kibbles said:

Yeah even ASPIRIN can kill you if you overtake it or someone over-prescribed you with it.

Timmy84 said:

Yeah he probably just wanted to sit back and relax but I always felt he could
have wrote and produce for people and get money like that and yeah I agree his
death comes off less shocking everyday smh.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Negligible homocide dammit... THAT IS WHAT IT WAS if the reports are true that he gave propofol. I don't care how many times MJ got it before... it was THAT time that stopped his heart. Real Talk!

mimi07 said:

kibbles said:

Dr. Death is from Michigan. And you are right he just got out of prison for assisted suicide even though the people made video tapes and signed documents (if physically able to sign) that it was their own wish to be assisted in suicide. if MJ's doctor get off LAPD and LA DA are full of it... they need to bring Murray to Michigan!

prodigalfan said:

I went to school in michigan. Probably from detroit or flint...those dudes there are CRAZY.

suga10 said:

no no no and more nos. It could be anything but not suicide. Michael loved his kids too much to do something like that. i'm sure he was depressed but suicidal....NO NO NO NO.

kibbles said:

Oh and bravo on the point that he hid what the "bleep" he gave MJ to first responders. If MJ had a chance... by not telling exactly what, how much and when med was given... that omission could make a difference in life or death.
Some meds can be given that can counteract the affects of opiates (etc) almost instantly!
But if anyone who has worked with propofol knows.. this med begins to clear the system in less than 3 - 5 minutes after being shut off. So chances are MJ dies while this med was still being pumped into his body. By the time he was discovered... he was long dead. Sorry so blunt but it is the truth.

God bless MJ and his family. It really is such a tragedy.

NpgSoldier said:

no no no no and more nos. It is not suicide and it has not been ruled a suicide from day 1.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

but in your scenario, if the starving dog stole the meat guess what.... IT IS STILL STEALING!

Even if MJ gave him the gone and paid him BIG money to pull the trigger... Murray pulled the trigger. That is the crime. You can't spin this any other way. And Murray doesn't get a pass.... it is not like he was a homey from the hood who didn't know what the f8ck he had... HE KNEW! and he KNEW the risks.

prodigalfan said:

Here is what I think. If it was Dr. Murray, it was going to be someone else. Michael had been taking drugs for years, so for the authorities to only focus on him is a little weird. I never thought that MJ would live to a ripe old age. One of the reasons why celebs do what they do, is because people are afraid to tell them NO! When you work for a celeb, it seems like your integrity goes right out of the window.
[Edited 9/4/09 18:19pm]

shorttrini said:

Exactly. This is what leads me to believe the LAPD are going to indict OTHER doctors on charges. If it was that simple, Murray would've been arrested LAST MONTH.

kibbles said:

you really think so?

Timmy84 said:

I was looking at his press conference for his O2 concerts, that he held back in March. Michael was HIGH at that conference!!, so, I am willing to bet, that others were in on it....Not Just Murray.

shorttrini said:

Yeah and MJ hired Murray in May.

Timmy84 said:

Really? I did not know this.

mimi07 said:

Bingo! There is your answer. This is most likely where MJ first got Propofol for sleep.

shorttrini said:

Yep, he had just hired him. Who knows what he was doing between March and May unless it was just seeking dancers and musicians out.

shorttrini said:

i never understand the so-called logic behind this statement, and i see people making it all the time. well, duh. yeah, if it wasn't murray, it would have been someone else. and your point? if it was someone else, we'd be talking about how that person is looking at manslaughter charges.

as i and many other people have pointed out, it doesn't matter what other drugs were in mj's system, assuming there were. did you not see the coroner's report? it stated mj died from propofol overdose with the sedatives that murray gave him as underlying factors in his death. DRUGS MURRAY GAVE HIM. whether mj had aspirin or oxycontin or heroin in his system, that's not the point. he died from what murray gave him.

honestly, people, come on!

Then arrest him. If we post by Christmas and Murray ain't arrested, I'm convinced the LAPD is just slow as fuck.

prodigalfan said:

exactly. assuming mj had a chance (and that's a really big assumption at this point), the paramedics likely had the anecdote for propofol, and if murray had nothing to hide he would have told them *immediately*.

i have read that other doctors are skeptical of murray's claim that mj asked for propofol after those sedatives. one, they say even if he wasn't completely asleep, mj would have been very groggy. what doctor would take seriously the rantings of a heavily sedated man? and two, it was 10:40am according to the doctor when he administered this last bit of propofol. mj was due at rehearsal in a few hours. why go back to sleep at that time? i just don't have any reason to believe this happened the way murray claims.

dearmother said:

yes. as rupert everett said, mj was a freak. he was a freak b/c he didn't ever comform to the limited expectations that exist in this country for certain people. even if he'd given a good concert, it would have been downplayed and ignored in the press, just like his other success tours had been, his fans called lunatics, blinded by his celebrity, blah, blah, blah.

he was painfully insecure and he allowed the hate to seep in from all corners of his 'rhinosceros skin'. it was just all consuming. all my life i've heard hateful, hateful comments about mj - have been hearing them since the 70s - and in retrospect, i'm surprised mj accomplished as much as he did with the forces against him.

kibbles said:

I think it was all too much for Mike at the end.

kibbles said:

If you asked me, Michael died as a result of YEARS of drug abuse. Remember, he had been taking drugs for all types of ailments, for many years. For people to just single out Murray, is in a way, more of a miscarriage of justice than anything else. I don't believe for a second that MJ just started taking Proporfol, when he met Dr. Murray. I think he started taking it way before he ever met him. Michael was very familiar with the drug and it's affects, due to the amount of surgeries he has undergone. My point is that every doctor that attended to Michael, should be held accountable for the man's death.

shorttrini said:

yes but the man that actually killed him should get most of the blame, don't u think. no one is excusing the other doctors but michael passed because of direct actions from murray

shorttrini said:

but we don't need to ask you or speculate. the coroner performed the autopsy and released the findings on what killed mj. the preliminary report does not state he died of long term drug abuse or propofol abuse. it says he died of an overdose of propofol and sedatives administered by injection.

we're singling out murray b/c he's the one who injected him with the drugs that killed him. no, not every doctor should be held accountable for mj's death. they should be held accountable for dispensing drugs improperly or under an assumed name. no one has said that mj was unfamiliar with the dangers. but so, too, was murray, and ostensibly told mj he knew what he was doing and then injected too many drugs into mj's system causing his death.

kibbles said:

AND THERE IT IS! I don't believe it either. MJ got propofol drip the night before and Murray fell asleep sometime during the night. When he woke up, the patient was dead. The end. All this other stuff makes it sound like it was just a few minutes lapse. I will bet MJ took his last breath hours before he was found at 830 or so. I say 830 or so because it appears Dr. Murray spent more than an hour of trying to fix things before he alerted people that MJ was gone.
[Edited 9/4/09 22:29pm]
[Edited 9/4/09 22:30pm]

You didn’t read my post correctly. Michael’s doctors didn’t care about their ethics and the law. They were more interested in keeping Michael happy by prescribing most of the drugs that he never needed in the first place (a pill for loneliness?). He was their employer and the decision maker and they agreed with his poor decisions without questioning him as long they were getting paid.

Example: a man gets lung cancer or liver cancer from too much smoking or drinking and he has himself to blame and no-one else for his choices. Same thing applies to Michael for taking prescribed pills.

Besides all that, a serious investigation has to be carried out, check out the previous doctors he had and also question AEG as they may have something behind this. I will post the questions next time on this thread when my mind is clear as I am tired and going to bed.

Superstition said:

I cannot understand, why the press tries to show MJ the addict? The person who at all did not use tobacco, the person meaningly refusing from anaesthetising (not to get to dependence) and proud of they be recollect sufferings Michael when it was bitten by a spider … the Person which in the books accurately showed the negative relation to drugs and sponsoring some actions against spread of drug addiction – the ADDICT? It as: a bee against honey?

Michael Jacson always seemed me extravagant, but the clever person.

The adult, mature, taken place, carried away by the creativity, the person possessing the reputation to enter into a drug dependence it is possible only either force, or a deceit. Besides, propofol and demerol – preparations not for a dream, and for a narcosis. The narcosis does not replace a dream! The narcosis does not give rest!

Now about become well-known the doctor Murrey. It in general live somebody saw? Or it is the phantom? With the thought up biography, clinic, relatives …. About which, besides, that they are it is not known more. At me sensation that something here not so …

Just my thoughts:
Although I haven't followed it at all, I think this case is bigger than being just about the doctor. If the doctor would be convicted alone, that would mean he is an escapegoat. Since there are pharmacies and possibly other doctors involved a case should be made about corruption and malpractise in the medical/paramedical field involved in general.
Was Michael Jackson guilty too? That's an interesting question. Michael Jackson was not a doctor or anything so he would follow his doctor's advices. Having said that, as someone who was obviously suffering from a chronic condition or disease he should have definitely researched for information concering his condition and the meds given to him. Any such search would easily show that propofol is dangerous and not to be given at home. Also it seems obvious that MJ was addicted to painkillers. Addiction to certain painkillers (especially agents which have antidepressant properties as well) is a real disease by itself. A lot of people are taking strong painkillers to overcome types of strong pains and then end up with even stronger pains and generally non-functional just because of the addiction to the analgesic agent. It certainly seems that that was MJ's case too. Does he have a responsibility at that scenario? He certainly does although that does not minimize at all the trained doctor's failure to properly treat his patient.
The pharmaceutical industry is corrupt even when it is working within the limits of the law, nevermind when it is working outside those limits as in MJ's case. It is the industry which develops new meds, does the clinical research on them, educates the doctors about them and then keeps doctors on its payrol with a minimum and extremely slow oversight from the FDA (which itself is depended on the pharmaceutical industry for some of its budget). As a result sometimes not even well-intentioned doctors have the whole picture of a med's side-effects profile. There are more people dying in the USA every year from medicines' side effects than from any other disease and condition except the heart attacks.
Despite that the pharmaceutical industry has managed to create a culture which says that whole classes of medicines are generally safe and should be taken to fight symptoms which in many cases have either not been properly investigated or they don't require treatment at all. The painkillers and their relatives (psychotropics, antidepressants, NSAIDs, corticosteroids etc) are the most important class of meds to fall in this category, newer classes of antibiotics is yet another one (follow link on my signature).
So this case instead of being used just to convict someone for a celebrity's passing should examine the responsibility of everybody involved including MJ himself because that would say a lot about the western culture and attitude towards medicine and the practices of certain members of the medical and paramedical field.
[Edited 9/5/09 2:44am]
[Edited 9/5/09 2:46am]