Graycap23 said:

I did. I spoke with quite a few Memphis musicians about Elvis. Most of them have nothing but respect for him. Some are bitter because he made it big, and they didn't, but I did not meet one single person who said that he was racist. Not one. Most appreciated his effort for helping black music break into the mainstream. Because without a white man singing R&B, white teenagers across the country would never have been exposed to it.

It's hard to comprehend by modern standards, but Elvis was a true rebel back in the day. He associated with black musicians when that was considered a career killer.

The "shine shoes" comment is a myth. It never happened, and even Chuck D had to take it back later.

We can argue about Elvis's legacy, his impact, his importance, if he benefited black musicians or not. We can do all that. But we can not argue about him being racist. If he was, there is certainly absolutely no proof for it. None.

i read he said black man has more soul in his finger than a white man does in his whole body or soemthing of that nature

paisleypark4 said:

If he said that, it would be an incredibly stupid thing to say.

MrSoulpower said:

Well I read it on here years ago when we had this debate in 02 I believe and it stuck with me..

It is so easy to find a million quotes of Elvis celebrating black culture and musicians during the 50's that I am truly amazed that the myth of his racism is still so prevalent.

Many people try to say that he was just trying to be politically correct or further his career. Given the racism in 50's, his acknowledgment of being influenced by black musicians hurt his career more than helped it. I can't remember who coined the phrase, but I believe many people are embracing a kind of "presentism" when they look back at Presley's career. We try to apply our "modern" understanding to things that happened in the past, but it just isn't accurate. That a southern man was willing to not only acknowledge but celebrate black culture openly even boldly, was an act of open rebellion against the status quo and racism specifically.

If you were to read the media coverage at the time, you would be shocked at how much venom was focused at him. The establishment hated Elvis for the integration of culture and values he represented. They feared him enough to draft him at the height of his fame.

MrSoulpower said:

Exactly so I might as well repost my take on this again for what it's worth...

The time has come to put this b.s. to bed once and for all.
It has never been proven that Elvis made these comments.
For more details - http://www.snopes.com/mus...esley1.asp


Elvis was a close friend of the Newborn family in Memphis...



...Who are the Newborns?


Let's start with Phineas Newborn...



"One of the most technically skilled and brilliant pianists in jazz during his prime.."

"Newborn could be compared to Oscar Peterson in that his bop-based style was largely unclassifiable, his technique was phenomenal, and he was very capable of enthralling an audience playing a full song with just his left hand."

"He started out working in Memphis R&B bands with his brother, guitarist Calvin Newborn, and recorded with local players including B.B. King in the early 1950s. Brief stints with Lionel Hampton and Willis Jackson preceded a period in the military (1952-54). After moving to New York in 1956, Newborn astounded fans and critics alike. Although he worked briefly with Charles Mingus (1958) and Roy Haynes, Newborn usually performed at the head of a trio or quartet."

...www.allmusic.com


Then there's Calvin Newborn...



"The often overlooked brother of Phineas Newborn, guitarist Calvin Newborn has almost as much command of his instrument as his pianist sibling. He's an excellent melodic interpreter, plays with great fluidity and blues sensibility, and can smoothly execute complex chord progressions or subtly accompany vocalists."

"Newborn worked and recorded with his brother from 1953 to 1958, and a year later joined Earl Hines.' Newborn recorded with Hines in 1960, and toured and recorded with Lionel Hampton in both New York and Paris, as well as Jimmy Forrest, Wild Bill Davis, Al Grey and Freddie Roach in the early '60s."

...www.allmusic.com

I don't think it made the Hustle & Flow released soundtrack, but he does a tune in the movie called After Hours Blues. ( http://cdbaby.com/mp3hifi...rn2-07.m3u )

Now it just so happens that Calvin Newborn currently resides in Jacksonville, Florida and is a good friend of some of the members in Tribal Disorder.

Calvin came and sat in at one of our gigs last year and I was able to talk to him about his family's relationship with Elvis.
He told me that Elvis used to come by their house all the time, was a good friend of the family and anything but a racist.

As a matter of fact, Elvis got some of his stage moves directly from watching...



..."Flyin' Calvin" perform.

A Calvin Newborn tribute site that mentions the Newborn's relationship with Elvis:
http://yellowdogrecords.c...raphy.html

Calvin and Phineas played on very early...



...B.B. King recordings. (Calvin's daughter is also pictured)


“Calvin Newborn – man, do I love that fella! He came to New York and sat in with us at a gig at Minton’s Playhouse, way back in the day. He tore the place up! When I found out who his brother was, I said no wonder! There’s no slack in that family name.”

~George Benson


I'm no big Elvis fan, but i'm a fan of the truth.


For the record, my favorite Elvis tune is Jailhouse Rock...



...That performance section in the movie is classic.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

In the original thread titled The Elvis "Quote" Myth, a poster named Eileen scanned and posted the Jet magazine article.



But I guess the facts may get in the way of continuing a dead argument.


Till this time next time.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

paisleypark4 said:

Presley said something like that but in the context of answering a question about the influence of black music on his own style. I think he meant it in very much the same context as when he said that he could never hope to match the power of Fats Domino, Bill Kenney or other African American singers of the 50's.

Based on that quote, if Elvis was a racist...he didnt like white people lol!

MrSoulpower said:

Maybe we can now close this issue on this site and othes as well. I'm not sure who made up this terrible lie, but let's end this here.

Elvis was adored by black musicians. James Brown once called him "my soul brother" and Jackie Wilson was friends with Elvis, Elvis was one of the people to see him after his coma. Jackie also made this statement that "every black entertainer copied their mannerisms after Elvis". Little Richard called him an integrator.

As for that "racist claim" he made, that wasn't even confirmed to be true. It said he said it in Boston to Edward Murrow but no one had a document saying where Elvis said this nor did Elvis get interviewed in Boston either. When JET magazine asked Elvis, he showed the respect to black artists.

So saying he's racist is pushing it. Even Chuck D himself said that he was wrong for what he said in '89 on "Fight the Power" after doing research on Elvis.

Empress said:

Exactly. Ironically, the people here who keep pushing these rumors are the same people who complain when Michael Jackson is being accused of child molestation. It seems as to some are not willing to hold people of different races to the same standard of proof and truth.

theAudience said:

Once again, hats off to you for providing some well researched background info.

Finally! I'm SO glad this topic was FINALLY addressed in this forum. Elvis' racist tendencies have been overlooked here for far too long. I can't believe it took this long to bring it up...

MrSoulpower said:

It doesn't matter. He's posted this information a few times and it's fallen on deaf ears. At any rate...

In the end it will not matter how much information/proof is provided that Elvis didn't make the comment, there will always be people who will not give up the notion that he did. I guess it allows them to minimize his success and his impact...at least in their imaginations. Really when someone can say, "regardless of all the information and research you provide, I am still gonna believe...just because...", what is the point?

kalelvisj said:

But I think that even in a musical context, it is a wrong assumption. Only black folks got enough Soul to create good Soul music? Hardly a reality. Especially in the hey-day of Soul music, in the 1960s, a lot of major players were white. Be it Steve Cropper and Duck Dunn, which are 50 percent of one of the most soulful rhythm sections ever. Half of the Memphis Horns was white. The Mar-Keys were all white.
Down in Muscle Shoals, there were some amazing white musicians and songwriters, for example Dan Penn and Spooner Oldham, who wrote some of the greatest Soul hits in history and played on them.
I'm not even talking about producers like Tom Dowd and label owners.

White folks had a huge impact on Soul music, and in spite of Jim Crow and segregation, many of Soul music's greatest efforts were collaborations between soulful black and white folks. Unfortunately, we forgot a lot about this part of history, especially in a world where much of the music business is once again segregated, this time by choice.

RipHer2Shreds said:[quote]

MrSoulpower said:

Excellent!

I really would like to hear from those, who claim that Elvis was racist, where they got their assumptions from and if they would mind to make up their claims with facts. Anyone?

MrSoulpower said:

I completely agree with what you are saying, and I don't believe that Elvis really intended any insult or disrespect to other white artists. I do think he intended for it to be huge compliment to the black musical community, and to rebel against the racist notions in the mainstream press of the time. I think it was part of his "modest rebel" attitude.

Thanks for the thoughtful and insightful response!

Peace
[Edited 7/8/09 12:41pm]

Elvis was influenced by the black church. He didn't steal anyones sound, unless you think black artists steal as well. Elvis may have had bigoted ideas, but there is no proof he was a hard core racist.

kalelvisj said:

The only negative things I heard about him from black (and white) session musicians in Memphis was that he acted like a diva when he recorded at Stax in 1973 and didn't want to use any of the Stax house band members (even though they eventually ended up being on his Raised on Rock album.

But but then again, they said the same about Wilson Pickett, whom they couldn't stand.

MrSoulpower said:

Well there is no denying that the Elvis of 73 was a different cat than the Elvis of 56-70. I think that by the time he go to stax it wasn't so much about the not wanting to work with the stax musicians as it was, his insecurity surfacing and his needing the closeness of people he knew. If I remember correctly, some of the musicians from Stax also played on the 70 nashville sessions, and they were all disappointed and even heart broken on the sad change in his general attitude.

Here's a great read on the subject.....

http://www.elvisinfonet.c...acist.html

kalelvisj said:

Absolutely. This behavior had nothing to do with racism.

vainandy said:

"They wouldn’t let Black music through. He opened the door for Black music."
- Little Richard.

This quote is exactly what I was referring to earlier. Elvis opened the doors. Some black folks today may view him as someone who "stole" black music. But ironically, those black musicians who worked with Elvis or knew him didn't look at it that way. Because even if they did not make the millions that he made, it still opened a door for them.

Besides, how can one race steal music from another? You can't steal a musical genre. When white folks started copying Jazz from blacks, blacks still were playing Jazz. Sure, white bandleaders like Paul Whiteman and Glenn Miller cashed in while musicians like Fletcher Henderson and Duke Ellington struggled. That was unfortunate, but you cannot copyright an entire musical genre and allow only members of a certain race to play it.

Nobody can steal music. Once can only steal songs.

Elvis didn't steal anything. Should he not have sang R&B songs and Gospel songs because he was white? And as far as I know, he never withheld money from the people who wrote his songs.
[Edited 7/8/09 13:12pm]

MrSoulpower said:

Right ON.

Gray... didn't U know that was a myth??

[b] He "borrowed" music from black artist in his time.

NastradumasKid said:

The correct word would be influenced, just as Prince is influenced by Santana and Hendrix, and Chuck Berry was influenced by Hank Williams and Muddy Waters, and Michael Jackson was influenced by Smoky Robinson and Fred Astaire.

If you are using the word "borrowed" based purely on the basis of Presley's skin color, then it isn't his racism in question...it is yours. If you are using the word borrowed in some other context, please explain.

kalelvisj said:

[b]What fucking shit? Why the fuck I have to be the racist? I never imply such a thing. I read in history books that he took some black artist music and made it his own and got a hit while some of the black artist died broke.

kalelvisj said:

Influence is the key.
Even Jazz was influenced by white music - by military marching bands as well as classical music. Nobody would claim that Jazz musicians ripped off those genres.

Giovanni777 said:

Racism NEVER existed in the U.S.
Elvis
The US gov't
the KKK
Hoover
Reagan.....on and on is a figment of the imagination.
Got it!

kalelvisj said:

You really pissed me off you know that? God!!!