Timmy84 said:

The Blues have more songs about good old-fashioned adultery than hip-hop does. As a matter of fact, most of all-time best blues songs are about "who cheating on who".

vainandy said:

It's "nigga". But I see your point.

And yes, I'm still stun over the fact that some hip-hop producers are admitting to using Fisher Price toys samples for drum programming.
[Edited 9/19/09 2:25am]

SoulAlive said:

Well I just posted the lyrics for Mavin Gayes song, "Soon I'll Be Loving You." Marvin sung about giving his then girlfriend ater his wife Janice, "some head". I'm sure Ms. Knight was jammin to that tune like you and I were back in the day.

Look, it's complicated subject all because many points of history have brought use to the point. I think it's very easy to blame in part Rap Music/Hip Hop for what's wrong or what has gone wrong in the African American community. I for one would argue those issues existed long before Rap or Hip Hop culture every came into being. What we failed to do, what I failed to do is address those cracks in the window before it shattered to the ground.

TonyVanDam said:

You never heard that Lightnin' Hopkins joint where he was basically cursing and scolding somebody out?

I will agree that Gladys did paint with a very broad brush there. The thing is, that "shit hop" is what gets promoted to the exclusion of almost anything else these days. It's part of my conspiracy theory of how the public actively participates in it's own downward spiral by buying into the negativity. Anything that appeals to people's base nature through over the top depictions of sex/violence/materialism and so forth is a very effective distraction when we are subjected to it constantly through media saturation.

I'm not in favor of censorship, but I do favor people taking a critical look at the quality of which types of art forms and media are getting the biggest promotional push because I think it's no accident that it's increasingly difficult for artists who don't conform to the corporate formula to get wide exposure. It seems that the more postive, original and thought provoking art gets little attention from a pop culture that prefers to promote vulgarity and the more vulgar, the better. Ask yourself why?



***WARNING*** Old person will now speak about the past.

Back in the day, we had our share of stupid, vulgar and vapid music but the difference is that every artist wasn't doing variations of the same tired crap and it wasn't in your face everywhere you turned 24/7. AND as VainAndy will readily tell y'all, when all else failed at least you had badass musicians playing great up tempo jams you could actually dance to.

Another question that always bugs me is how comes these discussions always condemn hip hop and not other genres of music that contain just as much vulgarity if not more? What are your thoughts on this article, for example?

http://www.associatedcont...html?cat=5

Off my soapbox for now.

Timmy84 said:

You know what? I've overlooked Lightnin' Hopkins. I need to check out a few downloads.

babynoz said:

PREACH!

...incidentally, if this is a current picture of Gladys, whatever she's had done, whether it's surgery, makeup, good lighting, or just living right; she's looking damned good!

PDogz said:

She looks beautiful, don't she?

RnBAmbassador said:

...and fatherless.

PDogz said:

And all of that because the influence of hip-hop?

You guys act like ya'll never heard of people like Iceberg Slim

PDogz said:

Again, going back to the blues days... lots of soul legends grew up fatherless.

Timmy84 said:

As if fatherless families just started yesterday, please. The % of fatherless home especially in the deep South (20's,30's...60's) are on par with today stats. Havin said that...

No matter how sexually suggestive or blatant a songs lyrics may have been back in the day, it was left up to your imagination to conjure up what you thought the song was about. That is if you caught the jest of the song. Video changed that....

=====
[Edited 9/20/09 15:32pm]

TD3 said:

Sometimes I wish we could reverse... Especially with the last part you said.

The highest teen pregnancy rates and juvenile delinquency rates were in the 1950s, a time that everyone loves to remember and try to claim as completely pure and innocent. WRONG.

Harlepolis said:

Actually, I didn't mean to imply that hip-hop was the cause of single parent households, just that too many men aren't taking responsibility for their children. Though I'll concede that I may have been tagging onto a comment that may have been making that correlation. Then, regarding Iceberg Slim: I've read ALL his books, and consider him one of my favorite authors.

Timmy84 said:

...and how tragic that it continues to be a problem today.

scriptgirl said:

James Brown and his crew shot at Joe Tex for imitating him during a concert at a local juke joint and this was around 1964-ish. Some of the Neville Brothers (mainly Aaron) dealt with crime growing up in New Orleans ghettos. Jackie Wilson was in a gang as a teenager in Detroit. Hip-hop didn't change the landscape of black life. The mainstream just promoted the ignorance of hip-hop and still do. Hip-hop's not all vulgar either. It started off as street talk. The Last Poets and Gil Scott Heron also cursed on their records but they were like Public Enemy without the sampled beats and snares.
[Edited 9/20/09 15:42pm]

PDogz said:

It'll always be a problem too.

I don't think anyone ever thought of Jackie Wilson as squeaky clean-well at least not nowadays.
Why was Aaron the only Neville brother that dealt with crime?

babynoz said:

I would agree. While I get where she was coming from, I think the term "Hip Hop" covers too much ground.

scriptgirl said:

I don't know, I know Aaron had a nasty drug habit back in the day. I heard he and one of the other brothers, forget who, had troubles but I have to reread... what I hear about the Nevilles going through was rough... OK, Charles Neville (the band's saxophonist) also went through some stuff. Don't know about Art's troubles but Cyril nearly got killed one time with some guy using a razor to cut his neck.
[Edited 9/20/09 16:02pm]

Harlepolis said:

...incidentally, I hear "Mama Black Widow" is coming to theaters in 2011, can't wait for that!!!

Timmy84 said:

If they had only listened to me! I agree with those who've said videos made music all too "common".

Oh well, as Spiro Agnew said, "Were totally f&#@! because once the toothpaste is out the tube, it's hard to get it back in".

TD3 said:

Right.

TD3 said:

so true and let's not forget "You Sure Love To Ball".It's hard to imagine Gladys not liking that song,lol.
[Edited 9/21/09 4:54am]

kenlacam said:

I never thought the time would come so soon that I would witness the generation gap taking place before my very eyes. I'm guess I'm old now too

SoulAlive said:

Regarding "Vulgarity": It may not be about the subject matter as much as the choice of words and delivery. Nevertheless, what's "vulgar" today, will be considered "passe" tomorrow.

Perhaps the distinction Gladys was trying to draw was: Marvin may have sung about giving his girl some head, but not about "eating her pussy out", or that "You Sure Love To Ball" was not "You Sure Love To Fuck". That's how I interpret what Gladys was trying to say anyway.

Certainly all love songs (or songs in general), yesterday and today, incorporate a certain amount of sexuality. I mean dayum, we're human beings, and we are sexual creatures. But when contrasting the lyrics of many of today's songs (Hip Hop, Rock or whatever) against the songs from Gladys' days, I can easily see where she came to the "vulgar" conclusion. Though I also understand that many see Gladys' comments as an attack against Hip Hop, the form of music embraced by many of today's youth.

But as I see it, 20 years from now, there will be some popular movement within the youth culture that will be raunchier than anything even the most streetwise 14 year old of today could imagine. By that time, young stars will probably have devolved to beating-off in their videos, while busting nutts to the beat, lol. And it neither will go unchallenged; a 50 year old 50-Cent will be trying to say that the music of that day has gone too far, and the kids will be trying to tell him to sit his old ass down, lol (...in fact, they're telling him THAT now, lol).

Remember, back in the day, network television wouldn't even air Elvis from the waist down... because he was considered "vulgar". The beat goes on.

PDogz said:

I remember a few years ago,a local radio station played Marvin's "Let's Get It On" and when it was over,the DJ (who was in her late 40s) said "See guys? We had "sexual songs" back in our day,but it wasn't all sleazy like the stuff you guys have NOW"