VoicesCarry said:

Exactly! I don't understand why people are saying MJ got Janet in show biz when Joe was the one.

SoulAlive said:

This really shows you haven't listened to her music since 1993. The Velvet Rope is far removed from the janet. album, lyrics and image-wise. It's about depression, not sex. I recommend that you revisit her catalogue.

VoicesCarry said:

But you still are ignoring the fact that Janet has done nothing special or personal image and songwise since Velvet Rope.
[Edited 8/27/09 8:18am]

VoicesCarry said:

But you still are ignoring the fact that Janet has done nothing special or personal image and songwise since Velvet Rope.
[Edited 8/27/09 8:18am]

paisleypark4 said:

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm pointing out an inaccurate statement.

I disagree that every one of Janet's albums of this decade means nothing or is impersonal, however. I thought All For You was a very personal record - post-divorce, it was the album she needed to make. Madonna and Janet both made very similar progression from the sexual content of Erotica/janet. to the deeply personal/reflective Ray of Light/The Velvet Rope to the fun, loose Music/All For You (yes, I know I am ignoring Bedtime Stories).

Janet has been relatively static with her last 3 albums, though - even though I like songs on each one of them. I think Damita Jo is a quality record (if bloated), and she was certainly trying new sounds (Just a Little While, Slo Love). I wonder what it would have been like without Virgin's interference. 20 Y.O. was trend-chasing and pretty dismal, a few songs excepted. Discipline had some great tracks but lacked cohesiveness. For me, songs like Feedback, Rock With U and So Much Betta are fantastic and outrank everything else she has done this decade - they also don't sound like anything else she has done this decade.

I'm not one who considers Madonna's images this decade particularly special, personal, interesting or successful. American Life was an unique experiment, but a complete mess as a project, with some of her worst videos to date. That flopped, so she played it safe, changed her hair colour and did the Saturday Night Fever dance for Confessions, which was just a by-the-numbers pastiche of better dance music that had come before it. After the success of Confessions, I thought she would go back to experimenting and taking risks, but instead we got Hard Candy, which I find her most boring, generic record ever.
[Edited 8/27/09 8:56am]

Janet wrote and produced this

midiscover said:

The argument doesn't work because Janet signed her contract and was recording [b]long before Michael released Thriller. Hell, her first album was released over two months before Thriller, and sold enough on its own merits to guarantee her more work. He wasn't a big superstar yet.[/b] It was Joe who got her the contract with A&M and forced her to record (the reason she doesn't really like her first two albums). Janet didn't want a career in music when she first started out - she decided that it was for her once Joe was out of the picture.
[Edited 8/27/09 7:43am]

midiscover said:

boring.
it doesn't compare to the songs Madonna wrote by herself. Like Lucky Star, Burning Up, Everyody. Oh and Madonna's songs charted, quite well. Janet's "Ask for More" did not. Janet's was released at a time when she was a superstar, Madonna's were at a time when she was an unknown.
[Edited 8/27/09 9:24am]

Ya know,I really didn't wanna get dragged into this thread because I think these types of discussions are silly and childish The only reason I joined this thread is because I was seeing alot of negative comments (and lies) about Madonna.I wanted to set the record straight,lol.My work is done;Have a great day everybody

VoicesCarry said:

wrong. Michael was already a superstar since the 1970s with the Jackson 5 and off the wall record. It is with thriller that Michael became the most famous person on the planet.
[Edited 8/27/09 10:22am]

VoicesCarry said:

I agree Discipline and Damita Jo had the makings of being great records, but just got a little lost amongst all the dreary sex ballads and slow jams. 20YO was an abomination on her catalogue, and All For You was a big let down for me after VR.....it was kinda when i stopped getting hyped about Janet records.

i also agree that Madonna's work this decade has been far from iconic or groundbreaking, and she has simply been treading water with her records, in order to sell tour tickets. That said i find all her albums of the 00s far more interesting and solid works than Janet's, albeit far from being her own best works.

I think the difference between the two now is that madonna is willing to shift her sound more, and is also far more driven about her career than Janet is about hers. Its very true that in terms of creative peaks, their careers have followed similar paths, but i wish Janet would get a bit more drive back into her records.

paisleypark4 said:

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm pointing out an inaccurate statement.

I disagree that every one of Janet's albums of this decade means nothing or is impersonal, however. I thought All For You was a very personal record - post-divorce, it was the album she needed to make. Madonna and Janet both made very similar progression from the sexual content of Erotica/janet. to the deeply personal/reflective Ray of Light/The Velvet Rope to the fun, loose Music/All For You (yes, I know I am ignoring Bedtime Stories).

Janet has been relatively static with her last 3 albums, though - even though I like songs on each one of them. I think Damita Jo is a quality record (if bloated), and she was certainly trying new sounds (Just a Little While, Slo Love). I wonder what it would have been like without Virgin's interference. 20 Y.O. was trend-chasing and pretty dismal, a few songs excepted. Discipline had some great tracks but lacked cohesiveness. For me, songs like Feedback, Rock With U and So Much Betta are fantastic and outrank everything else she has done this decade - they also don't sound like anything else she has done this decade.


I agree. The slow jams par "Cant Be Good" and "Whats Your Name" were horrendous and did nothing for her catelogue. The uptempo tunes were great.



I'm not one who considers Madonna's images this decade particularly special, personal, interesting or successful. American Life was an unique experiment, but a complete mess as a project, with some of her worst videos to date.


I thought American Life (real version) and Die Another Day were two of her greatest.


That flopped, so she played it safe, changed her hair colour and did the Saturday Night Fever dance for Confessions, which was just a by-the-numbers pastiche of better dance music that had come before it.

I do agree with that, and there was nothing too special about the rest of the tunes that were not singles. However she did talk personally through the dance music be it Isaac, I Love New York, or Push...even though it wasnt all that great in my opinion.



After the success of Confessions, I thought she would go back to experimenting and taking risks, but instead we got Hard Candy, which I find her most boring, generic record ever.

I found it a funky melodic album. As someone who knows these producers hand to foot I found their work to be very well done. Neptunes worked a bit harder than their previous closest efforts with other artists compared because she co-produced the tracks as well as co-wrote. Just listen to what she did to Pharells original version of "Heartbeat" or Spanish Lesson and Wendy on guitar on "She's Not Me"? ..funky.

RKJCNE said:

It was a jingle for Pepsi!
Janet wrote the lyrics AND produced it! Has Madonna ever done that? No.

midiscover said:

youtube]www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKOA7kugWV0[/youtube]
She wrote this tune and co-produced it with Jellybean.

Janet co-wrote and produced "Camp katchu Kai" with latoya too..so your point is nil.

midiscover said:

She wrote this electro freestyle tune and co-produced it with Jellybean.

Janet co-wrote and produced "Camp katchu Kai" with latoya too..so your point is nil.
[Edited 8/27/09 11:13am]

paisleypark4 said:

What??

I'm saying Janet wrote and produced "Ask For More" with just herself

midiscover said:

I dont know any tracks she did totally herself, just written. However that mediocre song doesnt satisfy what she has done after All 4 U that song was made in the Janet - Velvet Rope era.

You think I dont have no knowledge of Janet whatsoever. I have every album and just about most of her bootlegs; what you trying to pull? Just because Michael only produced and wrote "Blues Away" by himself establishes him as a whole producer in the same vein as you are putting Janet and Madonna's talent? you dont even read what I write...Im wasting my time.

Soulalive how you doin?

VoicesCarry said:

wrong. Michael was already a superstar since the 1970s with the Jackson 5 and off the wall record. It is with thriller that Michael became the most famous person on the planet.
[Edited 8/27/09 10:22am]

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

Michael's clout and status, post-Off The Wall and pre-Thriller, was certainly not enough to get his sister signed to a rival record label. Get real. It's Joe who went in there and got her signed, just like he did with ALL his kids, Michael included. Without Joe, there would be no Jackson dynasty in the first place.
[Edited 8/27/09 11:39am]

RKJCNE said:

Dream on! Janet's chair dance wasn't a tease! She was first 2 do it. She created it. Don't catogrize Janet as a copycat! She's the trendsetter!

VoicesCarry said:

[Edited 8/27/09 11:14am]

TotalAlisa said:

I remember an interview where Madonna was asked if she slept her way to the stop.She replied "If it were only that easy"





Of course not.Her brother is Michael Jackson That was her ticket into show business.

SoulAlive said:

yeah i SAID SHE SLEPT HER WAY TOT THE TOP, and She also had to practice witch craft as well.

You don't know anything about the music industry. Cause you would know madonna sold her soul for fame and fortune.

So she is right, its not that easy, but she slept around and sold her soul.

If you have to do that, you don't have talent.

Even if Janet got it handed to her, if she didn't have talent she would not have stayed afloat because many people like you would find and excuse to not like her. So if anything janet had to prove herself and had more expectations on her.

SoulAlive said:

You didn't set anything straight. You just repeated what the other Madonna fans were saying. Saturating her popularity and sales as if that places her higher than Janet in a talent and influence discussion

[Edited 8/27/09 10:37am]

paisleypark4 said:

Die Another Day wasn't a video to support the album, though - it was for the DAD soundtrack, and then they tacked it on to the album. It was released before the album, just like Doesn't Really Matter.

American Life was ruined for me when she chickened out (and she NEVER does that) and recut it.

The rest of the videos were really bad.

Yes, Confessions had some personal stuff....but, like sex with Janet, Madonna's been covering those themes forever on her albums, especially the price of fame and her determination to succeed. It's sort of like comparing Mother & Father on American life to Oh Father on LAP - she's been talking about her parents for decades, only it's not nearly as interesting anymore. I don't really consider I Love New York to be worthy of any note It's a fucking terrible song, through and through.

With Hard Candy, her writing really reached a nadir for me - what the FUCK was 4 Minutes even about?!?! Just terrible. The awful lyrics and phoned-in vocals on Hard Candy bothered me a lot more than the production did.
[Edited 8/27/09 11:50am]

paisleypark4 said:

Die Another Day wasn't a video to support the album, though - it was for the DAD soundtrack, and then they tacked it on to the album. It was released before the album, just like Doesn't Really Matter.

American Life was ruined for me when she chickened out (and she NEVER does that) and recut it.

The rest of the videos were really bad.





Yes, Confessions had some personal stuff....but, like sex with Janet, Madonna's been covering those themes forever on her albums, especially the price of fame and her determination to succeed. It's sort of like comparing Mother & Father on American life to Oh Father on LAP - she's been talking about her parents for decades, only it's not nearly as interesting anymore. I don't really consider I Love New York to be worthy of any note It's a fucking terrible song, through and through.


But at least she covered [b]A theme. I'd say "Enjoy" was the only message laden song Janet has put out since "Better Days". [/b]


With Hard Candy, her writing really reached a nadir for me - what the FUCK was 4 Minutes even about?!?! Just terrible. The awful lyrics and phoned-in vocals on Hard Candy bothered me a lot more than the production did.


I take 4 Minutes as a 2008 version of 1999. It's about having fun and doing what you want before the world ends....that's why everything is crumbling in the video and people's skin is coming off. Imo.


[Edited 8/27/09 11:50am]

midiscover said:

ok midiscover....please explain how we are supposed to quantify talent then if youre so darn great at it? i know success dont equal talent....i concur with this point. so excluding your own subjective opinions of an artist, what would you say are the best indicators of somebodys talent?