Fiona01 said:

good point. We were not there in the courtroom and did not hear ALL of the information. The media took infomation and manipulated to reach a conclusion that they wanted the general public to believe. People also don't seem to realize that people can be falsely accused EVEN OF that crime. I've learned of this though my criminolgy classes that I took at college. Even If, I thought Michael was guilty, I'd still be fan of his music and as an entertainer. I do believe Michael had his issues but at the same time was very misunderstood.

unique said:

Can you explain why Jordan hasn't talked to his family and cut off ties with his family for 15 years? The fact that he hasn;t talked to them since 94? This was testified at the trial by Jordan's mother, June Chandler in 2005. Or the fact that Jordan has a restraining order against his dad? Or how Jordan's father got most of the settlement...something like 20 million like that and jordan just got a couple million?

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

----
Sorry but what I am reading is loads of people questioning what I know and getting upset because they do not like my opinion about Mike's behavior. Kind of like people are attacking the messager and letting the subject of the conversation get a pass.

I have read everything on this thread and I feel like too many MJ fans feel that Mike was the victim, can't possibliy be a pedophile, and anyone who does not agree with them is a simpleton or insane.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

--
Because it appears that he was pimped out by his family. Something that happens much more than people want to admit.

laurarichardson said:

In my opinion, Michael was guilty of putting himself in that situation. I don't feel that way as well as many mj fans i'm sure, I can see why some people think that Michael as guilty because in some ways he made himself a sitting duck. But you saying that is somewhat hypocritical because many people who believe that he is guilty and those who disagree are insame...you actually said that most sane ppl believe he is a pedophile so it was you implying that anyone who didn't believe he was a pedophile was insane. That's why Matty Jam got mad. You entitled to your own opinions but just because someone disagrees with you doesn;t mean they are insane.

laurarichardson said:

that does happen. But there no evidence what so ever found in this case.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

--
Once again go back and read Matty Jam's thread. He questioned the sanity of people on the internet as being the only people who think MJ was a sicko. I did not bring up the sanity issue he did.

My response was no more arrogant than his riduculous comment.

As far as being uneducated some law enforcement officers are but none of my family members are uneducated and a few are certified expert sex abuse witnesses for trails.

In order to have a debate/discussion you need to have different points of view and eveybody is not going to agree and some people on this board need to have the maturity level to deal with this.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

-----
His mom let him sleep in bed with a grown ass man. I calling it pimping.

laurarichardson said:

if they pimped him out...then why did his mother say that she didn't believe Michael molested Jordan?

laurarichardson said:

this definitely goes for you as well,

laurarichardson said:

and my parents let me spend the night at my babysitter's house who was like a big sister to me when i was 7 or 8 and she was 10 or 11 years older than me. Nothing happened and she never molested me. I guess my parents pimped me out.
[Edited 8/11/09 11:55am]

It is very annoying to see how the OP gets butchered in this track.

Since Michael has died, anyone who is just the slightest critical towards MJ on the org, wether it has been about his musical legacy or his personal life, gets attacked like he is some evil, blashphemical person.
It reeks like censorship by the die-hard MJ-fans almost.

There is a difference between people living in some fairytale where the 'mighty MJ is almost like the new Jesus, the 'king of pop', a abused kid who meant SO good with the rest of the world' AND people respecting his musical (and entertainment) legacy, without losing sight of reality: MJ was just as person like you and us, with his good aspects, but also with his flaws.

The following words are a clear example of the first group:
Michael Jackson loved being around kids. He had a messed up childhood, and unusual life, so yes, he wasn't your average man, but a pervert? Not at all. And if hanging with kids is a sickness, then I wish more adults were "sick" because there are kids in this world who would have killed for the kind of time, affection and love that Michael wanted to lavish upon them in the most pure, honest way.

The group tending more towards reality dares to put questionmarks to that image:
- Was his childhood really THAT messed up? It are just his own words, and mostly from second- or thirdhand sources.
- How do you know he ISN'T a pervert? Any proof?
- If your fat, ugly, average neighbour without any artistic talents would say he 'likes to just sleep in bed with kids' would you judge him the same way you judge MJ? I don't think so, you would probably consider him a creep.
- You say that the whole 'sleeping with kids' thing is innocent. What about the several (hetero, gay, nudistic) pornmagazines found in MJ's bedroom? In your imagination he might be a kid living in a grown men's body, but these magazines and also his sexual posturing on stage, show he is a grown man, with a grown up body, not some childprotecting saint, but a grownup with urges.
- Have you seen the video of him bottle-feeding his kid? (Blanket, i think). Its downright disturbing. Some shaking, obviously drugged person who seems to have no idea what children need. Would i ever leave my kids in the hands of such a person? Not in a minute!

If anyone is sickening in these kind of threads it are the die-hard Jacko-fans. Living in a dream-world, blaming the big, bad world (father Joe, the media, the music press) for all of MJ's 'issues', seemingly too affraid to use their common sense, because it might spoil their fairytale.

Riverpoet31 said:

Preach that shit!!!

....and you're right...if my next-door neighbor did this shit, I'd have the cops on him so fast.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

where the fuck do you get your information from?

jordy got $18m and his mom and dad got $1m each


i think you have some personal issues that you need to address, and you are taking things out on this forum instead

unique said:

source? Jordan not speaking to the family for years was testified by June Chandler at the trial. I have been going to counseling for years for what happened to me in the past. You really don't know how it is to be sexually abused as a child so I would appreciate that to stop acting like you know what i have been through.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

so where is the source of the information you are providing?

i gave my source, you deny it, so give your source, or are you just making things up?

Michael Jackson sobbed and shook when the mother of a boy he allegedly molested refused to let him share the singer's bed, a court has heard.

June Chandler told Santa Maria court, California, that during a trip to Las Vegas Jackson had tearfully asked why she would not allow her son Jordy to sleep in his bed.

"He was sobbing and crying, shaking and trembling," she said.

"He said, 'You don't trust me? We're a family... Jordy is having fun. Why can't he sleep in my bed? There's nothing wrong. There's nothing going on.'"

She relented after some 40 minutes of begging, and the next day the singer gave her a gold Cartier watch, she said.

From then on, she claimed Jackson shared her son's bed everywhere they went, including trips to New York, Monaco, Florida and during one period when he essentially moved into the Chandler's Santa Monica home and stayed for some 30 nights.

Multi-million settlement

Jackson settled a civil suit with the family over molestation allegations for a reputed £10.6 million ($20 million) in 1994 but has always denied any wrongdoing.

June Chandler said Jordy, who was 13, stayed at Jackson's Neverland ranch three times.

After the Las Vegas trip in March 1993, the singer showered them with expensive gifts, even lending them his credit card, she told the court.

After a trip to Monaco that May, she said she began to get concerned. Jordy had a complete behaviour change and began to get sullen, acting "smart-alecky and withdrawn," Ms Chandler said.

He began dressing like Jackson and did not want to be with his family.

"I wanted my son back," she said. "I didn't like the situation. It was getting out of control."

Jackson showed little reaction to the testimony, although after a break he returned to the courtroom caked in thick white make-up.

Ms Chandler admitted she had not spoken to her son in 11 years. She said the family first met Jackson when he visited her husband's car rental business.

She gave him her number and told him to call if he ever wanted to see her son, which he did, some ten times before inviting him to Neverland.

Former Neverland security guard, Ralph Chacon, has testified that he saw the pop star perform oral sex on Jordy Chandler, suck his nipples and passionately kiss him on the lips.

Chandler, now 25, is not involved in the current trial and is not expected to testify. He is said to be living abroad.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.u...z0NuIDY2RI



http://www.dailymail.co.u...s-bed.html

Jordy Chandler's secret diary of sex abuse
TV SHAME: Jacko tells Martin Bashir he shares bed with Gavin
TV SHAME: Jacko tells Martin Bashir he shares bed with Gavin

28/06/2009
ON STAGE he was a genius showman adored by millions - but when the spotlights went off, Jackson entered a secret dark world where he preyed on young boys. He truly was BAD.

Thanks to immense wealth he kept this chilling side of his life hushed-up and shrouded in mystery.

Then the scandal of 13-year-old Jordy Chandler broke.

Until today the full horrifying details of Jordy's abuse at the hands of Jackson have never been published in Britain.

Click here for all Michael Jackson death and tribute stories

Now for the first time the News of the World reveals the explosive story spelled out to author Victor M. Gutierrez in his shock book Michael Jackson Was My Lover: The Secret Diary of Jordy Chandler.

Jackson's cunning manipulation of youngsters is starkly unveiled in Jordy's version of events, telling how the pop king first lured him into his bed by scaring the life out of him with a screening of grisly horror movie The Exorcist.

Jackson had whisked his new young pal to Las Vegas on his private jet. The boy's trusting parents allowed their starstruck son to book into his own room and to spend the night watching a film with Jackson.

Michael told me we were destined to be a couple

The calculating star knew Jordy would be frightened witless by the scenes on screen and would eagerly accept his invitation to stay in his luxury suite. Nothing untoward occurred that night, but Jackson had achieved his first objective - getting the innocent boy to sleep with him.

The child had been one of many special young friends to visit the singer's Neverland playground in Santa Barbara, California, and sample his lavish lifestyle.

WELL GROOMED: Jacko treats cancer patient Gavin to train ride at Neverland ranch
WELL GROOMED: Jacko treats cancer patient Gavin to train ride at Neverland ranch

But Jordy - who met Jacko in 1992 when the star rented a car from his stepdad's company - quickly became No 1 companion.

And Jordy's mother June was furious in Vegas when she found his bed untouched the following morning and realised what had happened.

"Never do it again!" she scolded Jordy. "Do you understand?" "Yes," said Jordy softly.

But when Jordy reported that to Jackson his response was brutal, telling the boy his mum was trying to come between them and if Jordy couldn't contribute to their friendship he'd find someone else who would. From that moment the pair slept together whenever they could.

Jordy told how just two months after their first meeting, on Sunday April 18, the abuse began in earnest.

"Michael began to kiss me on the lips," he said. But this wasn't enough to satisfy Jackson and he started to put his tongue in the boy's mouth.

When Jordy told him to stop because he didn't like it Jackson responded by saying he'd been conditioned to think that way and that there was nothing wrong with it. As their relationship grew Jackson began to confess his darkest secrets. One night, when the pair were in bed together in their pyjamas, Jordy couldn't beleve what he heard,

He recalled: "Michael said things like 'I've had several sexual encounters with another boy. I still do. We have a very good time.'

"Michael said if I wouldn't do those things with him he'd take it as 'perhaps Jordy doesn't love me as much as the other boy loves me'."

ROOM-MATES: But child star Macaulay insists it was innocent
ROOM-MATES: But child star Macaulay insists it was innocent

Soon Jackson was touching Jordy all over his body when they kissed. Jackson was becoming besotted and invited the boy to Monaco in May for the World Music Awards.

The moment they arrived in the hotel room Jackson locked the door and asked Jordy if he wanted to take a hot bath. Jordy said: "While I was taking off my shirt Michael took me in his arms and began to kiss me.

"Michael finished taking off my shirt. When I was left only in my underwear he pulled them down and took them off with his teeth." Jordy said the singer then took off his clothes and the boy noticed that he had very little pubic hair and had been circumcised.

The pair got in the tub and Jordy sat in Jackson's lap. He said: "Michael washed my hair and I could feel him close. He kissed my neck and gave me goose bumps."

Jordy said he was encouraged to wash the star's private parts and touch him.

He said Jackson then performed an even more intimate sexual act on the boy and Jordy said: "Finally, we kissed on the mouth.

"Michael looked at me and told me it had been fantastic." Shortly before the pair were due to leave for the presentation Jackson approached Jordy again in the hotel bedroom, kissed him and told him he wanted to make love.

The singer performed more sex acts on the boy before they both got dressed and left for the ceremony.

Jordy said Jackson told him: "We're destined to be a couple." The forbidden sex continued on a trip to the Disney theme park in Paris. Jordy revealed: "Michael loved to do it with me in the shower." But their closeness was beginning to raise suspicions.

One day Jordy's dad Evan confronted Jackson at Neverland and said: "Michael, are you f***ing Jordy?" Jackson giggled: "I never use that word."

Evan said: "Excuse me, but what is the exact nature of your relationship?" Jackson replied: "It's cosmic! I don't understand it myself."

But the singer denied any wrongdoing and the father allowed the pair to continue as friends. Nevertheless Jackson was about to make a fatal mistake. He was invited to stay at the family's house to celebrate the fifth birthday of Jordy's stepbrother Nikki.

With Nikki in a top bunk bed, Jordy and Jackson performed sex acts on each other in the bottom bunk - all witnessed by the youngster above.

And months months later Nikki was to explode Jacko's big secret.

UK VISIT: Jacko & Aussie Brett
UK VISIT: Jacko & Aussie Brett

Meanwhile Jordy and Jacko continued to meet to have sex, sometimes for days on end.

The singer began to stay at Evan's house with Jordy a lot. His behaviour, constantly following the boy around everywhere, even into the toilet, left Evan worried. He asked Jackson if he was gay. Jackson just laughed and said: "No!" But one night Evan went into the bedroom and found him and Jordy under the same blanket.

"Jordan was in the foetal position with Michael hugging him from behind with his hand in my son's crotch," said Evan.

"I was extremely confused. I thought that my son was a homosexual. I left them and decided to speak later when I'd calmed down." Next morning young Nikki came into Evan's bedroom and asked his mum Nathalie if it was all right for two boys to get married. Later he added: "Michael is bad because he was hugging Jordy in bed."

But Jackson was already warning Jordy: "If someone asks you if we've done something, just deny it."

With staff at Neverland also suspicious, eventually Jordy's dad could take it no longer. He broke down and told a lawyer friend he suspected the pair of having a sexual relationship. By this time Jackson was asking Jordy to engage in the most perverse acts, although the boy said he refused.

On July 7, 1993, Evan tried to get an order stopping Jackson from seeing Jordy, blaming his ex-wife for nurturing the relationship and accepting cash, lavish gifts and holidays from the star.

When Jordy finally told his dad that Jacko HAD touched him intimately Evan had the evidence he needed. He confronted Jackson and told him: "I'll see you in court!"

That was the last time Jordy and Jackson would see each other.

Evan's next move was to ask for a pay-off of $20 million - over £12 million at today's rates. At the time he explained: "Perhaps this amount will convince Michael not to abuse any more children."

Quickly the police got involved and, after hearing every intimate detail from Jordy, were horrified that Evan had tried to negotiate with Jackson.

Cops swooped on Neverland seizing videos, photos, diaries, and rolls of film. They also found a photo album of nude boys.

When the charges of sexual abuse broke, Jackson countered that it was a simple case of extortion.

Youngsters were paraded in front of the press - including Australian Brett Barnes - to say they had slept in the same bed as Jackson but it was perfectly innocent.

I tuck the boys in, have hot milk, it's all very sweet

But by the turn of the year doubts on Jackson's innocence were growing. Negotiations began again to cut a deal. And on January 21, 1994, the news broke. Jackson had bought Jordy's testimony - and silence - for $22 million. Jordy got 20 million, his parents a million each.

Many saw it as an admission of guilt but it effectively killed off the police case.

Today Jordy is 29 and lives in a luxury apartment outside New York where he successfully manages his investments, increasing his fortune still further. He had years of counselling and now insists he will never speak of the past.

But the scandal left Jackson tarnished. And in 2003 he became so desperate to revive his career he invited in Panorama journalist Martin Bashir - of Princess Diana interview fame. But the show was a disaster.

The star admitted to sharing a bed with young boys, among them Gavin Arvizo, a 13-year-old cancer patient.

He told Bashir: "It's not sexual. I tuck them in, have hot milk, cookies. It's very charming, it's very sweet."

Jackson revealed "many children" had shared his room - including Home Alone star Macaulay Culkin.

Jackson denied any sexual contact but after the broadcast Arvizo came forward to claim he HAD been molested. In 2005, at a court in Santa Maria, California, jurors heard graphic testimony from Arvizo how he clearly remembered two occasions when the singer fondled him under his underpants.

But the case unravelled when several key witnesses admitted to previously lying under oath, and Jackson was acquitted.


http://www.newsoftheworld...ckson.html

Riverpoet31 said:

----
"If anyone is sickening in these kind of threads it are the die-hard Jacko-fans. Living in a dream-world, blaming the big, bad world (father Joe, the media, the music press) for all of MJ's 'issues', seemingly too affraid to use their common sense, because it might spoil their fairytale.?"

Co-Sign Co-Sign Co-Sign

Mike had serious problems that he never bothered to address and anyone who will not acknowledge this is living in a fantasy world. I mean some of you are speculating that MJ had this great sex life with woman. WTF

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

-----
Because she is a big fat ass liar. She stayed in the house as a guest she had to know they were sleeping the bed togehter. In addtion, according to news reports she received a portion of the settlement. If she belived MJ was innocent why did she take the money.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

-----
Did you sleep in the same bed? Or was it a normal sleep over were you sleep in a separate bed or sleeping blanket because those were the sort of sleep overs I went to as a child. Because you should not be sleeping the same bed with an adult when your 7 or 8. Even parents need to move their children back to their own beds at that age.

These people wanted money and they saw a way to get it they pimped their child out and for all we know MJ may have been doing to this boy exactly what was done to him as a child we will never know the truth.

You need to continue to deal with your problems as you seem to be extremly misguided about these types of situations.

unique said:

Wasn't Uncle Chandler the one who wrote that BS?

laurarichardson said:

i can't remember, I believe i bought a sleeping bag over. what problems? I never said that sleeping in the bed as a child with an adult is ok or condoned it. I think it;s inapproiate.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

--
MJ was sleeping the same bed as Chandler. So your situation was not the same as Chandler. Chandler's parents were pimping him out and your parents were sending you to a normal sleep over.

laurarichardson said:

ok but she was 10 or 11 years older than me though.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

-----
But you were not sleeping in the same bed. In addtion, I wonder why no one ever questioned why MJ did not just have these children stay in different rooms.

Why did MJ need to be around young boys 24 hours a day?

I my old neighborhood a creepy old man had lots of video games at his house.
He use to have lots of 10 and 11 years hanging out all the time. The neighbors complained to the police but nothing was done. Some people stopped their sons from going to the guys house.

Well one young man disappered never to be seen again and when the creepy old guy was questioned by police he confessed to moselting and killing the child.
He refused to say where the child was buried but the point of my story is no dude is going to have games and children toys in their house unless they want to entice young children to hang around.

laurarichardson said:

Michael was around kids alot but not just boys. where is it said that he was around young boys 24 hours a day? That reminds of a story of this guy at my church. He had boys (all ages I believe) that were from church and the neighborhood over at his house to hang out, eat and play video games. It was to keep the guys out of trouble, i remember one of the guys that used to go over there was from the streets. I can remember he left the church suddenly and I heard it was because a parent had accused him of inapporiate behavior. I knew some guys that went over there often and asked them if something happened and they said that he never touched or molested them.

unique said:

your sources are both from tabloids. however, it is mentioned in your sources that you provided that June Chandler has not talked to your son for years.

The only sickening ones here are the ones defending MJ by any means, not the ones attacking him.

Riverpoet31 said: