BklynBabe said:

Her momma finally went old skool on her ass! Back in the day on this site alot of us were saying "where is her momma during all of this???" .We cited Natalie Cole's momma as the classic example of "I'ma snatch'cho ass up & take you to court and lock you in rehab if I have to "

That's what a momma supposed to do!

Ottensen said:

What Maria Cole did was GANGSTA! She clearly KNEW her daughter was in a pile of shit and despite their shitty relationship, Maria and her fam did all they could to save Natalie. Thankfully Natalie listened.

O is starting to get on my damn nerves Who cares what or who made Whitney get help. The great thing is that she did get intervention and appears to be the better for it.

nurseV said:

The audience.

Harlepolis said:

even worse

daPrettyman said:

How, by starting up an "I Hate Men" tour?!?

Granted, Bobby Brown is no angel. But Oprah is really getting f***ing ridiculous these days. Mid-life crisis at its worst.

Graycap23 said:

Ask Clive Daivs. He's infamous for make Whitney's image as "less black" as possible. He used that tactic in the 80's.

TonyVanDam said:

Not this shit again

I STILL don't see whats so damn racially alienating about Whitney,,,,I mean, ya'll could school a dame on something here, coz really I'm trying to find out.

I still at the grieve people gave her in the late 80s/early 90s about her "not having rhythm" I mean to give it that much emphasis & importance on press,,,,esp in the black press, blew my mind.

TonyVanDam said:

I have to agree. It's like Bobby Brown's this monster every time they talk about him, I gotta see a transcript of this shit, lol

TonyVanDam said:

Hmm... You may have a point about that.

Timmy84 said:

Now this I agree with...

If I remember correctly, the groupie at the beginning of the relationship wasn't Bobbay he didn't give a shit about her, his aims were Janet & Madonna.

I hate how the media STILL portray Nippy as the helpless wholesome princess who got forced into somebody else' mess,,,,,while in reality, it was self-made.
[Edited 9/11/09 16:51pm]

Harlepolis said:

Years ago, there was a classic VH-1 Behind The Music episode about Whitney. It went into full details from different eyewitness accounts of how Clive Davis wanted to market Whitney to the crossover pop mainstream. Whitney couldn't sing too soul (READ: Phyllis Hyman) or look "too black" (READ: Patti LeBelle, Chaka Khan) in order for Clive's masterplan to work.

Harlepolis said:

Whitney wanted that dick. I think even SHE admitted it.

TonyVanDam said:

I think it's E! True Hollywood Stories and yeah they wanted her to be the next Diana Ross or Dionne Warwick though her voice was more in Patti's, Chaka's and Aretha's at the time.

TonyVanDam said:

I understand. I don't dispute the fact that Clive Davis have a "Lena Horne" complex,,,,what I 'm saying is, I don't think it effected her that much and judging from her fan base(then & now) it seemed like he missed his aim

The whole (pop=less black) has always been absured to me. Does that mean Prince/MJ's heydays were "less black"? Because that surely was their main objective,,,,,hell, even Marvin Gaye longed for the pop mainstream scene.

I don't see why Nippy gotta be the one singled out as "less black".

Timmy84 said:

Them too!

I always wonder how different Whitney's career would've been if she was produced by Rick James, Prince, OR Jam/Lewis. Then again, Clive hardly knew how to market soul OR The Funk during his post-CBS Records career.

Harlepolis said:

You know why I think Whitney gets singled out?

Remember how people were starting to get back to that Afrocentric shit during the Golden Age of Hip-Hop and they felt some black musicians who were singing pop were "selling out". Because of what Whitney accomplished, they felt her albums had not shown what she brought to the stage because she got the same criticism Diana Ross got in the '60s and '70s. So for that, they felt Whitney had sold out, she wasn't the only one but I guess it's to make a point. They come up with some funny shit as to how that black artist sold out or became less black.

And I definitely recall some Motown singers (Marvin, Levi Stubbs, etc.) wanted to be crooners and sit on stools and be like Nat King Cole but because they weren't selling, both of them settled for R&B and it helped them become stars.

Harlepolis said:

You also need to see "that incident" on the 1988(?) Soul Train Music Awards, where poor Whitney was getting booed for winning any award that night. Her second album Whitney was consider "too pop" for that audience.

In a twist of fate, THIS was also the same night when Whitney notice a grown-up Bobby Brown for the first time, during the height of his successful Don't Be Cruel album. But that's another thread.....
[Edited 9/11/09 17:33pm]

TonyVanDam said:

Yeah I actually do remember that and that was 1989, the same year MJ got the Heritage Award from Eddie Murphy, the same night he was also called "the king of pop, rock and soul" I believe also. And yes, I remember Bobby Brown exploding on the stage soon after Whitney was booed.

TonyVanDam said:

No, it was because she was an overkill(lets hope the same fate meet Beysus ). It has nothing to do with her being "less black"

But Timmy, I see your point about the late 80s/early 90s movement

I think we share much of the same blame why labeling/limitations get re-inforced.

Harlepolis said:

Yeah we're definitely guilty of it. But yeah you can credit overkill for Ms. Houston. "Oh Lord, I turned on my damn TV and she was all on the commercials for Diet Coke AND Coca Cola, if I hear ONE MORE VERSE of 'Where Do Broken Hearts Go?' I'm gonna shoot the damn TV!"

Timmy84 said:

Prince was accused for the very same thing during his post-Purple Rain career, and his backlash was never as bad as Whitney's.

And you know what was worse for Whitney? George Micheal's Faith album was THE first ever #1 album on The Billboard R&B Charts by a white male artist. Yes, there were plenty of black folks that thought his artist was more "black sounding" than Whitney's.

TonyVanDam said:

That's how I recognized George because he was on BET every time between 1987 and 1989.

Timmy84 said:

Fuckin' BET

And you couldn't make them play a Lenny Kravits song for all the money in the world

Harlepolis said:

For real... I had to go to MTV to find his ass.

Timmy84 said:

No, no. It was THIS:


http://www.youtube.com/wa...L&index=12

Chocolate Valley Girl image and all!

TonyVanDam said:

Vainandrea is gonna write this down somewhere

TonyVanDam said:

Oh yeah I can believe it. She was definitely going with that, "Like this is so fabulous..."

Nah it was that "I Wanna Dance with Somebody" vid with her sporting the same blond curly wig Beyonce was sporting during the Survivor period.

Timmy84 said:

I'm so NOT playing that video. And yes, that demon-infested Beyonce did borrow that style of wig.