Harlepolis said:

the hiphop i grew up with wouldnt even consider somebody like drake part of the culture, a nickalodeon dude who sings rap?

lowkey said:

I call myself a music history buff and I don't think Drake is part of hip-hop culture either.

To me this is not about sex or its depiction. It’s about having lyrics dominate that show little imagination or forethought, usually spun over music equally as daffy.

It’s the mentality of bragging that one could do better, but knowing and/or being instructed by one’s record company that thinking and being creative beyond the preteen mentality hasn't registered nearly as profitable.

There’s way more hip hop brilliance than I’ll ever have time to discover, and here’s but one tiny example just finally released after nearly a decade wandering in this cultural wilderness:


[Edited 9/21/09 22:38pm]

Brendan said:

Q-Tip is an excellent example of Hip Hop done right.

Harlepolis said:

-
Hollywood gets condemmed by the public all the time. People need to start with themselves. Indivudual has the power to change their own behavior and the rappers need to do so. In addtion, I think a lot of the on-line hip-hop sucks ass just as bad as the popular stuff. This is a genre of music that needs a kick in the ass desperatly. Original music could be a good start.

Brendan said:

If more hip-hop leaned in the direction of this album...we wouldn't be having this conversation. This is a great album. Positive rappers need to get louder than these idiots.
[Edited 9/22/09 8:02am]

laurarichardson said:

Again, there's an emphasis on that with ALOT of young rappers. You just need to kill the generalization tune and start looking for them with an open mind.

Harlepolis said:

Yeah it ain't like there's a lot of zombies doing the same ole shuckin' and jivin'...

Harlepolis said:

----
If someone put out something decent I could have an open mind.

laurarichardson said:[quote]

Harlepolis said:

----
If someone put out something decent I could have an open mind.
In addtion, I notice that non of you naysayers will address the concept of personal responsibility.

Kid Cudi
Drake
Foreign Exchange
Lupe Fiasco
Now On
Blu and Exile
Little Brother
Q Tip
Wale
U-N-I


I mean I can go on....

bboy87 said:

For argument's sake, I will co-sign bboy's list.

laurarichardson said:

Ha!

Cinnie said:

Did you have a choice?

bboy87 said:

I could give a fuck less if hip hop is vulgar or not, so I have a difficult time filtering a list out like that.

I noticed you took Asher Roth out of there though

Cinnie said:

Did I ever have Mr. Molestache on there?

laurarichardson said:

Present your stance on this concept and we'll get talking.

bboy87 said:

Funny when you mention these guys, least some of them, people give you the side eye, lol

Yet they expect Lil' Wayne and 'em to do the same thing these guys are doing, which they're not, lol
[Edited 9/22/09 14:07pm]

Cinnie said:

Her only stance is wild pre-conceived generalization,,,,,group thinking much?

There's negative/positive in EVERY media outlet, put a one-sided emphasis in one and people will eat it up in a heartbeat.

Whats funny though is, those are the same people who'll be the 1st to jump out and take a stab at the media's credibility.

Harlepolis said:

-----
Fuck both you and Cinnie. What sorts of idiots don’t understand the concept of personal responsibility? All individuals have control over their actions unless they suffer from retardation. All of the ignorant ass rappers who are putting out this shitty music and degrading themselves as well as the black community
can knock it off anytime they want to. They just do not want to because they like getting a paycheck to act like fucking monkeys.

I do not think all rappers are doing this type of stuff but so few are putting out anything decent their efforts are almost useless. Now feel free to go back to the fantasy land you both seem to live in.
.

laurarichardson said:

Likewise

And if by "fantasy land" you mean being multi-dimensional, seeing both sides of the arguments and knowing there's actually a positive force within the popular negative facade(which you actually swollowed, like your typical passive TV worm), then by all means, I'm GLAD to be living in "fantasy land" And I certainly don't need to prove my personal responsibility to you, so you can miss me with the bullshit. Try that bait with that somebody else, honey.

The fact that you resorted to your lil' emotional tantrum shows that you have nothing to back up your generalization claim. So unless you stop the "holier-than-thou" broken record and challange me in a grown manner, then we'll converse,,,,REAL TALK.

Untill then, go kill that bug in your ass, k? Thanx for playing.
[Edited 9/26/09 14:26pm]

Talib Kweli
9th Wonder
Little Brother
Foreign Exchange
Pharoahe Monch
Wale
Kid Cudi
Blu and Exile
U-N-I
Mos Def
De La Soul
Pete Rock
The Roots
Lupe Fiasco
Now On
K-oS
PPP
Nas


just updating my list....

bboy87 said:

Lemme add these guys to your list...


Def the HOTTEST group these days IMO. I'm addicted to their song Spacefruit from their newest album

I love the fact that they're versatile, and it NEVER come across as forced or out of place.

I truly suggest you to check 'em out.

Harlepolis said:

I forgot all about Sa Ra!

I was not so much hurt as I was disappointed in her broadly sweeping the entire culture under the rug. And for those of you who still turn your noses up at Hip Hop, please take the complimentary KILL YOURSELF along with my post.

She's clearly not versed in it, like many of its detractors. They see something they don't like, understand, or attempt to know and they condemn it. The same way R&B was condemned. The same way Jazz was condemned. The same way Rock and Roll was condemned. The difference is, those doing the condemning are being elitist. I don't say certain music is terrible. I don't find myself to be a fan of folk music, but I don't call it rubbish. I just don't listen to it. The bigger insult is that she branded it all vulgar. Even certain aspects of fine art are considered obscene. Some great literature is deemed to risque for certain viewers. It's still expression. And it's not expressing hate, it's not an attempt to destroy everything decent and pure. IT'S REALISM. Daddy's little girl isn't always on honor roll. And mama's boy isn't in his room studying scripture. So why are we not at liberty to say anything about it?

I'm a Hip Hop Advocate and I don't hide it from ANYBODY. I own a decent amount of it, and I'm sure there is a PORN collection bigger than my entire stash of "vulgar" music. So am I filthy for enjoying it? I mean, does she seriously think everyone is just saying "b*tch suck this" and "n*gga this and that"? Certainly more than just "gangsters and thugs" are fans of the culture and its rap music. As a writer and a supporter, I work tirelessly to say something different. I know every other lyric in my songs doesn't contain a message to build monuments or something about Obama (give it a f*cking REST) but it does contain more than those naughty four-letter words. At the end of the day if I've had a bad day I don't rap about saving the damn trees. I'm not the Lorax. I rap about that bad day. But everything isn't meant to be some kind of whimsical lovefest that makes your heart soar. These aren't sonnets, they're rap lyrics. If I wanted Shakespeare I'd read Shakespeare (love him all the same though).

There are quality ARTISTS (because this is an art, for any doubting douches <--- Alliteration) that she has slighted with her insulting remark. Just because they aren't paraded around by urban radio or BET doesn't mean they're the only ones. (God I hate using the word "urban". Whoever got everyone into using it needs to be sniped. It isn't the new Black.) That's like saying that the only white people in the world are the ones that love blacks simply because there are fewer extremist groups. Not true either. Her lack of knowledge gives her little to no room to discuss this matter. And personally, it's a matter that would be better discussed within the community, rather than showing how you think 'all these ignorant negroes in Hip Hop ain't worth sh*t'. Just because you're not forced to enter through "colored only" doors anymore, it does not mean you can sit on your high horse and ostracize other artists that champion the causes of their generation. (Not all, but many go unmentioned.)

I'm trying to work with my elders, the artists that paved the way for me. But when you help create the same disconnection that is killing our community, it only weakens us. Why must you disassociate yourself from the young Black crowd that you don't know? They grew up on your music, they're probably fans. So you essentially turn around and say they're not good enough. Funny that it's happening in OUR race. I bet Miley Cyrus hasn't been publically denounced by anyone for making songs that her fans relate and connect to. Again I don't think my people are making strides in the right direction. More concerned about tearing each other down than building each other up. If you aren't a fan, cool. But don't make it seem like all we do is embarrass the entire Black race. I'm pretty sure the shucking and jiving did enough of that. The "Hot Ghetto Mess" BET reality shows do that pretty well too. I am personally diappointed in Gladys Knight because she showed her ignorance. She spoke on a matter that she didn't have any business speaking on. And if she wanted to talk, she should have reached out to us. Instead, she slapped us in the face.

For those loyal supporters of Hip Hop and its culture, I attempt to serve as a dignified board member. She's obviously against us. She has chosen her side. I still enjoy her music, it just sucks to know she won't enjoy mine. WAIT: Correction, I'm a lyricist. That is my craft. I'm sure she didn't write, compose and arrange all of her music, but I'm not judging her. I put a lot into the works that I record. We've all written a bad song. As an artist it is MY job to attempt to better myself. So her dismissal of the poets, MCs, lyricist and rappers in this community is BS. She doesn't sh*t gold bricks and I certainly will not allow her, or anyone else to say I'M NOT AN ARTIST! I don't respect her stance on this issue, but I still like her songs. And that's my word. Sorry to be lengthy, I love Hip Hop.

Peace, Hip Hop & Purple Rain

Goddess Cru... The Rebel's Advocate

BTW: I watched that Byron Hurt documentary when it aired. (Anything Hip Hop will usually get me caught up.) I say he targeted people. He wanted to make a specific point. So if you're making a documentary that is subject to edits, you will craft a final product that fits what you wanted in the first place. He focused on the ones he wanted to make look bad. Listen to his quasi-sarcastic tone. Specifically the portion where they discuss Nelly. COME THE FUCK ON. I'm a woman, and I am not offended by Nelly or his "Tip Drill" video. Damn man. Last I checked: women weren't barred from objectifying men. They have the right to object or objectify. But notice the slant in this program. I remember being thoroughly dissatisfied with this documentary. I'm not a feminist, but at the same time, I KNOW THAT RAPPERS AND THEIR IMAGE OF CERTAIN WOMEN DO NOT CREATE NOR TAKE AWAY FROM MY IMAGE OF MYSELF. I don't see a whore, slut or bitch in any mirror I pass. My father wouldn't let me walk around thinking that. My mother damn sure doesn't want any of her daughters thinking that. So what the hell is this saying. Rappers have given women low self esteem. Really? Is anyone forcing them to listen to their music? Buy their music? Illegally download their music? This shit is depressing. Always thinking backwards. Nevermind the positive, this focused on misogyny, homophobia and all other negative aspects of rap music. It's like watching Fox News for pro-liberal coverage. NOT FUCKING HAPPENING! Clearly this upsets me, so I'm going to retire to my bedroom. I'm only so angered because I'm passionate about Hip Hop. Better documentaries exist. Documentaries that capture the creativity and freshness that is Hip Hop culture. Unfortunately, Mr. Hurt wanted the opposite, thus we have the final product. I hope this is read with an open mind.

Peace, Hip Hop & Purple Rain

Goddess Cru... The Rebel

GangstaCru, I hope your post doesn't fly over people's heads.

And about the shuckin' & jivin' I love Ms.Knight, but she might wanna nudge Tyler Perry AKA The Second Coming of coonery(whom she worked with might I add).

Its easier to point the finger & play the morality role.

Harlepolis said:

I don't like folk music either nor do I condemn it. However, folk music stayed on the radio stations in which it was appropriate. They didn't play folk music on R&B stations and drive everything else out. They did, however, do that with shit hop. They took that cheap ass music and played it to death to the point that any form of R&B that wasn't shit hop or didn't have those weak cheap ass drum machines in it got absolutely no radio airplay whatsoever and then it got to the point that they couldn't even get a record deal. In the 1990s, there were artists like War, Cameo, and The Barkays who had been on a major label for years finding themselves having to go to small independent labels and getting no airplay whatsoever. Nothing could ever come along and change styles even if it wanted to because if it ain't shit hop, it ain't gonna get played. And before you say that happens with every decade, artists from the 1960s such as Diana Ross, The Temptations, Smokey Robinson, Marvin Gaye, Gladys Knight and The Pips, and The Four Tops were still on major labels 20 years later in the 1980s and were not only getting major airplay, but were having hits.

So it ain't a matter of live and let live because shit hop hasn't let any other form of R&B live unless it incorporates it's elements into it. And if Gladys or anyone else talks negatively about shit hop and makes generalizations, whether they are right or wrong, I'm all for it. Since it's apparent that shit hop is the cheapest form of R&B to make and that other forms of R&B are never going to get any airplay and exist alongside it, the only solution is for shit hop to die. And anything that might kill it, for right or even wrong reasons, I'm all for it.
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[Edited 10/2/09 8:20am]