MOL said:

The first few words I felt shocked that Nicole had something damaging to say about MJ... then you had MJ sounding real aggressive and forceful... then I knew that didn't ring true. After all, you know what Eddie Murphy said about MJ... he gets you with sensitivity and tears.

voyevoda said:

What you fail to see is

1. This isnt my topic
2. MOL and i have responsed basically equally
3 So u must be offended im not agreing with the above


MOL....Bottom line is 35 year old man living on the corner of Avalon BLVD and 104th street in LA California. You got a n**gga who is 35 years old and he has kids coming to the crib 24/7 riding rides all day long. You find out some of these kids he has be-friended and slept in the same bed with.He says its all innocent.


Any neighbor who says OK..ummm...OK...ummm.OK....is a DUM ASS

No neighbor in the USA would put up with the shia***t like that

35 year old GROWN MAN....Sleeping in same bed with BOYS he is not related with

FACT....FACT...FACT...FACT


He Admitted it. Michael Joseph Jackson ADMITTED this

I mean 43 year old Michael jackson admitted this cause the documentary was 2003

DAMN...So that means he was doing this since 1993 and before

HOLY CRAP.....20 + years of sleeping in same bed as kids not related

It doesnt make u a pedophile BUT when you look at it DAAAAMN DAAAMN DAAAAAMN

MJ is the only BROTHA who can get away with sleeping in the same bed with kids not related to him for 20 years

But its all innocent

MJ is the only human on PLANET EARTH who can get away with sleeping in bed with kids UNRELATED for 20 + years
[Edited 9/10/09 22:26pm]

MOL

Lets forget about the evidence and agree to disagree on that.

1. Jordie Chandler - 1992/1993
2. Culkin - 1990,1991,1992
3, Wade Robson - 1990,1991,1992
4. Bret Barnes - 1992.1993
5 Gavin - 2003
6. Maids Son - 1992/1993


Realistically we know others have slept in his bed before.

Now this doesnt make MJ a pedophile BUT name a HUMAN BEING on PLANET EARTH who has had multiple kids in his bed NOT RELATED over 20 years
[Edited 9/10/09 22:34pm]

Your a fucken idiot man. She example the whole bed shit a thousand times already.Go back and read it. He lost his respect and was forced to move to another country. The man kids are going to get teased by this shit for the rest of there lifes. He did not get away man...he lost everything. Now that he's dead you want people to only speak about the court cases and shit. How old are you man? you seem like a 14 year old that's sad that MJ is getting all this love. Keep bumping this thread like a fucken retard repeating the same shit.
[Edited 9/10/09 23:12pm]
[Edited 9/10/09 23:17pm]
[Edited 9/10/09 23:18pm]

Actually MOL and i are responding equally so we are both bumping the thread. Your just upset at my point,

35 year old man living in Lakewood California on the corner of Del Amo and 229th street. Grown ass man having kids over on a regular basis sleeping in the same bed eating cookies and drinking milk.

The entire neghborhood would be like WTF.... Little Jason jr stay yo ass in the house until your 18. Little anthony the 2nd, your not leaving this house until your 18. Molly, you can forget about going anywhere outide of our backyard

voyevoda said:

There are people with whom it's impossible to have a conversation. Usually, those people have a low IQ or want attention. I've proven, many times, that MJ was not a paedophile but BabyBeMine's IQ is too low to accept the facts.

BabyBeMine said:

I would report it to authorities so that the person could be properly investigated. That's what happened with Michael Jackson; he was investigated and nothing bad was found. Happy? You have been insisting on that argument since the beggining of our discussion. Too afraid of facing the facts?

You people are so fucking judgemental.

MOL said:

What FACTS? Your information is only REASONABLE DOUBT...Not 100% prove MJ was innocent

The only ppl that know it was 100% true or not is MJ and the kid he was with

Call me names all you want. Bottom line is MJ slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler for 30 straight days.

It doesnt make him a pedophile BUT only a pedophile would do that. MJ did things only a pedophile would do

1. sleep in bed with kids NOT RELATED
2. have a house built for kids

The GQ article does not prove MJ was 100% innocent. Just REASONABLE DOUBT

The former employees accepting money for there stories does not mean they are lying. Maybe there broke and needed some cash

MJ winning a lawsuit against former employees does not mean he was innocent. Maybe he had a great laywer WHILE there lawyer/attorney was working from a south central LA office just above the laundry mat.

BabyBeMine said:

WHAT FACTS? After posts and posts based on court transcripts, intense research and witnesses, you ask me "what facts"? I'm not being subjective.

Read this:
Now there is no way around this one. Eventually a second accuser appears. At first, along with some other 30 boys, Jason Francia adamently denied being molested. But then police bent on getting a confession started to step it up.

They adopt the approach that it is okay to lie to get your man.

The following is taken from and article titled The Day the Meida and Other Vultures Lost Millions of Dollars found at MJEOL.COM and talks about Jason Francia in realease court documents after the 2005 trial:

The maid’s son, Jason Francia, at first looked promising to the media…until cross-examination. His testimony fell apart and even conflicted with his mother’s at a crucial point. The jury foreman later went on to tell a whiny Nancy Grace in a post-trial interview that the maid’s son was leaving too many “little loopholes” in his testimony and that Francia reminded them of Janet Arvizo

“OUCH!” When we get to the third boy’s family you’ll be introduced to Janet Arvizo and see what I mean by that exclamation “ouch.” Also, we’ll go over the jury foreman’s post-trial interview in more detail later on this page. The MJEOL.COM article continues:

That side of Francia’s testimony wasn’t covered by the collective media in any detail at the time. It wasn’t until the release of a defense court document that the public first found out about Francia’s police questioning when he was a child. He had been lied to by police to solicit an allegation against Jackson. They lied to him, telling him that Jackson was molesting Mac Culkin, and that Corey Feldman was a drug-head who would probably die early because he hung out with Jackson. They wanted Francia to “help them” help the kid who was being abused. Oh no! No inducements to lie there! Francia’s convenient memory, too, was a concern to many who were reading the transcript of his testimony. Francia could supposedly remember things that happened over a decade ago, but couldn’t remember things which happened a few months before his 2005 testimony.

Both Macauley Caulkin and Corey Feldman have both adamently denied being molested by Michael Jackson.

Transcipts from one of the police interviews with Jason Francia goes as follows:

Det. Neglia: I realize how hard this is. I realize how painful it is to think of these things you tried so hard not to think about but you are doing fine. And you are also helping the kid that he is bothering now.

Jason Francia: What do you mean he’s bothering?

Det. Birchim: He’s doing the same thing.

Jason Francia: Macauly Culkin.

Det. Neglia: Only he’s getting a lot more into it. Like your mother pulled you out of there. Macaulay’s mother is not going to pull him out of there. They are feeding him.

Det. Birchim: He’s doing worse stuff.

Det. Neglia: It’s much worse with him.

Mary Fisher’s Oct 1994 GQ article corroborates this lie-to-catch-an-abuser type approach used by police officers. Fisher explains:

The police also employed aggressive investigative techniques — including allegedly telling lies — to push the children into making accusations against Jackson. According to several parents who complained to Bert Fields, officers told them unequivocally that their children had been molested, even though the children denied to their parents that anything bad had happened. The police, Fields complained in a letter to Los Angeles Police Chief Willie Williams, “have also frightened youngsters with outrageous lies, such as ‘We have nude photos of you.’ There are, of course, no such photos.” One officer, Federico Sicard, told attorney Michael Freeman that he had lied to the children he’d interviewed and told them that he himself had been molested as a child, says Freeman.

In fact, from tape transcripts the young teenager Jason Francia was badgered by cops.

Attorney Thomas Meserau questions Jason Francia:

Q. Do you remember in that interview one sheriff telling you, “Mr. Jackson is a molester,” and the other saying, “He makes great music, he’s a great guy, bullshit”? Do you remember that?

A. I don’t remember that specifically, but I think I remember hearing it on the tape, which was my voice, or his voice.

Add to this that Jason’s mother Blanca—during her employ at Neverland—was caught trying to steal a watch, rifling through Michael Jackson’s wallet and was a tardy employee that Neverland staff learned not to trust despite her near-plausible excuses. As a result, it’s easy to see how the relationship between Michael’s Neverland staff and Blanca Francia eventually soured.

The funny thing is that although the police provided the Francia’s with motive (“hey he’s hurt others, your testimony could really save those boys and others like them”), the Francia family didn’t care enough even to help the police after Jason Francia’s testimony evolved into something they could now use.

That’s right, instead of saving other boys from the mitts of Jackson as the deputies had suggested, they decided to follow the lead of the first family, the money settlement of which had recently become public knowledge.

Now, bearing in mind that the Sheriff’s deputies had no doubt convinced the Francia’s that Michael Jackson was now, without a doubt, a low life, any money made on their part could be framed as getting back at a abuser, instead of a shameful way to make a quick buck. So lawyer’s for the Francia family decide to make Michael’s legal team aware of Jason’s latest testimony and asked for damages.

Off course, Michael Jackson was emotionally exhausted from the ordeal concerning the claims of the first accuser. And an over-confident media whose one-sided reporting had forever tarnished his good name as an advocate for vulnerable children.

And it’s easy to see that if that testimony at face value was swallowed wholesale, this second witness would not make a second trial easy. And the Francia’s did not seek an inordinately large amount of money (”hey, if we push Michael he may fight back and then what?”), especially when you consider Michael Jackson’s net worth in the hundreds of millions at the time.

So $2.5 million dollars was paid out from Michael Jackson’s own coffers (unlike the first accuser’s family where Michael’s insurance company appears to have paid out over his objections) to end the lingering nightmare, Michael Jackson seeking to get on with his life.

To Jason’s credit, however, he did initially try and stick up for Michael Jackson as deputies tried to cajol him with their toolkit of shannigans. In the 2005, defence lawyer Thomas Mesereau reminds him of his original efforts:

Q. Do you remember stating in that interview, “They made me come out with a lot more stuff I didn’t want to say. They kept pushing. I wanted to get up and hit them in the head”? Do you remember that?

A. No.

Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show you the transcript of that?

A. Probably not. But you can show it to me anyway.

…

Q. Do you remember anything you said in that interview at the moment?

A. Not really. (4908-4909 (20-15))

So in the first paragraph of the above transcipt Jason Francia reports that he resists the words the police are trying to put into his mouth and testifies to the fact that they are actively trying to do so.

Again let’s visit a police interview from 1994 that is quite astonishing since Jason Francia appears to confess in a taped interview that he was getting his story straight or up to par? Mesereau continues his courtroom questioning Jason Fancia:

Q. Okay. Do you remember telling the interviewers, when you were asked do you remember anything that he said, you said, “No, I’m working on that”?

A. No. …

Q. — that was recorded – all right? – when asked if Mr. Jackson said anything to you about whether you should discuss what happened, do you remember telling the interviewers, “No, but I’m working on that”?

A. I do not remember that.

Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show you the transcript?

A. No. But — you could bring it over.

Q. Well, I can’t unless you’re willing to see if it refreshes your recollection.

A. Okay. Bring it over. I’ll give it a shot. I’ll read it just to see if it refreshes my memory. (4941 (11-23|28), 4942 (1-16))

What the flying fish does the accuser mean when he says “No, but I’m working on that”?!!!

Working on getting his story straight or up to par with the Sheriff officers’ specifications?

The Version we got from reporters who exited the courtroom to provide their play-by-play version to awaiting cameras, was vastly different from how the jury was perceiving Jsaon Francia’s testimony.

The media continued to refer to the solid and emotional testimony of Jason Francia the “youth pastor.”Who often does the electronic media reverence people of faith? And to what degree does participation in a religion indicate integrity? Unfortunately not enough.

Consider the following transcript from Nancy Gracy who quite openly detests Michael Jackson. Paul Rodriguez was the Jury Foreman for the 2005 trial:

GRACE: Mr. Rodriguez, did you believe the boy that came in that is now a youth minister that stated Jackson molested him in the past?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, we got a little problem with that because he had no idea where some of his money came from, and he didn’t want to talk to his mother. And so those kind of things that we kind of didn’t focus on, but it did keep — we kept that in the back of our minds.

GRACE: So would it be safe to say you did not believe him?

RODRIGUEZ: Yes, we had a hard time believing him. …

GRACE: Yes. What about the one kid that became a youth minister, who stated plainly Jackson molested his — fondled his genitals?

RODRIGUEZ: Again, like you said earlier, you know, about his scenario or his testimony, it was hard to buy the whole story, when he acted like he knew nothing about it. I mean, he acted so much like the mother of the other accuser, you know, he just didn’t seem that credible.

He didn’t seem to convince us, like we wanted to be convinced. And he just — he was leaving too many little loopholes in his statements.

(see Grace Transcript June 13 2005)

Mary Fisher, who wrote the definitive 1994 article a the first accuser and some of the aftermath had witnessed so of the money grubbing from Jason Francia’s mother: She explains there:

Next came the maid. On December 15, Hard Copy presented “The Bedroom Maid’s Painful Secret.” Blanca Francia told Dimond and other reporters that she had seen a naked Jackson taking showers and Jacuzzi baths with young boys. …and yet later… [u]nder deposition by a Jackson attorney, Francia admitted she had never actually see Jackson shower with anyone nor had she seen him naked with boys in his Jacuzzi. They always had their swimming trunks on, she acknowledged.

The demonizing of Michael Jackson by prosecutors willing to tell graphic lies to children (and parents) to curry revulsion and provide justification for them to do the world a favor by remembering things differently from their initial statements; the thieving maid, Blanca Francia, who finally admits that she didn’t see what she had publicly declared she had on tabloid TV who gave her $20,000 to do so; and her son, the accuser who confesses on tape that he in 1994 was now apparently working on getting his story up to par or in line with deputies expectations!

Wow, that’s rich!


HOW CAN YOU SAY THE MAN RAPED CHILDREN? THESE ARE, INDEED, FACTS! I've given you the facts. MJ didn't rape children.

BabyBeMine said:

You are THAT dumb, aren't you? I never said that the employees were lying based on the fact that they accepted money from tabloids. I said they were lying based on the fact that their stories kept changing, based on a National Enquirer reporter secret tapes, based on their testimonies during the 2005 trial. For example: the chef said Macauly Culkin had been raped and Culkin said he HAD NOT been raped. The chauffer admitted, on court, that he was lying. McManus also admitted that she had lied and that she never saw Jackson doing anything wrong. I NEVER USED THE "PAID BY TABLOIDS" excuse. The bodyguard also said he was lying.


"MJ winning a lawsuit against former employees does not mean he was innocent. Maybe he had a great laywer WHILE there lawyer/attorney was working from a south central LA office just above the laundry mat."- AGAIN? I'VE ALREADY ANSWERED THIS ON A POST- READ MY POSTS FIRST. That's the problem: you never read what I post, otherwise you wouldn't be so redundant.

Your upset cause i believe yoyr hero who didnt even want to be black is a pedophile. I look at the little things and not always the big things. Its sometimes the little things that make it all add up

Ok lets say your right about some above facts you just presented. This is what i look at

1. Going on a trip with a 13 year old boy (Jordie Chandler) and his mother

2. MJ chooses to sleep in the same bed during that trip with Jordie and not Jordie's mother who was very attractive

3. Admits to sleeping in same bed as kids NOT RELATED

4. Getting dropped off late at night at Jordie's house and being picked up in the morning

5. Building a house for kids

6. Opportunities with Tatiana and Brooke and didnt want them

7. Marries lisa Marie right after allegations. COVER UP

8 20 Million dollar settlement

If your innocent you dont settle PERIOOD

MJ settled NOT because of fear of going to trial but to keep all those nasty details locked up. Unfortunately smoking gun for hold of them a couple of years ago

Have you, Baby, ever read one of my posts? Have you?

BabyBeMine said:

I've answered all of these things. I've answered topic 4 5 times. 5 times. One more proof that you didn't read my posts.

BabyBeMine said:

For the third time: It was epic records insurance company that settled against Michael's wishes. That's written on the settlement document. I've given all the evidence from the 93 case...but you keep saying the same stuff over and over again.


Besides, Jackson did not fit in the profile of a pedophile.

MOL said:

You didnt have a answer for these points

ernestsewell said:

I agree with you completely. I would also add that Michael did have a lot of problems, but pedophilia was not one of them. We'll never know for sure, but I think he thought of himself as a boy, not as an adult. After his death I realized just how sad his life was, and what abuse can often do to a child - keep them trapped as an adolescent inside an adult's body.

1. MJ did go on a trip with Jordie and his mother and slept in the same bed as Jordie and NOT Jordie's mother who was attractive

2. MJ did build a house for kids

3 MJ did admit to sleeping in bed with kids UNRELATED


4.MJ did settle for 20 million. I dont buy your excuse cause it was MJ's money


He settled to prevent the DIRTY LAUNDRY from getting released

BabyBeMine said:

YES, I did. I answered those points. But you prefered to ignore my posts. I've been answering those topics for centuries. Go read my posts again. I've answered those topics more than once.

You would be more credible if you at least admitted some things were true. It's like you have a denial for each and everything. I bet you feel MJ really did have 2 nose jobs.

MJ was dropped off at Jordie's late at night. You know dog on well thats true

BabyBeMine said:

"MJ was dropped off at Jordie's late at night."- That came from the chauffer who admitted that he lied.
"You would be more credible "- LOL. You are the one who isn't credible since you know nothing about the cases. You never used a fact in order to back up your claims.
"It's like you have a denial for each and everything."- I gave you facts. I gave you evidence. Are you sure that I'm the one who has a denial? I've answered each and every one of your doubts/accusations with facts. Yet, you refuse to read my posts and you keep posting the same thing over and over again. I'm not the one who has a denial.

"You know dog on well thats true"- No. I don't. I researched about it and reached one conclusion: that's not true.