First of all, I want to say that I want to keep this conversation civil. This post isnt meant to cause dissention but I want some honest responses as I try to be as honest and transparent as I can with my questions. Right now, Im listening to Donnie's COLORED SECTION album and it amazes me how this type of music is not pushed and promoted in the mainstream. You cant tell me that many people wouldnt be able to relate to the uplifting message in a song like "Beautiful Me."

Even music by India Arie and Anthony Hamilton is not pushed and promoted yet more negative and degrading music is pushed and promoted and shoved down the throats of the masses. When it specifically comes to "black" music, do you think that the industry purposefully promotes artists that push negative music and degrading images?

Turn on the average R&B station and you will hear mainly/mostly the degrading and stupid hip hop songs. Is it just coincidence that RARELY an intelligent hip hop song becomes a hit or is played? There's intelligent hip hop being made on a regular basis.
Is it coincidence that a shallow song like "Birthday Sex" would become a hit and not a love song like "Point of it All" by Anthony Hamilton?

I know some will say that its promotion and that the music industry is to make money but it seems to me that the music industry is more into expoiting and perpetuating stereotypes moreso than anything else. You cant tell me that ALL people wanna hear is the negative aspects of music...

Blame the suits and the media. It's like the 6:00pm evening news. Something bad happens on the scene and they'll skip past the intelligent well dressed brother to talk with the bumbling shower cap-doo rag wearing fool to get the story. They always do that. People love that. The music business is no different.

The suits dictate what people want to hear (on radio and video) and they force feed that crap over and over and over. And once they make some money off of it, they'll clone someone else and keep marketing it until it's pimped out and they have no more use for it. Then they find something else. Plus it's easier for them to promote one artist..(that's why you rarely see R&B bands anymore).

Plus a lot of the "degrading" music you mention is geared towards the "15 to 28" year olds. Some of them are the ones that are buying and downloading this music. Again, not all but some. And I'm sure the labels are paying out the outlets to super promote and play their artist's music over and over.

Also blame outlets like BET. It's hard to believe at one time they were a respectable channel. Shows like "Planet Groove", "Out The Box" and "Video Soul" were great shows to watch. If you were kind of sick of the regular hip hop stuff, those shows were great alternatives. And BET J is starting to slip too. They dropped the J for Jazz and now they're repeating the same stuff over and over. "Soul Sessions" is cool and the talk shows are OK but they can do better.

It used to be great to turn on the radio and tell the difference from one artist to another..now you can't..I can go on and on but I'm going to shut up. Great topic Digital.

Great topic!I agree with spyzfan1. The media and the suits dictate what is going to be popular, and unfortunately, the bad stuff wins over. Controversy=money. Lil Wayne, other rappers who are involved in drugs, lawsuits, etc have an element of "danger" that is somehow appealing to young folx, as well. Intelligent R & B and hip hop are regarded as "boring". That is sad, because that is where the real talent lies-Maxwell, India Ari, Talib, etc.

SPYZFAN1 said:

Im in that 18-28 yr old demographic and I find it offensive that they think that Im too dumb too understand or like intelligent music. I remember when BET said that they wouldnt play a LITTLE BROTHER video becuase it was too intelligent for its audience..thats HIGHLY offensive. Im so glad that Im smart enough to research the net for the intelligent artists thats still out there making music

kenlacam said:

So why isnt there an outcry among the artists because they're basically being pimped to the detriment of their own people..

It's called the "money game". Money talks. And I'm sure some of those artists that speak don' want to be looked at as haters.

That's cool Digital that you're aware of what's hip in music. Not knocking anyone's hustle but you can only take but so much of the "negative stuff". It's like kenlacam said, it's that "danger element" that impresses the kids.


Lenny Kravitz said it the best too.."Black radio programmers think that black people don't know what a guitar is".

Lil' Wayne is supposedly coming out with an all"rock" record next year. (insert sarcastic tone here)..I'm sure his label will love that..Not holding my breath but we'll see.

With all that is being said here of which I agree, there's an agenda going on.

It's 3 parts blame:

1 - The labels: They promote crap and are ONLY here to make money which equates to "sell records" and they will go about any way possible. So, if that means degrading Blacks, then so be it.

2 - The artists: They heed this call to action from the labels and act accordingly, by putting out wack ass shit. Rap is the major perpetrator of this shit, especially the south. It's all about ringtones now.

3 - The fan: Here's where the biggest blame goes, because if the fans didn't demand this type of bullshit then there wouldn't be a supply of it. Unfortunately, it is what it is, and this new legion of young fans likes this sort of bullshit music and the ONLY way that changes is if the fans change. Fat chance.

- I agree w/ you; they do it on purpose

MuthaFunka said:

DigitalGardin said:

Not surprising at all. Look at Jamie Foxx's Blame It. If he did a song
like Infatuation now B.E.T would give it a thumbs down. Artists like
Tamia and Deborah Cox don't even get any play from B.E.T now.

And to think of how many true artists out there have vaults of music, waiting to be heard, but don't get that chance because of the record companies. I'd say overall, the music business is so bad that even Woodstock and Snoopy can get a record deal. It's just that bad

"Tamia and Deborah Cox don't even get play from B.E.T now".


True. It's also probably because they've had no tabloid drama in their lives. Plus once Beyonce, Ciara and (non singing) Ashanti hit the scene, the other 2 were left in the dust.

Funny.

I've been hearing Lalah Hathaway's "Self-Portrait" and I've been thinking how did we go from publicly praising artists like her father to completely ignoring artists like HER?

I'm from the 18-28 yr old demographic as well, and I don't cater to bullshit nor ALOT of people near my age.

I think the industry in GENERAL(music & cinema) patronize the public's intelligence by releasing alot of popcorn garbage, it just tells you how they view us. But itts the ARROGANCE that they display with a "whatever we ditch, they'll buy" attitude that reeeeeally gets me.

I have to admit there are a few albums listed above that I haven't heard, but I agree with the statements.

Example: I've been a fan of Musiq Soulchild, especially the first 2 albums, but there's a track on his latest called On My Radio that is a complete sellout.

Ironically, I think the title of the song is aptly named On My Radio because it's exactly what radio would choose to play off that album. Did he bow to record company demands to do a track like that? Is it an inside joke?

Se7en said:

He probably did bow down to the record company. I remember when he was
promoting the song on B.E.T he quickly stated don't assume the whole
album sounds like that. Also he did an interview with Sister2Sister
magazine stating how he found the crunk music scene to be fascinating
and how he was tired of being serious all the time. Yeah right.
He had just moved to Atlanta and i think he probably thought jumping on
the Crunk train would expand his audience(never mind Crunk was so 2005).
Nobody bothered listening to that Radio crap and you see the response
he got from just staying in his lane with If you leave and So Beautiful.
It doesn't always pay to sellout.

It has nothing to do with racism, just with what 'sells'.

I worked for a label..just listen to Luupe Fiasco's "dumb it down" and that explains everything.I've heard with my own ears an exec say.."I'm not here to uplift anyone,I'm here to make money".My stomach is turning now as i think about the sad case of black music

bet and a lot of record companys lost a lot of money promoting music like this because they though the record buying public would dig it...boy were they wrong.

phunkdaddy said:

People can choose to sell out, but I believe at the end of the day, the public is fickle especially the younger audience, and eventually you're not going to be taking seriously as an artist.

Riverpoet31 said:

I think it has LOTS to do with racism..look at the hip hop scene...the mainstream scene. There's little positive about it and guess who's the fat cats behind the scenes profitting the most from the music....(white men)

Races are represented differently, definitely, but the bigger problem isn't limited to a single race. The white artists on the radio are not exactly our most brilliant musicians, either.

The Jonas Bros, Taylor Swift, Justin, Mylie Cyrus, Rob Thomas and on and on. It's not the same as Lil Wayne, but they represent basically the worst characteristics of white people.

They're fucking boring!

DigitalGardin said:

Well the buying public have already shown that ...most of the music that is NOT being bought is hip hop music...the sales have fallen by 47% in the past 10 years...however this is what they still play... it kind of perplexes me....most of the time the rap artists never sell unless they are a rapper with longevity.

MuthaFunka said:

Hell r&b artists are hardly even going platinum or gold anyways...


Want to see the people who are ACTUALLY SELLING!?!?
Zac Brown Band
Green Day
Lady Gaga
Hanna Montana
Shinedown
Pink
Beyonce
Darius Rucker
Nickelback
Jason Aldean
Adele
Lil Wayne
Kid Rock
Lady Antebellum
Theory Of A Deadman
Sugarland
Katy Perry
Jamie Foxx


These are all the people on the top 100 that actually have platinum, multi platinum and gold albums.....the buying public have shown who they really care about...

NDRU said:

The white artists may be boring but they arent perpetuating a stereotype thats to the detriment of the people

DigitalGardin said:

Yes, I do.

But the problem is much more pervasive than the 'black music' genre or the music industry in general.

Our most popular movies in the cinema have now all become ultra violent with the SAW, Hostile, and horror genre movies raking in fast, cheap, money for the industry.
You watch films and people laugh at ultra violent scenes now.
Our reality t.v. shows have become prettier, meaner, nastier and just downright rude.

Low-brow entertainment works, and it's making people very very rich.

The 'black' music industry is but a small cog in a very large, broken machine.

Imago said:

For me it was a good thing because from 1991 - 1996 the horror industry was DEAD..I swear some of the lamest flicks came out during that era. What destroyed it was so many Freddy and Jason 'clones' it got old after a while and the serious movies started coming out..and the 'state of the art' flicks like Terminator and Jurassic Park became the jumpers..no one was willing to see horror anymore....it came back after Scream and people finally wanted to be scared again.

Cant say the same for the reality shows....people just need to stop watching them all the time.

The most popular r&b music have become shit hop because they LET IT happen..people just wanted to "collaborate" with someone else..and then thats all it became...then the rappers they collaborated with started producing "r&b" when really it was just a singer over a hip hop beat..now the charts even have Lil Wayne and Akon as "soul". its like saying Tool and Disturbed are in the same category as Johnny Cash and Sting.

It's not a black or white thing. Music nowadays is currently shit. Good Music just take longer to be recognized. That has always been the case. James Brown, George Clinton and many others have not been properly recognized. But the truth will be recognize with time.
[Edited 7/22/09 20:30pm]

NONSENSE said:[quote]It's not a black or white thing. Music nowadays is currently shit. Good Music just take longer to be recognized. That has always been the case. James Brown, George Clinton and many others have not been properly recognized. But the truth will be recognized with time.

SavonOsco said:

Artist like Lupe and even more mainstream like JayZ have been telling us this for the longest. But please understand this...it has always been about the money from the days of Sam Cooke, Dizzie Gilipsie, to the Detroit Motown Sound. If dumb down, misogynistic, vulgar music moved units in Smokey Robinsons era then Barry Gordy would have been Suge Knight. I just don't believe music execs were utilitarian in their approach to selecting the types of music or artist they promoted then, and I don't believe that execs are more bottom line driven today. We eat this shit up, it's hella cheap to produce, artist are easily replaced, and it plays to the lowest common denominator in all of us...which for some odd reason suits this generation of listeners just fine.
More than racist the particular black music that you allude to is a form of self hate. And honestly, if you ask your friends that play this music in the presence of minors or allow them access to BET 106 and park, or whatever "rap" driven medium...they will deny the impact all together or judge it minimal at best in "priming" this generations behavior. With that being the case my friends..if the parents and community don't have the sense enough to shield the youth from its influence (saggy pants, neck tattoos, degradation of our women, etc) then we have far more troubles that what this thread suggest.
[Edited 7/22/09 21:20pm]