BabymeMine, you know that Vanity Fair is one of the least credible magazines out there.

You know even Ian Halperin, the one who wrote the sensational book about MJ said he was not a child molester.

BabyBeMine said:

Well I am done with you. I can be a nasty bitch but you are not worth it. I see what you're saying, but you just don't want to see the bigger picture. Instead of reading tabloids and magazines, go and read the official transcripts of what the investigators found. Botton line, you only see what you want to see and keep bringing up the same stuff over and over, completely ignoring the other responses.

I think Michael was innocent, but I do think he had some mental issues. You don't look at it that way, for you everything he did was because he was a pedophille. End of story. I don't think you know more than the 12 jurors did when he was aquitted. They heard all the evidence and decided he wasn't guilty of any of those charges. So there. I'm done with you.

BabyBeMine said:

its obvious you got your teeth wrapped around dez dickersons cock, hence your pathetic atttempt to convince us with your "facts".

the fact is, you're a fucking floon, and a Prince floon at that.

I never thought I'd see a Prince floon go off the rails, but it looks like you did.
If you can't handle the pressure then leave.

now please fuck off and let sane people have a conversation!
if you want to discuss your fascination with pedo's then go elsewhere, its obvious you have a sick mind.

The fact you can't understand simple facts obviously shows your inept and warped view of reality.

I suggest you go back to the mental institute you've been living in for the past few years, otherwise they might have to hunt you down and then lock you up again.

dirtyman

Why does your's information have to be fact and 100% accurate? You nore anyone has provided anything that proves 100% innocents and the same as myself the other way. The GQ article does not prove 100% innocents. The father being greedy does not make his son a liar. The Maid accepting 20,000 from Hard Copy does not mean her son lied. The security guard who said he witnessed MJ in the act, accepting money does not make him a liar. How do you know he wasnt threatened?

My arguments, your excuses have been they went to tabloids and got money. My argument was they were threatened by Michael's security along with Pellicano and the Maid was not exactly well off financially so 20,000 from Hard Copy is a lot for her.

Dirtyman ur just made cause i dont believe you.

BabyBeMine said:

I've answered all your doubts in previous posts. GO READ MY POSTS!

midnightmover said:

Nope. YOU are the one who has wrong "facts". You even defended Victor Gutierrez who admitted, in 94/95 that he didn't have any tape.
Second: the description didn't mach. Funnily enough, after those pics were taken, Sneddon refused to pursue a criminal trial. Hummm...forgot about that?
The source wasn't Randy T.. I haven't even read the guy's book. The source were COURT TRANSCRIPTS. Ever heard about that? Don't you dare insulting me: I didn't give you confidence.

Prove that thing about Pellucano. C'mon.

"The fact that MJ hired this man shows that Michael was willing to stoop to any lengths to beat this rap, even hiring cheap hoods like Pellicano."- STICK TO THE DISCUSSION. I can also say many things about MJ as a humanitarian and pure person. But it's not related to the discussion.What about Torbiner? What about the parents and kids who testified? WERE THEY LYING?
What about former employees giving testimonies full of innacuracies?

BabyBeMine said:

Nobody is giving the tabloids/greedy parents excuse. I've given you "excuses" based on court transcripts.
The security guard? EHEHEHEH! Go read court transcripts: the part in which he testifies. And BTW, you can also go to his site: Virtual sin- a pornographic site...despite the fact that i doubt that it is still open....


" You nore anyone has provided anything that proves 100% innocents and the same as myself the other way. "- I have!
"The father being greedy does not make his son a liar."- NOBODY said that.
"The Maid accepting 20,000 from Hard Copy does not mean her son lied. "- But the jury laughing while he was testifying, does men that he lied. The fact that he is married to one of Sneddon's daughters...

" My argument was they were threatened by Michael's security along with Pellicano and the Maid was not exactly well off financially so 20,000 from Hard Copy is a lot for her."- If they were threatened why did they testify? Why did they continue to accept money from tabloids and CHANGING THEIR STORY? Why did they continue to speak about the charges? Why were some of them arrested?

"the Maid was not exactly well off financially so 20,000 from Hard Copy is a lot for her."- I have talked about the maid many times. WHY DO YOU KEEP IGNORING MY POSTS?

BabyBeMine said:

let's stick with the real facts.

1.GQ article isn't bullshit. Don't forget about Torbine, the key witness who, at first, refused to colaborate with Fischer.
Pellicano didn't scare anyone. It was proven, on court, that he didn't threaten anyone related to this case. Otherwise...why has so many people talked to newspapers? If they had been threatened...
"Things started going bad for Pellicano when he worked for actor Steven Seagal. LA Times reporter Anita Busch was investigating Seagal’s mob ties. Someone left a fish, a rose, and a note with the word “Stop” on Busch’s car. His alleged accomplice has fingered Pellicano for hiring him to do the job."- THAT'S WHY THE GUY WAS ARRESTED.

2.FOR THE 1000TH TIME (YOU CLEARLY DON'T READ WHAT I POST):I'VE ANSWERED THIS. The chauffeur was a part of Neverland five. He was successfully sued by Michael, in 1995, for saying shit like that. BTW, the chauffer said that in Hard Copy. Besides, he also said that Jackson had raped Brett Barnes. Brett said that Jackson HADN'T raped him. The chauffer, who said that, was sued for lying! SUCCESSFULY SUED. ON COURT, he changed this story and said that he would drive Chandler to Jackson's house everyday and that the two would make out in his car. When asked why hand't he told the police about that, he answered: "No one would believe me." (5 other witnesses said the same). When asked why had his story changed, he said that he had been offered a certain (don't rememeber how much) amount of money in order to do so.

THAT STORY WAS MADE UP BY THE CHAUFFER! HE BASICALLY ADMITTED THAT, ON COURT!

3.June insisted that Jordie went on tour with Michael...and didn't mind the two sharing a bed! Is this normal? No. Was Michael normal? Hell no! Does this mean he was a paedophile? No way. All the parents (thirty two) testified that they had never seen Michael crying or buying them stuff in order to sleep with their kids. The kids were the ones who wanted to sleep with MJ and the parents were invited to sleep with him as well. For the 10000th time:"As Mesereau said "Women testified that they stayed in his room.And by the way, his room is a a two-story duplex, a huge duplex.
That’s what we call his room.And women stayed there, mothers stayed there, parents stayed there,kids stayed there. And any time a child came up to him and said, “we wantto play in your room,” which he has arcade games and that kind of thing,he always said, “I want your parents here right now, and I want their permission.”And the parents were free to stay. And we had parents testifying who did stay.So a lot of this was spin by the prosecution because they wanted to demonize him. They had nothing to deal with in the courtroom."

4.If she was threatened then why did she continue to seel stories? mIf she was threatened then why did she refuse to give the Presley sketch she stole from Michael? If she was threatened, then why did she testify? If she was threatened then why did her story kept changing (for the worst)? Hummmmm.....!!!! What about the jury giggling when Jason cried abuse? What about Jason being married to one of Sneddon's daughters?


LET'S STICK WITH THE REAL FACTS!

Im not ignoring your post.Your post only show potential reasonable doubt like the OJ Simpson case back in 1994. If the glove don"t fit then you must acquitt. Your post don't prove MJ is innocent.

BabyBeMine said:

YES, you are! You keep repeating the same things over and over again. Things that I've already answered!

MICHAEL JACKSON DID NOT RAPE BOYS. READ ALL MY POSTS! IT'S CLEAR THAT MJ DID NOT RAPE BOYS.

In the OJ case there was DNA evidence!

BabyBeMine said:

Corey Feldman, Macauley Culkin, all went to MJ's memorial.

If he ever did anything to them, do you think they would have came?? Do you think Culkin, Barnes, would have testified on his behalf in the trial- if he did something to them???
[Edited 9/8/09 13:11pm]

midnightmover said:[quote]

MOL said:

I actually knew about "The circumcision story" in Ian Halperin's book. Ian was so convinced that MJ was a paedophile that he was going to write a book named "Peter Pan or Pervert". However, after hours and hours looking at evidence, he reached one conclusion: Michael Jackson did not rape children.

MOL said:[quote]

midnightmover said:

And Aprodhite Jones thought that MJ was a molester too, but later took back her words when she read though all the legal evidence she obtained for her book.

midnightmover said:

First: Go call your mama floon, not me or any other MJ fan with whom you have no personal relationship.
Second: MJ shared his bed with everyone: girls, boy's parents. Liza Minneli's former husband threatened her saying that he would divorce her if she continued to sleep with Jackson. Many girls testified that they slept with him. Many women testified that they slept with him. Nicole Ritchie said she slep with him. Liz Taylor, a journalist whose name I can't remember (read Ian Halperin's book).

Why sleep with everyone, you ask? Because he had an arrested development.

" it was only ever boys who were invited to share intimate one-on-one time with him."- boys, women, man, girls....they usually slept in groups, BTW.

Black boys? EHEHEHEH! J. Chandler was black!!! Did you know that the average paedophile has 240-280 victims?

"Didn't they deserve some of his "love" too?"- What about the black boys who testified?
[Edited 9/8/09 13:24pm]
[Edited 9/8/09 13:26pm]

Midnightmover, WATCH this video:

http://www.youtube.com/wa...yQsYdrVuyQ


Gavin Arvizo BEGGED to sleep with Jackson. According to the timeline, he begged to sleep with Jackson after the alleged molestation!

INTERESTING, UH?
[Edited 9/8/09 13:29pm]
[Edited 9/8/09 13:29pm]

BabyBeMine said:

5. Nope. Did you hear what Nicole ritchie said?
Besides, many women and girls testified that they slept MANY times with Jackson. READ Macauly Culkin's sister testimony.

6.From a previous post which you obviously didn't read:
"Nope. You are just seeing one version. June Chandler admitted to Pellicano that she didn't think Jackson was a pedophile, that Jordan loved Michael and that she told her son to go on tour with him. When Evan blackmailed June with the custody of their son, she told him, according to Rothman and Pellicano, that Jackson was "a gentleman" and that "she had never been treated so well by a man". She refused to collaborate with her ex-husband. When confronted with that fact, on court, she replied "no comment" and that "she didn't remember". WOW...she must have Alzheimer. What about June Chandler telling Jordan to go with Jackson receiving an award...and to stay in the same hotel room? Do you forgot to read this, BabyBeMine?
Evan Chandler encouraged Jordan to sleep with Jackson. In fact, he told him to build a "small house in Neverland" for the Chandler family.

"She admitted that she has not spoken to her son (who is now 25) in eleven years, which she claims is not her choice."- It's Jordan's choice. Why do you think he stopped talking to both parents? Strange, uh?

"The Prosecution claim that Michael has a "pattern" of bribing his accusers and their families, Chandler stated under questioning by Santa Barbara District Attorney Tom Sneddon that the day after letting her son sleep in the same bed as Michael she received a gold bracelet."- A pattern? EHEEHEH. If he had a pattern of doing something wrong, he would have done it more than 2 times. What about 240 times [the average for a pedophile]? You are basing your posts on what Sneddon says? That's biased and unfair. June Chandler stated, on court, that Jordan seemed to like the sleepovers. Wade Robson, Brett Barnes and countless others, claim that their mother never received "presents" in order to let their sons sleep with Jackson. What about the mothers who were interviewed? What about a mother saying that she slept in the same room as Jackson and her sons and that she was never forced/bribed to let it happen? What about a mother claiming that her son INSISTED that he wanted to sleep in the same room as Jackson? DID YOU FORGET TO READ THIS?

"Chandler said that she was "given (Michael's) credit card" to go shopping with her daughter. She said she was also later given a ring, a pair of earrings, a necklace and a $7,000 gift certificate for a Hollywood boutique as gifts."- Nope. June doesn't have a daughter. Evan does. Her only child was Jordan Chandler. She said that Michael would give her gifts when she was down because of Dave Swartchz and Evan Chandler. Sneddon said that "It was suspect". Mesereau said that she couldn't prove it. When asked about the Pellicano conversation, once again, she responded "no comment". BabyBeMine: Evan Chandler first talked to a psychiatrist (who testified on court) and described him a hipothetical case of abuse. The psychiatrist, whose name I think is Katz, asked him if the "hypothetical case" had any truth behind it. Evan said "no". The same day, apparently, he talked to Michael confroting him about having stopped talking to him and telling him that he should "build a small house in Neverland" for the Chandler family. He encouraged Jordan and Michael to sleep together. WHY IS THAT? WHY AFTER TALKING ABOUT A HYPOTHETICAL CASE OF RAPE, CHANDLER ENCOURAGES JACKSON TO SLEEP WITH HIS KID? Interesting! After some time, Evan blackmailed Jackson; if he didn't buy him 4 movie scripts worth 5 millions each, something would happen. Pellicano told him that "it was extortion" and that "no money would get out of Michael's pocket". When June Chandler knew about this she, reportedly confronted Evan, who blackmailed her. And, funnily enough, she just started saying that Jackson was a big, nasty pedophile after the blackmail. What is also funny is that Jordan first told Katz that nothing had happened (in a room alone with Evan and Katz). Ohhh!!! Read "MJ conspiracy". You will see a "lovely" photo of little Jordan with some bruises and, according to the timeline, after the first session with Katz. Interesting, don't you think, BabyBeMine?

"MJ crying cause he can't sleep with her son. Aint that some sh****t. Its the little things that make this all add up. Mike was straight up PIMPIN her son and giving her gifts to keep her distant from what was really going on."- I WILL REPEAT THIS FOR THE 1000th time. The prosecution called 80 alleged victims. 1 of them didn't appear: Jordan. Two (Jason and Gavin) said they had been raped. Jason's mama, the maid, said "My son was tickled. I wanted money and I took it". Jason's testimony was full of innacuracies being later dismissed by the jury. The other 77 "victims" said that they WERE NEVER INVITED to sleep in Jackson's room. As Mesereau said "Women testified that they stayed in his room.And by the way, his room is a a two-story duplex, a huge duplex.
That’s what we call his room.And women stayed there, mothers stayed there, parents stayed there,kids stayed there. And any time a child came up to him and said, “we wantto play in your room,” which he has arcade games and that kind of thing,he always said, “I want your parents here right now, and I want their permission.”And the parents were free to stay. And we had parents testifying who did stay.So a lot of this was spin by the prosecution because they wanted to demonize him. They had nothing to deal with in the courtroom."

"The only DEFENSE for this is she was lying."
Listen BabyBeMine: It's her word against the defense's. Who says she is telling the truth? And you know nothing. The defense had Pellicano, Rothman, other boy's moms, et cetera, who said that Jackson didn't do what June said he did. So, the defense had a lot against June. DID YOU READ JUNE'S ANSWERS? Did you read what Pellicano said about her? June remembered talking to Pellicano, but, funnily enough, didn't remember what she had told him! She remember the things Jackson allegedly gave her, but doesn't remember the things she told both Evan and Pellicano. The only thing the prosecution could do was saying that June was "disturbed" and "shocked" and that's why she didn't remember anything. Did you forget to read this... BabyBeMine? What about Katz saying that Jordan seemed stoned? What about Katz talking about early meeting with Evan? You prefered to ignore it. You prefered to just read what the prosecution said. "


7. Again, from a previous post:"What about a newsman for KCBS-TV asking Evan Chandler if he had administered a drug on Jordie? Chandler claimed that he had used a drug to pull his son's tooth.
Torbiner, the man who was at the dental consultory with Evan when Jordan said he was raped, boasted that he had $100 a month in overheads and an income of $40000 a month by providing services to various dental offices around L.A. on a freelance basis. At the time of Fischer's article, he was reportedly being probed by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration for adiministreing drugs, such as Morphine and Demerol, to patients for pain unrelated to dental work. In fact, it was Torbine's nondental practice that brought him to the attention of Evan Chandler. He was introduced to Torbine by Rothman, who had hired Torbine at least eight times to apply general anesthetic during hair transplants procedures. Dr. Yarman, responsible for the hair transplants told Fischer that he was "amazed" to learn about Torbine's background. But...does it mean that Evan used sodyum amytal? Fisher went straight to the sources and asked Mark Torbine whether he used sodyum amytal during Jordan's procedure. Rather than deny it, he told Fischer, "If I used it, it was for dental purposes. But yes, I used it"."



THESE ARE FACTS!

BabyBeMine said:

The book wasn't called "The lost boys". I don't remember the name and I won't read Unmasked again just to know the book's name. The book had one picture of a boy and a girl naked hugging or some shit like that. It also had many pictures of children. The book was acclaimed and yes, it was art (it had received some awards). The book was given by a fan. In the book's first page there was one thing written:" Xoxo, love, love, love, RHOnda."

Read Ian Halperin's "unmasked". You can read it online. There weren't books with child pornography or with boys naked/semi undressed.
[Edited 9/8/09 13:48pm]

One more thing:

Babybemine, you have already mentioned the book, at least 3 times. I have already posted about the book at least 3 times. Why do you keep ignoring what I post? Why do you keep talking about something that I have already answered? Why do you keep insisting?

You keep talking about the maid, the Neverland five. I keep answering about the maid and the Neveland Five.

You keep posting everything the prosecution said. I keep answering everything. BUT YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE ME!

WOW,,,When you have to explain away that much there has got to be some fire there. I can se if it was 1 case with no potential witnesses but here we have a couple of cases, witnesses but there is a excuse for each and everyone.

By the way i think Latoya was telling the truth back in the early 90's about her brother. She only chnaged cause she missed her family and didn't want them to hate her. I do think she was abused but disagree that her ex husband made her say there were many checks written out to the families of several kids and a time when they were outside and MJ was looking at this kid like he was feelin him. Latoya asked MJ why are you looking at him like that? MJ said nothing and kinda giggled.

The excuse will be she was abused blah blah blah. Bottom line is she said it and like you say about the witnesses. WHY DIDNT U GO TO AUTHORITIES? Latoya could have gone to police about her abuse.

prodigalfan said:

It's gross, gross, gross, gross, gross!

BabyBeMine said:

It's serious. It's a child molestation case. So, yes: I, and everyone who wants to make a point, has to "explain away that much". MJ is a pedophile because I have to explain away that much? Yes, there were witnesses. They went to court and gave testimonies full of innacuracies. Their stories keep changing. Don't forget about E. Chandler's tape: "I have already paid people to say some things (...)". Know who Barresi is? Have you already heard the N. Enquirer's secret tapes? You will see that there is, in fact, "excuses for each and everyone". I've given you the facts. All you can say is that I "have excuses". If I don't explain, then it's because I don't have evidence. If I explain, then It's becaus I am inventing "excuses for each and everyone".


Latoya hadn't seen Michael in 6 years. She was severily abused by Jack Gordon. Yes,her husband made her say that, since he made lots of money by going to talk-shows and stuff.
...
Latoya never said that. She said that she "couldn't stay with her mouth closed while innocent and small children were being abused". Besides, no one is dumb enough to give money to a family without a proper settlement. The family would use that money and say that they had been paid to shut up. That would be enough evidence to go to trial or to try a settlement. "Person X gave me this money. Because the money wasn't a result from an out of court settlement or indmnization, I will say that it was hush money in order to make me shut up and so I'll say that person X abused my kid. If X hadn't abused my kid, then why did X gave me that money? That's enough evidence, in the eyes of the law, that X abused my kid. I will try a settlement out of court or go to trial."
She called her brother Randy and said that she was being abused. Randy was the one who reported the abused to the authorities. Latoya had several bruises mainly on the back of her head.

There was a video somewhere of her saying that, in Israel.

Point is: you are completely misinformed. You twisted everything she said. AMAZING!
[Edited 9/8/09 14:57pm]

BabyBeMine said:

LaToya in her 1992 book praised Michael.

Whatever she did in 1993, it was because of Jack Gordon.

She also was isolated from her family for six years.
[Edited 9/8/09 15:07pm]

MOL said:

Wrong. Latoya also talked about MJ on the Geraldo Rivera show and she did in fact say she had seen checks written out to families for boy's and she did for a FACT give a example of 1 time when they were living in encino and MJ looked at this 1 particular kid in a way that made Latoya ask him why are you looking at that kid like that?


It was Latoya's excuse to her family that her husband made her say that. Now naturaly the MJ defenders will ROLL with that excuse because they are defending him and the positive stuff is automatically true and anything negative is automatically false.

I have my opinion which is she was telling the truth and needed a excuse for her family to accept her back. Had she continued to roll with how she originaly felt she wouldn't be welcomed back.

Stop arguing with this guy. HE DOES NOT READ UR POST. It's like arguing with a wall.
[Edited 9/8/09 15:42pm]

BabyBeMine said:

WRONG!!!
Here's the interview: http://www.youtube.com/wa...hvVFERiKV8

Latoya did mutiple interviews on that subject.

Question? You do know that the top of the notch lawyers who are very experienced with cross examining and can catch even a person telling the truth in inconsistencies. Your on the stand getting drilled and even a person telling the truth can get caught in a inconsistent statement or the laywer make it look at if they were lying or create some doubt.

It happen in the OJ Simpson case with Johnny Cochran. I could kill 20 with 10 witnesses and i bet Johnny could get me off cause he would make the witnesses look like they dont know what the hell they talking about. LOL..You know it's true.

This is why celebrities pay BIG BUCKS for the top notch lawyers.

Some of Michael's ex employees were sued by MJ and MJ won which i agree.

Question? Who was Michael's attorney and who was there's?

I bet it was some LOW BUDGET attorney working in the back of the liquor store on Slauson and Normanie in LA California. No wonder why they lost. MJ with all the power and they got this low budget attorney representing them.

MOL Baby is retarded...just tone him out.

Aw jeez not this shit again....

ARE YOU GUYS THAT LAZY TO READ THE COURT TRANSCRIPTS AND DISCOVER HOW FLAWED THIS CASE WAS?

Here they are, I saved the trouble of you finding them lazy asses.....
http://floacist.wordpress...3-01-2005/