Timmy84 said:

the family won't let that happen trust

i believe the lapd has evidence of manslaughter but then want to make sure they can get a conviction and possibly 2nd degree murder. even tho i think the lapd is corrupt they know they can not afford to screw up a high profile case especially when the world is watching.

mimi07 said:

Well I don't put it past them to screw up. They already did that earlier, lol

kibbles said:

i agree, this is automatically manslaughter to me but adding those other things increases things to 2nd degree murder and not to mention after he got his lawywer his lawyer then got a lawyer.

*edit
[Edited 9/4/09 11:59am]

medion said:

Wrong. Jackson was fully responsible for his actions, but so were any doctors who got the glimmer of green in their eye and turned their back on their ethics and abiding by the law.

Yeah, Jackson was probably shopping around for drugs. Why should that excuse the person who caves in and gives them to him?

I mean, this isn't a simple case of someone giving him a prescription, we're talking about a guy injecting him with all kinds of shit and basically doing an illegal job.
[Edited 9/4/09 11:59am]

mimi07 said:

I think it also depends on WHAT manslaughter charge they give him. Involuntary, he can get 10-20 years with some years out on parole, voluntary, about 50 years, no chance on parole... I agree this case has some screws loose tho... still don't make the LAPD any less guilty for not using their force to investigate it further. They're making Murray to be this big bad guy that put a gun to their heads saying "don't pronounce him dead!" So I don't trust them yet.

Superstition said:

If someone has a history of handing someone a gun and then grabbing their hand to try and get them to pull the trigger, that should be taken into account.

his lawyer got a lawyer ahahah

is that common?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

um yeah dude died he paid the price already

dearmother said:

on tv they said it was uncommon

but everything with this case is uncommon.
[Edited 9/4/09 12:09pm]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

as i told your mj-hating self in the another thread, dr. murray is going to face murder charges.

mj could have begged for the drugs. murray was not obligated to give them to him. i hurt my leg in a hiking accident. the doctor gave me a really nice prescription for tylenol with codeine. when i asked for more, he said no. see how that works? patients don't dictate to doctors, it's the other way around.

obviously, you think mj is a lowlife drug addict that deserve what he got. but as you know, we prosecute the lowlife drug dealers all the time. and at the end of the day, that's what this doctor is, no more no less. i have a half sister who's an addict. can't say that i condone her life choices, but do you really think i wouldn't want to see those responsible for the sale and distribution of drugs prosecuted? i don't know why you wouldn't want to.

when the doctor gave mj the propofol,the doctor was then OBLIGATED TO WATCH HIM KNOWING THE UNSTABLE PROPERTIES OF PROPOFOL. he didn't. he left, he came back to find mj dying, then he did a whole lot of dodgy things as others have just pointed out in this thread. couple that with the fact that he had already administered other sedatives in a short space of time. what is it about that that you can't grasp?

a scapegoat, you say? for what? murray administered the drugs that killed mj, not any other doctor. the coroner's report didn't say mj died of demerol injection, as it is alleged klein gave him. even if mj was hooked on oxycontin that he got from others, the report doesn't say that there were any other drugs which contributed except the drugs murray gave him.

would you hire murray to be your doctor or like to see him be a doctor to other people? why would you want someone who's ethics are so easily compromised in charge of the lives of others? why does this guy deserve a medical license?

but no, you want this guy to skate b/c you don't like mj. that's some major league hatin' there.

dearmother said:

This is Los Angeles, uncommon is normal over there.
[Edited 9/4/09 12:09pm]

I don't think MJ deserved death. MJ bought the weapon, loaded the gun and threw incentives for someone to pull the trigger. This is the bottom line. I do hope the doctor does not go down alone, if at all.

And why don't we ask EXACTLY WHY Michael hired Dr. Murray. Could it be he knew he'd get his way because of this dumbasses mess of a life? If you dangle meat in front of a starving dog, you should not be surprised if it bites your hand.
[Edited 9/4/09 12:09pm]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That's a lame analogy. This guy could have said "no" and moved on with his life. Nobody forced him to do anything.
[Edited 9/4/09 12:10pm]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I think with even that, Murray's the bigger dumbass not following his oath. The hell he thought he was doing giving MJ all that stuff allegedly as he 'reportedly' told P.O.

Timmy84 said:

I'm sure the rewards clouded his judgement. He should have run very fast from Michael Jackson but Michael had the resources to hire a team of the most brilliant medical minds that the world had to offer. But he didn't. Why? Because he knew he wouldn't get his way.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That's probably true too. I don't know... I don't think Murray's innocent at all but he seems weak-minded, dumb, callous, etc. I mean, God, how shady of a character you can be? But I guess when it comes to caring for celebrities, some "doctors" forget to honor what they repeated when they got their jobs? That said, I don't know any person who trust doctors especially if they do shady shit like this one did.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

you're probably one of those people who believes that if a woman has history of prostitution and she gets raped by some stranger, that makes her culpable for her rape. cause that is that's what you're saying. you're placing the blame on the victim, and absolving the purpetrator for his own actions.

if i see my coworker's pocketbook lying open with a $100 in full view, am i less of a thief if i take it? yeah, she may be silly or negligent or too trusting or naive to have her money lying out on a table, but i'm responsible for my own actions. her being an idiot, does not make me less of a thief. mj being an idiot for agreeing to the propofol does not make murray less than culpable for his murder.

In no way am I exonerating Jackson. But anyone who was a part of his bad choices deserves their dues.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

that's no excuse for any doctor, if michael was an addict like they claim an dthey saw he had a problem the should have done something. these are things michael could get on his own, people were giving it to him.

and the thing that bothers me is WHO introduced propfol to michael in the first place, mike ain't no medical professional to come up with the idea of using it to sleep on his own... some doctor suggested it. they said michael had a "mini clinic" on the history tour, an anesthiologist was with him also...at least he knew what he was doing.

mimi07 said:

And that's the biggest problem. Who would even tell dude that it can be used in the home. It's like Michael was like "Okay, I can use this and be alright" and he begins to ask for this when he gets back on the road because he can't sleep after rehearsals and he has this clown juice him up acting as if he knew what this fool was doing...

look at this from 2000:

New York Post
February 9, 2000

JACKO DRUG STUNNER IN 'GYNO' TRIAL

A one-time dope-addict doctor was accused yesterday of pumping Michael
Jackson full of drugs while on tour with the bizarre megastar. The
bombshell accusation came in Manhattan federal court, where Dr. Neil
Ratner was testifying against another doctor in an insurance-fraud
case. Sources said Ratner told colleagues he once gave the Gloved One
so much of a relaxant that Jackson collapsed during a world tour.
Ratner is a key prosecution witness at the federal trial of Dr. Niels
Lauersen, a celebrity gynecologist dubbed the "Dyno Gyno," who's
charged with defrauding health-insurance companies for fertility
treatments. Ratner said that in the past few years he worked as a "tour
physician" for Jackson, but refused on the stand to answer questions
about Jackson and drugs. "Would you give Michael Jackson drugs?" asked
Lauersen's lawyer, Ted Wells, referring to the singer's 1996-97
tour. "I'm not going to discuss a patient's personal medical
condition," answered Ratner. Seconds later, in a heated sidebar
conversation with Judge William Pawley, Wells accused Ratner of being
Jackson's personal drug pusher. Wells told the judge Ratner gave
Jackson drugs while the King of Pop was touring in Europe. "I think
what he is doing is illegal," insisted Wells, who has spent days
grilling Ratner on the witness stand, trying to paint him as a liar and
a thief. The judge ruled that Ratner did not have to talk about his
treatment of Jackson. Asked again about his work on the tour, Ratner
answered: "I administered medical treatment occasionally." Sources said
Ratner once told people in Lauersen's office that Jackson collapsed
after a show because Ratner had given him too much of a general
anesthetic called propofol. Propofol is often used to relieve anxiety
or pain, but larger doses cause unconsciousness. When told of the lurid
drug accusations that surfaced at the trial, Jackson lawyer Brian Wolf
said the Gloved One's medical history was confidential. Ratner has said
he was an out-of-control drug-using doctor in the late '80s before
getting sober. He has denied ever illegally prescribing drugs to
anyone, including Jackson, in the '90s.
[Edited 9/4/09 12:26pm]

Timmy84 said:

yeah and since michael supposedly did it on his tour befor and murray had been supposedly giving him this ISH for about 6 weeks michael felt safe. he trusted this doctor

mimi07 said:

Wow MJ and Propofol had a long relationship

and this is from fox news


At Least Nine Doctors Who Treated Michael Jackson Under Investigation

Wednesday, July 15, 2009


Among the physicians known or believed to have treated Jackson over the last several years are:

— Dr. Alimorad "Alex" Farschchian, family practitioner, dispensing practitioner, runs the Center for Regenerative Medicine in Miami Beach, Fla.

— Dr. Allan Metzger, Lupus specialist, internist, rheumatologist, has a practice in West Hollywood, Calif.

— Dr. William Barnhart “Barney” VanValin, internist and general practitioner, specializing in thyroid problems, staff doctor at the Hormone Resource Center in Solvang, Calif.

— Dr. Cary Phillip Logan, internist, general practitioner, concierge physician, Inn-House Doctor, Inc., in Las Vegas.

— Dr. Neil Ratner, anesthesiologist, Woodstock, N.Y.

— Dr. Saunders, no other information available.

— Dr. Gerald Labiner, recently retired, practiced in Beverly Hills.

— Dr. Conrad Murray, cardiologist, runs a private practice in Las Vegas and a clinic in Houston, was Jackson's personal physician at the time of the pop star's death.

— Dr. Arnold Klein, dermatologist, Beverly Hills.

mimi07 said:

in one of these "r.i.p." threads, there was an interview with two sony execs who pretty much confirm this info. if memory serves, they said mj was afraid to tour again b/c he thought he might die. he talked about the i.v.'s, the drugs, dehydration.

but i guess he felt his back was to the wall with his debts and such. though it sounded harsh at the time, i agree with rupert everett's assessment. even if the stand at o2 had been successful, mj would have only been hated more as a 'freak' for a number of unconfortable reasons that i won't elaborate on here.

Yep, the same thing that MJ collapsed from was the same drug that ended up killing him and YES he trusted the doctor. So it wasn't like he didn't know he was giving the stuff, it's just the dosage thing that Mike wasn't so clear about but he trusted him to give him that stuff though he wasn't even required to even do that.

kibbles said:

Yeah he really needed the money ,I always wonder why Michael didn't write songs for people(in this era)he could have made alot of money from that.

babybugz said:

I wonder a lot of things. Why he start projects, then stop. I think he was tired of it all but then when pushed with this debt thing, I guess he felt he couldn't do anything BUT perform. While this investigation into his death is unusual, the way MJ's life played out, I'm not surprised that he died the way he did. Sad shit.

Timmy84 said:

exactly. he trusted this doctor, according to randy phillips. yes, he was looking for someone to administer propofol (sadly, tragically), and had been turned down by most he approached, due to the unusual request. i'm sure mj was aware that it *could be* dangerous if not properly administered - all drugs are.

i don't think murray would have received the job even if he was willing to do it if mj had the slightest inkling that murray wasn't capable and qualifed to administer it to him. what would be the point in that?
[Edited 9/4/09 12:57pm]