Jodeci and Jagged Edge for starting the whole mash of R&B and hip-hop

Since '87 I quit considering myself an rNb listener. I love telling hip-hoppers how much I hate rap and listen to rock. Then when I drop some Living Colour King's X or RATM they say something like "Oh that was cool, but they're black aren't they?"

midiscover said:

No, it was Mary J Blige.

midiscover said:

hey hey hey Jodeci could sing. The whole mash up thing didn't start with them though, it started with Mary J. Blige. But there isn't a guy group out here today that could outsing Jodeci circa 1991-1996. (cuz K-Ci done lost his voice now due to excessive smoking and drinking).

estelle81 said:

You might have the cash but you cannot cash in your face - Stevie Wonder

candy2277 said:

It didn't start with any of them. Teddy Riley with the New Jack Swing began the trend of using hip-hop beats with R&B, but the genres were still separate. R&B artists were singing over the beats (with raps here and there). The so-called "hip-hop soul" of artists like Jodeci and MJB continued that trend, but it wasn't until the late '90s that hip-hop had almost completely co-opted R&B in such a way that artists who just sang couldn't get a hit or sell a record.

Timmy84 said:

Beats with reverb and shitloads of compression!

midiscover said:

CORRECTION: The blame goes to Sean Combs.

He was the producer that invented "the hip-hop soul sound" during the makings of Mary J. Blige's debut album What's The 411?.

Hip-Hop Soul is basically a soul singer (I say THAT loosely) that sings on top of hip-hop beats (at the tempo of 95 BPM, a formula that Sean copied from Dr.Dre no less) that could've been used for a rapper to rap on.

AlexdeParis said:

In fairness, New Jack Swing was at a faster tempo than hip-hop soul. The work that Teddy Riley produced for Guy, Keith Sweat, Bobby Brown, Johnny Kemp, and Michael Jackson (Dangerous-era) were very uptempo.

Dr.Dre is the blame for putting hip-hop beats on the downtempo of 95 BPM on The Chronic for rap in general. But Sean Combs is even more at fault for mixing r&b/soul vocals on downtempo hip-hop beats.

AlexdeParis said:

New Jack Swing pretty much ended pop music for me. I don't know why, but I just hate that swing-beat... I loved the 80s beats... the stuff kids were breaking to...

But the swing-beat hit everyone... Prince, MJ... and it never went away.
[Edited 7/22/09 13:14pm]

They keep signing bullshit artist to record deals!

coolcat said:

See, I love NJS! It was innovative and fun. I thought Teddy and company had the right blend of mostly R&B with some hip-hop elements. I wish it had stayed longer.

AlexdeParis said:

Yeah, I think New Jack Swing pretty much killed rnb. Fucking Teddy Riley

coolcat said:

Don't be cruel, it's my prerogative.

AlexdeParis said:

Bobby Brown is one of the reasons I find it so hard to watch Ghostbusters 2. I love the soundtrack to 1... but 2 makes me sad.

DEAD.....Like Elvis.....

AlexdeParis said:

Teddy and Guy and the New Jack Swing movement was cool for a minute
but somewhere in between the singers wanted to be rappers and come
off as hard i.e BBD, bobby brown, and even Teddy himself. Singers should
sing and rappers should rap. Blackstreet's debut album was cool but damn
near every song you had to hear a grimy rap verse in it by some no name
rapper.

R&B music is gone with the wind.

phunkdaddy said:

I remember in 1990, I was already getting disillusioned with pop music. I was 12 years old. But I hadn't lost all hope. Graffitti bridge had just come out. I knew Prince wouldn't let me down. But I hear the New Jack stuff on there... I got all depressed. But it still had songs I liked, and still had some 80s rhythms.

Then 1991 comes along... my other musical hero MJ's coming out with an album. MJ would never go for this New Jack Swing stuff I thought... I was wrong.

Like a one-two punch.

I'm surprised one of those assholes haven't already been in this thread with their ever popular response...."There's still good R&B music out there but you have to look for it".

phunkdaddy said:

What about people who can rap and sing (e.g. Lauryn Hill)?

I like some of Teddy's raps, especially the one in "My Fantasy."

Everybody knows its downhill. Thats why r&b and hip hop albums are not selling anymore.

I hope the older fans who still buy cd's start buying more real music. I was so proud to see Maxwell do 310,000 units in one week and still selling out shows all over the country. That goes to show people tired of this mess.

vainandy said:

Oh we here....but you guys arent getting deep yall just talking about the major artists. So Ima leave that alone for now...now if we were to talk about 80's sounding funk...then thats ...

midiscover said:

I'm not sure if they started this trend,but the merging of hip-hop with R&B should have never happened.If I wanna hear hip-hop,I would go and buy a hip-hop CD! I shouldn't have to hear hip-hop elements and a bunch of thuggy rappers on a so-called "R&B album".Don't mix the two! This is what destroyed modern-day R&B.

paisleypark4 said:

Especially when people realize that these rappers don't live the life they rap about.

angel345 said:

One of the reasons i think Nas was probably blackballed on B.E.T.
During promotion for his hip hop is dead cd he stated that most
rappers were more like the WWE than reality and how much hip hop
has gone to the dogs these days. I don't think the powers that be
there took to kind to that.

WHo said Nas was blackballed from BET?

midiscover said:

I actually like Jodeci and Jagged Edge unlike much of the current crap. Their mix of R&B and hip hop seemed to work IMO. Plus, they had their pure (or at least less-hybrid) R&B moments

Also, it's not simply "hip-hop soul" that killed R&B. Something has to be said for execution, originality, etc. I'd venture to say that something like MJ Blige's "What's the 411" is a very good album, an example of a successful pairing of R&B and Hip-hop. But, those successful pairings are in the minority and it all seems to have become stale and repetitive.
[Edited 7/23/09 12:57pm]

RnBAmbassador said:

I like Drake. But yes R&B is mostly crap now.Probably the Drake, Young Money and the Keri, Ne-Yo and Kanye song are the only ones in the Top 40 I like right now and the Top 40 is full of crap R&B or R&B flavoured tracks (Sean Kingston, BEP)