobia because so much of their audience was homophobic. But at least in country music, it was simply the audience and the entertainers themselves weren't using gay bashing lyrics in their songs. But shit hop is filled with homophobic lyrics. That's basically preaching homophobia.

It's basically just a talentless, tasteless, rhythmless, degrading, and cheap genre. I don't do cheap and I sure don't put up with assholes so naturally I'm going to hate shit hop.

vainandy said:

so back your shit up with examples

Turn on the radio to a station that plays mainstream R&B and you'll hear all the examples you need. You won't hear any real drums, nor real bass, and you sure as hell won't hear anything fast.

Turn on the TV and you'll see the clothes and the attitude. Hell, just look out the window and you'll see it.

As for listing individual "artists" if that's what you want to call them, I don't listen to the bullshit so I couldn't give you any names. I've heard the shit from flipping through the television channels, seeing it on the news when one them causes a controversy, from being around co-workers or family members who were playing it, and from passing cars.

oh wow...thias is gonna be fun!

vainandy said:

have U heard of Onyx or Public Enemy?!?! Not to mention MANY other uptempo hip hop or rap artist. Can I asay Outkast? Bombs Over Baghdad.



An EXTREMELY mainstream Produce...>Dr. Dre. Used Drum Machines like the BEST of them. As welll as used live instrumentation. The Roots ARE a live band, in a current residency on The Jimmy Fallon Show. Too Short was a HUGE fan of live instrumentation and had a crew of live Musicians he worked with and had roots in jazz arrangement. Can I say Outkast?





TLC didn't subscribe to that "uniform" DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince, Will Smith again, The Roots, Onyx...ANY number of Hip Hop Rap artists didn't subscribe to that "uniform" MANY a time I seen Snoop, Dre, TuPac in SUITS even. I ain't even gonna bring Andre 3000.

Doesn't ANY genere of Music have a "uniform"? Tell me about one that doesn't.



What's a high class criminal? any criminal action is criminal. ESPECIALLY the ones in the 20's...and they were WHITE. They killed without repute. Most drug dealers I ever encountered were white. Don't believe the stereotypes. Do U think a CEO on Wall Street with a coke habit gets his blow from a corner in Baltimore?



I think U may be misconstruing a demand for masculine behavior with disposition/despise of men who have sex with men. Rap and Hip-Hop is a fairly masculine genera and culture. There's not a lot of room for frilly/feminine views. Don't mean they hate men who have sex with men. U won't find anyone dressed in lace in a Biker gang...don't mean they don't wear their leather chaps while bumping each others butts.

This is also not hip hop raps specific. The disposition for homosexuals is WORLD WIDE. Don't blame it on hip hop OR rap.




U're speaking of ONE aspect of the genera. TOO man hip hop songs are NOT degrading at all but uplifitng.

Can U do what these hip hop artists do? I think not. THat requires it to have talent. U thinking it's cheap is subjective.. As to it being tasteless, rhythmless...well that's so ignorant, I can't even address it.


all your post did was make U seem narrow mined, weak minded, easily controlled by images fed to U.


I was waiting for more people to post to get a wider view of the disdain for hip hop, but I didn't get many takers.

just please don't stereotype the genera. It's MUCH more diverse than U believe.

ANY genera of music can be stereotyped like U did to rap and hip hop. Educate yourself about something before U make judgements dripping in hate about it.



EDIT: And this is coming from a person who IS NOT the biggest fan of the genera AT ALL.
[Edited 10/24/09 7:43am]

Yeah, I can name uptempo ones also. I would have to go to the past to do it, but yeah, there used to be plenty of them such as Soul Sonic Force, Twilight 22, Divine Sounds, Run DMC, Whodini, Egyptian Lover, Pretty Tony, Freestyle, Felix and Jarvis, Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. The list goes on and on and as for you listing groups that play instruments and have rhythm, the groups I just listed did also.

And as far as your statement about the 1920s gangsters being white, you missed the point altogether. A criminal is a criminal regardless of their color and yes people do like to glorify criminals, especially in the media. But the average motherfucker couldn't go out and buy those expensive ass suits those gangsters wore. Any fucking high school student with a McDonald's job can go out and buy some big ass jeans, a T shirt, and a baseball cap from Walmart. Yeah, I can name some black negative images also such as Rick James who loved singing about drugs and even got in trouble with the law. But if someone wanted to immitate and be like Rick James, they would have to hire a clothes designer to make those clothes which would cost them a lot of money because you just couldn't walk into Walmart and buy something that looked similar to what he wore. Entertainment is fantasy we knew it was fanstasy. I never saw someone on the news being arrested for robbing a liquor store wearing thigh high boots and glittery braids...EVER. This "keep it real" stupid image is a little too damn easy for folks to immitate because it is cheap and people are immitating it. Plus they don't know the damn difference from fantasy or reality anymore.

And as far as the hate for homosexuals being worldwide, of course it is. But in other genres, I have rarely heard lyrics like "shooting AIDS up a faggot's ass" which I heard in some idiotic song coming from a car while I was pumping gas as well as countless other homophobic lyrics I've heard over the years such as "knocking a fag upside his head", "rob that bitch ass nigga" and on and on. And as a gay man with some damn pride, of course I'm not only not going to not like it, but I'm going to hate and fucking despise it. I wish a motherfucker would come to me wanting to knock me upside my head. That would be the last motherfucking head they go upside. I don't sleep with the enemy. And to see shit hop's downfall would be like a fucking orgasm to me.

And just because you listed a few exceptions, most of which I've never heard of, and some that I have heard of and don't agree with, but nevertheless, you said "shit hop" haters not "hip hop" haters, there is a difference. Yeah, if someone raps but can throwdown some bad ass uptempo jams with some decent sounding drums, bass, and rhythms, then they are hip hop. But if they can't, they are shit hop.

Next...
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[Edited 10/24/09 8:28am]

I had some nice dialouge with Vainandy about this on another thread.I think his problem is with just one type.He doesn't like the slow crunk or chopped and screwed.First thing out of his mouth is always the tempo.He acknowledges that Outkast and other rap acts(roots,mos def,etc.)isn't shit hop.The whole comments about wardrobe(baseball caps not good,but country star can wear cowboy hats..riiight)displays something else alltogether.Its a schtick,I get it and from now on I won't take this dude so seriously.When you blame your struggling love life on hip hop..U have to be tounge in cheek..right?

Country music is another genre that dresses cheap and wears simple things like cowboy hats and jeans. At least the majority of them do record with a live band though. I've also encountered a lot of homophobic country music fans in my life but I've rarely heard any homophobic lyrics in any country songs.

I'm not a fan of country music by no means but I don't hate it like I hate shit hop. Country music stayed on it's own stations where it belonged. It wasn't country music that was being played all over R&B radio to the point that funk, house music, or anything else rhythmic was run completely out of style and replaced by a slow ass weak sounding beat with some talking that refuses to either go out of style or underground like everything else eventually does to make room for new styles.

The problem that I have with it is the following.

1. Most of it has been "Dumb Down", to the point where it is almost insulting to the listener.

2. There is no originality in neither the rhymes or the music that they are using.

3. The death of Tupac and Biggie.

I suppose the title of the thread was misleading. I was simply utilizing the name given by the people I was seeking input form. I attempted to make that transparent with the quotation marks. He didn't seem to make his distinction obvious at all either.


Other Shit Hop, hip hop, rap hater please state your mind. I'm trying to define my differences with the genera better. I need help.

main problem I have is it's the most limited pop music genre I've heard

I just don't like the way it sounds.
Which I think should be justification enough.


I did like some of it in the early to mid 90s. But, I would never say I liked the genre.

Sandino said:

It's also one of the newset...maybe it needs some time to diversify. Who knows what hip hop/rap will be in 2020. Right not it's 30. Rock and roll is pushing 60 itself being a relatively new genera of music.

shorttrini said:

The first two sums it all for me as far as what's going
on in hip hop now.

Imago said:

that's such a general statement. It's like saying "I like the beat" What about the beat do U like...Do U like the tempo, timbre, emotion, lack of emotion. Translate that for me with "the way it sounds".

shorttrini said:

these are similar issues I have.

Back in the day, blues was something that a bluesman "Lived". They had experiences and lived a lifestyle that people "Shouldn't" live. It wasn't conducive to generally wholesome healthy experiences. Infidelity, substance abuse(alcohol, drugs), being solitary. They compiled these experiences in songs and reported from the front lines about their live, wishes, experiences, desired experiences. They lived it so we didn't have to. They made the mistakes we didn't want to risk. They let us know what it was like with out having to do it ourselves. Very sacrificial in nature. Reporters. journalists even.

Fast Forward 50-60 years...

Many rap artist brought forth the same situation. They lived lives we didn't want to. addressed situation we didn't have the courage to. Reported from the front lines. That aspect of rap has practically disappeared. Or either I can't find it. The materialism of the genera has been exploited. Commercialism seem to have embedded itself to point to where it's unremovable.

Like U said...this phenomenon seemed to take root with the death of Tupac And Biggie(I was never a big fan of biggie, but I don't underestimate his talent as a writer NOR his impact of the genera.

Can anyone let me know where I might find what they think i ma be looking for. I know about the common's and the, Mos Def's..the neo sould type movement...and I don't enjoy the amount of "social awareness" involved in their sound. I'm looking for something mor raw..closer to the source maybe? I unno...help...this is part of the reason for the thread. To help me to know what I am looking for.

Auto tune
no style
no true significance to Hip hop culture
Casio keyboard driven tracks

vainandy said:

I hope shit-hop gets a disco like backlash

BobGeorge909 said:

It was meant to absolutely be a general statement
I don't like the way it sounds.






Just like I don't like country and the way it sounds. One can argue that country is vaired (blue grass, contemporary, folk, southern-rock, ect. ), but bottom line is that there is a visceral knee-jerk distaste in me for the genre in all it's manefestations.

Same with hip hop. I don't like the sound.




That's not to say I don't have country acts and hip hop acts I love (I own all the outkast albums, and a few others from the 90s), and I own most of Mary Chapin Carpenter's albums. And there is a hip hop-ish artist here on the org that really shows signs of great promise.


It's not really something you can debate somebody into liking or disliking. I just don't like it. And I think painting with a wide brush as to why (Ie, I don't like the sound) is absolutely o.k.

BobGeorge909 said:

The genere itself was alright in my opinion..it's what happened when Master P came in that ruined it all for me. Now kids that are turning 18 are / habve grown up with most black music played on the radio is SHIT hop...not the REAL shit, but SHIT hop as Vainandy calls it.

Now im embarassed to say that I listen to hip hop because if I do say I do they are going to think of Akon, T-Pain, Soulja Boy and ignorant folks like Gucci mane young joc and Lil Wayne...not the shit I listen to a-la Kanye, Common, Lil Kim, Jay, Nas, Roots, Talib..the people who are not being recognized or not being played on the radio these days....even though they ARE still part of the real shit.

The South destroyed so much and cheapened mainstream hip hop to the point I don't even tell young people or people who don't listen to it that I do embrace the genere because they are going to assume i listen to those Coons who love to sell out the black experience and bring us down another 100 years. Why you think people are even more racist today than they were just 5 years ago? its because of the STUPID SHIT they play on the radio that is classified as "hip hop" that is helping destroy our reputation. And let me not even go there on R&B artsits only wanting to work with hip hop producers..thats a whole different thread right there.

BobGeorge909 said:

It's been around for 30 years. When rock was 30 it had already reached it's artistic peak. You can't use this excuse anymore.

I don't think you need to have a good voice to rap or "rap hip hop" poetry. You just need a voice. In other words, any one can do if they feel like learning all the poems/sermons and practice breathing exercises.

There is just no good voice needed. It lacks melody, it lacks soul, it's slow, it sounds like shouting, it comes across as agressive. Now I don't know any hiphop to give you any examples I'm afraid, because I don't experience it as music. To me it's words spoken in a rhyme. So I could pick up a book, rap it out loud and just add a little rhythm and intonation to my voice and no one would ever really know if I could sing or not.

I'm not a classical music freak, but if I had to choose, I'd listen to classical just because at least it has different moods and hip hop just seems like one mood to me. Monotonous. Sorry, I have nothing positive to say about it at all. But let the youth enjoy if that's what moves them.

There's a term..Hip hop isn't dead,it lives in the south(Vainandy,you didn't invent this either..lol)..and this is part of the problem.The south has always been a major buying market.Unfortunately their forms of hip hop(bounce,crunk)doesn't go with what you liked or grew up with(older hiphop).We grew up on PE..Epmd..Tribe and whatnot,it's normal for us to look at this other type of hiphop and call it shit.But Im not going to put Outkast,Lupe,The Roots in that group.Yall know there are different forms of hiphop.I survived 80's rock,I'll survive 2k southern hip hop.Those that just don't like it,I can respect that.

Bohemian67 said:

I will have to disagree with you, regarding your voice comment. The voice as well as delivery from that voice is one of the things that made Biggie, Rakim and Big Daddy Kane, the giants that they were. I look at hip/hop as today's news and rappers being the reporters of that news. Your delivery of the news effects the way it affects the audience that it is geared to. Today's rappers not only fail on content but also on the delivery of that content.

Not all current hip-hop is shitty. Some current hip-hop's fun, some of it is completely ignorant, some of it still make you think (like the independent hip-hop) and then there's the hip-hop where it's not really hip-hop but more pop or electro-oriented.

When I hear "shit hop" I hear Khia or something NASTY like that. Something so shitty even when you puke it still makes you SICK to your stomach. "My Neck My Back"... THAT'S shit hop!

I liked Hip Hop when it first came on the scene. It was fresh, new and original.
Artists were trying out some way-out there things, crazy stuff that we now take for granted, like scratching, sampling, vocal effects etc, etc.

Now there is very little orginal creativity involved other than to find new was to same the same shit lyrically. The music has not evolved, it is as stunted stunted musically as the artist are emotionally.
It has become the urban version of country western music, except not as original or daring. If you listen to shit-hop backward the lyrics say you become gainfully employed, respect your wife or girlfriend and don’t get upset too much in someone steps on your new sneakers.

Hip-Hop needs some one to change it up. Andy need not worry, Hip Hop has become a parody of itself, and every new generation will distance themselves from music their parents and grandparents are listening to. Seeing your dad or grandpa singing to fiddy-cent is going to a game changer..... mark my words.
[Edited 10/24/09 12:55pm]

Bohemian67 said:

The fact that you don't consider it music pretty much shows where u stand.The fact that you said noone would know if I could sing or not shows how uninformed you are.Rappers aren't singers.Again,you're complaining about the slow-tempo,call and response style of southern hip hop.Play "You got me" by The Roots feat Erykah Badu and you'll hear Tariq rapping with melody and feeling.Better yet,Ill make a uptempo beat for you and you grab a book and see if it's as easy as you say