At this point I don't trust anyone speaking out aside from a few that I know have nothing to gain.

trueiopian said:

There's a difference between a man who chooses to continue the cycle and the one who decides to end it.

Chic35 said:

It's weird that some of his antics brushed off on MJ

I don't believe one damn thing Joe Jackson has to say. He makes me sick to my stomach. He's a creep through and through. I don't care whos's daddy he is, he's full of shit and is only looking for dough and tv time to impress his latest skank.
[Edited 7/21/09 9:56am]

StillDirrty said:

But when you're reared a certain way you grow up to think nothings wrong with the antics bestowed on you so you reflect that. MJ obviously saw something wrong with it and that's great! Some don't. Like my dad for example is very stubborn and rarely says much besides what must be addressed. I'd always think "Why the hell does he act like this?" but once I reflected on his childhood which wasn't bright at all it made perfect sense to me so I don't blame him.

trueiopian said:

Yep, and it shocked the hell outta me when I listened to Michael admitt in that interview " In a lot of ways I am just like my daddy"! I like to fell out of my chair! The gutta was coming out of Michael in those last days of his life. He was making his doctor appts in the broad daylight and didn't give a fuck who saw him. I heard Michael used to be a very ruthless business man, when he was on top of his game.

trueiopian said:

Some people are able to rise up above their situation and exercise reason and common sense to know that what they are doing is wrong. Joe did not do that and hence forth his son suffered his whole life because of it. He obviously was mentally ill but what Joe did is the root of it all. One could say that if he had a proper childhood he might not have been using children and Neverland to fill that void.

Chic35 said:

He was indeed at a time a very ruthless business man (Bad era) and to an extent money hungry just like daddy I think it was the Geraldo interview when he said he's a warrior like his dad.

Y'all need to quit gettin all worked up 'cause:


1.Joe knows alot of stuff he's not divulging and he dont give a damn about who callin him a lie.

2.Black parent's who whip the stank off their children didn't consider it abuse- it was considered discipline- my mom included-

3. the children involved in that kind of "discipline" feel abused- I certainly did.

4. More attention has been brought to the forefront and older black parents and grandparents even feel differently about their choices of discipline.

5. I won't "beat" my children- if I ever have any- but I will pop a hand or spank that behind from time time- i believe in "not sparing the rod literally". call it what you want- it will be done in love.


Back to Joe-
his sole purpose for that interview last night was to call out AEG. He didn't give a flying ...what Larry was talkin about

StillDirrty said:

But there are people like MJ that can rise above it. I think MJ just buried the emptiness he felt from a poor childhood deep inside of him which explains his state mentally through out the years. And I have to agree with what Quincy Jones said. I wish MJ didn't keep all of this inside of him because it litrally killed him. Maybe he should've took some sentiments that Janet displayed in the 'The Velvet Rope' album.

trueiopian said:

That's an album though. Michael needed friends. He was talking to mannequins at one point. & his death shows that those "friends" were phony. Because where were they when he was chopping up his face, the drugs, and his trials? A few were there but most left. From what I understand he started to isolate himself from way back in the '80s. He was neglected and shouldn't have been allowed to lose himself. I know he was a grown man but he obviously was either mentally still a child or not fully competent.
[Edited 7/21/09 10:17am]

I used to think just like you UNTIL I had a child! If you won't spank your child's ass, or children you will PAY later. You will end up like MOST of the parents on t.v. crying " I don't know what to do with my child, their so unruly and have no respect for me"!

Children will test you to see how far you will let them go. Once you have a child or children then this discuss will be interesting.

Oprah doesn't believe in spanking children, and guess what she doesn't have ANY!

This response was to Evvy
[Edited 7/21/09 10:19am]

Lisa Marie Presley's Entire Blog Entry About MJ



He Knew.
Years ago Michael and I were having a deep conversation about life in general.

I can't recall the exact subject matter but he may have been questioning me about the circumstances of my Fathers Death.

At some point he paused, he stared at me very intensely and he stated with an almost calm certainty, "I am afraid that I am going to end up like him, the way he did."

I promptly tried to deter him from the idea, at which point he just shrugged his shoulders and nodded almost matter of fact as if to let me know, he knew what he knew and that was kind of that.

14 years later I am sitting here watching on the news an ambulance leaves the driveway of his home, the big gates, the crowds outside the gates, the coverage, the crowds outside the hospital, the Cause of death and what may have led up to it and the memory of this conversation hit me, as did the unstoppable tears.

A predicted ending by him, by loved ones and by me, but what I didn't predict was how much it was going to hurt when it finally happened.

The person I failed to help is being transferred right now to the LA County Coroners office for his Autopsy.

All of my indifference and detachment that I worked so hard to achieve over the years has just gone into the bowels of hell and right now I am gutted.

I am going to say now what I have never said before because I want the truth out there for once.

Our relationship was not "a sham" as is being reported in the press. It was an unusual relationship yes, where two unusual people who did not live or know a "Normal life" found a connection, perhaps with some suspect timing on his part. Nonetheless, I do believe he loved me as much as he could love anyone and I loved him very much.

I wanted to "save him" I wanted to save him from the inevitable which is what has just happened.

His family and his loved ones also wanted to save him from this as well but didn't know how and this was 14 years ago. We all worried that this would be the outcome then.

At that time, In trying to save him, I almost lost myself.

He was an incredibly dynamic force and power that was not to be underestimated.

When he used it for something good, It was the best and when he used it for something bad, It was really, REALLY bad.

Mediocrity was not a concept that would even for a second enter Michael Jackson's being or actions.

I became very ill and emotionally/ spiritually exhausted in my quest to save him from certain self-destructive behavior and from the awful vampires and leeches he would always manage to magnetize around him.

I was in over my head while trying.

I had my children to care for, I had to make a decision.

The hardest decision I have ever had to make, which was to walk away and let his fate have him, even though I desperately loved him and tried to stop or reverse it somehow.

After the Divorce, I spent a few years obsessing about him and what I could have done different, in regret.

Then I spent some angry years at the whole situation.

At some point, I truly became Indifferent, until now.

As I sit here overwhelmed with sadness, reflection and confusion at what was my biggest failure to date, watching on the news almost play by play The exact Scenario I saw happen on August 16th, 1977 happening again right now with Michael (A sight I never wanted to see again) just as he predicted, I am truly, truly gutted.

Any ill experience or words I have felt towards him in the past has just died inside of me along with him.

He was an amazing person and I am lucky to have gotten as close to him as I did and to have had the many experiences and years that we had together.

I desperately hope that he can be relieved from his pain, pressure and turmoil now.

He deserves to be free from all of that and I hope he is in a better place or will be.

I also hope that anyone else who feels they have failed to help him can be set free because he hopefully finally is.

The World is in shock but somehow he knew exactly how his fate would be played out some day more than anyone else knew, and he was right.

I really needed to say this right now, thanks for listening.




~LMP

StillDirrty said:

Well, every album has a message. And she would explain her reason for the 'The Velvet Rope' album and it was because of her childhood she said that she had to visit it in order to let go of it (Does that make sense ). It would've been nice if MJ did the same. And the reason why MJ was so lonely is because of his fame. When you're as famous and rich as he was(especially in his prime) you don't know who to trust anymore because the people around you become phoneys that are only trying to get one thing and that's money. He obviously dismissed these toxic mothafuckas out of his life for good. But they eventually worked their way around back into his life. Joe and Leonard Rowe explained this last night.
[Edited 7/21/09 10:29am]

Copycat said:

I read that Lisa tried to convert
Michael to scientology and he
wasn't falling for the crap!

trueiopian said:

he raised her so it's his fault she was a one time Ho.

"Le Doya, chile you aint got the sense god gave a mule, and I don wanna whoop ya cuz you kinda pretty like ya momma back in the day. With that said, git out der and shake wut yo momma gave ya and don come back here broke neitha!"

purplesweat said:

I got 1,000 chill bumps listening
to this...

Chic35 said:

This sounds like Joe, he
has always been Over the TOP!

DesireeNevermind said:

Katherine said that La toya turned into a hoe because of Jack Gordan
[Edited 7/21/09 10:39am]

trueiopian said:

I don´t think MJ kept all inside. Just listen to History album. To me, Mike was full of emotions and he always let them out. You could get him to tears, you could get him angry. Actually, he was one of the most emotional man I´ve ever seen. A person not showing his feeling was the last thing I viewed him as.
And I am not sure how much he really isolated himself. I mean you hear people saying he would cut himself of, but then you have people like Miko Brando, his father, Elizabeth, Brat Ratner... I mean with all the private pictures being revealed, you can see he did hang out with people. Now of course, we´ll never know how often, but I don´t think he was living that isolated life. And it is actually surprising to me, that he did have a handful of friends and that he was able to trust some people being used all his life by so many.

trueiopian said:

Whatever she was a hoe because she wanted to be for that moment. It was funny when the brothers got together to go rescue LaToya's grown ass from her hubby! If LaToya is that submissive I'd like to get a hold of her....

dag said:

Well, of course he was emotional - he's was an aritst. But I do believe he kept a lot of things in him which explains why he never came to terms that he's not a child. I think MJ didn't trust anyone not even Elizabeth Taylor. You can have many, many friends and still be lonely. MJ was/is loved by so many people around the world and it's evident at his concerts and outings but he was obviously felt lonely a la Stranger in Moscow. So just because he had a group of friends doesn't mean he felt loved or trusted them.

Chic35 said:

Yea, I think it was her way of rebelling against her family
too bad nobody gave a fuck
[Edited 7/21/09 10:51am]

Pal: Debbie Rowe Wants What's Best for the Kids
By Sara Hammel and Champ Clark
July 21



There is the Debbie Rowe captured in a photo that shows her red-eyed and crying as she watches a TV that shows her children taking the stage at Michael Jackson's memorial.

Then there's the Debbie Rowe who commented to British morning show GMTV in 2003: "Because you give birth, because you impregnate someone, that does not automatically give you that title of mother or father. My kids don't call me Mom because I don't want them to."

So who is the real Debbie Rowe?

"At the end of the day, Debbie just wants what's best for the children," Rowe's close friend – and a former business partner of Jackson's – Marc Schaffel tells PEOPLE. "Her interest is that the children are going to be taken care of."


Leads Simple Life

Rowe is the biological and legal mother of Prince Michael, 12, and Paris Katherine, 11 (Prince Michael II, or "Blanket," 7, was born to an unknown surrogate), and has said since Jackson's June 25 death that she is considering asserting her parental rights and filing for custody of the children – including Blanket.

Living on her ranch in Palmdale, Calif., where she tends to her horses and dogs, Rowe "is a simple-living person," Schaffer says. "Does she have to live in a mansion in Beverly Hills? No. Would she probably go to a more secure, gated area if she were to get fulltime custody? Probably."

While it is unclear exactly how the children view Rowe – whether as an acquaintance, aunt, friend of the family or even as their mother – she has definitely made an effort to see them over the years, says Schaffel, who adds: "Debbie does love those kids. She really does. Absolutely."


Custody Concerns

Why is Rowe stepping in now? Explains Schaffel: "Debbie's deal was that Michael would take care of the children. That's what she was comfortable with."

With the kids' grandmother Katherine Jackson petitioning for custody, Rowe is concerned about other potential influences in their lives, such as Michael's father Joe Jackson.

"Obviously, Michael had a very, very bad relationship with his father," says Schaffel. "[In his will] he didn't name Joe to watch his children. He named his mother. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if Michael said in the past that he was beaten and roughed up by Joe, that he wouldn't want his own children exposed to the same thing."


Extended Family

Rowe, who (if a custody agreement isn't hammered out before then) plans to attend a Los Angeles Superior Court hearing on July 20 for temporary guardianship of the children, told a reporter for Los Angeles station NBC 4 she would consider seeking a restraining order to keep Joe away from the children.

That said, says Schaffel, Rowe would make sure the children have constancy and substantial visitation with the rest of their extended family. "Even if at the end of the day Debbie is given full custody, it's not that she won't allow other people to see the children.

"People don't know Debbie," Schaffel says. "If one of her dogs is sick, or one of her horses is sick, she will stay up all night long sleeping on the floor of the barn with them. Debbie is not a cold person. She is the furthest thing of it. She is a very loving, warn, motherly type person."

trueiopian said:

Well, that´s true as well.
It´s hard to say who he trusted and how much, we´ll never get into his head. I would like to believe he did trust some, at least Elizabeth.

trueiopian said:

Ha Ha they sure didn't give a damn!


They were busy with their own lives!



It looks like a black eye to me!

DesireeNevermind said:

According to reports, Joe did try to convert to the JWs but immediately backed out of it.

Chic35 said:

Oh it is. Jack was physically abusive to 'Toya throughout their short marriage.

MICA JEKSON!!!

Timmy84 said:

Joe was never a JW never-