Riverpoet31 said:

Riverpoet there is something seriously wrong with you

Riverpoet31 said:

if u can argue a point without taking a jab at MJ personally then people can take you more seriously...you was right in some points of this argument...but why must you say so foolishly that he has to be sad and pathetic...if its one thing that MJ said that was jus the god awful truth...is that no other artist could have been through what he has been through as an artist with his career and would have survived as long as he did...you dont respect MJ as a musician..okay thats your opinion...like someone said earlier...there are tons of artists who have came forward and said a lot of them wouldnt even be in the business if it wasnt for Michael....MJ was definitely a genius in the studio....there are stories from engineers and producers who worked with him and talked about furious they were from working with michael cause he was such a perfectionist with recording...during the Thriller and Dangerous Sessions Bruce Swedien had mentioned there were times when MJ would run out of the studio crying over music if it didnt sound right...theres always the argument just because MJ does not play a million instruments like Prince it makes him less of a musician which is the dumbest argument ever...Though MJ does not play many instruments...doesnt make him less of a musician...but one thing however MJ is definitely a better songwriter...a lot of Princes music I must admit I really do not understand cause a lot of it to me makes no sense....no disrespect to Prince cause I think hes brilliant...but the funny thing about ur argument is how u said that MJ was obsessed about being a big artist and record sales etc....Prince Imo was the same way until as years progressed he became less and less significant and less popular among music fans..MJ looked at the bigger picture..of course he enjoyed making music and performing like every other dedicated musician...but he wanted EVERYONE to hear what he had to say...he wanted to touch people...he wanted to spread a message....he proved that music was more then jus setting the mood or wanting to dance...it could change lives...it could influence people to want to change the world...and love each other and come together.

For all the cats who are downplaying Mj's legacy as always .....Have some respect,Stop being ignorant and grow up.

A bunch of haters typing bullshit on a message board won't change anything, or in other words won't re-write history, Mj is right there with the greats if he was not the greatest since he was the only westren artist who created music and dance that reached to every race. culture and language , and if you deny this then you are seriously a hater...Notnhing more , nothing less.

who's here gonna take what some of you say seriously? I mean . some of you really reached to the level to say that Mj is britney spears, only an ignorant would make such a statement.

Mj was a great musician and an entertainer ....deal with it, he was responsible for writing the majority of his songs , he was a genuis composer something that many artist truly lack including prince.

Riverpoet31 said:

You just saying what a typical prince fan would say, so typical, I have heard this broken record like millions times on here, whether you are like or not , Prince isn't a great composer, never was, he is a great lyricist but not a great composer.

The funny is that these uncreative records that have not artistic values (which is of course an absurd ignorant comment) still fresh till this day and people still lisenting to them till this day which completely refute your theory.

throwing bullshit albums in my face won't do anything,Prince has always been responsible for releasing bullhsit albums every year,Thank you , i don't need an album every year, you've got to be kidding me if you think that the last prince albums have any artisic values and creative, he is man of quantity ,while Mj was a man of quality , Prince 's music catalogue is flawed filled with unimportant forgetten albums while Mj nearly had a perfect music catalogue and body of work, Both are different but still both are creative, don't try to shit on Mj to make prince the superior one , prince doesn't have a perfect body of work.

i dont get why people are being so critical of this clip?

we're lucky to have seen mj on stage at all in his condition
dude weighed like 105 lbs probably with a bmi of 15
he stopped eating
he had a history of fainting aka panic attacks, being out of breath
he was on drugs
he clearly hated himself


and yet he's still dancing for us and trying to get his shit together on stage. it's sad.

"omg he didnt carry that note right"

wtf are you kidding me

pretend mj dropped dead after the bad tour

now who's better prince or mj??? eh! i know my answer

i guess i kind of agree with river, i need to reread this thread
[Edited 9/26/09 11:50am]

Can some one bring in the violins now?

seeingvoices12 said:

PurpleMedley122 said:

I love your response, at least you didn't attack me like many fanatics do

This is my opinion, as you can see, I never criticized prince the person like many prince fans here do to Mj, this is not my business, but he never amazed me as a composer, he is a brilliant lyricist but not a brilliant composer, the majority of his melodies are weak:
[Edited 9/27/09 9:40am]

Wow the singing was great, but WOW is the man looking frail! Can't he eat? .

Why is this thread turning into yet another Prince vs.MJ argument? Seriously,why is Prince's name even brought into this discussion? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this thread is about the brief clip of MJ rehearsing "Human Nature".This has absolutely nothing to do with Prince or any other artist.Stay on topic! We've already had numerous Prince vs.MJ threads,and it doesn't get us anywhere.It's just a matter of personal opinion.How can you "debate" opinions? A person is gonna believe what they wanna believe.

SoulAlive said:

you can no doubt direct this question to Prince fanatics , they are the ones who continously bring prince into the discussion, as for me, when i see bullshit , I have to respond.

Riverpoet31 said:

MJ never wanted to beat the album sales of Thriller, he said he wanted each album to be better than the previous. Being better doesn't necessarily mean selling more, but having more creativity in songs. Many people agree when I say that OTW was better than Thriller, but Thriller got so much fame because of the "short films" he was coming up with (after the Thriller video came out, the album was literally selling a million copies a week).

I am a Prince fan, but not a Prince fanatic / 'fam'.

The reason why i brought him into this discussion is that i simply think he is a better artist then MJ. Just as I consider The Beatles (in terms of musical diversity, and especially songwriting), Sly Stone (in terms of 'mixing' black and white music styles), Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis, Otis Redding and many others as betters artists then MJ.

I constantly see MJ-'fams' trying to 'upgrade' his artistic qualities / importance to a level that simply isnt realistic. He might have been the most popular, but he certainly isnt the best in terms of songwriting, musicality, creativity, grooves, innovation and soul.

I simply have to respond when MJ-fanatics lose sense of reality, and mistake his commercial succes with artistic efforts / importance: MJ has never written a pop-song as good and 'rounded' als Eleanor Rigby, he has never dared to cross the stylistic borders a song like Crystal Ball did, he has never funked as thoroughly as Thankyouforlettinmebemyselfagain did, he has never sang his guts out like Otis did, he never recorded a Kind of Blue or Sketches of Spain.
He was on top of his game in his own niche: mainstream dance-pop, he did a good job in that field, but he is simply is a superficial artist.

It are the MJ-fanatics who have to come to grip with reality, not the other way around.

That is plain nonsense of course.

What is so 'genious' about singing ultra-naive lyrics about 'heal the world' / 'save the children'?

What is so 'genious' about always going for MOR-melodies, instead of trying to dare / push yourself a bit?

Prince can sometimes be very lazy when it comes to writing lyrics and melodies, but MJ has NEVER written a song as deep as If i was your girlfriend, or as playfull as Raspberry Beret.

The songwriting by The Beatles pisses all over MJ's, in terms of quality, depth and diversity.

MJ's melodies (and lyrics) are a mixture of R&B and pop, ultra-catchy maybe, but mostly superficial too, no real soul-shedding, no original insights, he is 'playing' with emotions and feelings, instead of really expressing them.

It seems MJ-'fams' like to fool themselves by so much superficiality, thats your choice, I would say. Its not mines, that simple it is.

Riverpoet31 said:

Childhood?
Stranger in Moscow?
Keep the faith?
Can you feel it?

I guess it's all subjective.

it's one thing to say mj was stunted, hit a wall but riverpoet you're making it out like he NEVER had any artistic merit which is just false

i like billie jean more than ANY prince song

"wear something dangerous, girl..."

He wasnt even attracted to girls, or women.

So how can 'Stranger in moscow' be taken seriously?

Riverpoet31 said:

I hate arguments like this.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your general point, as everyone has their own opinion of genius. But EVERYTHING can be whittled down to nothing if you get right down to it. I also find it odd that you mention Raspberry Beret and If I Was Your Girlfriend to back up your point, out of all the songs in his catalog (those are two songs I love, by the way, I just find them odd choices to say that MJ has never done anything better than them). But that just goes to show how subjective music can be.

And as someone mentioned, songs like "Stranger In Moscow" and "Earth Song" are above superficial to me, they are every bit as genius as the songs of Prince's you mentioned in my book. Both musically and lyrically.

I am not saying MJ had no artistic merits.

He just didnt have the artistic merits dozens of other artists had.

And IMO Billie Jean is an overrated song, there isnt much melodic and harmonic difference between the verses and chorusses. It just drags along.
1999 by Prince for example is a better composition.

"Earth song" is as naive and superficial as can be.

MJ in Peter pan mode.
[Edited 9/27/09 19:09pm]

Riverpoet31 said:

prince has some pretty shitty songs. In fact, he hasn't made any good music since the eighties.

Riverpoet31 said:

maybe not lyrically but as a performer singer dancer 100000x yes yes he did

so like mj singing whos loving you

he didnt write the song and he didn't experience any of those emotions

does that mean it has no artistic merit

people could feel the song, it's bullshit that you have to experience things to be able to sing about them effectively

childhood is an example of all that went wrong with mj, i hate that song

Thats nonsense bootylicious.

"Earth song" is the example of some naive person who thinks the world will become a better place by thinking / singing things like 'love the children' and 'if we all love eachother, it will be fine'.
MJ was utterly naive, unrealistic, simplistic. Projecting the mindstate of a 5 yo kid.

The kind of pop-lyrics that never make a difference, because they are so far out of touch with reality.

What is actually more shocking to see is people putting their faith in that kind of misplaced / twisted naivite. Grow up, act your age please.

Rinluv said:

Dang it, you beat me to it! I hope he wasn't really thinking that was some cool move.

As for his voice, he sounded pretty good in that little clip, but he looked so weak physically, I don't think he could've sustained it for very long along with dancing.

Serena said:

And ofcourse that dance doesntt go very well with that song... or that moment.

Riverpoet31 said:

how bout you grow up. You come in ever mj thread and talk shit. All the time with nothing to back it up with. A bitter prince fanbot still stuck in the eighties. What is up with some of you prince diehards anyway? Many mj fans including myself respect and like prince and view him as a legend. I've never seen a mj fan make fun or be so fucking disrepectful to prince fans like prince fans are to mj fans. Fucking ridicolous. I've seen you in other threads talk down and talk shit and name call mj fans. Well that's typical behavior of prince diehards. I mean really so fuckin stuck up. I went to a prince concert back in 04 with my friend and we got asked why the hell were there because we were young at the time ( i was 18 and she was 19). WTF is the problem with us being at the concert? This is not the eighties anymore besides this rivalry between mj and prince was made up by prince diehards. They both respected each other and view each others as legends. MOVE ON PEOPLE. Now it's fine to have your opinion about mj as music artist...to each his own but really with the name calling and insults, Grow the hell up.