Well Cherilyn Lee claimed MJ was so adamant that the shit worked. I'm still thinking those other sedatives killed him. Murray just told it round and aboutly even though his words supposedly contradicted what the coroner "found". All the while we still don't know what was in his system at the time of his death. It's all speculation even though we know it's a homicide case.

Timmy84 said:

Well that's the technical charge anyway.
Personally, I think it could be debated.

So outside of all the speculation here, you know what i'm missing in this discussion?
MJ's own culpability in his demise. That would be an interesting discussion.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

DesireeNevermind said:

Making Michael look like Gator from Jungle Fever

theAudience said:

Some think that discussion is still too soon since MJ's death is still fresh.

Timmy84 said:

I know it's possible that the truth may hurt the hardcore irrational fan, but the fact of the matter is that MJ didn't start taking this cornucopia of pharmaceuticals on June 25th. Nor did anyone tie him down and force them on him.

I don't know, just my take.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

No I agree. MJ's death reminds me of some that die from prescription medication.

theAudience said:

100% correct.

bboy87 said:

for realz. he wasn't no junkie on the street corner tryna sell his momma's car stereo for a hit. the dude began his addiction to pain killers because of the pain inflicted during the pepsi scalp burning incident then it progressed taking prescription meds for sleep aids. He as admitted all of this.

Many an entertainer has used drugs to stay awake so they can perform those long ass shows from city to city and fit interviews and after parties in between. On top of that he has children to raise, staff to support, finances to manage, lawsuits to contend, crazy ass relatives to avoid with (hey Latoya and Joe), and he still has to work to earn his living and support his lifestyle. I mean fuck...who wouldn't have a drug problem dealing with all that mess.

Timmy84 said:

I took my and noo it wasn't *that* I'm just gonna read here and eat some and

tangerine7 said:

lol I feel you.

The thing about MJ being culpable is this...

I believe an addiction is a disease. One could say that diabetes is a disease that a person's lifestyle can contribute to the worsening of that disease... yet when a person dies of complications of diabetes, people don't say "hey, he contributed to his death because he didn't exercise enough, or he didn't eat a low fat diet..." instead people say "that darn diabetes... I hope they find a cure".

Well the same for drug addiction...

It is terrible when someone get addicted to a dangerous drug and the medical PROFESSIONALS contribute to that addiction for no good reason other than the almighty dollar.

They need to be stopped! Like someone said... they are drug pushers with a license.

prodigalfan said:

amen!

The thing is...MJ was taking legal drugs prescribed by health professionals for an ailment that he didn't bring on himself. This is where I can make the distinction between him and a crackhead/alchoholic/meth addict etc and not pass any kind of moral judgement on him and say "it was all his fault." He never took this stuff for recreation and fun and let it get out of hand. The man was sick and trusted doctors to treat his sickness by any means necessary and because he could afford any and all treatment, he was taken advantage of by money grubbing doctors/licensed drug pushers.

All you have to do is watch celebrity rehab- if the celeb says they are in pain they are give narcotics even if the doc knows that they are in rehab.

DesireeNevermind said:

But you can get addicted to prescription drugs too, infact most drug addicts are addicted to prescription drugs, whether it be sleeping pills or pain killers. Now we know that Michael was at one time addicted to painkillers. The fact that he had to use propofol to sleep, which is almost unheard of in a domestic setting, proves that he must have built up a tolerance to the more conventional, sleeping aids, i.e. Valium. If your body builds up such a tolerant to medication like Valium, that means some kind of addiction must have taken place for that to happen.

Having said that I do believe his insomnia was a long-term issue that probably dated back to the J5 era and it probably got worse with time due to added pressures and stress.
[Edited 8/28/09 11:22am]

(WARNING: LONG VENT!)

NOw as far as his battle with addictions... I think MJ needed some psychological counseling to deal with these stresses and anxiety etc that he was "self medicating" with alcohol and prescription drugs.

I really think he had some major issues from his childhood that he could not or would not deal with and the problems festered over the years and eventually destroyed him.

I see people mask and downplay major issues (issues with parents, spouses, children, war atrocities, death of loved ones, abuse)
that if not addressed will not go away, they simply grow, get worse. Then to mask the pain, people will self medicate, use drugs or drink or pursue sexual deviations, gamble.. you name it.

If you don't get professional help to assist you to figure out what REALLY is the problem... not sleep insomnia or bad kids... but what is REALLY hurting you... your "solutions" for the mental/emotional pain will grow. Sometimes people in pursuit of self medicating, self destruct... they OD'd, become serial rapist or murders, gamble their lives and families away, they become hopelessly addicted.

MJ need psychological help. It was obvious.. look at the excessives of plastic surgery did to his face, (his perfect nose disfigured by repeated surgeries), look at the excessives of spending did to his fortune (was reportedly close to bankrupt although now his estate is back in black), look at the excessives of personal doctors did to his very life (ended it).

It is just a damn shame that the people closest to him... (I mean really close to him before Grace, Emanuel Lewis and that plastic surgeon became his closest confidants,) did not get him some help when he was still reachable to his family. Some of his family members are the original "yes men".

prodigalfan said:

but in addition to psychological treatement he needed physical treatment. Those drugs can remain in your system even after you stop taking them. He needed both to fully recover and nobody was there to see him through. Some people thinking they can just switch up his drugs and others thinking they can talk him out of the addiction. Poor Mikey was just screwed.

DesireeNevermind said:

You are right... the addiction is not only mental/emotional... it is physical as well.

I guess I just dismiss the physical addiction because we have treatment for the physical addiction... it is the psychological addiction that we really have no easy sure fix.

It is what brings our revolving patients... you work so hard to keep the alive through the night.. you tell the nurse in the morning... "I don't think he will be here when I get back tonight" and then you come back and find.. MIRACLE.. he made it through the night. Against all odds and the hard work of a talented team of doctors, nurses and respiratory therapists... the patient actually walks out of the dooor to go home and then next month... here he comes again with the same thing... OD or alcohol withdrawals.

It is enough to make you want to throw up your hands and holler.