anyone else want to read the book now
i do

anyone else want to read the book now

i do

vainandy said:

Yeah, that whole part about how Joe made a ritual of rubbing oil all over Michael's, and the other kids, nude bodies before he beat them with an ironing cord sounded more than a little sadistic to me, and by itself probably qualifies as sexual abuse. Can't imagine he DIDN'T have a hard-on while he was doing that.

PDogz said:

You know some people do not believe that. The thought that a parent would tell a child to strip to beat them in the name of discipline sounds unbeliveable to some people, but I know for a fact that this happens in the name of discipline in quite a few black households. I think it is sick and it does give off elements of sexual abuse as well as definite physical abuse.

When Michael was a child people use to ask how can such a young child sound and convey such soul and emotions, well I think part of the answer lies in the turmoil he was experiencing behind close doors.

dearmother said:

That opportunist won't get a dime of my money.

babynoz said:

YUP it sounds kinda interesting but i'm not buying it.

How do your feel about men who are not faithful to their wives?
MJ:I dont't think it's good but I understand it. I know that is a strange answer.
You find wome fall in love with your all the time as the megastar so you don;t judge men who are unfaithful, because fometimes you'll ascribe it to women who make themselves available?
MJ:I don't judge them because women can do some things that make guys very unhappy. I have seen it with my brothers. I have seen my brothers crying, in teears and pulling grass out of the lawn with frustrations because of their wives.
Do you think a lot of their wives are interested in their success than them?
MJ:Absolutely. They were after their money. That's why I said to myself that I would never be married. I held out the longest. I stayed at home until I was twenty-seven, twenty-eight.
So part of the attraction to LMP that she had her own money and her own fame and you did'nt have to become anxious that she was interested in you for the wrong reasons?
MJ:Absolutely she did'nt take a penny [when we got divorce] she did'nt want anything. She makes about a million dollars a yer from Elvis memorabilia and selling all that stuff and she has her own thing. She is not her to take, you know.
So that means there was almost like one girl in the whole world that you could marry becaue even a rich woman would want your name. Yu needed someone with money and a name. You were down to a Presley or a McCartney or something like that.
MJ:I know Lisa was great. She was a sweet person. But it is hard to tie me down. I can't stay in one place one time so that's why I don't know if I can really be completely married all the time.
Did you want to be a father to her kids?
MJ:Yes
Do you still stay in touch with the children?
MJ:Yes and with her.
But marriage is too confining?
MJ:Yes. I don't know whether I'm disciplined enough because I am such a rolling stone. I have such a life when I am always on the move and women don't like that. They want you to be settled in one place all the time but I have to move. I have been in the same city as where my house is and I'll check into a hotel just to feel like I'm going somewhere. My house is right there. I guess I'm just moving all the time, moving.

Do you get lonely? Or is there so much going on in your life that it does'nt really happen?
MJ:Like lonely for a wife? For like a mate? Like that?
SB: Yeah
MJ: I've been through two bad divorces. I just got out of the second one.. Even when married to those women that I was married to, I'd go to bed hurting. I was hurting. I was crying last night as I went to sleep and I did'nt sleep good last night.
and I cry Shmuley, because I feel this...and I'm not trying. I'm telling you the honest truth and if your don't believe me you can ask Frank. Frank knew how I was hurting. I just was feeling all the pain of the children who suffer and I was hurting so much. That's why I was trying to reach any child I knew who had pain from[Michael mention a lttle girl who was battling cancer and whose family he met at our home] to Gavin[Michael's later acuser]. I was trying to like calling, dialing and I woke up the first thing, the first person I called was the little girl's house and she had gone already. It hurts me. But I think that's where my real love comes from,Shmuley. If I can help in that way I'm fine and I don't need the other[romantic love].
You know if I meet some girl somewhere and I think she's beautiful, which I see a lot of them, that's great. I mean, I'll go on a date or something. Nothing wrong with that. Jennifer Lpez looked awfully good the other day, she did. I was shocked' cause I never thought....She looked good.
But have you given up on women understanding you? You tend to think that children will understand you a lot better?
MJ: I'm not easy to live with in that way for a wife. I not easy and I know I'm not easy.Because I give all my time to someone else. I give it to children. I give it to somebody sick somewhere, to the music. And women want to be the center. And I remember LMP would always say to me," I'm not a piece of furniture." "I'm not a piece of furniture." You just can't..." and I say, " I don't want you to be a piece of furniture," and you know, there'd be some sick little girls calling on the phone and she'd get mad and hang up on them. And, you know, I feel that's my that's my mission, Shmuley. I have to do it.
What if you found a woman you was soft, who was incredibly soft?
MJ: Like a Mother Teresa or a Lady Diana or...That would be great. I would be perfect.
Would it be better than having to do it on your own?
MJ: Absolutely, and Lisa was great with going to the hospitals with me, and she was so sweet about that. They would tie the babies to the bed of chain children down. We'd go unchain...we'd go free all these babies. I hated that and she discovered a lot of that injustice with me. Countries like Romania and Prague, Czech and all that, Russia.
***skipping further down****
Lisa Marie was good about at least visiting. So she had no problem going and doing some of the compassionate things of giving these children love and making them feel special.
MJ: She had no problem doing that but her and I had several big arguments ' cause she's very terretorial with her children. Her children were [her major concern]....and I said "No, all children are our concern," and she never liked that coming from me. She was very angry about that. Pluse she had a fight with me one time when 2 little boys in London killed this other kidand I was going to visit them cause the queen gave them adult sentencing of life. These were like 11 and 10 year old boys and I was going to the prison and visiting them. SHe said, "You idiot. You're just rewarding them for what they did." I said" How dare you say that." I bet if you trace their lives you can find they did'nt have parents around, they did'nt have any love, nobody there to hold them look in their eyes and say "I love you,." They deserve that even if they are going to get life, I just want to say I love you and hold them. " She said, "Well you're wrong." I said "No, you're wrong." The information came out they came from broken families, were never watched as little kids, attended to. Their pacifier was those Chucky movies with the stabbings and the killings. And that's how they became conditioned to that.
Did she admit then you had a good point?
MJ: Nope, she thinks I'm rewarding bad kids.
Did she want you to be a father to her kids?
Well that was once asked of her. She was asked that question on tv and she said, "No, they have a father. Theit father is Keogh," that other guy. But I was really good to her children. Every day I'd bring them home something and they'd be waiting by the window for me and hug me. I love them. I miss them so much.
Did she get used to living at Neverland or was it too isolated?
MJ: Lisa did'nt live at Neverland. We visited Neverland the way...I lived at her house in the city and every once in a while we visited Neverland. It would be like our fun weekend.
And her children liked it?
MJ: Are you kidding me? They were like in heaven.
And you were happy to show it to them?
MJ: Mmm hmm

vainandy said:

I was actually living in Hollywood during the time the "Michael & Clifton" rumor was going around, with certain "connections" within the industry. And as rumors go, this one was widely regarded as having some truth to it. And the two were behaving very suspiciously in regards to it. But in the end, I will concede that rumors are just that: rumors. (...however, for whatever it may be worth, it's a rumor that I always believed - as it's statistically impossible for ALL rumors to be false - eventually, certain shit WILL leak).

But I'm a believer in marriage. So when your relationship with Lisa started to fall apart was it very hard? Your idealism about the family, everthing you believed in building the intimate family you always wanted, especially because you knew....
MJ: I wanted children and she did'nt.
She felt she had her kids.
MJ: Yeah, and she promised me before we married, that would be the first thing we'd do was have children. So I was broken-hearted and I walked around al the time holding these little baby dolls and I'd be crying, that's how badly I wanted them. So I was determined to have children. It disappointed me that she would'nt keep her promise to me, you know? After we got divorced she would hang out with my mother all the time. I have all these letters saying, " I'll give you nine children. I'll do whatever you want." and of course the press don't know all these stories and she just tried for months and months and I just became too hard-hearted at that point. I closed my mind on the whole situation.
So she thought maybe you could get back together?
MJ: Uh huh
But children were a major, major issue?
MJ: Of course.
She had the kids and that was it.
MJ: She had hers and I wanted us to feel like we all were one big family and have more. Just my dream is to have 9 or 10 children, that's what I want.
You're still very young. Do you think that will happen?
MJ: Yeah
But then again it means getting married again.
MJ: Yeah
Are you happy to do that?
MJ: Uh huh... or adopt.
Is it possible Michael you're attracting the wrong kind of girl because of your celebrity?1MJ: It's hard That's why it's hard, it's hard for me. It is hard. It's not easy for celebrities to be married.
Do you think that you could only really marry celebrities so that they don't need you as much?
MJ: That helps, in my opinion. And they understand what you go through. They've been there.
They help you for the right reasons, then?
MJ: Yeah, they're not after you know, WHat you've made [ the money] or you know? [singing] "That's what your are...." [ He won a Grammy for that.]
Right, right.

But it was a strip club where drag queens were stripping. She could obviously see he was gay but she went about it the wrong way. Hell, he was damn near a drag queen himself so the last thing he would want to see is something that looks like a woman stripping. Hell, that would be dyking.

She should have just tried to have taken him to a normal gay club and not even let on that she might think he's gay himself. They could just go to be "exploring" different nightlife. Once he got in there and some good looking grown men approached him, he might turn them down the first few times but I guarantee you, he would have eventually have given in. And once he got some good grown dick, he would have kicked Disneyland, the kids, and his father completely to the curb.

It's very apparent that he was gay but he would never come out of the closet or even admit it to himself because he was scared to death of his father, even as an adult. And that's not even getting into to that religion he was a part of. Madonna could have really turned him out but she went about it totally wrong.

vainandy said:

Yeah, that whole part about how Joe made a ritual of rubbing oil all over Michael's, and the other kids, nude bodies before he beat them with an ironing cord sounded more than a little sadistic to me, and by itself probably qualifies as sexual abuse. Can't imagine he DIDN'T have a hard-on while he was doing that.

thanks for postin that stilldirrty

i'm wondering about this brooke stuff now wtfff

hard to believe
[Edited 9/27/09 18:33pm]

and the sad thing is this rumor was going around when mj was but a child himself.

for those that don't know, clifton davis wrote 'never can say goodbye' which the j5 recorded in '71 or '72. that's when this rumor started to appear, back when mj was a child, not a teenager or young adult. a child..

thanks for postin that stilldirrty

i'm wondering about this brooke stuff now wtfff

hard to believe
[Edited 9/27/09 18:33pm]

Apparently he was close to being intimate with Brooke Shields but he chickened out and he wished he had gone through with it.

kibbles said:

if this is accurate..then wow

dearmother said:

yes, wow. i remember this rumor, b/c sadly, i'm old enough to recall when i first heard it. according to wiki, it was released in march 1971; michael would have been going on 13. i would say within a year or two is when i first heard the rumor. i was younger than mj, and i didn't quite get the concept of 'gay', but i understood what people were implying about there being a romantic relationship. it persisted a long while, but as i said only people who enjoyed trading in that type of gossip believed it. i don't know if it ever had any traction outside the black community, though.

What did Cindy Crawford want from you last night?
MJ: I have seen Cindy several times, and she was with other guys, and we have met up at the other functions...from afar. I thin she felt thiw was her chance to really meet me. She probably admires me. A lot of people come over. What you saw was nothing.
You have seen celebrites behave like that, like a pack of dogs chasing after someone more famous than them? It's so degrading.
MJ: Yes! It's worse
What did she talk to you about?
MJ: [Imitating Crawford] How are you? I go, I'm all right." Oh you sure your are okay?, Oh I just love your work, and I love what you do. How long are you in town? I sad, I am working her. I'm recording.
Do you think there was a romantic interest?
MJ:Yeaaaah. I kinda think so.
Was she asking you out?
MJ: Those girls flirt...they flirt. She is pretty.
It was blatant. A banker who was with us at the table said to me, Cindy Crawford, when she is up close she is just another gal. I said " But what is she doing here?"
MJ: Did you see Donald Trump come over?
Now he's an interesting man
MJ: A woman I really liked and respected was Princess Diana.
Why
MJ: Because she was classy and sincerly cared about people and children and the plight of what was going on in the world. She did'nt do it for show. I like the way she made her kids wait in line to get on a ride for something.
Can we say that there was an ever so innocent slight romantic attraction? Or do you not want to say that? Do you just want to say that you thought she was a very special?
MJ: She was a feminine kind of woman?
MJ: Very feminine and classy. She was my type for sure, and I don't like most girls. There are very few I like who fit the mold. It takes a very special mold to make me happy and she was on of them. For sure.
Because of her love of kids?
MJ:It takes a lot to find a mirror image, a mirror image. People always say that opposites attract and I think that is true, as well. But I want somebody who is alot like me, who has the same interests and who wants to help and they gotta go to hospitals with me and care about Gavin. That's why you saw LMP and me at those kind of things. She cared about stuff, too.
Did you ever think of asking Princess Diana out?
MJ: Absolutely
So why did'nt you have the never to ask her?
MJ: I never aksed a girl out in my life. The have to ask me.
Really
MJ:I can't ask a girl out.
If she would have asked you out
MJ:Absolutely. Iwould have gone. Brooke Shields aksed me out every time you saw us out together. It was her idea to go out and do it every time. I sincerley liked Brooke Shields too. I liked her a lot.
Does she like kids?
MJ: Yes, my first girlfriend, Tatum O'Neal she'd won the Academy Award for Paper Moon... I was 16, she was 13. And I was very naiive. She wanted to do everything and I did'nt want to have sex at all, because there were a lot of valuses associated with being a JW. I said, "are you crazy?" One of those was to be kind to everyone. WHen I held Tatum's hand it was just magic, better than anything, kisisng her, anything. Her, Ryan O'Neal and myself went to this club and were watching a band and underneath a table she was holding my hand I was was melting. It was magical. There was fireworks going on. It was all I needed But that means nothing to kids today. She grew up too fast. She was'nt into innocence, and I loved that.

kibbles said:

how old are you?

MJ: Now Brooke Shields, she was one of the loves of my life. We dated a lot. Her pictures were all over my walls and mirrors. I was the the Academy Award with Diana Ross and she just came up to me and said, "Hi, I'm Brooke Shields. Are you going to the after pary?" I said, "yeah, and I just melted." I was about twenty three...druing Off The Wall. I though, " Does, she know[that photographs of her are] all over my room?" And we went on the dance floor. And manm we exchanged numbers and I was up all night, spinning around in my room, just so happy. She was classy. We had one encounter when she got real intimate and I chickened out. And I should'nt have.

"Michael on Madonna. Madonna laid down the law before we went out."I am not going to Disneyland, okay? That's out." I said, "But I didn't ask you to go to Disneyland." She said,"We are going to a restaurant and afterwards we are going to a strip bar." I said, "Iam not going to a strip bar." Guys who cross-dress! Afterwards se wrote some mean things about me in the press and I wrote that she is a nasty witch, after I was so kind to her. I have told you that we were at the table eating and some little kids came up. "Oh my God, Michael Jackson and Madonna. Can we have your autograph?" She said, "Get out of here. Leave us alone." I said, "Don't ever talk to children like that." She said, "Shut up." I said, "You shut up." That's how we were. Then we went out again and went to the Acadamy Awards and she is not a nice person. I have to say it. She is not a nice person.