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Thread started 07/09/09 4:31pm

scriptgirl

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Is the music of Robert Johnson all it is cracked up to be?

I know he is a legendary blues musician, but and since I am relatively new to listening to the blues, does Robert Johnson's music deserve the accolades?
"Lack of home training crosses all boundaries."
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Reply #1 posted 07/09/09 4:42pm

pulpfictionfan

I'd say so, but it's not for everyone, like anything else. Lots of people just can't get "into" music from that period.
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Reply #2 posted 07/09/09 5:13pm

scriptgirl

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Oh-does it sound like an old man singing-sorry, that is how most blues sounds to me
"Lack of home training crosses all boundaries."
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Reply #3 posted 07/09/09 5:24pm

NDRU

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I'd say yeah it's great and he's great, but the recordings are solo guitar & voice, scratchy, old, etc.

Not something everyone will appreciate.
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Reply #4 posted 07/09/09 5:40pm

Timmy84

If you like raw country blues recorded on an old 78" or 33", you'll dig it, if not, go back to your CDs and listen to B.B. King or something, lol. I can dig Robert though. nod
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Reply #5 posted 07/09/09 5:45pm

NDRU

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Timmy84 said:

If you like raw country blues recorded on an old 78" or 33", you'll dig it, if not, go back to your CDs and listen to B.B. King or something, lol. I can dig Robert though. nod


I was young when I first head him and listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn & Robert Cray. I embarrassingly admit I wasn't too thrilled at first listen to Robert Johnson

But his songs, his voice, and his guitar are all about as good as it gets. His guitar playing is like a piano player or something. He's not playing crazy solos, he's just providing amazingly complete accompaniment to his voice.
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Reply #6 posted 07/09/09 5:46pm

Timmy84

NDRU said:

Timmy84 said:

If you like raw country blues recorded on an old 78" or 33", you'll dig it, if not, go back to your CDs and listen to B.B. King or something, lol. I can dig Robert though. nod


I was young when I first head him and listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn & Robert Cray. I embarrassingly admit I wasn't too thrilled at first listen to Robert Johnson

But his songs, his voice, and his guitar are all about as good as it gets. His guitar playing is like a piano player or something. He's not playing crazy solos, he's just providing amazingly complete accompaniment to his voice.


And that's why I dug him. He ain't too fancy, he just keeps it simple. I like that. nod When he plays his guitar and sings, he takes you somewhere. A lot of the Southern blues singers had that feeling to just tell it like it is anyway.
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Reply #7 posted 07/09/09 5:49pm

NDRU

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Timmy84 said:

NDRU said:



I was young when I first head him and listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn & Robert Cray. I embarrassingly admit I wasn't too thrilled at first listen to Robert Johnson

But his songs, his voice, and his guitar are all about as good as it gets. His guitar playing is like a piano player or something. He's not playing crazy solos, he's just providing amazingly complete accompaniment to his voice.


And that's why I dug him. He ain't too fancy, he just keeps it simple. I like that. nod When he plays his guitar and sings, he takes you somewhere. A lot of the Southern blues singers had that feeling to just tell it like it is anyway.


yeah there's a magic to it. The distance that those recordings give the music just adds to it. Some of the songs are downright spooky, even though I don't subscribe to that selling of the soul business.

But my listening had to become more sophisticated for me to appreciate his simplicity, and to recognize his complexity.
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Reply #8 posted 07/09/09 5:58pm

Timmy84

NDRU said:

Timmy84 said:



And that's why I dug him. He ain't too fancy, he just keeps it simple. I like that. nod When he plays his guitar and sings, he takes you somewhere. A lot of the Southern blues singers had that feeling to just tell it like it is anyway.


yeah there's a magic to it. The distance that those recordings give the music just adds to it. Some of the songs are downright spooky, even though I don't subscribe to that selling of the soul business.

But my listening had to become more sophisticated for me to appreciate his simplicity, and to recognize his complexity.


Nah I think his death was an accident too I don't believe that selling soul shit either (like Tony and them are trying to indicate, lol). But yeah the songs do scare you a bit.
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Reply #9 posted 07/09/09 6:04pm

theAudience

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scriptgirl said:

I know he is a legendary blues musician, but and since I am relatively new to listening to the blues, does Robert Johnson's music deserve the accolades?

I think so.

1) The Myth

His initial lack of ability was supposedly noted by Blues legend Son House, "Such another racket you never heard! It'd make people mad, you know. They'd come out and say, "Why don't y'all go in there and get that guitar from that boy!". When Son House heard him about a year later he was amazed at the skill he'd developed in this relatively short time. Hence, the HE Sold His Sold To The Devil at The Crossroads legend was born.


2) Unique guitar/vocal style

This has been attributed to the fact that he was adept at playing/singing most styles of the day (Blues, Pop & Country).


3) Great songs

Just do some research on how many times his songs have been covered (along with the different artists).


4) Short life/Small catalog

If only to add to The Myth
He was only 27 years old when he died which gave him a recording/performing life of approximately 6 or 7 years.


The 2 original albums...



...King Of The Delta Blues (Vols. 1&2)


All 29 songs he ever recorded (along w/alternate takes), which were done in just 2 recording sessions, are included on this 2 CD release...



...Robert Johnson - The Complete Recordings




...Son House on Robert Johnson




...Cross Roads Blues




...Love In Vain




...Terraplane Blues




...Hellhound on My Trail



tA

peace Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431
"Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all."
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Reply #10 posted 07/09/09 7:47pm

angel345

NDRU said:

Timmy84 said:



And that's why I dug him. He ain't too fancy, he just keeps it simple. I like that. nod When he plays his guitar and sings, he takes you somewhere. A lot of the Southern blues singers had that feeling to just tell it like it is anyway.


yeah there's a magic to it. The distance that those recordings give the music just adds to it. Some of the songs are downright spooky, even though I don't subscribe to that selling of the soul business.

But my listening had to become more sophisticated for me to appreciate his simplicity, and to recognize his complexity.

I saw a documentary on Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil in exchange of his musical talent. Didn't Eric Clapton dedicate "Crossroads" to him?
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Reply #11 posted 07/10/09 12:26pm

markpeg

Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page and especially Keith Richards all worship at the alter of Robert Johnson, so that tells you something.
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Reply #12 posted 07/10/09 1:05pm

RipHer2Shreds

I'm partial to acoustic blues, and he's one of the best (certainly one of the most influential). Come on in My Kitchen is one of my favorite pieces of music ever.


Come on in My Kitchen

When I was a teenager, I used to check these two records out of the library repeatedly. This was before the auto-renewal option which meant I'd return it, come back the next day and get them again. lol This was before his complete recordings were released. At the time it didn't feel like I was missing anything, but it made me want more.


King of the Delta Blues Singers (1966)


King of the Delta Blues Singers Vol 2 (1970)

I was just as fascinated by the album covers as I was the content. Oddly enough, I've never really cared a great deal for Sweet Home Chicago, a signature tune for him and WIDELY covered.
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Reply #13 posted 07/10/09 1:07pm

RipHer2Shreds

theAudience said:

1) The Myth

His initial lack of ability was supposedly noted by Blues legend Son House, "Such another racket you never heard! It'd make people mad, you know. They'd come out and say, "Why don't y'all go in there and get that guitar from that boy!". When Son House heard him about a year later he was amazed at the skill he'd developed in this relatively short time. Hence, the HE Sold His Sold To The Devil at The Crossroads legend was born.

So many little things played into that myth that gave it legitimacy He also left town not able to play, came back and was guitar. Claims that he was ashamed of his "deal with the devil" were also given more credence, because he played facing into a corner as if he were ashamed of his "sudden talent." lol
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Reply #14 posted 07/10/09 1:12pm

RipHer2Shreds

On a related note, a clip from the 1986 film Crossroads which takes its backstory from the Johnson legend. Ralph Macchio goin' toe to toe with the devil's stooge, Steve Vai. lol Ol' Scratch is sitting in the audience takin' in the action.

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Reply #15 posted 07/10/09 2:19pm

diamondpearl1

Robert Johnson's music is somethin like drinkin Jim Beam,Johnny Walker, Ole Grandad mixed with Moonshine in a shot glass with no chaser.....
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Reply #16 posted 07/10/09 9:55pm

SUPRMAN

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diamondpearl1 said:

Robert Johnson's music is somethin like drinkin Jim Beam,Johnny Walker, Ole Grandad mixed with Moonshine in a shot glass with no chaser.....

I agree, but I'm not a drinker.
I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #17 posted 07/11/09 7:02am

angel345

RipHer2Shreds said:

theAudience said:

1) The Myth

His initial lack of ability was supposedly noted by Blues legend Son House, "Such another racket you never heard! It'd make people mad, you know. They'd come out and say, "Why don't y'all go in there and get that guitar from that boy!". When Son House heard him about a year later he was amazed at the skill he'd developed in this relatively short time. Hence, the HE Sold His Sold To The Devil at The Crossroads legend was born.

So many little things played into that myth that gave it legitimacy He also left town not able to play, came back and was guitar. Claims that he was ashamed of his "deal with the devil" were also given more credence, because he played facing into a corner as if he were ashamed of his "sudden talent." lol

Because he knew that once he sold his soul, the devil was coming back to claim it.
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Reply #18 posted 07/11/09 8:36am

TD3

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Yes, Mr. Johnson is the real deal to me.

Robert Johnson was a brilliant guitarist, singer and songwriter, the complete package. Mr. Johnson was greatly influenced by Son House, Charlie Patton, and others but what he did do was, incorporated all those influences to create a new sound. His chord progression, alternate tunings, his complex chordal movements, and his use of turnarounds, ( "Kindhearted Woman" for example).... the way which he structured his songs. I don't think anyone's "sound" was as unique or distinctive til Mr. Jimi Hendrix arrived on the scene.

Mr. Johnson was however an innovator in playing an independent bass line, two part chording, and vocals. His singing and guitar playing may sound "simple" but it wasn't. biggrin You hear that constant bass line on song such as, [i]"Sweet Home Chicago"). You of course hear Johnson's influences in Mud Waters singing and playing guitar and most of the blues-men who came from the Mississippi Delta to Chicago, they did however play solid body guitars and plugged in. biggrin
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Reply #19 posted 07/11/09 10:37am

scriptgirl

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What are chordal movements, alternate tunings and turnarounds?
"Lack of home training crosses all boundaries."
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Reply #20 posted 07/11/09 5:02pm

diamondpearl1

scriptgirl said:

What are chordal movements, alternate tunings and turnarounds?



technical bells and whistles that when used right can bring u 2 tears, close your eyes in thought, shake a tail feather or two....
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Reply #21 posted 07/11/09 8:39pm

jjhunsecker

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It's great, but not easy listening. This type of blues is very different for a modern audience to comprehend (and the sound quality makes it even harder). For ears trained on rock n' roll or R&B, an artist like Muddy Waters or Howlin' Wolf, or even John Lee Hooker, might be an easier entry point
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Reply #22 posted 07/12/09 1:28am

TD3

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diamondpearl1 said:

scriptgirl said:

What are chordal movements, alternate tunings and turnarounds?



technical bells and whistles that when used right can bring u 2 tears, close your eyes in thought, shake a tail feather or two....


falloff That's a concise spot on explanation dp11

Without getting too deep in music theory....

For singer/guitar players standard tuning E-A-d-g-b-e'. sometime certain chords lack that full sound you'd like to hear. Alternate tunings allows you to use open strings to your full advantage. In the case of Johnson (old time blues players) he retune three strings, the two E strings drop to a D and the A string drops down to a G.... D G D G B D, this tuning allowed him to play all straight barre chords across the fretboard, so he could play with a slide, for example. Johnson used other tunings open A & E... In terms of his chord movements it was his choice of "unconventional" chords in a 12 bar blues chord progression that gave him is own unique sound.

For a classic Robert Johnson example, take Sweet Home Chicago. Think of the the quick sequence of fingerpicked chords after the end of the 3rd vocal line: he sings, "Back to the land of California, to my sweet home Chicago..." and then the guitar goes dee-dee-dee dee-dee-dee dee dah dah etc., leading back into the next verse. This quick sequence of fingerpicked chords is the turnaround, leading back to the beginning of the musical form and the start of the next verse ("Oh, baby don't you want to go....")







_____
[Edited 7/12/09 1:32am]
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Reply #23 posted 07/12/09 1:54pm

scriptgirl

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Thanks! I still don't get it, but I love to talk about the technical aspects of music.
"Lack of home training crosses all boundaries."
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Reply #24 posted 07/12/09 3:00pm

TD3

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scriptgirl said:

Thanks! I still don't get it, but I love to talk about the technical aspects of music.


Your welcome. Script checkout Ovation (cable) today/tonight, they have a documentary about Robert Johnson on 7:00pm central time.... 5:00pm Pacific time, right? Check your listings. smile
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Reply #25 posted 07/12/09 3:09pm

scriptgirl

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Thanks!
"Lack of home training crosses all boundaries."
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Reply #26 posted 07/12/09 4:19pm

TD3

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No problem. smile

Here's my favorite Johnson song, "Love In Vain"





http://www.youtube.com/wa...ZMHiQYL9c4
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Reply #27 posted 07/12/09 4:24pm

blackguitarist
z

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theAudience said:

scriptgirl said:

I know he is a legendary blues musician, but and since I am relatively new to listening to the blues, does Robert Johnson's music deserve the accolades?

I think so.

1) The Myth

His initial lack of ability was supposedly noted by Blues legend Son House, "Such another racket you never heard! It'd make people mad, you know. They'd come out and say, "Why don't y'all go in there and get that guitar from that boy!". When Son House heard him about a year later he was amazed at the skill he'd developed in this relatively short time. Hence, the HE Sold His Sold To The Devil at The Crossroads legend was born.


2) Unique guitar/vocal style

This has been attributed to the fact that he was adept at playing/singing most styles of the day (Blues, Pop & Country).


3) Great songs

Just do some research on how many times his songs have been covered (along with the different artists).


4) Short life/Small catalog

If only to add to The Myth
He was only 27 years old when he died which gave him a recording/performing life of approximately 6 or 7 years.


The 2 original albums...



...King Of The Delta Blues (Vols. 1&2)


All 29 songs he ever recorded (along w/alternate takes), which were done in just 2 recording sessions, are included on this 2 CD release...



...Robert Johnson - The Complete Recordings




...Son House on Robert Johnson




...Cross Roads Blues




...Love In Vain




...Terraplane Blues




...Hellhound on My Trail



tA

peace Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

THERE it all is....To me personally, DEFINATELY one of my favorite guitarists AND vocalist. I strongly suggest anybody who isn't familiar with the man, to quickly do so.
SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him."
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Reply #28 posted 07/13/09 10:39am

NDRU

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TD3 said:

diamondpearl1 said:




technical bells and whistles that when used right can bring u 2 tears, close your eyes in thought, shake a tail feather or two....


falloff That's a concise spot on explanation dp11

Without getting too deep in music theory....

For singer/guitar players standard tuning E-A-d-g-b-e'. sometime certain chords lack that full sound you'd like to hear. Alternate tunings allows you to use open strings to your full advantage. In the case of Johnson (old time blues players) he retune three strings, the two E strings drop to a D and the A string drops down to a G.... D G D G B D, this tuning allowed him to play all straight barre chords across the fretboard, so he could play with a slide, for example. Johnson used other tunings open A & E... In terms of his chord movements it was his choice of "unconventional" chords in a 12 bar blues chord progression that gave him is own unique sound.

For a classic Robert Johnson example, take Sweet Home Chicago. Think of the the quick sequence of fingerpicked chords after the end of the 3rd vocal line: he sings, "Back to the land of California, to my sweet home Chicago..." and then the guitar goes dee-dee-dee dee-dee-dee dee dah dah etc., leading back into the next verse. This quick sequence of fingerpicked chords is the turnaround, leading back to the beginning of the musical form and the start of the next verse ("Oh, baby don't you want to go....")







_____
[Edited 7/12/09 1:32am]


yeah a friend recently tuned my acoustic guitar to open G (in 20 years of playing I'd never tried it) and was amazed at how it immediately gives you that "authentic blues" sound, as well as how it opens up new possibilities just to not be knowing exactly what you're doing lol
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Reply #29 posted 07/13/09 12:34pm

theAudience

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NDRU said:

yeah a friend recently tuned my acoustic guitar to open G (in 20 years of playing I'd never tried it) and was amazed at how it immediately gives you that "authentic blues" sound, as well as how it opens up new possibilities just to not be knowing exactly what you're doing lol

Using a guitaritst most have heard of, "Keef" got on the "Open G" tuning train (not to mention the Chuck Berry express) and has ridden it to fame and fortune.

A series of videos highlighting some of the popular Stones songs using that tuning technique.







Then there's your "Drop-D" tuning (along with others), but that's another story.


tA

peace Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431
"Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all."
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