LightOfArt said:

yes, so i guess what people are saying here is they don't really believe someone is stunted like that, geniuenly they have ulterior motives.

i don't think it's wrong to question whether or not mj's a pedo but the reason people get so defensive is obvious with all of the one-sided media attention.

Let's just hypothetically say Michael was sexually abused as a young boy, and that is what he desired coming into his own sexuality in his teen years. He experimented with women but that was not what he was into. Some how he surpressed that desire instead of dealing with it, and it haunts him all his life. Later on in life it showed in his actions not once but twice and he got off scott free because his pockets were deep. Michael was good at working the crowd or public acting as a scared little boy trapped in a grown man's body. It's hard to believe that what ever you are eventually shows up on the outside. Self awareness can be a bitch sometimes. This is my opinion and they are like assholes everybody got one.

The Michael Jackson floons don't wanna address his bizarre behavior or the molestation charges.

Bring on the hate responses you Michael Jackson floons. Opinions are like assholes we all got one..... drumroll....begin with the bashing! Truth hurts!!!

could you at least pretend to read the thread? lol

OldTeenager said:

the truth according to you.

OldTeenager said:

Those things have been discussed throughout the entire thread.

Go back to pg 2 and read my comments--the last ones on the page.

What say you of the fact that IT WAS THE PARENTS--NOT THE CHILDREN--WHO ACCUSED MICHAEL OF ABUSE??? And their accusations were NOT based on anything the children told him. In fact, initial inquiries were met with confused denials.

OldTeenager said:

yeah you got ur own opinion and we respect it. That's fine. The problem is that you believe that you're right and anyone who disagrees with you is a floon. GROW UP LADY.

StillDirrty said:

This is prescribed for men in order to lower their sexual impulses as well. It's a trip to wonder why he'd need such a drug (if true), but would it really surprise me? I'm sorry, but nothing would surprise me at this point re: MJ (the propofol took the cake).

MJ may or may not have been guilty of anything, but I agree with the initial article in that it's not "mean" to question his situation. I do understand that it's all water under the bridge now, though.

Karen71 said:

it's no use debating with her. She's stuck in her opinions and anyway who asks her to look at the bigger picture or disagrees with her is a floon. Similar to some of the orgers on this board. Don't waste your time. People are gonna believe what they wanna believe.

one day he's gay next day he's a pedo

people need to make up their minds or just not say anything

dearmother said:

you can be both or either. i don't think many people would deny his homosexuality, even those who are in complete denial about any child abuse allegations

i'm sure if they found a box of video tapes of MJ abusing children there will still be those in denial about it. some people just can't accept facts when they don't want to or aren't able to take it in, and i think the largest percentage of big MJ fans are in that area. they have a similarly sheltered life by devoting themselves to MJ and ignoring other musicians, the news, etc, and fail to accept anything other than the official word from MJ, and that viewpoint skewers many discussions regarding him. perhaps now they might start to accept that he was a drug addict for the last 25 years, so may start to accept the other issues in his life

he made some great music, but he certainly wasn't a genius, and making good music is no excuse for having a shady personal life. it's quite easy to seperate the music from the personal life, most people will call him every name under the sun but still enjoy billie jean. you don't have to stop listening to the music even if he is proven without a shadow of a doubt to have abused kids

unique said:

I found his mannerisms to be completely gay.

I mean, minus the makeup, nose job, permed hair, skin bleaching, etc.
If I were to just meet him pre-plastic, I'd still sense that he was gay.


I can't blame him for feeling ashamed about it considering the abuse he received growing up though. I mean, who would want to live under Joe?

As far as the child molestation allegations, I'm 99% sure the most recent allegations are unfounded or exaggerated.
However, I've always found the 20 million hush money deal from the first allegations to be odd.

unique said:

Michael admitted to the drug addiction YEARS ago--and gave a public statement about his trip to rehab to address it.

Here's the real problem: There has been NO definitive proof of child abuse. I'm willing to bet that if such a video surfaced, he would lose the personal respect of all.

I see that those Cyndi Lauper threads were not garnering many replies for you Midnight, so you're back to your old tricks of once again making topics about either Michael, Janet or Madonna 'cause you know those will get the most attention . You and others need to stop acting like you're telling Jackson fans like myself things we haven't heard. You really need to get off your high horse already. You aren't any more informed or knowledgable than anyone else about Michael, so stop acting like you're giving people a "reality check" with your threads and constant assessments of Michael Jackson. You aren't saying anything that Michael Jackson fans like myself haven't been hearing for years.

I have heard IT ALL concerning those allegations. However, instead of just believing that MJ was innocent right away I decided to research about those cases myself and base my opinion on actual facts, not opinions of uninformed people. Based on what i've read about those cases I believe MJ to be innocent. Call me deluded. Call me a fanatic, but I have reasons for believing MJ to be innocent. Besides reading about those cases, I don't believe MJ fits the profile of a pedophille. Pedophille's don't molest children once every 10 years like MJ was accused of doing. Finding a pedo with only two victims is like finding a serial killer with only one body. It doesn't happen. I don't believe it and wont unless I see some concreate proof.

With this post of yours, you are preaching to the choir. People like yourself and others who believe Michael was a child molestor will continue to believe so. Now those like myself who believe him to be innocent will continue to believe that reagardless, so i'm not sure what you were trying to achieve by posting this. Reading this certainly doesn't change the mind of Jackson supporters like myself. Like I said you're preaching to the choir here with that one. People who believe he is guilty will of course agree and those who don't will disagree. A waste of time really. I usually don't reply to your threads about MJ because they are usually full of crap and just you looking for attention, but decided to this one time. I wont be back in here again though. I know this thread will reach like 10+ pages probably but I refuse to argue back and forth with you like others who constantly fall into your trap of attention seeking ways and disturbing need to constantly argue and put down others.

Have a great time debating now about the same shit over and over again and not getting anywhere. No one's mind will change as always, but have fun.

Karen71 said:

isn't that the problem with most child abuse cases? there is no definitive proof? it's the word of a child against the word of an adult? an adult who may have money for good lawyers and be able to play mental tricks on kids to keep them quiet?

did MJ hide his homosexuality as he was convinced the world would turn against him if he came out as the person he really was? was the world in love with who the thought MJ was, instead of the real MJ?

Imago said:

Yes, that was very uncomfortable viewing. Hearing them say that "if you love me, you'll sleep in my bed" stuff then giggling about it made me put my head in my hands and hide my Dangerous and Bad albums at the back of the shelf. Whether it was innocent fun or playful banter it sure didn't come across that way. I wish he knew better, especially after bouncing "Rubbah" Chandler on his lap at the WMAs.

unique said:

Gay & pedo aren't synonymous. There really should be a separation and it's kind of offensive to just associate the two together. Anyways, a lot of people don't think he's gay. More people think that he's asexual and a certain group think that he's into children. Others who see the long line of females that he's been into, people who know him personally, people that he fucked i.e. LISA MARIE PRESLEY, would beg to differ!!!! If Halperin was correct I'm sure his gay lovers would have come forward by now. Besides, people thinking that he's gay doesn't make it so. Remember that plenty think that Prince is gay.

Imago said:

considering that it was his insurance that forced him to pay out the money, for fear of a trial dragging on more than 4 or 5 years, how do you find it odd?
and anyway, even with that money paid out, the accuser did not want to go to court, even though they had every chance.

To me, it seems like Evan Chandler got his money and then fucked off back to his home where he could jerk himself off, while dumb pricks who can't understand simple documents, have to come up with some more garbage.

If he was a pedo, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CAUGHT, no two questions about it.
Considering the amount of people that were employed at Neverland, and the amount of constant scrutiny he was under.

2 alleged victims does not seem to indicate that he was a pedo.
You can forget the second allegation entirely, that was a joke one put together by a racist with a hardon for MJ.

The first allegation was even more of a joke. In fact, Evan Chandler cared so much for his abused son, that he beat the fuck out of him many years later.

Great family or what!!

dirtyman2005 said:

It seems like hush money to me.

bettybop said:

In context the usage of propofol makes sense. He was desperate for sleep so he abused the usage of an anesthetic that guarantees sleep. But the usage of it within the home, and having doctors agreeing to do it for him doesn't. Notice how the article has no direct quotes from the doctor himself excepting

That is how you tell when an article is being fabricated.
[Edited 8/10/09 1:53am]

StillDirrty said:

that's what i'm trying to point out, they are seperate things and you can be one or the other OR both

in the case of MJ it seems he WAS both

and regarding the women he's "been with", not one single person has ever confirmed that MJ has had sex with them, apart from the psycho woman who calls herself billie jean and claims the kids are hers. he was married twice and his last wife said they not only didn't have sex, but never ever slept in the same bed. lisa marie has never confirmed they had sex, she was always very subtle about it. people have suggested he had sex with brooke sheilds, but that was later denied by her

even so, there are plenty openly gay males who have had sex with women for various reasons, usually before they have openly came out, or they have tried to cover up the homosexuality. there are plenty of married men with kids who are gay, i've known at least two who didn't come out until they were in thier forties and worked with and knew more gay people to make them feel there was no shame in coming out

if he was asexual as some have suggested, why would he have pornography in his house, especially when most visitors who are not there to perform a service (ie. a job) are kids?

there could be a number of reasons why MJ's gay lovers haven't came forward. they could be married or end up in a bad situation if it was to come out, they may simply want to avoid the media circus. some obviously love and cherish the attention the media brings, but some hate it

and as for those who don't believe and trust certain forms of media they call "tabloid", it was that form of media that broke the story of his death first, and likewise most of the news stories that have been proven as true. the "real" news outlets are less interested in celebrities, which is why they don't report on the stories in the same way. if you deny tabloid reports you are denying a large part of news. all forms of media can print things which aren't true, but most people can tell the smoke from the fire

Blackmailed first time around, trial by media second time, and he went to court to defend himself.

Not a pedophile.

I question folk who are seemingly so desperate for him to be one?

Where are all these abused boys now? not exactly flying out of the woodwork to proclaim they were, are they?

Shouldn't they be knocking on the Estates door and talking to the media right now. Hush money only would work whilst he's alive, surely. Not even any parents coming forward.

Perhaps they're just respecting the mourning period. Cause wow, i know if i was abused by MJ, i'd be SOOOO respectful, why i think i'd just have to keep my mouth shut.

Perhaps it'll come in time. People looking for a $. I hope not.

But even if they do, i'll believe what i've always believed. MJ was not a pedophile.

A misunderstood, gentle and beautiful person, and i'm so sorry he's gone.

I'm happy he's away from discussions like this, for sure.

i wonder how many kids who are abused come out and say so though? it's been suggested many times that only a tiny minority are reported, which could be for a number of reasons. whilst kids are physically/sexually abused, in most cases we hear about, any real damage is mental/psychological, and doesn't usually take affect until the child is much older and realises what happened wasn't right, and by that time the victim can wonder if it's worth putting themselves through more mental pain in order to get some form of justice. there may well also be some form of stockhausen syndrome where the victim has feelings towards the abuser and thinks they were the "bad" one or they deserved what happened to them. you hear of similar issues regarding rape victims, again many people think only a tiny minority of rapes are reported, and for the same reasons

so just because more victims haven't came out of the woodwork doesn't mean it's evidence of any kind to support innocence on his behalf

if you think about the backgrounds to some of the kids who may have stayed, they may have stronger reasons why they don't want to admit and feel shame for having been abused. if macaulely culkin came out and confirmed he was abused for example, it would probably do more harm than good to whatever career he has left. others who may have slept over will be young adults now, and wouldn't want to face ridicule from friends, collegeaus and other students for example. admitting you are a victim of that kind of crime is rarely going to help the victim. and once the abuser is dead, the victim can't do anything about it at all. certainly if anyone wanted to say they were a victim of abuse by him now, they wouldn't be able to get any payout from him, and i think it would do anyone more harm than good to face the media with a story like that, whether you made it up for personal gain, or it was true


i don't think anyone is desperate for him to be proven a peadophile, it's more a case that people are nosy and want to know the truth, and many people are convinced he is, so want to know if they are right or not. those type of people don't have anything to win, lose or prove by either outcome

on a similar note i do wonder why some of his fans have blind faith to excessive extremes to deny any allegations or stories. is it because they feel that if he was proven to be gay or a pedophile that it was have some form of personal reflection on themselves? would it really turn thier life upside down if they found that their favourite pop star idol was proven guilty of molesting young boys? it's the only rational excuse i can think off. you can still listen to and enjoy the music regardless of what he did in his personal life. sure a million judas preist fans got a shock when the lead singer came out and admitted he was gay, but music is music regardless of who made it and how. you don't stop listening to phil spector because he shot someone do you?

unique said:

Yes she did. On video to Diane Sawyer and Oprah. Also as documented by biographer

Randy Taraborrelli:

Throughout his life, imo Michael has shown an obvious sexual preference and that is for WHITE WOMEN. Katie Couric recently told David Letterman that he asked her on a date. That is typical of black men who fetishize white women. She doesn't have to be cute she just has to be white. & I'm sorry if I was a straight male I wouldn't fuck Debbie Rowe either. She's ugly as hell and fat. Hell nah! Remember Michael used to be sexy as hell during the '80s and his eyes still worked when he was with Debbie. So we all knew that marriage was just for the kids but his marriage to Lisa Marie was real.

I remember in an interview where he declared that the most wonderful thing to do is share a bed with a child. This was it for me I couldn't stand him after that. Imagine all the pedophiles out there lapping that up. Yuck!
When I heard he died I really didn't give a shit & I still don't!
I only feel sorry for his children - I hope they find happiness.

FOCUS PEOPLE MJ WAS NOT THE KING OF POP!

StillDirrty said:

how can fans who deny anything tabloids say (including presumably his death as it was first reported by TMZ), believe what an unnamed "friend" of someone else has said in a bio?

i've not watched the oprah thing in a long time, but i just recall them avoiding questions and being suggestive, rather than all out saying "yes i had sex with him/her". he probably did have sex with her or some other woman at some point, but being one of the most famous guys in the world, if he was really interested in women he could be shagging left right and centre and showing off all the models he had instead of inviting kids round to his house for sleepovers. cuz that's what straight guys do, they want to shag as many hot chicks as possible, and if any normal straight man says that's not true, then he is a liar (note that almost all married straight guys will say that, and women are usually dumb enough to fall for it. if he ever buys you flowers, you know he's done something wrong)

unique said:

What does what fans say have to do with what I'm saying? I may be an MJ fan but I'm not the representative of the Michael Jackson fan club! & what the biographer said is just a rehash of an old Rollingstone Article of hers. & just because he wasn't screwing a lot of women doesn't mean that he wasn't into them. As I said in the MJ thread I strongly believe that he had Body Dysmorphic Disorder. That would explain the self-mutilation through plastic surgery, the anorexia, and the constant makeup. It makes sense that he didn't feel comfortable to reveal himself in that way to just anyone. He could be sexual onstage because he was the persona Michael Jackson, the brand but not Michael Jackson the man, the human being that was extremely insecure with himself. We all know that Michael wasn't right mentally so you can't compare him to the average male. & Lisa Mare did outright say that they had sex btw. I don't know where you got evasive from. She said yes to a yes or no question.
I remember her saying it because I watched that interview myself.

StillDirrty said:

I'm sure Michael had a normal love life, but I just find the Taraborrelli quote so weird, cause who in their right mind would share details to a friend about what went on when they had sex with someone.

Lisa in the Rolling Stone interview, said he was not impressive in bed.





[Edited 8/10/09 7:15am]

suga10 said:

Plenty of people. It's called girl talk. She didn't tell Randy himself that. & I never heard about Lisa saying that. The only thing she said was that she felt that he used her and that she fell in love with him. How could she be head over heels in love if the sex wasn't good? No girl is going to be sprung over a guy who is not bringing it to the table. & towards the end they stopped having sex but that's because the marriage was falling apart. Short interview post marriage. She was embarrassed about the marriage afterward but she never denied at the time being in love with him.

& I must add this:Here they are post-marriage while he was married to Debbie. They were STILL seeing each other.

[Edited 8/10/09 8:50am]

unique said:

That's why 'fan' is short for 'fanatic'. And you'll always have that hardcore base who'll support a star no matter what. Look at Elvis fans - no different.

there's not one shred of evidence mj molested any kid, DESPITE the creepy factor

i think if mj hadnt been so self-obsessed with his image and had a semblance of a social life and confidence (minus the jehovas witness crap) he wouldve been bisexual or gay. it is possible for someone with that many psychological issues to be asexual.