BartVanHemelen said:

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P just gave to kick ass concerts in Paris and One great show at PP.
NIN is doing a farewell tour for a reason.

Revolution said:

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Co-Sign it is the crappiest music ever and it should be given away for free.
You have got to limit your free content or fans will not pay for anything at all and then where would an independent artist like P be at.

I will answer the question in the poor house.

ernestsewell said:

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"it's about how they handle their business with fans."

That is it in a nutshell. It is P's music and P's business. You don't have to hang around and be a fan you are free to bounce at any time.

I simply think if you give away too much free stuff fans are not going to want pay for anything and all business need revenue to survive and with CD sales in the toilet I just don't see P giving a whole lot of stuff for free.

Nevermind that I am begining to think he might be heading for semi-retirement and we fans have so many damm boots to listen to what P content is not already out on the internet that any fan can't easily get some of it for free.

BartVanHemelen said:

Why.....who the f**k is NIN ....you need to take a break, who cares what they are doing to get more fans onboard ...they need the cash ...they need to build a fan base.....Prince has a fan base built over 30 years....

Rubbish....

laurarichardson said:

I told ya'll she'd show up and say these things again. Laura, you're once again missing the point. Pay attention.
[Edited 10/28/09 9:43am]

ernestsewell said:

Dude, don't waste your time on unreasonable fanbots. Homegirl is over in the Mint/Pretty Ricky thread fanranting about Prince's "Adore"
She's certainly not going to see this as a good idea unless Prince does it.
When people idolize someone, they need to see them as greater than they actually are and they always rationalize situations into that person's favor.

LondonStyle - did you just get out of prison? If you have to ask who is Nine Inch Nails, I would HAVE to assume that you've been locked up for a while.

[Edited 10/28/09 10:16am]

BlaqueKnight said:

What world do you live in where NIN cheap marketing tricks some how come close to Prince playing 21 Nights at the o2 ? ....

Ticket and CD - promo for musicology

CD - with newspaper for Planet Earth

Who zoomin who ? .....

NIN Rubbish.....

yeh too bad they suck ass

Fan friendly artists pose full frontal nude in "Playgirl".

LondonStyle said:

How funny that you would use those examples, which indeed ARE MARKETING TRICKS to make a counterpoint.
Allowing your fans to film you freely and giving them songs to remix is far more interactive. It allows people to be part of the artist's musical experience.
That ticket/CD combo was a MARKETING TRICK to get the CD on the charts. There is no way in hell it would have charted otherwise. Get real with that mess.
CD with newspaper? Promo. He didn't do that one in the States.
NONE of that is fan/artist interaction. NONE OF IT. What Bart and Earnest and I were talking about is the CONCEPT. Its a good idea no matter who does it. It doesn't have to be NIN. It can be Madonna or Brad Paisley or Miley Cyrus or Janet or even Lil Wayne. Its a GOOD IDEA. That is the point.

BlaqueKnight said:

I stopped read here.....it was just too funny.....

NIN has no marketing team .. ..they are just very very nice boys.....

The idea is a "marketing" idea it's a trick ....stop following Bart, Earnest on the quest for holy grail of "Fan-dom"....here's a nice clip for you guys..

LondonStyle said:

I didn't watch your clip. I don't need your jokes.
I never said that the idea itself was void of marketing. I said it was a good concept. When you finish making fanbot counterpoints and and posting clips that appear unrelated to the topic, ITS STILL GOING TO BE A GOOD IDEA to people who don't need to IDOLIZE an artist. The world has changed and all of that pedestal-pushing mess is VERY DATED. The music business is in shambles. No one can afford to be idol-building.
What NIN is doing is symbolic of what MANY indie artists have done for years. Its how they build a fan base. When you don't have the money to launch massive marketing campaigns, how do you get your music across? YOU GET CLOSER TO YOUR FANS. Its much more fun to be a part of something than to sit around and watch it happen. So the CONCEPT OF WHAT THEY DID...THE CONCEPT...GET IT...CONCEPT...was a GOOD IDEA.
If you and Laura would take a break from fanranting for two seconds maybe that would sink in.

NIN

BlaqueKnight said:[quote]

LondonStyle said:

I didn't watch your clip. I don't need your jokes.

You do!

I said it was a good concept.

All marketing is a concept!

When you finish making fanbot counterpoints and and posting clips that appear unrelated to the topic

Nope the clip is on topic....it's all about "Fan's making up idea's / concepts"

ITS STILL GOING TO BE A GOOD IDEA to people who don't need to IDOLIZE an artist.

Good news for NIN and Prince then since you don't idolize them ...

No one can afford to be idol-building.

psssst.....Prince is an idol and Pop icon ...he's done that bit...


What NIN is doing is symbolic of what MANY indie artists have done for years.

Don't get fooled ....Prince is not indie he's just pretending to be... he's pop...very pop....

When you don't have the money to launch massive marketing campaigns, how do you get your music across?

Prince does have the money ...so the whole point of this thread comparing him to NIN is rubbish i said that about three post back...

YOU GET CLOSER TO YOUR FANS.

when NIN get's round to getting people to come to there house for a concert then they are close....paisley park...

So the CONCEPT OF WHAT THEY DID...THE CONCEPT...GET IT...CONCEPT...was a GOOD IDEA.

A cheap marketing idea...wow...if they had tits they could have got them out!

If you and Laura would take a break from fanranting for two seconds maybe that would sink in

Oh yeah i get it.....Prince Fan's can't understand the "Concept" of cheap "marketing" need by indie bands that will be broke in 3 years time due to all their fans downloading the music for FREE...get it...
[Edited 10/28/09 11:13am]

ernestsewell said:

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I am not missing the point and I have explained that numerous times. Maybe you need to pay attention because when you don't think the music is the point of the whole thing you have really lost all perspective

LondonStyle said:[quote]

BlaqueKnight said:

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"If you and Laura would take a break from fanranting for two seconds maybe that would sink in

"Oh yeah i get it.....Prince Fan's can't understand the "Concept" of cheap "marketing" need by indie bands that will be broke in 3 years time due to all their fans downloading the music for FREE...get it... "


Co-Sign London Style. Some folks on this board have no clue about business.

BlaqueKnight said:

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"It allows people to be part of the artist's musical experience.

Your a part of the music experience when you sit your ass in the seat at the concert !!!

I don't need to go to a concert and be bothered with filming the show. I want to listen to the music and party. I think getting a chance to go out to Paisley Park is enough fan interaction and since these people were told not to bring there cameras they all seemed to have a good time. In fact there was a time when we all went to concerts (without cameras) listened to music and sometimes actually purchased it and we were all perfectly happy.

BlaqueKnight said:

So blue! My eyes hurts!

Why should Prince allow fans to film him and give them songs to remix?

oh lawdy.... teh stooopid in this thread is painful to behold.


BlaqueKnight, you are totally 100% and utterly correct.

That said, there are folks who think that no idea is good unless Prince is doing it and that ideas that they'd previously consider bad would suddenly become good if Prince is doing it. Arguing w/ these people is an exercise in absolute futility.

NoVideo said:

Not 100%...he stated that Prince packaged CD's into his concert tix for charting purposes...a ploy.
In actuality, the charting of the CD's came after the fact...there was talk of do we or don't we count it as a sale from the industry...Prince had NO IDEA that it would count...and couldn't care less.
This whole thread is about Prince learning how to be more fan friendly...I have a whole weeks worth of memories from the Xenophobia Celebration that counters and trumps everything that you naysayers say about the way he handles fans.
Is everything roses? Hell no, but, either you're in it or not...I choose to be in it.

Revolution said:

That's some bullshit. Prince knows how the industry works, and was NOT surprised when Billboard or SoundScan popped up with a raised eyebrow about these "sales". He might not have conspired to sell records that way, but to say he didn't care is nonsense. He cared enough that instead of changing it, he went forward with it, and had a sudden Top 10 record after how many years?

But perhaps he'll spin THAT to say he "changed the record industry forever" because of that shenanigan.

ernestsewell said:

You are wrong...Prince packaged the CD as a way to get the new music in the hands of the "Purple Rain" fans (those who wouldn't necessarily buy the new CD)who were sure to buy his concert tix...it was a huge tour...nothing more was intended. If you recall, the CD was also available to be bought in stores.

The Billboard/Soundscan peeps were the ones who brought up the issue of how to count these CD's...not Prince's people. And when the decision was made (by BB/SS) to count them as sales, why should he have stopped packaging them both together, when it was already under way???


If you recall, BB/SS will not count any more CD's which are combined with concert tix as sales of the CD unless you add an extra charge for the price of the CD onto the tix price. I'd say the industry was changed because of Prince, wouldn't you?
[Edited 10/28/09 15:51pm]

laurarichardson said:

Bullshit.

A basic sales model tells that free, quality product is one of the most effective ways of creating and maintaining brand(or, as the case may be, band) loyalty in a market.

Homeslice has more money than I will likely ever see in my lifetime. He's not going to ever be anywhere near the poorhouse.

LondonStyle said:

NIN? That's Nine Inch Nails to you. They've been around for damned near 20 years, and have the millions of fans and fat bank accounts to prove it. I'm not a fan, but I am genuinely shocked you don't seem to know who they are. they're huge. They can, and have, sold out stadium tours.

Closer, ring a bell?



Johnny Cash famously covered NIN's "Hurt" as his final single release:

BlaqueKnight said:

Genuine fan/performer interaction is the smartest, and perhaps only, way for an act to survive and thrive in today's market. Doesn't matter what genre or calibre of performer it is, they'd be unwise not to at least try it.

Truth is, if he doesn't smarten his shit up, Prince is going to fall even further behind.

meow85 said:

yep. And by the way - Prince IS Indie. Indie has nothing to do with the type of music, it's how you are involved in the industry. Since he is not on a major label he is Indie. The fact that someone would not know that makes anything else they say about business wholly uninformed. Also - Laura Richardson can't help take offense at anything that credits another artist with a good move. If you want to make a real argument about marketing, then stick to the subject instead of ragging on a band that has PLENTY of fans, sold lots of records and has done quite well for themselves. I have not ONE NIN record, plenty of Prince ones, but that doesn't mean I can't look at the marketing and use of technology to share with fans as a great concept and a great opportunity for fans. Prince...yeah he has breadcrumbs for fans and that is about all. He is so far behind the times in marketing that he hurts his own potential sales. He may not HAVE to care, but his low sales and shrinking fan base have shown that no matter what the quality of music you need to MARKET...which is what WB did VERY well for him when he started out. And if you don't want to PAY for pro marketing then learn some viral stuff.

Zannaloaf said:

Ditto your whole post.

Zannaloaf said:

Even Prince himself told Scary Spice that record companies work hard, and it shows. He said they do their job well in marketing. Remember, he was pissed that Rave didn't sell well, and he blamed Clive and Arista for LACK of good marketing. (Of course the lead single blew monkey chunks.)

You're spot on with the rest of your post too, Z. People like Laura, or whoever, have taken it to "who's better", when it's not about NIN, or Prince. It's about the very concept. So many indie and major label bands are 'user friendly', and offer soundboard hookups. DMB used to do it as well. Even Dave said back in the Napster days that, "I don't need to go suing college students if they tape my show. I don't care if they trade music on the internet here and there." While he knows he's losing money on that, he also knew that as much as DMB tours, THAT is where their bread was buttered. EVERY artist makes the bucks with touring, not record sales (unless you have some ridiculously awesome record deal, which so FEW do).

To make a point about NIN: I own one NIN CD (I forgot I had bought With Teeth, which I stated earlier in the thread as to why). I never listen to it. However, I supported NIN because I liked what he was doing at that point w/ the GarageBand remixes for fans, etc. It was user friendly, and even pulled a non-fan like me in for one project. I STILL listen to my own remixes of "Only" and "The Hand That Feeds". I still own the GarageBand files to play with down the line as well. Having watched that The Downward Spiral DVD, I'm more familiar w/ the album now (other than "Closer", which I knew, as well as Maxwell's unplugged cover a la gospel version). So who knows.....maybe The Downward Spiral will end up in my library at some point in the future. Laura will still be listening to The Rainbow Children on repeat. Feh.