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Printablevainandy said: I was listening to his music years before he went video crazy and it was great. I will admit though, his music became weaker after he started trying to make serious videos but the videos themselves didn't make the music weaker, him trying to please the pop crowd did.
To me, I think the stuff he did chasing the pop crowd is the stuff he actually felt most comfortable with and felt most proud of and wanted to do most. The "Heal The World", "We Are The World," "Cry," "Gone Too Soon," "The Girl Is Mine," "The Lost Children," "I Just Can't Stop Loving You," "Childhood" etc, to the point that I think that maybe that's who he felt he really was and what he really wanted to do. Unfortunately, aside from the tunes where he's pissing and moaning about the media to a hip-hop beat, that was his least impressive stuff, to me anyway. I think his instincts about what his real strengths were often failed him. | |
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errant said: vainandy said: I was listening to his music years before he went video crazy and it was great. I will admit though, his music became weaker after he started trying to make serious videos but the videos themselves didn't make the music weaker, him trying to please the pop crowd did.
To me, I think the stuff he did chasing the pop crowd is the stuff he actually felt most comfortable with and felt most proud of and wanted to do most. The "Heal The World", "We Are The World," "Cry," "Gone Too Soon," "The Girl Is Mine," "The Lost Children," "I Just Can't Stop Loving You," "Childhood" etc, to the point that I think that maybe that's who he felt he really was and what he really wanted to do. Unfortunately, aside from the tunes where he's pissing and moaning about the media to a hip-hop beat, that was his least impressive stuff, to me anyway. I think his instincts about what his real strengths were often failed him. But MJ tried his damndest tho. I kinda dug the video for "Earth Song", the song was powerful enough (I just love it when MJ went "DO WE GIVE A DAMN!?" at the end). | |
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Timmy84 said: errant said: To me, I think the stuff he did chasing the pop crowd is the stuff he actually felt most comfortable with and felt most proud of and wanted to do most. The "Heal The World", "We Are The World," "Cry," "Gone Too Soon," "The Girl Is Mine," "The Lost Children," "I Just Can't Stop Loving You," "Childhood" etc, to the point that I think that maybe that's who he felt he really was and what he really wanted to do. Unfortunately, aside from the tunes where he's pissing and moaning about the media to a hip-hop beat, that was his least impressive stuff, to me anyway. I think his instincts about what his real strengths were often failed him. But MJ tried his damndest tho. I kinda dug the video for "Earth Song", the song was powerful enough (I just love it when MJ went "DO WE GIVE A DAMN!?" at the end). yeah, that's why I didn't include "Earth Song" or "Man In The Mirror" in there... because those are the couple of times where that kind of track actually worked and didn't feel like you were slipping into a diabetic coma...  | |
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Timmy84 said: errant said: To me, I think the stuff he did chasing the pop crowd is the stuff he actually felt most comfortable with and felt most proud of and wanted to do most. The "Heal The World", "We Are The World," "Cry," "Gone Too Soon," "The Girl Is Mine," "The Lost Children," "I Just Can't Stop Loving You," "Childhood" etc, to the point that I think that maybe that's who he felt he really was and what he really wanted to do. Unfortunately, aside from the tunes where he's pissing and moaning about the media to a hip-hop beat, that was his least impressive stuff, to me anyway. I think his instincts about what his real strengths were often failed him. But MJ tried his damndest tho. I kinda dug the video for "Earth Song", the song was powerful enough (I just love it when MJ went "DO WE GIVE A DAMN!?" at the end). I know some people who do not even listen to hiS music but dig this song, they like it,The video was just Unbelievable, I love the last part in the video when the wind starts and he starts screaming.....I like the part when he says " Where did we go wrong"  MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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seeingvoices12 said: Timmy84 said: But MJ tried his damndest tho. I kinda dug the video for "Earth Song", the song was powerful enough (I just love it when MJ went "DO WE GIVE A DAMN!?" at the end). I know some people who do not even listen to hiS music but dig this song, they like it,The video was just Unbelievable, I love the last part in the video when the wind starts and he starts screaming.....I like the part when he says " Where did we go wrong" I liked how all the world's problems reversed itself back to health at the end. This was MJ's vision all his life.  | |
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Timmy84 said: errant said: To me, I think the stuff he did chasing the pop crowd is the stuff he actually felt most comfortable with and felt most proud of and wanted to do most. The "Heal The World", "We Are The World," "Cry," "Gone Too Soon," "The Girl Is Mine," "The Lost Children," "I Just Can't Stop Loving You," "Childhood" etc, to the point that I think that maybe that's who he felt he really was and what he really wanted to do. Unfortunately, aside from the tunes where he's pissing and moaning about the media to a hip-hop beat, that was his least impressive stuff, to me anyway. I think his instincts about what his real strengths were often failed him. But MJ tried his damndest tho. I kinda dug the video for "Earth Song", the song was powerful enough (I just love it when MJ went "DO WE GIVE A DAMN!?" at the end). I didn't really dig that song. But something about it just stirred me recently. One of his best later works. Michael Jackson -- the KING of my heart | |
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Timmy84 said: seeingvoices12 said: I know some people who do not even listen to hiS music but dig this song, they like it,The video was just Unbelievable, I love the last part in the video when the wind starts and he starts screaming.....I like the part when he says " Where did we go wrong" I liked how all the world's problems reversed itself back to health at the end. This was MJ's vision all his life. Deep shiz. Neva thought of it like that. 
Stranger in Moscow...dig the song...what about the video? Michael Jackson -- the KING of my heart | |
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Timmy84 said: seeingvoices12 said: I know some people who do not even listen to hiS music but dig this song, they like it,The video was just Unbelievable, I love the last part in the video when the wind starts and he starts screaming.....I like the part when he says " Where did we go wrong" I liked how all the world's problems reversed itself back to health at the end. This was MJ's vision all his life. I also like "They don't care about us" the prison Version, The video was banned,I don't know why , I have seen worst things on MTV
MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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I don't think I can rank MJ without the music video's.
I mean, it was one of his main characsterics as a 'pop idol': releasing over-polished, expensive video's. Often more shallow and superficial then the biggest hollywood-blockbuster. The same goes for its music IMO: he has written some great pop-melodies throughout his career, and his working together with Quincy Jones really did pay off, but after that it was more about his image. Those crappy R&B producers didnt do his music much good, and also his singing style became a manierism. IMO MJ was first off all a commercial Pop-idol. Jackson 5 and The Jacksons following the trends that were popular: Sly Stone with I want You Back, Earth Wind and Fire in the late seventies. After the succes of Off the Wall and Thriller he was surrounding him with boring R&B producers, resulting in rather dated sounding and mediocre pop-music. MJ is for a large part image, following what is popular, video's, commerce. On an artistic level i rate him rather low. Artists like James Brown, The Beatles, Sly Stone, George Clinton, Queen, The Talking Heads, Prince have been so much more important for music on an artistical level. | |
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jamgirl said: Timmy84 said: I liked how all the world's problems reversed itself back to health at the end. This was MJ's vision all his life. Deep shiz. Neva thought of it like that.
Stranger in Moscow...dig the song...what about the video? Strange, I liked the video but the song had more power in it this time. | |
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jamgirl said: Timmy84 said: I liked how all the world's problems reversed itself back to health at the end. This was MJ's vision all his life. Deep shiz. Neva thought of it like that.
Stranger in Moscow...dig the song...what about the video? this is my all time favorite song, brilliant melody, complex lyrics . Im obsessed with it lol..the song was already great , I loved the video..both Stranger in moscow ANd Earth song were directed by the same director. MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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Timmy84 said: jamgirl said: Deep shiz. Neva thought of it like that.
Stranger in Moscow...dig the song...what about the video? Strange, I liked the video but the song had more power in it this time. True.  Michael Jackson -- the KING of my heart | |
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Riverpoet31 said: I don't think I can rank MJ without the music video's.
I mean, it was one of his main characsterics as a 'pop idol': releasing over-polished, expensive video's. Often more shallow and superficial then the biggest hollywood-blockbuster. The same goes for its music IMO: he has written some great pop-melodies throughout his career, and his working together with Quincy Jones really did pay off, but after that it was more about his image. Those crappy R&B producers didnt do his music much good, and also his singing style became a manierism. IMO MJ was first off all a commercial Pop-idol. Jackson 5 and The Jacksons following the trends that were popular: Sly Stone with I want You Back, Earth Wind and Fire in the late seventies. After the succes of Off the Wall and Thriller he was surrounding him with boring R&B producers, resulting in rather dated sounding and mediocre pop-music. MJ is for a large part image, following what is popular, video's, commerce. On an artistic level i rate him rather low. Artists like James Brown, The Beatles, Sly Stone, George Clinton, Queen, The Talking Heads, Prince have been so much more important for music on an artistical level. Hoping one day somebody will start looking into his lyrical content a bit more..and the production side because if anything he created his own higer than heavens image..it took over the music. Now I think people will start over looking that....hopefully. But he definitley wont be looked at too much as a musician...but a great producer of his own work. Just hearing the demo's and acapellas for some of his tunes are really great... Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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paisleypark4 said: Riverpoet31 said: I don't think I can rank MJ without the music video's.
I mean, it was one of his main characsterics as a 'pop idol': releasing over-polished, expensive video's. Often more shallow and superficial then the biggest hollywood-blockbuster. The same goes for its music IMO: he has written some great pop-melodies throughout his career, and his working together with Quincy Jones really did pay off, but after that it was more about his image. Those crappy R&B producers didnt do his music much good, and also his singing style became a manierism. IMO MJ was first off all a commercial Pop-idol. Jackson 5 and The Jacksons following the trends that were popular: Sly Stone with I want You Back, Earth Wind and Fire in the late seventies. After the succes of Off the Wall and Thriller he was surrounding him with boring R&B producers, resulting in rather dated sounding and mediocre pop-music. MJ is for a large part image, following what is popular, video's, commerce. On an artistic level i rate him rather low. Artists like James Brown, The Beatles, Sly Stone, George Clinton, Queen, The Talking Heads, Prince have been so much more important for music on an artistical level. Hoping one day somebody will start looking into his lyrical content a bit more..and the production side because if anything he created his own higer than heavens image..it took over the music. Now I think people will start over looking that....hopefully. But he definitley wont be looked at too much as a musician...but a great producer of his own work. Just hearing the demo's and acapellas for some of his tunes are really great... you know certain people on this site ain't tryin' this... "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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paisleypark4 said: Riverpoet31 said: I don't think I can rank MJ without the music video's.
I mean, it was one of his main characsterics as a 'pop idol': releasing over-polished, expensive video's. Often more shallow and superficial then the biggest hollywood-blockbuster. The same goes for its music IMO: he has written some great pop-melodies throughout his career, and his working together with Quincy Jones really did pay off, but after that it was more about his image. Those crappy R&B producers didnt do his music much good, and also his singing style became a manierism. IMO MJ was first off all a commercial Pop-idol. Jackson 5 and The Jacksons following the trends that were popular: Sly Stone with I want You Back, Earth Wind and Fire in the late seventies. After the succes of Off the Wall and Thriller he was surrounding him with boring R&B producers, resulting in rather dated sounding and mediocre pop-music. MJ is for a large part image, following what is popular, video's, commerce. On an artistic level i rate him rather low. Artists like James Brown, The Beatles, Sly Stone, George Clinton, Queen, The Talking Heads, Prince have been so much more important for music on an artistical level. Hoping one day somebody will start looking into his lyrical content a bit more..and the production side because if anything he created his own higer than heavens image..it took over the music. Now I think people will start over looking that....hopefully. But he definitley wont be looked at too much as a musician...but a great producer of his own work. Just hearing the demo's and acapellas for some of his tunes are really great... yeah....But I think Mj is a hell of a musician, I won't say too much, His unreleased songs will prove everyone wrong, you all will be amazed about the amount of songs MJ wrote himself but never released, Time will prove everyone wrong... MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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bboy87 said: paisleypark4 said: Hoping one day somebody will start looking into his lyrical content a bit more..and the production side because if anything he created his own higer than heavens image..it took over the music. Now I think people will start over looking that....hopefully. But he definitley wont be looked at too much as a musician...but a great producer of his own work. Just hearing the demo's and acapellas for some of his tunes are really great... you know certain people on this site ain't tryin' this...  | |
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Well, IMO he isnt a great producer.
First of all, most of the times he did let others produce him: With the Jacksons the Motown team was producing him, Quincy Jones was there during his commercial peak, and those boring R&B guys after that. As I said, he has written some strong, catchy pop-melodies, thats his main artistical legacy IMO. But the music was most of the time borrowed. Putting an Eddie van Halen guitar solo on an Earth Wind and Fire kind of song isnt exactly an artistic breakthrough, its most of all clever in sales of terms. MJ's music is simply the equivalent of a Hollywood blockbuster-movie: well composed, well-produced, cleverly arranged, but lacking the real edge and spark that make true art. [Edited 7/21/09 15:06pm] | |
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Riverpoet31 said: Well, IMO he isnt a great producer.
First of all, most of the times he did let others produce him: With the Jacksons the Motown team was producing him, Quincy Jones was there during his commercial peak, and those boring R&B guys after that. As I said, he has written some strong, catchy pop-melodies, thats his main artistical legacy IMO. But the music was most of the time borrowed. Putting an Eddie van Halen guitar solo on an Earth Wind and Fire kind of song isnt exactly an artistic breakthrough, its most of all clever in sales of terms. MJ's music is simply the equivalent of a Hollywood blockbuster-movie: well composed, well-produced, cleverly arranged, but lacking the really edge and spark that make real art.  [Edited 7/21/09 15:07pm] MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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Riverpoet31 said: Putting an Eddie van Halen guitar solo on an Earth Wind and Fire kind of song isnt exactly an artistic breakthrough,
what do you mean, Beat It is like an EWF song? My Legacy
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NDRU said: Riverpoet31 said: Putting an Eddie van Halen guitar solo on an Earth Wind and Fire kind of song isnt exactly an artistic breakthrough,
what do you mean, Beat It is like an EWF song? I heard no EWF sound in "Beat It" either! | |
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I swear some people don't know what the HELL they are talking about ..LOL MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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I swear some people here still don't get that MJ wasnt really gifted as a producer and arranger himself. | |
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OMG some people in this thread are hilarious
anyway let's see if any other popstar can top this let's see if any other pop singer can even DREAM about singing a song like this Can anyone think of another popstar who can lead a gospel choir?? | |
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Riverpoet31 said: I swear some people here still don't get that MJ wasnt really gifted as a producer and arranger himself.
LOOk, I think you should study the man's work, you obviously ingorant about his work, saying that Mj is just a pop star is an insult to the music as a whole. MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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Thats your opinion, seeingvoices.
MJ was a huge pop-icon, but on an artistical level he was a commercial follower, user. Nothing more. | |
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maybe he was and maybe he wasn't, but you wouldn't really know one way or the other if you think Beat It is an EWF song with an Eddie Van Halen guitar solo | |
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I can't imagine most of MJ's songs without the music videos 
Can you groove to Thriller without thinking of the red jacket, choregraphy and the popcorn scene? Nope! I think that's what made his music successful | |
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trueiopian said: I can't imagine most of MJ's songs without the music videos
Can you groove to Thriller without thinking of the red jacket, choregraphy and the popcorn scene? Nope! I think that's what made his music successful But Thriller only had 3 videos....what about the other hits from the album? The album's promotion: 3 videos, 7 singles, 1 live performance, and 3 mini interviews "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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errant said: maybe he was and maybe he wasn't, but you wouldn't really know one way or the other if you think Beat It is an EWF song with an Eddie Van Halen guitar solo
The song sounded like "My Sharona". Black folks would've booed Earth, Wind & Fire for doing a song like "Beat It". CHUCCH!  | |
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trueiopian said: I can't imagine most of MJ's songs without the music videos
Can you groove to Thriller without thinking of the red jacket, choregraphy and the popcorn scene? Nope! I think that's what made his music successful i dunno about anyone else, but at my house we were grooving to "Thriller" on the album a year before the video for that song came out. not really a favorite song of mine, but we were into it.  | |
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