totaldiva said:

Agreed! i love janet ...but tbh i love anything the Jackson's do

I always thought Janet could sing. It's a light tone at best, but some of those high notes on the earlier records don't get hit by girls that can't sing. I wonder what her range as a vocalist is at this point, when the studio isn't assisting her.

Of course.

There are a whole lot of different approaches.

vainandy said:

my prom didn't look nothin' like that....

ehuffnsd said:

1. Bullshit. J&L already had the melodies on Control done before they met Janet. She just filled the void by adding her own lyrics.

"When I was 17 I did what people told me
Did what my father said and let my mother mold me"

cleary Janet.

2. No shit!

3. (Excluding all the interludes)Janet is credited on 7 tracks. Black Cat being written and produced by Janet/ co-produced by Jellybean! But the whole album is obviously her vision. Do you know what the job of a music producer is?

midiscover said:

let me the quote you used here:


don't get me wrong i'm HUGE janet fan however i know you are lying when you typed that.

midiscover said:

you'll notice that on Design Of A Decade, they moved her writing credit to third in line for most tracks, IIRC, meaning she had the least amount of input.

Yes, I can. Especially if they're good at other thangs. I do believe some people can write songs, some can't. If they can't, I'd rather they not try.

The Dixie Chicks didn't really write many songs on their first couple of albums but that doesn't take away the fact that they are BRILLIANT musicians and Natalie Maines truly is a great singer.

Hi All I'm new to this site and I'm loving the interesting discussions going on.

I think people need to be respected and credited for what they can do. Some can sing, others can write, others can dance, others can compose and produce and some can do it all!

Just because someone does not write their owns songs that does not mean they are not talented. Celine Dione, Tina Turner and Whitney Houston come to mind.

Sometimes I think people often put aside natural singing talent... without a voice there is no song!! Some people are naturally gifted vocalists and thats enough for me.

Peoples talents vary some can sing better and write better than others and some people are great composers but know nothing about writing songs or perfomrming. This just means as human beings we all have different things that we are good at and there is nothing wrong with this fact.

Feedback is welcome x
[Edited 8/13/09 8:43am]

ehuffnsd said:

Ok, she didn't have input in a few songs but the majority of her work she's involved. Even if a few of her tracks are credit solely to J & L it's Janet's work. Besides I don't know of any artist that solely wrote each and every song of theirs. Janet wrote Together Again by herself in Europe while J&L came up with the melody. A songwriter- not only writes the lyrics but come up with the melody. So whenever you see more then one person credited as a songwriter it can mean they wrote the lyrics or created the melody or did both. I just don't appreciate how people are saying Janet never writes her music when basically she does!

Did J&L write this?

errant said:

Are you serious?
[Edited 8/13/09 9:13am]

midiscover said:

i know what a song writer does, but when you clearly overstate something you had to be called out.

MJPNFORLIFE said:

I like your post. Except for the Celine Dion comment. I think she's a shitty singer

OK, I love Janet but why are y'all talking about her? Move on to someone else or I'm gonna get Madea on y'all:

^ that's hot.

ehuffnsd said:

No, you don't.

midiscover said:

dear don't start this with me, you don't know me nor know what i know or don't know. You clearly overstated your opinion, which isn't back up by fact, that Janet wrote every song in her catalog from Control to All For You. I've shown you the error of your statement. That doesn't mean that I don't know what a song writer does. Had JJ come up with the melody or the lyrics for any of the songs she isn't credited for her name would have been in the credits. She isn't stupid and neither am i. you are letting your fandom blind you a bit.

ehuffnsd said:

Ok, when I said Janet wrote every song from Control- AFY. I was fully aware by my overstatement I was just meaning that she had involvement Control- AFY. I find it funny that you would pick up that one false statement I made The Janet hate around here is a bit too much

midiscover said:

because someone criticizes doesn't mean one is a hater. The Velvet Rope is one of the most important albums in my life and i've seen EVERY single Janet tour in person from RN to RWU. I've earned my right to be critical.

plus if you meant involvement you should have stated that.

This is new on the org. Janet fan vs. Janet fan.

totaldiva said:

no voices and i go at it from time to time.

ehuffnsd said:

I'm a Janet fan too. It beats the age old Janet vs. Madge debate. Carry on.

totaldiva said:

i'm a fan of both.

Maybe i should change this to a lets hate on Janet Jackson thread

L0tusFl0w3r said:

Go for it. This way the moderators can do us all a favor and close it the same way they did riverpoets attempt.
[Edited 8/13/09 13:32pm]

L0tusFl0w3r said:

criticism is not hate. only to people who litel their fandom blind them.

This thread needs some Gaga in it.

Well, hell's fire!

Damn, we are talking about music here, not about something like Janet Jackson.

TonyVanDam said:

I get your point, but what about those who give life to a song?
There are great songwriters that couldn't give life to their own songs, so there are good singers to do that.
I think a good singer is an artist too.

If would be great if all singers could write their own songs (lyrics, music or both), but that's not possible all the time.

That's why there are great songs which are covered endless times by different artists and they reach different people.

The first time I fell for "I can't make you love me" was by George Michael. Bonnie wrote it, but her version didn't touch me.

Same story with other songs.

I can't think of any other artist to sing "I Want You" better than Marvin. I've listened to Diana Ross's and Michael McDonald's Versions but I just die for Marvin's version after all. Besides, Michael McDonald- with all the love I feel for his music & voice, changed the lyrics and that makes me


[Edited 8/14/09 22:20pm]
[Edited 8/14/09 22:21pm]

MJPNFORLIFE said:

Welcome to the org.

I agree with everything but that bolded/underlined part. There are several genres of music that don't have singers. Classical, techno/house, and instrumental being three of them. Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach didn't need singers and their bodies of work are still amazing after hundreds of years. I can listen to a Paul Oakenfold song whether there's a vocalist on the track or not because he's just soo damn good. They have instrumental tracks on lots of albums and CD singles just so you can hear what a cool beat the song has . Prince's whole album, N.E.W.S., is instrumental and it's actually very nice...love Track 3 .

For me, a great vocalist should be able to sing without beats and/or instrumentals (a capella)...and still sound great (something that not many can actually do well), but they still need lyrics to sing. The singer may be able to offer something great to the song that the lyricist was unable to do (ie. good vocal abilities); but, I don't believe that singer is any better than the lyrics at the end of the day. I think Carole King is a waay better lyricist than actual singer, but that hasn't kept her from selling albums over the years.

Even if the singer is an outstanding vocalist, they can't always save a song that has bad lyrics. A bad song would be a bad song no matter how great the vocalist is. I've heard some lyrically great songs that were destroyed by the singer...just watch 'American Idol' in the auditions shows to see where I'm coming from. I never hate the song after hearing it be butchered, but I do have thoughts of beating the crap out of the singer who just tortured and viciously murdered a great song. This is probably the main reason why I can never go to karaoke night; it would just be too much for me to handle.

Sometimes, good vocalists can save the song, but if the lyrics and the vocals are bad, than you have only the beat left to rely on and great beats have saved many a lyrically and vocally terrible song for me. All these elements work together, but I don't believe they are all equal to each other in the end. Personally, I tend to concentrate on lyrics after I've heard the singer's voice. The lyrics are what I stay focused on more than the singer after the initial listening, but everyone hears and interprets music in their own ways. There is no right or wrong on personal opinion .

You mentioned Whitney, Celine, and Tina and I agree with your opinion. I do believe that it is a talent when a vocalist is able to take a lyrically deep song that was written by someone else and evoke the emotions described in those lyrics as if they had written the words themselves. That's a real talent that I can respect; and, that is what most of the great vocalists have been able to do soo well (unfortunately not all vocalist can do that even if they have great vocal abilities). Dolly Parton may have written and sang "I Will Always Love You" first, but Whitney 'owned' that song. Many people didn't even know that Dolly had originally written and recorded it years before Whitney's version. Personally, I enjoy both versions equally because they sound totally different from each other. I've always had a strange fascination with Dolly Parton for some reason....probably because I absolutely adore her movie 'A Smokey Mountain Christmas'.

In the end, I'd rather see an artist put their own feelings on paper and share them with the listening public as apposed to singing someone else's feelings. It's like choosing to read a biography over an autobiography. I'd much rather read that person tell me their life story than have someone else's interpretation. That's something that some people find important and others don't really care about, so to each his/her own in that respect. Personally, I prefer autobiographies.

Honestly, I've seen soo many songs be re-made and covered and end up sounding either better and worse than the original version and the only thing that usually changes during a cover is the person singing it, so that's probably why the singer rarely takes precedence in the song making process for me. I love the lyrics to 'Nothing Compares 2 U', but absolutely hate Sinead O Connor's version of the song...always have. I don't think she's a terrible singer; I just don't think she's a great singer, but that's just me. I respect her for interpreting it in her own way, but her interpretation of the song does absolutely nothing for me, but still shot up the charts during it's time so apparently lots of people really enjoyed it.
Oh, well, different strokes for different folks as they say. Just my