Interesting views from an artist who is a little at odds with wanting to connect in an artistic way with music fans but also not being a huge fan of digital downloads...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/new...efault.stm

'Downloading has cheapened music'
By Damian Jones
Newsbeat music reporter (BBC Radio 1 News Programme)

Jack White, The White Stripes linchpin and all round busiest man in rock 'n' roll, has launched a special subscription service. He's doing it because he's unhappy with the way downloading is affecting music experiences. He explains how he came up with the idea for the Vault.

What are your thoughts on the dominance of the internet on the music industry generally these days?

It’s taken a lot of the romance out of the experiences of music. This is what we're trying to manipulate to the advantage of the fan/listener and the artist as well, to find ways to have beautiful experiences that have a longer lasting impact. Sometimes things you have complete easy access to, like a reality show, or an online purchase at the click of a mouse, can become forgetable and invisible. A trip to a record store to get the album you've been waiting months for on the other hand, can be cherished for a lifetime. We are trying to find those bridges between the tangible worlds and the cyber/digital worlds.

As an artist who has embraced vinyl, what do you think about download culture?

A quick look at sales figures for albums will show anyone with a brain that there's no doubt the world has collectively decided that there is nothing wrong with taking music for free and feeling no moral conundrum about it. Oh well, that's the individuals personal battle to think about really. People say, "Bad for the artist, great for the fan," but that's not necessarily true I don't think. Download culture isn't a very romantic experience for the fan regarding art, it cheapens it and makes it fast forwardable, and disposable, and a lot of times ignorable. That's a shame for a lot of art and music that isn't getting the chance that it would if people just left the needle on the record till the end of the side or what have you. I'm not telling people not to listen to MP3s, we sell them for all of our records and I wouldn't say to them don't share with their friends or whatever, but if you're asking me my opinion on what I prefer, or what I think is the best way to enjoy music, I would take a tangible, moving piece of machinery to listen to, as it expands the imagination. The physical attachment and the experience is more reverential to the art form.

How did you come up with the initial idea for the Vault?

We had been working for years on trying to find a more interesting solution to the modern fan's desire to enjoy and participate in music. Many of the cutting edge conventional modes didn't seem that interesting to me. So it took us a minute to get the structure of something we thought was involving to both the fans and the artists. We have no expectations of how many people will want to get involved and subscribe, it's all new and experimental especially combining the vinyl records and digital content together.

What kind of additional content will fans get for their money and how is it produced?

They will get tapes filmed by the groups themselves. That sometimes is an expense, sometimes very cheap for the artists to make. They will also get vaulted footage from the past that no one has seen or ever posted on YouTube before. The White Stripes alone have incredible amounts of footage and recordings of shows from the last decade. At times bands like [side project] The Dead Weather will spontaneously perform online and fans will be notified by Twitter to make an exciting and off the cuff experience. We are trying to not make things always available at the click of a mouse, but for experiences to be brought to their attention in strange ways.

How involved personally will you be with this project?

Very involved. I'm not a big fan of a lot of these toys actually, but I never like to tell people who want to share the music I create how they can get it. It doesn't matter to me if they want an MP3 or an 8 track tape. It's the artists duty to work with the listener as much as possible, we are in the art form together.

Do you think it is fair to your audience who may not have as much disposable cash to charge for the possibility of presale tickets to concerts?

We'd rather have a pool of die hard fans getting those instead of scalpers for one thing, but fairness is up to the consumer. We can only offer what we think they might want, and if they don't, we'll soon be made aware and move on to the next thing. It's all for them, the Vault is charging for a plethora of ideas and experiences. Some members are getting into shows before anyone else now just by lottery, some might get rare records randomly sent to them via mail order (or handed to them by me even!) Some are getting records that they will resell on eBay if they want to. It's their record and their community too so some will cherish all of these experience and records and some will think it's not worth it.

Outside this project, what your plans for the next 12 months?

I'm a part of a lot of records being made this year, many are singles released on vinyl and MP3s on iTunes. Also some things I can't tell you about. But right now I'm heavy into The Dead Weather and producing records when I'm not touring with them.

Hmmm what do you think of his ideas?
[Edited 7/23/09 8:39am]

I'd like to read them, but your link doesn't work. Can you find the articled and post it here?

Link fixed (you have to click on the article after following the link)and article posted (sorry about the formatting it was all over the place).
[Edited 7/23/09 8:40am]

Am excellent interview and he makes incredibly valid points about what it is (or used to be) like to be an old school music fan. Something about going into a store that sells albums beyond just the Top ten hot sellers (and in many cases, copies of those are in short supply because of downloading), Hopefully innovations like this make things change.

They need to open local record stores again. Closing them down ain't doing nothing but dragging the industry down even further.

Valid points. But I don't know what can be done. Can't turn back the clock.

coolcat said:

And that's why we're at the state we are.

Thanks for posting it!

I agree with pretty much everything he said. Especially the part about the experience.

He's doing with his website what I thought Prince would do with his.

But reading his interview, I'm glad that he's doing what is necessary for people to get his music and yeah I wished Prince did that too instead of having people use a credit card and spend over $70 over one song or something like that, lol.

Music was cheapened years before people were able to download it. If the labels insist on releasing cheaply made music, then it's only fair that the public pays the worth of the music, which is nothing. In other words...free.

I'm all for downloading. Download on people, download on!

And just wait until this rare footage ends up on YouTube or some file-sharing network. Will people who’ve paid for a membership police this themselves? And for how long? It’s a very complicated issue and no one has all the answers.

“You can never go home again”. That idiom to me means that you can never reproduce the same exact environment that brought so much happiness in the past.

Although that happiness was usually surrounded by plenty of pain, but we humans have a way of filtering out that which we don’t care to remember too clearly (call it nostalgia).

It seems to me that this digital age is perfect for inspiration and creativity that knows few bounds. But unfortunately it has thus far been mostly staid and predictable.

You can do almost anything now, and it seems to me that for 60 or more years the record format, both by chance and by plan, had it figured out mostly correct (it just wasn't portable).

So why not return to larger album artwork and liner notes, 45-minute albums (which is already happening again), EPs, 45s with b-sides (which is already happening on iTunes and other services this month)? And then you can even create totally separate packaging/artwork for each type of release (LPs, EPs, singles). And they can be virtual, be ordered through the mail, and/or be carried in a few stores that can support whatever little demand still exists for the tangible. But many can printout their own tangible now, it's just that thus far few are supplying.

And technology can easily be developed to rotate to the backside artwork, or even flip through the virtual pages to read the liner notes.

And unique one-off concerts or live concerts online surely would seem to be an option for those who couldn't attend or those who want to enjoy again.

And on and on and on for the thousand and millions which will push us beyond are wildest dreams. This is the time to think outside of the box and endlessly experiment, not a time to withdraw and go ultra conservative.

But as for corporate radio, I have not even a clue how you turn the forces of that evil around.

There used to be a whole infrastructure in place that would give us much more superior material for free. But now it’s about safely keeping what little audience is left through not upsetting anyone enough to inspire them to turn the dial. "Different" is therefore now a four-letter word to the industry more than ever before.

And that’s okay. Most everyone that really enjoys music has already left years ago. And there are so many choices today for hearing music that you just can’t expect the same large audience of past decades. So in turn, the radio stations (the mega conglomerates now) of today have found that the way to keep up profits is mostly through the placating of formulaic music to passive music listeners who don’t know which ends of the dogs shits.

Brendan said:

vainandy said:

I couldn't agree more. It amazes me how people bash fans for downloading, but yet, they're releasing crappy music. A lot of artist and labels couldn't give a damn about making a good/great ALBUM, they just want a hot single. I refuse to pay $15 bucks for a CD only to get home, pop it in the player and discover that out of the 18 songs, only 3 are worth listening to. You want people to stop downloading all the time? Start making QUALITY music.

I think the subscription model is really the way to go. I'm interested to see how this whole thing works out because I think it could really work well.

That said, I don't think downloading will ever end. I agree that I don't have hte same respect for music I've downloaded as music I've actually bought on vinyl or whatever, but there are some songs/artists I wouldn't spend money on in the first place.

guitarslinger44 said:

Yeah, I'm just not as optimistic... I think that music as an industry/business is close to over... as far as buying songs or albums... Musicians will still be able to make money from live performances or having their music licensed for movies commercials, etc... but I think the cat's out of the bag now...

As some of you have sensed, you can see the dichotomy in Jack's answers. He knows you can't really change anything but he is obviously willing to give it a try.

To be fair Prince has also tried similar things before moving on to the state of almost nothingness (in terms of new online content) that we are in now. In a way I wish Prince has stuck to the 2001 NPGMC model but then just refined it into something like Jack White's new attempt.

KeithyT said:

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Well let's wait and see what happens. I know people speculated that he took the site down because of the divorce and recent rumors are saying the divorce is finally done so maybe he will get it together

purpleworld said:

Well... what you are both forgetting is that shitty music or not, this is a business that employs people in many ways - from the receptionist at the studio to the tracking engineer - the mixing engineer and the mastering engineer. Someone has to pay these skilled people - who are mostly freelance players.

Sure, the labels got extremely greedy and the industry has changed immensely over the years... but it's not just the labels and artists who are making a living in the music biz.

Timmy84 said:

!!!! I also thing the listener will dispute not being able to listen to an entire cd just grabbing and picking the song they like,another angle from the artist is they've become lazy to create an album one would want to listen to from beginning to end.The artist focuses on 2 songs which will bring in money by downloads or ringtones while forgetting what the art is about in the first place.

As to what Jack White said it is an issue which needs to be addressed.The record stores are gone,album art is fading.The new way is doing major damage.

vainandy said: