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Printableblackguitaristz said: murph said: The current MJ Rolling Stone cover story is indeed illuminating, especially how competitive Mike was with Prince til' the very in....At one point in the piece, Kenny Ortega, MJ's director for what was to be the This Is It shows, asked Mike why he had trouble sleeping during the run up to the gigs... Clip from article: "For the most part, nights seemed to be the biggest problem for Jackson--he had complained of insomnia. But it was also the time when he felt a higher power was channeling creativity to him. "I didn't get a whole lot of sleep last night," he would tell Ortega."I was up working on music. That's when the information is coming, and when it's coming you gotta work." "Michael," Ortega joked with him, "why can't you make a pact with your higher power so that you could put these ideas on the shelf until after July 13?" "No," Jackson responded. Then he might give them to Prince." That says it all...lol.... Yeah, I have that issue and I saw that. Sure, I have picked up over the years regarding what I saw as Michael paying a little extra attention to what P was doing. It was no secret that Michael was curious in Prince dating all the way back to 1981 when P released Controversy. Some of Micheal's brothers.. Jermaine, Marlon and Randy and sister Janet, all were fans of Prince's and his production on The Time and V6. Michael knowing this and him not understanding how someone like P, who wore makeup like he did, was seen as a "lady killer" got to Michael. This if true, was documented in the 1991 book The Magic and the Madness. I do think, especially around the Bad album, that Michael took P's cue in trying to "toughen" up his image and come across with a lil' more edge. Which was cool. I never saw it as Michael "biting" off of Prince though. MJ still did it in his own way. I've heard in recent years, like every one else, that it was rumored that MJ wanted to tour with Prince. And that he wanted to out do Prince's shows in England. There is nothing wrong in him wanting to out do Prince because he obviously respected P's talent. With P, I never thought P was concerned with Michael strictly because P KNEW that Michael was set in gold long before P was even out of high school and had a recording contract. P KNEW that he COULDN'T compete with Michael so he didn't even bother trying. [Edited 7/25/09 1:08am] I'm sorry but, this is fascinating to me. I didn't know the extent that Prince was mentioned in that RS article. Wow. If I were Prince, I'd take it as a high compliment. Dude was really checking for him right till the end. Considering that Michael was and will always be the bigger star in terms of sales and global popularity, WTF does MJ want with Prince? A little ole Prince shouldn't be a threat to a "king" right? I mean, seriously. I never got the impression that Prince gave a rip about what MJ was doing. I never got the impression that Prince wanted the type of fame and celebrity MJ had. After he tasted the highs of "Purple Rain," that seemed to be enough for him. He seemed to put out a commercial song or two to get on the charts, but the Hot 100 never seemed to be his goal. I guess Prince's resurgence in the last decade was not lost on MJ. though. I mean, Prince has had a brilliant comeback the last 6 years or so and what tickles my soul about it all is that it's been without the aid of radio (let alone video lol). And his Super Bowl show is still considered one of the most vibrant. Maybe it's only natural for Michael to look at how a peer got back in the game to inspire his own "comeback." I wonder how MJ would feel about this being out in the public? It's not really the best look, is it?  [Edited 7/27/09 23:29pm] "Be glad for what you had baby, what you've got..." | |
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Yeah MJ never wanted to appear as if he had an ego (even if we think he did). Other artists like Marvin or Rick would admit they had big egos but MJ would think admitting that was "sinful". I never got the competition between Prince and MJ. I doubt it existed. They just happen to be big pop stars in the '80s who happen to be the same age, black, androgynous, members of dysfunctional families, child prodigies and from the Midwest and students of Little Richard & James Brown but other than that, not much else. | |
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bettybop said: blackguitaristz said: Yeah, I have that issue and I saw that. Sure, I have picked up over the years regarding what I saw as Michael paying a little extra attention to what P was doing. It was no secret that Michael was curious in Prince dating all the way back to 1981 when P released Controversy. Some of Micheal's brothers.. Jermaine, Marlon and Randy and sister Janet, all were fans of Prince's and his production on The Time and V6. Michael knowing this and him not understanding how someone like P, who wore makeup like he did, was seen as a "lady killer" got to Michael. This if true, was documented in the 1991 book The Magic and the Madness. I do think, especially around the Bad album, that Michael took P's cue in trying to "toughen" up his image and come across with a lil' more edge. Which was cool. I never saw it as Michael "biting" off of Prince though. MJ still did it in his own way. I've heard in recent years, like every one else, that it was rumored that MJ wanted to tour with Prince. And that he wanted to out do Prince's shows in England. There is nothing wrong in him wanting to out do Prince because he obviously respected P's talent. With P, I never thought P was concerned with Michael strictly because P KNEW that Michael was set in gold long before P was even out of high school and had a recording contract. P KNEW that he COULDN'T compete with Michael so he didn't even bother trying. [Edited 7/25/09 1:08am] I'm sorry but, this is fascinating to me. I didn't know the extent that Prince was mentioned in that RS article. Wow. If I were Prince, I'd take it as a high compliment. Dude was really checking for him right till the end. Considering that Michael was and will always be the bigger star in terms of sales and global popularity, WTF does MJ want with Prince? A little ole Prince shouldn't be a threat to a "king" right? I mean, seriously. I never got the impression that Prince gave a rip about what MJ was doing. I never got the impression that Prince wanted the type of fame and celebrity MJ had. After he tasted the highs of "Purple Rain," that seemed to be enough for him. He seemed to put out a commercial song or two to get on the charts, but the Hot 100 never seemed to be his goal. I guess Prince's resurgence in the last decade was not lost on MJ. though. I mean, Prince has had a brilliant comeback the last 6 years or so and what tickles my soul about it all is that it's been without the aid of radio (let alone video lol). And his Super Bowl show is still considered one of the most vibrant. Maybe it's only natural for Michael to look at how a peer got back in the game to inspire his own "comeback." I wonder how MJ would feel about this being out in the public? It's not really the best look, is it?
[Edited 7/27/09 23:29pm] I think they both felt the other was talented...maybe kindred souls even in a way Bobby Z recently said Michael and Prince were cool and that Michael would send tapes of Sly Stone and James Brown concerts to Prince back in the day "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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Kindred?
I'm actually surprised they would even meet up. I was surprised when I first heard there was a "rivalry"... if it is, it's a weird one. 
I mean this wasn't Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis we're talking about here.
They're connected in one way but not in other ways. It's a weird thought. There were always comparisons though, I remembered that. Now I don't understand why comparing them anymore. Two totally different people despite some similarities. [Edited 7/27/09 23:50pm] | |
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I just think that MJ was always kinda pissed that prince was so versatile in his live performances. prince could do the mid sized tour and each night do his guitar riffs, his piano dabbling n then throw in a drum solo. MJ never had that option he was a song and dance man. Everything had to be BIG N FLASHY. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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Timmy84 said: Kindred?
I'm actually surprised they would even meet up. I was surprised when I first heard there was a "rivalry"... if it is, it's a weird one.
I mean this wasn't Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis we're talking about here.
They're connected in one way but not in other ways. It's a weird thought. There were always comparisons though, I remembered that. Now I don't understand why comparing them anymore. Two totally different people despite some similarities. LOL. That was my reaction too. "You put water into a cup, it becomes the cup...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend." - Bruce Lee
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bboy87 said: WetDream said: ive read this story many times and this one is different. Anyway, to me, there is no competition at all. Prince cannot be reached. I began as an MJ fan and still like those team created "solo" albums like Off The Wall but, after seeing the talent of Prince, i could not believe there was someone this talented on earth! I don't think there is anything Prince didn't top MJ on other than music videos (not all) but, i don't truly understand where the rivalry comes from other than fame because Prince don't even resemble MJ on stage or in the studio that much so, yeah, it must be fame rivalry. MJ was just a revolutionary popstar back in the day and just a popstar post 80s but with the humanitarian side (another thing Prince didn't top actually but, that aint music or entertainment) but, Prince was everything at all times. The all round entertainer. I went from hardcore MJ fandom, going to rallys, gatherings organised by MJNO's Paul and others...all that kinda stuff so, for me to say what i am now, says a lot.  @ you goting to MJNO rallieshaha, i know, i was hardcore MJ. Paul still owes me £30! [Edited 7/28/09 5:03am] This Post is produced, arranged, composed and performed by WetDream | |
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WetDream said: bboy87 said: @ you goting to MJNO rallieshaha, i know, i was hardcore MJ. Paul still owes me £30! [Edited 7/28/09 5:03am] I'm hardcore.....but rallies, WD? "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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WetDream said: bboy87 said: @ you goting to MJNO rallieshaha, i know, i was hardcore MJ. Paul still owes me £30! [Edited 7/28/09 5:03am] That was EXTREMELY hardcore! | |
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Ellie said: murph said: Yep...even parents....the harder sect of JW's mourn their dead in other ways.... That's funny. How weird would it have looked if Katherine and Rebbie Jackson weren't at MJ's funeral and memorial? And they are life-long JWs, not late converters like Prince. ----- Can you give it a fucking rest already? Maybe P viewed his parents bodies privately before the public funeral. Just like the Jacksons had a private service before the public viewing. Some of you need to get off your high off and stop judging and thinking you know every aspect of P’s life. We don’t really know him on a personal level. | |
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bettybop said: blackguitaristz said: Yeah, I have that issue and I saw that. Sure, I have picked up over the years regarding what I saw as Michael paying a little extra attention to what P was doing. It was no secret that Michael was curious in Prince dating all the way back to 1981 when P released Controversy. Some of Micheal's brothers.. Jermaine, Marlon and Randy and sister Janet, all were fans of Prince's and his production on The Time and V6. Michael knowing this and him not understanding how someone like P, who wore makeup like he did, was seen as a "lady killer" got to Michael. This if true, was documented in the 1991 book The Magic and the Madness. I do think, especially around the Bad album, that Michael took P's cue in trying to "toughen" up his image and come across with a lil' more edge. Which was cool. I never saw it as Michael "biting" off of Prince though. MJ still did it in his own way. I've heard in recent years, like every one else, that it was rumored that MJ wanted to tour with Prince. And that he wanted to out do Prince's shows in England. There is nothing wrong in him wanting to out do Prince because he obviously respected P's talent. With P, I never thought P was concerned with Michael strictly because P KNEW that Michael was set in gold long before P was even out of high school and had a recording contract. P KNEW that he COULDN'T compete with Michael so he didn't even bother trying. [Edited 7/25/09 1:08am] I'm sorry but, this is fascinating to me. I didn't know the extent that Prince was mentioned in that RS article. Wow. If I were Prince, I'd take it as a high compliment. Dude was really checking for him right till the end. Considering that Michael was and will always be the bigger star in terms of sales and global popularity, WTF does MJ want with Prince? A little ole Prince shouldn't be a threat to a "king" right? I mean, seriously. I never got the impression that Prince gave a rip about what MJ was doing. I never got the impression that Prince wanted the type of fame and celebrity MJ had. After he tasted the highs of "Purple Rain," that seemed to be enough for him. He seemed to put out a commercial song or two to get on the charts, but the Hot 100 never seemed to be his goal. I guess Prince's resurgence in the last decade was not lost on MJ. though. I mean, Prince has had a brilliant comeback the last 6 years or so and what tickles my soul about it all is that it's been without the aid of radio (let alone video lol). And his Super Bowl show is still considered one of the most vibrant. Maybe it's only natural for Michael to look at how a peer got back in the game to inspire his own "comeback." I wonder how MJ would feel about this being out in the public? It's not really the best look, is it?
[Edited 7/27/09 23:29pm] That's exactly how I feel about that. You're on point Bettybop. I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that | |
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bboy87 said: WetDream said: haha, i know, i was hardcore MJ. Paul still owes me £30! [Edited 7/28/09 5:03am] I'm hardcore.....but rallies, WD? Twas during the trial. Protests in London. Those MJ fans are insane. This Post is produced, arranged, composed and performed by WetDream | |
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To me it has always been more about the people comparing those 2, to the point it ridicolous and tiresome.
But i have never read anywhere (or noticed myself) that Prince was really 'bothered' by MJ and the choices he made in his career. To go for the most obvious: MJ seemed so obsessed with his commercial succes, that he took years and years to come up with a follow up to Thriller. Its like that everything had to be bigger, better, more succesfull for him, to feel he had succeeded as an artist. Prince did make it 'big' with Purple Rain, and followed it up very quickly with the 'uncommercial' ATWIAD. Its like he did understand: this is a one-time mega succes, why should i try to repeat it in a forced way I remember reading remarks from the Jackson camp, that MJ was really 'terrified' with the succes of Prince with Purple Rain, and that he was determined to stay 'ahead' of him. Maybe that explains why MJ was going for a 'harder' sound and a tougher image with the Bad album. But i really think Prince didnt give a shit about that. At the time MJ came with his newest bid for the biggest commercial succes: Bad, Prince had (since the succes of Purple Rain) allready released a retro psychedelic-pop album, an art-rock / albumrock one, and a double album considered to be one of the artistical masterpieces of the 80's. MJ felt he had to compete with Prince, Prince didnt bother. | |
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purplecam said: bettybop said: I'm sorry but, this is fascinating to me. I didn't know the extent that Prince was mentioned in that RS article. Wow. If I were Prince, I'd take it as a high compliment. Dude was really checking for him right till the end. Considering that Michael was and will always be the bigger star in terms of sales and global popularity, WTF does MJ want with Prince? A little ole Prince shouldn't be a threat to a "king" right? I mean, seriously. I never got the impression that Prince gave a rip about what MJ was doing. I never got the impression that Prince wanted the type of fame and celebrity MJ had. After he tasted the highs of "Purple Rain," that seemed to be enough for him. He seemed to put out a commercial song or two to get on the charts, but the Hot 100 never seemed to be his goal. I guess Prince's resurgence in the last decade was not lost on MJ. though. I mean, Prince has had a brilliant comeback the last 6 years or so and what tickles my soul about it all is that it's been without the aid of radio (let alone video lol). And his Super Bowl show is still considered one of the most vibrant. Maybe it's only natural for Michael to look at how a peer got back in the game to inspire his own "comeback." I wonder how MJ would feel about this being out in the public? It's not really the best look, is it?
[Edited 7/27/09 23:29pm] That's exactly how I feel about that. You're on point Bettybop.  "Be glad for what you had baby, what you've got..." | |
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Both artists inspired each other and influenced each other. If there was any real competition I think it was more each checking the other's work and admiring it, much like Pet Sounds influenced Sgt Peppers.
From all reports they were semi-friendly with MJ sending Prince videos of classic Sly and The Family Stone concerts etc. Like I said both great artists in their own right. Both influential on a whole generation of artists including themselves. Now who wants to take this nag to the glue factory? Swa "I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love" | |
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Riverpoet31 said: To me it has always been more about the people comparing those 2, to the point it ridicolous and tiresome. But i have never read anywhere (or noticed myself) that Prince was really 'bothered' by MJ and the choices he made in his career. To go for the most obvious: MJ seemed so obsessed with his commercial succes, that he took years and years to come up with a follow up to Thriller. Its like that everything had to be bigger, better, more succesfull for him, to feel he had succeeded as an artist. Prince did make it 'big' with Purple Rain, and followed it up very quickly with the 'uncommercial' ATWIAD. Its like he did understand: this is a one-time mega succes, why should i try to repeat it in a forced way I remember reading remarks from the Jackson camp, that MJ was really 'terrified' with the succes of Prince with Purple Rain, and that he was determined to stay 'ahead' of him. Maybe that explains why MJ was going for a 'harder' sound and a tougher image with the Bad album. But i really think Prince didnt give a shit about that. At the time MJ came with his newest bid for the biggest commercial succes: Bad, Prince had (since the succes of Purple Rain) allready released a retro psychedelic-pop album, an art-rock / albumrock one, and a double album considered to be one of the artistical masterpieces of the 80's. MJ felt he had to compete with Prince, Prince didnt bother. I seem to be agreeing to a lot of your posts lately. This Post is produced, arranged, composed and performed by WetDream | |
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