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Printablemeow85 said: Closer, ring a bell? ::vid snip:: Johnny Cash famously covered NIN's "Hurt" as his final single release: ::vid snip:: Then there's this awesome version of "Gotta Get:Closer" (This is an edited version of the whole 7 minute version on the record). That guitar and organ hook is infectious! | |
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Wow, that was nice! It was great to be able to watch that awesome, free footage on youtube and in HD. That free concert on youtube got me intrigued about this 'NIN', and luckily there were free music videos on youtube that could really get me into their catalogue - very handy. What's more, they actually had the music and the video together. Amazing!
It was also good of them to offer 'The Slip' as a download, for free, without any catch! At least I could just delete any songs I didn't like - now that's musicology! Beats paying $25 for a coaster with a holographic cover!  I'm afraid of Americans. I'm afraid of the world. | |
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laurarichardson said: BlaqueKnight said: How funny that you would use those examples, which indeed ARE MARKETING TRICKS to make a counterpoint. Allowing your fans to film you freely and giving them songs to remix is far more interactive. It allows people to be part of the artist's musical experience. That ticket/CD combo was a MARKETING TRICK to get the CD on the charts. There is no way in hell it would have charted otherwise. Get real with that mess. CD with newspaper? Promo. He didn't do that one in the States. NONE of that is fan/artist interaction. NONE OF IT. What Bart and Earnest and I were talking about is the CONCEPT. Its a good idea no matter who does it. It doesn't have to be NIN. It can be Madonna or Brad Paisley or Miley Cyrus or Janet or even Lil Wayne. Its a GOOD IDEA. That is the point. ----- "It allows people to be part of the artist's musical experience. Your a part of the music experience when you sit your ass in the seat at the concert !!! I don't need to go to a concert and be bothered with filming the show. I want to listen to the music and party. I think getting a chance to go out to Paisley Park is enough fan interaction and since these people were told not to bring there cameras they all seemed to have a good time. In fact there was a time when we all went to concerts (without cameras) listened to music and sometimes actually purchased it and we were all perfectly happy. It's only a good idea when Prince does it,right?  | |
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SoulAlive said: laurarichardson said: ----- "It allows people to be part of the artist's musical experience. Your a part of the music experience when you sit your ass in the seat at the concert !!! I don't need to go to a concert and be bothered with filming the show. I want to listen to the music and party. I think getting a chance to go out to Paisley Park is enough fan interaction and since these people were told not to bring there cameras they all seemed to have a good time. In fact there was a time when we all went to concerts (without cameras) listened to music and sometimes actually purchased it and we were all perfectly happy. It's only a good idea when Prince does it,right? ----- WTF are you babbling on about ?? If you want to sit in the audience and film a concernt knock yourself out. It is not something I am interested in even if P allowed it. You guys need to stop using the word "fanbot" and try a new "can't read or comprehend bot" since that is what fills this board lately. There is simply no profit motive in giving loads of content away for free especially an artist like Prince who has been bootlegged to death. [Edited 10/29/09 7:26am] | |
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ernestsewell said: Zannaloaf said: yep. And by the way - Prince IS Indie. Indie has nothing to do with the type of music, it's how you are involved in the industry. Since he is not on a major label he is Indie. The fact that someone would not know that makes anything else they say about business wholly uninformed. Also - Laura Richardson can't help take offense at anything that credits another artist with a good move. If you want to make a real argument about marketing, then stick to the subject instead of ragging on a band that has PLENTY of fans, sold lots of records and has done quite well for themselves. I have not ONE NIN record, plenty of Prince ones, but that doesn't mean I can't look at the marketing and use of technology to share with fans as a great concept and a great opportunity for fans. Prince...yeah he has breadcrumbs for fans and that is about all. He is so far behind the times in marketing that he hurts his own potential sales. He may not HAVE to care, but his low sales and shrinking fan base have shown that no matter what the quality of music you need to MARKET...which is what WB did VERY well for him when he started out. And if you don't want to PAY for pro marketing then learn some viral stuff.
Even Prince himself told Scary Spice that record companies work hard, and it shows. He said they do their job well in marketing. Remember, he was pissed that Rave didn't sell well, and he blamed Clive and Arista for LACK of good marketing. (Of course the lead single blew monkey chunks.) You're spot on with the rest of your post too, Z. People like Laura, or whoever, have taken it to "who's better", when it's not about NIN, or Prince. It's about the very concept. So many indie and major label bands are 'user friendly', and offer soundboard hookups. DMB used to do it as well. Even Dave said back in the Napster days that, "I don't need to go suing college students if they tape my show. I don't care if they trade music on the internet here and there." While he knows he's losing money on that, he also knew that as much as DMB tours, THAT is where their bread was buttered. EVERY artist makes the bucks with touring, not record sales (unless you have some ridiculously awesome record deal, which so FEW do). To make a point about NIN: I own one NIN CD (I forgot I had bought With Teeth, which I stated earlier in the thread as to why). I never listen to it. However, I supported NIN because I liked what he was doing at that point w/ the GarageBand remixes for fans, etc. It was user friendly, and even pulled a non-fan like me in for one project. I STILL listen to my own remixes of "Only" and "The Hand That Feeds". I still own the GarageBand files to play with down the line as well. Having watched that The Downward Spiral DVD, I'm more familiar w/ the album now (other than "Closer", which I knew, as well as Maxwell's unplugged cover a la gospel version). So who knows.....maybe The Downward Spiral will end up in my library at some point in the future. Laura will still be listening to The Rainbow Children on repeat. Feh. ----- "People like Laura, or whoever, have taken it to "who's better", when it's not about NIN, or Prince. It's about the very concept. " I have addressed the (free concept) many times. You either have poor comprehension skills or you’re a socialist. I don't know what the malfunction your having is related to but you need to get a grip. | |
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meow85 said: laurarichardson said: ----- Co-Sign it is the crappiest music ever and it should be given away for free. You have got to limit your free content or fans will not pay for anything at all and then where would an independent artist like P be at. I will answer the question in the poor house. Bullshit. A basic sales model tells that free, quality product is one of the most effective ways of creating and maintaining brand(or, as the case may be, band) loyalty in a market. Homeslice has more money than I will likely ever see in my lifetime. He's not going to ever be anywhere near the poorhouse. -- But what is wrong with P as a brand? He has a hugh fan base and does not seem to be struggling on the concert circuit. He is not in the same situation that a stuggling and new indie band is in. He really does not need to give anything away for free and ultimatly it is really about a few people who keep beating this topic into the ground who simply do not want to pay for anything. They think one of their favorite artist is obligated to give them free music and video content. When in reality he is not obligated to do any such thing. You as a free independent thinking person are free not to go to his concerts or buy his music but some of you don't even have enough sense to do that much. If he was throwing another show at Paisley Park this weekend some of you would be on the first plane out to see the show (LOL) | |
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BlaqueKnight said:  Rubbish...  , you have failed to understand the concept "idea" of marketing, that's why Prince has nothing to learn from NIN (please stay on topic, see the first post )
He's past that stage of building a fan-base, they are still in that stage of creating the "Brand" Walk out on to the street, right now and ask 100 people who's Prince the ask the same 100 people who's NIN .... You have alot to learn young jedi..... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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Um, NIN's brand has been one of the biggest on the planet since "The Downward Spiral" in 1994. You do realise that more people at Woodstock 94 showed up to see NIN than ANY OTHER ARTIST? And the biggest artists in the world were playing at that festival.
To claim that NIN are still building their brand shows that you know NOTHING about them. Absolutely NOTHING. Go to nin.com and have a read of their forums and maybe you'll gain some perspective. Trent's pioneering business models and fan friendly attitude has fuck all to do with gaining new fans, it's to do with not nickel-and-diming the people who have supported him at every opportunity. Also, I'd like to make the point that on a few separate occasions, NIN have been a trending topic on Twitter. The most recent being sometime last week in celebration of the 20 year anniversary of the debut NIN album "Pretty Hate Machine" What this means for those of you who might not know - the "trending topics" are the most popular topics of conversation amongst the whole of Twitter. If you're an artist or any kind of business really, the value of having a trending topic is undeniable. It means that literally hundreds of thousands of people are talking about you at this moment in time. As much as I love and adore Prince, I haven't seen him in the trending topics once. Not even when he's had a new album out, which for the vast majority of popular artists is the most likely scenario for them to be trending. He came close when he did those 3 nights on Leno. Lots of people were talking about that, but not quite enough for it to be a trending topic. If he did a free webcast from Paisley Park for example, I'd guarantee this would be a trending topic if promoted correctly (ie on an open streaming platform like UStream).That's just one example. But I don't see him doing anything like this. |
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moderatorLondonStyle said: BlaqueKnight said: Rubbish... , you have failed to understand the concept "idea" of marketing, that's why Prince has nothing to learn from NIN (please stay on topic, see the first post )
He's past that stage of building a fan-base, they are still in that stage of creating the "Brand" Walk out on to the street, right now and ask 100 people who's Prince the ask the same 100 people who's NIN .... You have alot to learn young jedi..... ----- "He's past that stage of building a fan-base, they are still in that stage of creating the "Brand" Walk out on to the street, right now and ask 100 people who's Prince the ask the same 100 people who's NIN .... Don't waste your time I said the exact same thing 100s of times. People have their minds made up that P needs to follow NINs lead when he has no need to at all. [Edited 10/29/09 13:17pm] | |
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Militant said: Um, NIN's brand has been one of the biggest on the planet since "The Downward Spiral" in 1994. You do realise that more people at Woodstock 94 showed up to see NIN than ANY OTHER ARTIST? And the biggest artists in the world were playing at that festival.
To claim that NIN are still building their brand shows that you know NOTHING about them. Absolutely NOTHING. Go to nin.com and have a read of their forums and maybe you'll gain some perspective. Trent's pioneering business models and fan friendly attitude has fuck all to do with gaining new fans, it's to do with not nickel-and-diming the people who have supported him at every opportunity. Also, I'd like to make the point that on a few separate occasions, NIN have been a trending topic on Twitter. The most recent being sometime last week in celebration of the 20 year anniversary of the debut NIN album "Pretty Hate Machine" What this means for those of you who might not know - the "trending topics" are the most popular topics of conversation amongst the whole of Twitter. If you're an artist or any kind of business really, the value of having a trending topic is undeniable. It means that literally hundreds of thousands of people are talking about you at this moment in time. As much as I love and adore Prince, I haven't seen him in the trending topics once. Not even when he's had a new album out, which for the vast majority of popular artists is the most likely scenario for them to be trending. He came close when he did those 3 nights on Leno. Lots of people were talking about that, but not quite enough for it to be a trending topic. If he did a free webcast from Paisley Park for example, I'd guarantee this would be a trending topic if promoted correctly (ie on an open streaming platform like UStream).That's just one example. But I don't see him doing anything like this. Point taken, but again it's just a "brand" business model ... and Prince has nothing to learn from NIN business model .... a large part of any business model is marketing ... if people want to think they are not being sold to then great but that's not how the business works....you need scale or the model falls apart... i.e. you need a Fan base...
Prince has this he has nothing , nothing to learn from NIN... i'm sorry NIN is still building the fan base 20 years in the business does not mean .....unless the band was in wealth before starting out, They are mega rich after the first 2-3 years .... like all business in years 3+ is when you start to see the money... Why do you think so many great artist die with no money....or never record again or end up on Big Brother....? Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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ernestsewell said: meow85 said: Closer, ring a bell? ::vid snip:: Johnny Cash famously covered NIN's "Hurt" as his final single release: ::vid snip:: Then there's this awesome version of "Gotta Get:Closer" (This is an edited version of the whole 7 minute version on the record). That guitar and organ hook is infectious! 
I've never heard that before, but shit. That is a respectable cover/re-interpretation. I am impressed.  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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laurarichardson said: SoulAlive said: It's only a good idea when Prince does it,right? ----- WTF are you babbling on about ?? If you want to sit in the audience and film a concernt knock yourself out. It is not something I am interested in even if P allowed it. You guys need to stop using the word "fanbot" and try a new "can't read or comprehend bot" since that is what fills this board lately. There is simply no profit motive in giving loads of content away for free especially an artist like Prince who has been bootlegged to death. [Edited 10/29/09 7:26am] It's very clear you have no understanding of the sales business or the music industry if you don't understand how giving away free product (music, concert clips, etc) can only help a performer. I work in retail, another sales-based industry. In this economic climate only a handful of business aren't struggling. Guess which those are? Those that foster brand loyalty by treating their clients well, often in the form of corporate sponsorships for charities and free product giveaways. It's the same thing. [Edited 10/29/09 15:17pm] "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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LondonStyle said: BlaqueKnight said: Rubbish... , you have failed to understand the concept "idea" of marketing, that's why Prince has nothing to learn from NIN (please stay on topic, see the first post )
He's past that stage of building a fan-base, they are still in that stage of creating the "Brand" Walk out on to the street, right now and ask 100 people who's Prince the ask the same 100 people who's NIN .... You have alot to learn young jedi..... NIN is also far past the stage of having to build a fanbase. But it's 2009. The only way to maintain a loyal fanbase is to treat them well. Being an enigmatic asshole is an outdated business model. Also, I guarantee you no matter where you are more people will know who NIN are than Prince, especially if you're asking those under 40. [Edited 10/29/09 15:18pm] "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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So Prince is a brand? Do you know that when I give talks to teenagers they know Prince only because of the Dave Chappelle bit about basketball and pancakes. And that is REALLY sad. It's because Prince does NOT seem to care about continuing to build a base. He surely does not have to. But it is not good BUSINESS sense if that's what you all are truly talking about. |
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