funkteer said:

semantics? This was discussed in my Psychology of Sex textbox of the class i took at college which was the Psychology of Sex.
[Edited 8/9/09 17:26pm]

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

I found this:

http://www.atsa.com/ppPedophiles.html

But still... what is your point? Is one crime more preferable to the other?

New York Times Op-Ed columnist Mr. Bob Herbert piece, "Beyond the Facade" was spot on.

utopia7 said:

jordy chandlers dad said in a recent interview that he wasn't short of money being a hollywood dentist (and mj's dentist) and did it as he thought $20 (18 to jordy and 1m to each parent) would stop him from doing it again. the payout helped jordy to some degree to build a successful business and keep out of the spotlight, whereas for example debbie rowe still pops up from time to time in interviews when the money is running out

the lot of them involved in the second case seemed as bad as each other, one criminal accusing another and back again. a complete farce

the thing is there plenty of rich people in this world, many far richer than MJ but you don't hear about them getting involved in any dodgy scandals like this, so if the stories are made up for money, how come MJ is the only person in the world to have such a problem dealing with it when he has plenty of money to deal with things properly and legally?

but like you say, any normal person would have learned a lesson andy kept away from kids after that, not invite them to thier house for sleep overs and on stage at concerts etc, he just brought it all on himself and only has himself to blame. he didn't lose his childhood, he just had a different one from others, but there are plenty of kids in the world who have a worse childhood, but they don't act like kids when they are adults and play with kids instead of adults

the point someone made that not all peadophiles and rapists abuse everyone is the best way to put it, these people look for victims and only abuse a tiny percentage of people they meet, the ones they think they can get away with. so whilst hundreds of kids may have slept over and nothing happened to them, doesn't mean something didn't happen to some of them. as an adult in the dating game, how many girls do you need to chat up before you find one that takes you on? it's the same numbers game to some degree

Angelic1302 said:

This counter-footage always comes up in defense of MJ with regards to the original documentary.

Although I agree that the original certainly wasn't fair or objective, the Jackson rebutal video misses the point--the audience wasn't shocked by anything Martin Brishir said...they were shocked at Jackson's behavior.

Personally, the scene with MJ and the young boy holding hands and speaking about "acts of love" as being innocent may have been very much true from their perspective (nobody but those two truly know afterall), but it was C-R-E-E-P-Y, CREEPY.

Child molesters go out of their way to hide any signs of evidence which could land them in trouble.

Michael openly admitted that he no issue letting kids sleep in his bed, and said that people mistake it as sexual.

Michael Jackson is an example of an individual who's caught in a boy vs man conflict, and his obvious lack of a normal childhood is the result of why he behaved the way he did.

Everyone knows that childhood is the most important stage in the development of an individual.

RnBAmbassador said:

I don't think those defending MJ are saying sleeping with little boys is cool (unless of course you mean just innocent sleepovers and not something more sinister).
But what they are saying is that the molestation allegations aren't true, and that MJ is nothing more than eccentric and 'different', but that it's ok to be.


When I discovered MJ had stashes of porn in his house (a house he let kids roam freely around) that more or less dampened any sympathy I could muster for him, which wasn't a lot to begin with.
This wasn't a Peter Pan Enuch living in a castle. He obviously had sexual desires/fantasies and the like. Spending most of his social time with children..specifically boys just seems at the VERY least imprudent.

Imago said:

that porn was in his bedroom and his bedroom door has tons of locks on it.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

I certainly think that porn must have come way before he had kids.

The fact that it was locked up shows that he didn't want his kids accidentally getting their hands on it.
[Edited 8/9/09 18:08pm]

It seems stupid and pointless to keep rehashing this debate unless the objective is for the original poster to vent his spleen on MJ for the thousanth time. Number one, no minds will be changed. Those who support MJ will defend his actions and those who don't will be critical...just like the other thousand times the suject was raised.

Number two, MJ is dead, unlike OJ who also keeps getting rehashed, there's nothing that can be done about the charges or the acquittal at this point even if we had new information, which we don't. For all we know he could be standing before the ultimate judge as we speak. Unlike the know-it-alls, I admit that I have no clue what really took place but since the guy is gone I have to face the fact that we may never know any more than we know now.

So what's the real agenda behind starting this thread?

babynoz said:

[Pic snip - luv4u]

babynoz said:

TD3 said:

And notice how this thread has already illustrated his point. All of the MJ defenders have chosen to talk about Martin Bashir being two faced, thus avoiding facing up to the real issue these pieces are addressing. Right there you have a perfect illustration of what Herbert is talking about. If people don't want to see something, they simply look the other way. Any distraction will do, no matter how transparent. We all know Bashir's two faced, but that's not really the point, is it?

Angelic1302 said:

Exactly. Bashir got checked. Thought he pulled a fast one.

children are innocent but they also LIE pushed by their parents to do so especially when GREED comes to mind...especially when they see the individual
is meek in character. With this said, my only wish for Michael was the first time this came about he steer clear of children ALTOGETHER stay with his nieces & nephews until he decided to have and take care of his own children.


It's easy for people to say, yes he did it simply because of how he looked or oddities. But for those who walk among you the ones you TRUST be it your minister/preacher example you'd trust them in a heartbeat! because they appease
your mind. Whatever the case Michael put faith in the WRONG people resulting in
a sad frame of mind.I doubt it was easy being the most famous person in the world.


Amazing even in death keep on let it rest in peace the so-called victims have not uttered a word.Furthermore, if your child was touched NO !amount of money could compensate damages done a parent would want jail time for for justice...Not MONEY

l
but like you say, any normal person would have learned a lesson andy kept away from kids after that, not invite them to thier house for sleep overs and on stage at concerts etc,

the point someone made that not all peadophiles and rapists abuse everyone is the best way to put it, these people look for victims and only abuse a tiny percentage of people they meet, the ones they think they can get away with. so whilst hundreds of kids may have slept over and nothing happened to them, doesn't mean something didn't happen to some of them. as an adult in the dating game, how many girls do you need to chat up before you find one that takes you on? it's the same numbers game to some degree

Michael Jackson had jab to curb sex urges for young boys

*
*

EXCLUSIVE by Kate Mansey in Los Angeles 9/08/2009
Michael Jackson (pic: Getty)

A doctor has revealed how he prescribed Michael Jackson a “chemical castration” drug to suppress his sexual urges towards under-age boys.

Jacko – notorious for sharing his bed with young boys – took a powerful drug given to sex offenders to cool his sexual appetite.

The drug - Depo Provera - was prescribed to him by highly-respected Dr Alimorad Farshchian, who was concerned about Jackson’s behaviour. Normally used for birth control, it restricts men’s flow of testosterone-producing brain hormones.

So more than anything its terrible and SAD that lost in all this is that a person died way before his time, he was a tragic figure in many respects, he sacrificed many things for his giving, but at the same time had deep problems that were brought on by who knows what that were never taken care of early on.

To be honest had MJ and the JACKSON 5 started up now, in this media scrutiny world we are in, his issues would have been forefront 24/7, much like a Britney has been to this time.

okay, this is really ironic that you would bring up Britney Spears. I have said many times... that I blame the JACKSONS.... that is right!

MJ had some oddities and eccentricities that his mama and daddy HAD to know... there was something not right about MJ. Jermaine who keeps bringing his azz on tv talking about MJ should have been talking TO MJ when this stuff FIRST STARTED! And got him into therapy. If he didn't agree, take his azz to court and get him deemed incompetent and have him committed. Britney Spears dad did... Natalie Cole's mom did too. You know what... Spears and Cole's parents said "the HELL with the money, the career, the whole shyte. That is my BABY and I am going to do what is right for MY baby. " and guess what.. Natalie is doing mentally well now, and so too it seems for Britney Spears.

The Jacksons just kept cashing the checks and looking the other way. The only started to talk when NEW hanger ons became more influential to MJ and his drug use became worse... by then it was too late... the Jackson family was out... the hanger ons had their hooks in MJ and they were going to ride that horse (MJ money making) until the horse was worn out... and that is exactly what they did.

Michael Jackson had jab to curb sex urges for young boys

EXCLUSIVE by Kate Mansey in Los Angeles 9/08/2009
Michael Jackson (pic: Getty)

A doctor has revealed how he prescribed Michael Jackson a “chemical castration” drug to suppress his sexual urges towards under-age boys.

Jacko – notorious for sharing his bed with young boys – took a powerful drug given to sex offenders to cool his sexual appetite.

The drug - Depo Provera - was prescribed to him by highly-respected Dr Alimorad Farshchian, who was concerned about Jackson’s behaviour. Normally used for birth control, it restricts men’s flow of testosterone-producing brain hormones.

And asked if Dr Farshchian’s had prescribed drugs to Jacko to curb his sex drive, his spokesman confirmed: “Yes, that’s exactly it. He was trying to help Michael.”

Jacko first met the doctor in 2001 when he sought treatment for a broken foot after slipping on stairs at his Neverland ranch.

But unlike other medics who Jacko latched on to, Dr Farshchian, 47, refused to pander to his demands for non-stop prescriptions. He tried to wean Jacko off Demerol, the narcotic painkiller widely linked to his death six weeks ago.

Sources say Dr Farshchian began prescribing Depo Provera after he became concerned at Jacko’s attitude to young boys at his infamous Neverland sleepovers.

Ian Barkley, Jacko’s official photographer between 2002-06, told the Sunday Mirror: “Dr Farshchian was trying to help Michael. One treatment and concoction led to another. It was a slow progression to try to help Michael suppress some of his issues.”"

Dr Farshchian went on tour with Jacko in 2002-3 and was with him in Berlin when Jacko infamously dangled baby Prince Michael II from a fourth-floor balcony.

At one point Jackson even moved into the doctor’s £800,0000 home in Bay Harbour Island, Miami. Ian added: “Dr Farshchian was very close to Michael.”

Of Jacko’s sleepovers, where children drank “Jesus Juice” wine from cola cans, the photographer said: “People in Michael’s circle thought that something inappropriate was going on when they’d all sleep together at Neverland Ranch.

“The adults around him made a big deal about them all sleeping on the bed in the movie theatre.”

But he said nobody dared challenge the star because the child-like Jacko saw himself as being the same age as his guests.

Advertisement - article continues below »

Ian added: “They were peers. That’s how Michael felt about it. He’d buy them things and give them sips of wine to show off to his peer group.

“He lost out on being a 12-year-old, so he’d get wild and show off for his buddies – even though the boys were still 12 and he was in his 40s. It’s hard to understand if you weren’t there.”"

Ian said that among those at the sleepovers was Frank Cascio, now 28, who was part of Jackson’s entourage from the age of five and toured the world with him in the 1990s.

“Frank would sleep in Michael’s bed all the time when he was younger,” said Ian. “And so did his little brother, who was about 12.” A source close to Dr Farshchian said: “Michael just saw himself as a teenager doing teenage things and not as a predator.

“It was really Dr Farshchian, when he became aware of the sleepovers, who planted the idea in Michael’s head that he might have a problem.

“As a responsible doctor, Dr Farshchian thought these tendencies were something Michael might address. Dr Farshchian didn’t necessarily think there was abuse going on – but he was concerned there were inappropriate feelings towards minors which could be addressed.”

The medic and Jackson grew apart following the fall-out from Jacko’s interview with TV’s Martin Bashir in 2003 which revealed Jacko had children sleeping in his bed – and plunged the star into crisis.

A source said: “When the Bashir documentary came out Michael became severely depressed. He turned back to his old doctors who would prescribe him whatever he wanted and Dr Farshchian wouldn’t do that.

“He was determined to do the right thing for Michael even if it meant disagreeing with him.”

Jacko’s five-month trial in 2005 heard allegations that Neverland was “all about booze, pornography and sex with boys”. He was cleared of sexually abusing Gavin Arvizo, 13, whose family moved to Neverland after being befriended by Jacko.

In 1994, Jacko paid £13million to Jordy Chandler, a former Neverland guest who accused him of performing lewd acts on him when he was 12. And in 1996 Jackson paid Jason Francia, son of Neverland maid Blanca Francia, more than £1million over claims Jacko touched his crotch.

It’s not clear how long the star had injections of Depo Provera.

Last night Dr Farshchian, an expert in arthritis pain relief who has written text books about orthopaedic medicine, declined to discuss Jacko’s treatment. But he said: “When I heard of his death it was the saddest moment of my life. I’m proud I met Mr Jackson.”

kate.mansey@sundaymirror.co.uk



http://www.mirror.co.uk/n...-21583054/

utopia7 said:

I intially thought the same thing. But my DH plyaing devils' advocate made a strong argument that it is believable that a parent may be led to decide that jail or money, neither is going to change the deed that has happened... you can't unring a bell. However, money may ensure

1)that your child can have GOOD therapy to deal with what has happened (a not guilty verdict may result in having to rely on Human Services to get therapy (see accuser #2 who did get a not guilty verdict... what did he get??? nothing!)

2) your child will have a college education

3) you are in a position to try to avoid your child to being a future victim... better neighborhood, not as needy and likely to fall prey to a predator's enticements etc.

I am not saying that a parent was correct in making this decision... but it is believable that a parent could come to this decision.