New topic
Printable| Author | Message |
We have paid respect, now a critical discussion of MJ I am 38, I grew up with MJ, I remember me and my friends as kids sitting in front of the TV watching thriller and Beat It, I should have been his target audience as kid, but I just never gravitated towards him.
Even as a kid myself, I felt his image and music was for a younger crowd. Even as MJ continued to be a mega star. I remember walking down the street with a friend as a kid, I had just listened to "Billie Jean" for the first time on the radio, telling him, “Do you remember Michael Jackson, the kid from the Jackson 5, he has a great new song out, its called "Billie Jean" its awesome” When I said it I must have been 13, but I remember I said in a dismissive manner, because we were listening to what we thought was grow-up music by "The Police" "Prince" "SOS Band" While i have a lot of respect for MJ, I could never connect with him or his music. I find interesting that so many kids today connect with MJ above other acts, even their own contemporaries. He was a Peter Pan type figure, that non-jaded kids of all ages gravitated to and jaded kids like me never understood. Beyond the funeral and the investigation into his death, I would like hear peoples opinions on MJ's music and his persona, especially from the folks my age that witnessed first hard his rise to fame. [Edited 7/11/09 11:50am] | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
lock You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
ehuffnsd said: lock
wtf? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
ehuffnsd said: lock
This locking shit is annoying me. There's no way we can discuss all aspects of MJ in those two stickies.  “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
violetblues said: ehuffnsd said: lock
wtf? It's coming. Unless we protest..... now! “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
he WAS a good singer in the studio, and a reasonable dancer on stage. but one of the most over rated artists of all time. he had promise as a kid, but it's the people who made the videos, and quincy jones that took a simple singer and shot him to stardom
people didn't copy him or take inspiration from him no more than any other major artist he is the coca cola of the pop world, known and drunk by everyone, but anyone who knew drinks wouldn't say it was the best drink in the world it's the over rated nature of MJ, and his lunatic fans that makes critics react adversely towards him | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
midnightmover said: ehuffnsd said: lock
This locking shit is annoying me. There's no way we can discuss all aspects of MJ in those two stickies. exactly, especially if they are only about devotion. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I always think of MJ as a near perfect "production-wise" singer/dancer performer ...
that having been said i never got into him . I never liked "thriller" - that video so i never really gravitated to that album - sure , my sister had it ... but i didnt think it was "near perfect" etc ... I remember when the janet/mj duet "scream" was debuted and i thought "this cant be that good , can it ?" ---- and after seeing it - i thought that was a long hit outta the park ! that having been said again - the guy was so flawed that i feel bad for his kids ... all the excesses that he had in his life ... truly sad ... Colonel Angus may be smelly. colonel angus may be a little rough . but deep down ... Colonel angus is very sweet. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
midnightmover said: violetblues said: wtf? It's coming. Unless we protest..... now!  "Picket lines and picket signs..."
 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
unique said: he WAS a good singer in the studio, and a reasonable dancer on stage. but one of the most over rated artists of all time. he had promise as a kid, but it's the people who made the videos, and quincy jones that took a simple singer and shot him to stardom
people didn't copy him or take inspiration from him no more than any other major artist he is the coca cola of the pop world, known and drunk by everyone, but anyone who knew drinks wouldn't say it was the best drink in the world it's the over rated nature of MJ, and his lunatic fans that makes critics react adversely towards him He already had stardom before he teamed up with Quincy. Q helped him get to another level, but he was a star since he was 11, no matter what anyone says you can't take that away from him. I personally believe he was a better dancer when he was more spontaneous i.e during his late teen years. The moonwalk and crotch grabbing never did it for me. He was also a wonderful & diverse singer, but I think his choice of music towards the end as well as in latter years he became more reliant on the dance meant he didn't utilize his voice the way he should. I don't think he was overrated at all, I think by people focusing on Thriller exclusively meant that he was underrated, a lot of the time. No cares to mention the wonderful albums like Destiny and Triumph which he wrote and produced with his brothers. He was more than a one album wonder, much more than that. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Michael Jackson had a great career prior to Thriller. The celebrity affect that came from the album overshadowed just about everything else. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
whatsgoingon said: unique said: he WAS a good singer in the studio, and a reasonable dancer on stage. but one of the most over rated artists of all time. he had promise as a kid, but it's the people who made the videos, and quincy jones that took a simple singer and shot him to stardom
people didn't copy him or take inspiration from him no more than any other major artist he is the coca cola of the pop world, known and drunk by everyone, but anyone who knew drinks wouldn't say it was the best drink in the world it's the over rated nature of MJ, and his lunatic fans that makes critics react adversely towards him He already had stardom before he teamed up with Quincy. Q helped him get to another level, but he was a star since he was 11, no matter what anyone says you can't take that away from him. I personally believe he was a better dancer when he was more spontaneous i.e during his late teen years. The moonwalk and crotch grabbing never did it for me. He was also a wonderful & diverse singer, but I think his choice of music towards the end as well as in latter years he became more reliant on the dance meant he didn't utilize his voice the way he should. I don't think he was overrated at all, I think by people focusing on Thriller exclusively meant that he was underrated, a lot of the time. No cares to mention the wonderful albums like Destiny and Triumph which he wrote and produced with his brothers. He was more than a one album wonder, much more than that. sometimes i think the people that could agree with me best would be the fans that knew the music the best, but when it comes to MJ the fans seem to put on a blinkered view to protect the memories of the past, which is completely unnecessary and pointless the solo work with quincy was a notable step up in production and quality from anything before hard, particularly the early jackson 5 motown work. i'm not denying he wasn't popular and famous before then, and i should point out that as a kid he was an impressive singer and dancer, perhaps moreso due to the fact that he was a kid, performing as good as any adult, but 10-15 years later and he just lost it, opting to mime onstage instead of put on the performances that he did as a kid he wasn't a one hit wonder by any means whatsoever, but his songwriting wasn't exactly of shakespearian quality. just look at most of the lyrics written down, they are simple and childish, perfect for pop music, but far from high art the most dissapointing aspect of his career was his "live" shows where he mostly phoned it home and lipsynched to over rehearsed dance moves. considering he did so much as a kid, it's particularly dissapointing that he did so little onstage as an adult during his solo shows. i just wonder how things would have been had he sang live properly on stage | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
My prediction:
Please use the MJ stickies
 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Timmy84 said: Michael Jackson had a great career prior to Thriller. The celebrity affect that came from the album overshadowed just about everything else.
i agree partly, it was MJ's choice of personal life that overshadowed things more than the celebrity affect. he feed the celebrity lifestyle, either on purpose with barbaric chambers and elephant bones, or not, when it came to his child abuse cases, drug abuse, sham weddings, and extremely dodgy adoptions he only really has himself to blame for that, the press and media only reacted to what he did himself | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Michael before Thriller was not all about dancing. He focused mainly on the singing.
After Thriller, he molded himself to a pop star to gain a bigger audience of fans. In my opinion, as a singer, Michael's best singing was showcased in the Triumph era. As an all around pop-star (with dancing), it was the Dangerous era. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
suga10 said: Michael before Thriller was not all about dancing. He focused mainly on the singing.
After Thriller, he molded himself to a pop star to gain a bigger audience of fans. In my opinion, as a singer, Michael's best singing was showcased in the Triumph era. As an all around pop-star (with dancing), it was the Dangerous era. i agree with you on before thriller, and it's a shame he didn't keep that up. but dangerous was the second worst album (after invincible), very very dated. out of the new material on history, there were some great songs, some of his best, but the remaining material was shit by comparison, similar in style to that of dangerous, but as the good stuff was so good, it make the poor stuff seem a lot worse | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
unique said: whatsgoingon said: He already had stardom before he teamed up with Quincy. Q helped him get to another level, but he was a star since he was 11, no matter what anyone says you can't take that away from him. I personally believe he was a better dancer when he was more spontaneous i.e during his late teen years. The moonwalk and crotch grabbing never did it for me. He was also a wonderful & diverse singer, but I think his choice of music towards the end as well as in latter years he became more reliant on the dance meant he didn't utilize his voice the way he should. I don't think he was overrated at all, I think by people focusing on Thriller exclusively meant that he was underrated, a lot of the time. No cares to mention the wonderful albums like Destiny and Triumph which he wrote and produced with his brothers. He was more than a one album wonder, much more than that. sometimes i think the people that could agree with me best would be the fans that knew the music the best, but when it comes to MJ the fans seem to put on a blinkered view to protect the memories of the past, which is completely unnecessary and pointless the solo work with quincy was a notable step up in production and quality from anything before hard, particularly the early jackson 5 motown work. i'm not denying he wasn't popular and famous before then, and i should point out that as a kid he was an impressive singer and dancer, perhaps moreso due to the fact that he was a kid, performing as good as any adult, but 10-15 years later and he just lost it, opting to mime onstage instead of put on the performances that he did as a kid he wasn't a one hit wonder by any means whatsoever, but his songwriting wasn't exactly of shakespearian quality. just look at most of the lyrics written down, they are simple and childish, perfect for pop music, but far from high art the most dissapointing aspect of his career was his "live" shows where he mostly phoned it home and lipsynched to over rehearsed dance moves. considering he did so much as a kid, it's particularly dissapointing that he did so little onstage as an adult during his solo shows. i just wonder how things would have been had he sang live properly on stage I have seen him with his brothers and solo, on both ocassions he wasn't miming and he put on brilliant shows both times. However I must admit I did prefer the Triumph tour rather than the Bad tour simply because with his brothers there is more of a connection with the audience. With the Bad concerts although he put on a brilliant show, he tended to find it more difficult in relating to his audience. No one saying his song-writing was the very best, infact some times his music could came across as very childish, but alot of his music did have depth and he could convey his message clearly, alot of the time. " Blues Away" one of his earliest self-penned songs was about depression and in the light of what has happened makes it even more poignant. Songs like "Billie Jean" and "Beat it" tell there own stories. Too many people concentrate on Thriller and forget most of Michael vintage material comes well before Thriller. [Edited 7/11/09 13:09pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
To be honest, his greatest albums besides Off the Wall were Destiny and Triumph with the Jacksons. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
The producton on the Q produced albums is spectacular.
I was just noticing over last couple of weeks how fantastic "Off The Wall" and "Thriller" sound. The production is fantastic, those songs sound as fresh today as they did when they were released, something that can not be said about the rest of his newer releases. [Edited 7/11/09 13:22pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
unique said: suga10 said: Michael before Thriller was not all about dancing. He focused mainly on the singing.
After Thriller, he molded himself to a pop star to gain a bigger audience of fans. In my opinion, as a singer, Michael's best singing was showcased in the Triumph era. As an all around pop-star (with dancing), it was the Dangerous era. i agree with you on before thriller, and it's a shame he didn't keep that up. but dangerous was the second worst album (after invincible), very very dated. out of the new material on history, there were some great songs, some of his best, but the remaining material was shit by comparison, similar in style to that of dangerous, but as the good stuff was so good, it make the poor stuff seem a lot worse I'm not taking about the Dangerous album, I'm talking about him as an all-around performer. His creativity as an artist was at its peak during this era. [Edited 7/11/09 13:22pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
The subject of the thread made me cringe, It was that hard for you guys to wait so much time to criticize MJ, I have news for you, The criticizing about MJ never stopped on here since the day he died, so the subject of this thread is really pointless and ridiculous.
If you don't connect with mj in music or not intertesed in him then why the hell you are opening a thread about him, Just to critisize him?  I just don't understand the point of this thread..MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Timmy84 said: To be honest, his greatest albums besides Off the Wall were Destiny and Triumph with the Jacksons.
This is nothing more than personal opinion and musical taste.  MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
seeingvoices12 said: Timmy84 said: To be honest, his greatest albums besides Off the Wall were Destiny and Triumph with the Jacksons.
This is nothing more than personal opinion and musical taste. Well I'm just expressing mine's. [Edited 7/11/09 13:37pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Timmy84 said: seeingvoices12 said: This is nothing more than personal opinion and musical taste. Well I'm just expressing mine's.
[Edited 7/11/09 13:37pm] I know
and I expressed Mine, the words " best album" differs from one to another. MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
seeingvoices12 said: The subject of the thread made me cringe, It was that hard for you guys to wait so much time to criticize MJ, I have news for you, The criticizing about MJ never stopped on here since the day he died, so the subject of this thread is really pointless and ridiculous.
If you don't connect with mj in music or not intertesed in him then why the hell you are opening a thread about him, Just to critisize him? I just don't understand the point of this thread..Please! all art should be critiqued, and discussed, if this offends you please choose another thread. My point wasnt to pick on poor Michael, just try and have a discussion that wasnt about his funeral, but the music and the persona he left behind in a critical discussion. [Edited 7/11/09 13:40pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
violetblues said: seeingvoices12 said: The subject of the thread made me cringe, It was that hard for you guys to wait so much time to criticize MJ, I have news for you, The criticizing about MJ never stopped on here since the day he died, so the subject of this thread is really pointless and ridiculous.
If you don't connect with mj in music or not intertesed in him then why the hell you are opening a thread about him, Just to critisize him? I just don't understand the point of this thread..Please! all art should be critiqued, and discussed, if this offends you please choose another thread. My point wasnt to pick on poor Michael, just try and have a discussion that wasnt about his funeral, but the music and the persona he left behind in a critical discussion. [Edited 7/11/09 13:40pm] Please.... His perosna has been discussed to death here, before and after his death. Plus, you have a sticky for this,I don't mind critisim about MJ, I was just telling you that the critisim about MJ nevered stopped here.. I find it hard to believe to start a thread about someone you never liked MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
seeingvoices12 said: violetblues said: Please! all art should be critiqued, and discussed, if this offends you please choose another thread. My point wasnt to pick on poor Michael, just try and have a discussion that wasnt about his funeral, but the music and the persona he left behind in a critical discussion. [Edited 7/11/09 13:40pm] Please.... His perosna has been discussed to death here, before and after his death. Plus, you have a sticky for this,I don't mind critisim about MJ, I was just telling you that the critisim about MJ nevered stopped here.. I find it hard to believe to start a thread about someone you never liked You find it hard to believe? We should only discuss things which we like? Yes there are two other stickies for you to wallow in fanaticism, this thread was not meant to be another one.. My post was not disrespectful just another perspective. [Edited 7/11/09 13:55pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
violetblues said: seeingvoices12 said: Please.... His perosna has been discussed to death here, before and after his death. Plus, you have a sticky for this,I don't mind critisim about MJ, I was just telling you that the critisim about MJ nevered stopped here.. I find it hard to believe to start a thread about someone you never liked You find it hard to beleive? We should only discuss things which we like? Yes there are two other stickies for you to wallow in your fanatasism, this thread is not it. Thank for being respectful  and what do you call starting a thread about someone you never liked?
Look, I don't like many artists but I don't start thread about and tell people ..Hey you all " start critisim about someone here" , I find that really weird and ridiculous especially if you don't interested in that artist at all... Plus, me posting in This thread will give it a value, The thread doesn't have any value to offer other than generating more argument.. MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
whatsgoingon said: unique said: sometimes i think the people that could agree with me best would be the fans that knew the music the best, but when it comes to MJ the fans seem to put on a blinkered view to protect the memories of the past, which is completely unnecessary and pointless the solo work with quincy was a notable step up in production and quality from anything before hard, particularly the early jackson 5 motown work. i'm not denying he wasn't popular and famous before then, and i should point out that as a kid he was an impressive singer and dancer, perhaps moreso due to the fact that he was a kid, performing as good as any adult, but 10-15 years later and he just lost it, opting to mime onstage instead of put on the performances that he did as a kid he wasn't a one hit wonder by any means whatsoever, but his songwriting wasn't exactly of shakespearian quality. just look at most of the lyrics written down, they are simple and childish, perfect for pop music, but far from high art the most dissapointing aspect of his career was his "live" shows where he mostly phoned it home and lipsynched to over rehearsed dance moves. considering he did so much as a kid, it's particularly dissapointing that he did so little onstage as an adult during his solo shows. i just wonder how things would have been had he sang live properly on stage I have seen him with his brothers and solo, on both ocassions he wasn't miming and he put on brilliant shows both times. However I must admit I did prefer the Triumph tour rather than the Bad tour simply because with his brothers there is more of a connection with the audience. With the Bad concerts although he put on a brilliant show, he tended to find it more difficult in relating to his audience. No one saying his song-writing was the very best, infact some times his music could came across as very childish, but alot of his music did have depth and he could convey his message clearly, alot of the time. " Blues Away" one of his earliest self-penned songs was about depression and in the light of what has happened makes it even more poignant. Songs like "Billie Jean" and "Beat it" tell there own stories. Too many people concentrate on Thriller and forget most of Michael vintage material comes well before Thriller. [Edited 7/11/09 13:09pm] i think childish is the best way to describe the lyrics, but in saying that it's pop music, not great literature or epic music, so with pop music no-one cares about the words you are singing as long as it's catchy and the song has a good melody, and billie jean sums that up. the lyrics would never win an award for oustanding acheivement, but it's a perfect pop record. it's just stupid to try and make the music out to be something more than it is, enjoy thriller and off the way for the well produced catchy music it is, and don't let the videos change your mind | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
seeingvoices12 said: violetblues said: You find it hard to beleive? We should only discuss things which we like? Yes there are two other stickies for you to wallow in your fanatasism, this thread is not it. Thank for being respectful and what do you call starting a thread about someone you never liked?
Look, I don't like many artists but I don't start thread about and tell people ..Hey you all " start critisim about someone here" , I find that really weird and ridiculous especially if you don't interested in that artist at all... Plus, me posting in This thread will give it a value, The thread doesn't have any value to offer other than generating more argument.. Lord have mercy! MJ was a major part in everyone my age's pop history, so i cant discuss any aspect of pop history that i wasnt a huge fan of? c'mon, Now i know why pople were wanting this thread locked, you cant talk about MJ in any fashion without it delving into crazyville. [Edited 7/11/09 14:10pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |