midiscover said:

I'll be waiting...

Timmy84 said:

No, I don't think of Janet in that way. As I said before, she's always been the 'Jackson apart' in many ways. Her music was/is very producer driven whereas the brothers had far more talent and the sound was coming from them, frankly. Janet's always been very pop anyway and that's not really what "the legacy" was built on. MJ only went "pop" in the most commonly used sense after many years of doing rnb w/ his brothers and solo (Off The Wall). If Janet follows tradition in anyway, it's post Thriller. JMHO tho.

His brothers, unlike Janet, fell into the one Jackson of each gender thing. There were 5 too many. I think the brothers simply felt like they couldn't do anything w/o MJ, labored in hope that they would reunite, and the industry probably had the same views. Maybe this will change as far as behind-the-scenes work opportunities.

Timmy84 said:

The thing is, the Jackson brothers don't need to build on someone else's legacy, they have their own. Frankly, much of their problem has been stubbornness. They sat around waiting on Michael to do another family fest and didn't make serious moves to do their own things. Well now they know that ain't no reunion gonna happen, so now it's time to do something w/ their talents. I hope they realize this and get opportunities.

Sean Lennon has actually done quite well for himself in terms of an indie career. I don't think he really wants big fame. This is also true for Dhani Harrison and it was for Julian L. Zac Starkey has had an amazing career...he's a far better drummer than ol Ringo ever was.

I never said it would be easy, but it can be done. Much of this is about the Jackson family dynamics as opposed to lack of opportunities, I suspect. The sitch has changed now.

brooksie said:

I agree! Her first two albums were a lot like the J5 albums with the whole bubblegum pop music and she grew in to her own when she did "Control"

brooksie said:

But see this is what I'm wondering: the Jacksons haven't recorded nothing in 20 years and as far as I know they haven't done any background work or anything like that.

The Marleys have worked behind the scenes too yes but they are also stars in their own light in the reggae world. You got at least three Marleys whose records have won them Grammy Awards, other Marleys have seen their albums go gold and platinum and when they come onstage, you can definitely feel the love between them, they never allowed the media bullshit to affect them in the way I think inadvertently the Jacksons did while Michael was around.

Also let's not forget we can clown the Osmonds all we want but when Donny left them and the family went bankrupt in the end of the 1970s, they actually reorganized the group (without Donny) and had a successful career as country musicians in the 1980s. And they did this when all family members were living.

And I can understand Janet not wanting to be linked to "Jacksons" but in a way we can't deny her place in Jackson folklore. Like it or not, she contributed to the Jacksons' legacy as did Michael. What was Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon and Randy doing when MJ and Janet were releasing hit records and touring (let's not forget Michael hadn't put out anything in eight years, I'm not even counting the remix CD)? And when their careers were in trouble or they were dormant, I didn't hear much either.

It's easy to say that the Jackson brothers would get opportunities now that their brother is deceased but the question is will they and when?

No doubt the Jacksons are a talented bunch but do they really have the strength in two years to reform? Because reforming means "starting over" and the Jacksons never were ones to "start over", you know what I mean?
[Edited 7/4/09 23:11pm]

Speaking of the Marleys, here's a nice article from '07:

Can Bob Marley’s sons Ziggy, Stephen, Julian, Kymani and Damian Keep The Marley Tradition Alive?

Bob Marley throughout his musical career was able to inspire many people with the liberation philosophy of Rastafari as well as guiding many artists to understand there social responsibility to the community and in this feat Marley would have felt that his work was done.

Of all Marley’s achievements the one that he would cherish the most was the fact that he was able to inspire his children, especially his sons. Marley had many children but to many men the most cherished offspring is to have a son to follow in the tradition established.

Marley’s sons Ziggy, Stephen, Julian, Kymani and Damian have all followed the path made by their dear father.

It is Through Bob Marley's sons that his Legacy of Musical Genius is Being Memorialized.

One has to be astonished by the fact that a single man was able to change the world with his individual talent and also produce an entire family of musical geniuses.

Marley’s talent was so wide and diverse that it seems that all Bob Marley's sons carries with them a piece of that talent.

In particular Bob Marley’s sons have been able to carry on the musical tradition of Bob Marley; they have formed the bedrock of the Marley family.

When we speak of Marley one is not only referring to Bob himself but to the wide array of talent that exists in the family. The Marley brothers have become for reggae music what the Jackson 5 is for American pop music. The Marley family is an indisputable powerhouse in the music industry.



One of the Reasons Why the Marley Sons Have Taken the Musical Path and Have Reached Such Remarkable Success is Because of the Inspiration They Received From Their Father.

Each son holds there own personal memory of there father that serves as the guiding light in all their activities.

In an interview given before they went on to headline their Roots, Rock, Reggae Festival Tour in 2004 discussed the songs that Marley sang that inspired them through the years.

For Bob Marley’s son Ziggy the oldest son and arguably the most well known of Bob Marley’s children noted the importance of the song “Survival”. Ziggy explained his love for the song stating:

“ The song appeared when I was going to high school

The whole survival album inspired me and helped me

To focus on my music. The concept of it was about The slave trade bringing black people from Africa to

The west. We’re survivors of that. “

This understanding of the album is most compelling and reflects a genuine passion for the type of pan-Africanism displayed by his father.


For one of Bob Marley’s sons Kymani the song “I Know” reflects the ideas that he most respected by his father.

Kymani in explaining his love for the song states:

“I know” I sing it on stage very often. The lyrics are very

powerful It’s basically telling you that when times get

hard, you should look forward and carry on. Know that there

is a superior being there to guide you in life”

This is a personal statement of the various ways in which Rastafari has helped to guide his life through all the turmoil and struggle of the music industry.

The choice of the song reflects a son who sympathized and appreciated the various personal sacrifices of his father in the midst of a fast paced entertainment industry.


For Stephen,one of Bob Marley’s sons, the song “Slave Driver” reflects those values he respected most in his father. The fierce hatred of injustice and the tradition of anti-colonial politics of Bob Marley appeal to this young revolutionary seeking to change the world.

Stephen in discussing the song states:

“ It’s a very strong message. Even though we are free to

Walk about we are still enslaved. It can be mental enslavement.

And if your mind is not free it is hard to attain anything else in life.”

Stephen echoes the message of Marcus Garvey promoted by his father that in order for people to liberate themselves this must be done mentally before any other action can take place.


Another of Bob Marley’s sons Damian the song “War” is what he most remembers from the vast collection of musical work produced by his father. Damian in discussing the song states:

“ Its really relevant to the world right now, with all

The war going on in the Middle East and elsewhere One of the greatest lines in the song is “Until the colour

Of a man’s skin is of no significance than the color of his eyes

War”.

For another of Bob Marley’s sons Julian believes that the greatest song ever written by his father was “Redemption Song” as he feels that it spoke to the heart of the black condition. Julian in discussing the song states: “ It’s a very important song, when I was 4 or 5

That was one of the songs that sounded different

To me. It was like a mirror a reflection of our lives.”

Can Bob Marley’s Sons Fill Their Fathers Shoes?

As the Marley’s sons reflected on the musical works of there father there is a sense in which they are in awe of the man who so close to them. For the average admirer a personal relationship with one of the greatest musicians in the world is a dream. It seems that the Marley sons lived the dream of many music lovers who sought an in-depth and private moment with Bob Marley.

The memory of Bob Marley is something that continues to guide the men in their life and it is something that the sons reflect on at times. Its not just knowing the importance of there fathers work to reggae music but recognizing that at each of there own performances they are filled with the burden of filling there fathers shoes.

For many fans of Bob Marley the sons represent the only way they will be able to experience a taste of the Marley experience.

Kymani Marley discussed the influence that Bob had on his life in an interview in 2004 stating:

“ My father is my greatest influence

in life. And I'm not just saying that

because he is my father,"

the 28-year-old Marley says.

"When I'm on stage, when I'm writing,

whatever – you know what I mean -- I'm

always paying respect to him. In my

everyday life I live in his honor.”

In the interview Kymani discusses the personal pressure put on him by the fans to represent their father.

It is a burden that Bob Marley’s children grown to accept but Kymani reveals it can be pressuring at times:

“ For me, it's difficult for people to

allow me to be myself.They're always making

a comparison and have their own conception

of what I am supposed to be like," he

says."I have lived my own life and lived my

own struggles and that's all I can be.I am

not Bob Marley. I am a seed. There is no

way to compare his sons, but sometimes it

gets a little weird."

Ziggy the eldest of Bob Marley’s sons has also felt the pressure to fill the shoes of his dad however he has recognized the fact that this is impossible.

It is pressure however that Ziggy understands and does not hide from stating:

“ My father's music is a universal

message of righteousness, equality for all.

He made humanitarian music for everyone.

Realistically, we are and always will be

Bob's sons.We don't sit around thinking we

have to distance ourselves him.”

It is through the personal reflections of the Marley sons on their father that reveals the personal side of Bob Marley.

For the Marley sons it is not only the burden of filling their fathers shoes but a recognition that there own personal stories form part of the story of Bob Marley.

In an interview taken in 2004 Julian and Ziggy discuss their fondest memories of their father.

In remembering his father Ziggy states:

“ My earliest memory would have to be getting the belt from him when I misbehaved. How could I forget that? My father was into discipline.”

For Ziggy it was the personal experiences of his father that he remembers most, while for Julian it’s the awe of seeing his father performing live. Julian states:

It would have to be seeing him on that huge stage in London, 1980. I was only a baby (4 years old) but I remember how big the stage was, and how many people were in the audience.

Keeping the Marley Tradition Alive!

The Marley sons are not only reflecting on the past glories of their father, they are helping to build upon the tradition established by their father.

As integral members of the Bob Marley Foundation they are helping to spread the community spirit promoted by Bob. In there musical endeavors the message of hope and social revolution is a constant theme.

As a family the brothers have established the Roots, Rock, Reggae Festival in 2004 to continue the positive vibration established by Bob Marley.

Reflecting on the importance of music in these times Ziggy states:

“ Musicians are like parents. Anytime you try to force something on (people), they'll rebel. It's not the role of music to tell you who to vote for. We can try to raise consciousness, and let the kids decide for themselves. But we have to be very careful how we do it. If you made a song called `Vote For John Kerry' what kid is going to listen to it? The spirit of the youth is rebellion, so if you tell them to do something, they'll do the opposite.”

In his personal pursuits Ziggy is charting his own path in the music industry much like his father in his sole album released in 2004 entitled “Dragonfly”.

Commenting on the new thrust in his music Ziggy states: As an artist I need to experience different things, to see the world and have different energies. It helps me grow as a person to be outside my element.

The evidence of Ziggy’s new element is found in the various songs of the new album. In the song “I Get Out” Ziggy tackles the corrupt music industry for their abuse of musicians. The song “True to Myself” focuses on the need for people to respect themselves; one can see in this song the influence of his father.

In the song Shalom Salaam Ziggy focuses on the Palestinian and Israeli conflict in the Middle East, displaying his willingness to tackle controversial political subjects. The album is not only a reflection of his personal growth but is a continuation of a tradition started with his involvement in the Melody Makers to keep his fathers message of hope alive to the new generation.

Another one of Bob Marley’s sons that is keeping the tradition alive and well is Damian Marley.

Damian Marley through his two albums “Mr.Marley” and “Halfway Tree” has been able to rock the charts and is on a path of massive commercial success like his father.

Already Damian Marley has been able to receive a Grammy award a feat that his father did not accomplish.

Damian commenting on this in an interview with Afiwi.com states:

"Well, it's another notch on the belt. It's

just like another step you take in your

career you- know? It's a great step. The

Grammy is a well respected award amongst

the music fraternity. At the sametime

still,our father didn't receive a Grammy award in the Reggae category, and everyone

know that our Father is one of the greatest

Reggae musicians, you-understand? So it's

really the love of the people that is the

greatest reward for us, you-understand? So

we give thanks for the Grammy, but as we

say, the love of the people is the

greatest reward."

When Damian received the Grammy in 2001 it was another achievement for the entire Marley family. Interestingly enough of all the sons Damian Marley share the mixed background of his father, whose father was a white military officer and his mother an inner city girl.

It is fact that Damian recognizes and inspired the title of his grammy award winning album “Halfway Tree”.

In discussing the album with Afiwi.com Damian states:

“Seen! Nice. You know Halfway Tree, the big

roundabout. You have Hope Road on one side

and the next side you go down to Three

Mile, you- understand? When you check it,

one side leads you to the ghetto or slums

and the other side leads you uptown to the

more posh areas, you-understand? So it's

like a bridge. Halfway Tree is like a

bridge between the two sides. My mom Cindy

Breakspeare came from uptown, my dad from

downtown, you understand? So me myself now

come like that same Halfway Tree bridge. So

that's the relevance.”

The Marley brothers are representing the tradition left by their father Bob Marley through their music and upstanding character. There personal achievements are a testimony to the inspirational powers of Bob Marley.

Timmy84 said:

IIRC, some of the brothers (incl MJ) were involved w/ 3T. I know that 3T aren't major stars, but they've got a little something going on even now as producers and writers. Marie Osmond, BTW, had a huge career outside of her brothers, in country music...so the Osmond brothers going country was logical.

The Marleys were children when Bob died, so they didn't have much work to judge by, but Rita was a major force in developing the whole shebang. If the Jacksons have some brains and moxie, why not? Hell, they can start w/ Janet! Not a bad place to start...she needs some new sounds, IMHO.

I'm not taking Janet out of the lore, but Timmy I'm pointing out that her career path and associations w/ the Jackson brothers is quite complex. If anything, Janet made another branch on the Jackson tree, but her original fame was built on things other than music. Her brothers' fame was based on music alone.

brooksie said:

Well that's right. Most of them (MJ included) did work with 3T and I think Tarryl Jackson is probably the only one right now that is doing studious work. I'm talking about the brothers. I mean in successful terms. Yeah I know some of their children are in show business but none of their records have been out and if so, you'll hear it on the Jackson family websites and on MySpace. The Jacksons could damn near save the industry if they get enough support from labels to build them up as artists rather than Michael and Janet's family members because they're gonna have a harder road to climb. I'm not knocking on them but it's taking them this long to get to this point. We'll see if a new star emerges from the Jackson family or if the older legends of the family could come back and do it again.

Like I said, I'll be waiting.

Timmy84 said:

As crazy as it sounds, I'm curious about Joe's record venture. If run properly, it could have major possibilities. Where Rita Marley was smart (this doesn't apply to the Jacksons, just an example tho) was that she spent years in court fighting for both Bob's publishing and issues surrounding Tuff Gong. I'd always wondered why the Jacksons never started a label of their own because that's what really put the Marley's on the map as an empire. They distribute major labels from overseas, record themselves and major artists, and w/ Stephen at the helm...are serious producers. I'm curious to see if the Jacksons can do something similiar, esp if Katherine ends up being in charge of the kids' trusts. From what I gather, there's material there to build something on. In theory, MJ's catalog could be worth more than the Beatles'....the Marley fortune is built on the Marley catalog and the Jacksons aren't lacking in this area. It all depends on how it's handled.
[Edited 7/4/09 23:34pm]

brooksie said:

Joe's business ventures have never worked though. Neither has the squandered opportunities of the Jacksons'. I don't know if Joe's venture will work now that his son is dead. But you know even if they do succeed, I'll be looking at it like "what took you so long?" They do have lots of material, it'll depend on how they plan to use it for merit. But let's wait until after the situation with Michael is settled, WHICH could take some time. And by then, would the Jacksons be able to do anything afterwards? Michael left behind an indelible legacy but he also allegedly left behind a lot of questions that the family will no doubt have to settle before they could embark on another career path again.

In the meantime, you just had me ponder about something: I wonder how Tito's holding up...

midiscover said:

So true. Of the sisters, only Rebbie's "Centipede" was anything like a stereotypical "Jacksons" album. Her sounds were easily Jackson identifible. It was strictly rnb and quite adult. Shall I bring up La Toya? Her "Hearts Don't Lie" and the like was extremely pop, just like early Janet, but unlike Janet she could not dance, act, OR sing. She was just pretty....very pretty. She got a little play for that alone because she and Janet were both known and popular for their looks.

Ya know, the most rnb thing I've heard on Janet was "Diamonds" which I loved. She did that one w/ Herb Alpert. I wish she'd done stuff more like it over the years. The funk quotient was high!
[Edited 7/4/09 23:53pm]

Timmy84 said:

I saw Tito and Jackie in his Bentley. They looked OK, but you never know. They must be totally freaked out, but Tito is the one who never really showed his emotions publicly a la Joe. I recall when his (ex) wife died and he looked solid, but like he was holding it in. He looked kind of the same now. Tito is apparently quite successful in real estate, just FYI...hence the Bentley.

brooksie said:

I think you mean Marlon is successful in real estate, Tito had a blues career.

According to reports, Tito had been crying. Same with Jackie and I would imagine every other Jackson sibling.

brooksie said:

Tito is Papa's boy!
he seriously is!

Timmy84 said:

I think they both are actually. Before all this MJ stuff happened, I'd heard Tito was rollin'. However he got it, good for him! I've never heard of Tito in blues, but then again, I never looked!

I'm sure they're all handling it VERY hard. He was their brother and younger than most of them. Tho the media tries to portray the Jacksons as not being close or the least bit normal, I suspect they are, but just keep that to themselves. As they should. This IS their brother, son, father, uncle, cousin, etc....why should they be any diff than anyone else in these circumstances?

midiscover said:

IMO that Triumph album is the best Jacksons album, I love every cut off it, especially this one and "Everybody"

^^^^ That album is Victory, not Triumph. Triumph only had the 5 brothers, Jermaine hadn't rejoined then (1981). Interestingly Victory had two covers. The one in the YT thing and another one w/ little birds and stuff on the shoulders of the brothers. I have the birds cover. Triumph was a killer album tho as was Victory.
[Edited 7/5/09 0:19am]

brooksie said:

I wasn't talking about the pic brooksie, I was talking about the song playing in the video, "Your Ways", which is off Triumph.

Abdul said:

I was puzzled by the pic which is the Victory cover.

brooksie said:

I don't know what was going on but I do know they LOVED each other.

midiscover said:

Yup, he's the one most like Joe in looks and temperment it seems. It's just strange to see them all after so much time. They just kind of disappeared for a long time.

brooksie said:

I've been at Jackson forums, believe me, I've seen pictures of them, lol.

Timmy84 said:

Ya know, when I read the sticky I'm amazed that folks forget how complex families really are, esp family you DIDN'T choose. I do hope they can get thru this OK and shield the younger kids from the worst of it cuz it seems to get worse everyday. It's hard watching this from the outside, so I can't imagine what they feel on the inside.

At the end of the day, the Jacksons are a family, not just a singing group.

brooksie said:

I guess the will, in a way, doesn't say that Michael loved his family any less (even Jermaine said Michael didn't leave Joe out because Katherine and Joe are supposed to be "connected", whatever that is), but who knows?

brooksie said:

I'm not speaking looks wise
I mean he's close to Joe then any of the other siblings
Same with Janet.

midiscover said:

I've noticed that Tito and Janet seem to cling to their daddy more than the others.

Timmy84 said:

Nothing wrong with that!
In quite a few interviews she has talked about her relationship with her father and she said they're closer then ever! I remember she showed up with her dad at the premiere of Nutty Professor 2 The Klumps. Everyone was like:
I've also heard that MJ and Joe reconciled after the trials
Idk how true that is though....

midiscover said:

This probably has much truth to it because Joe was upfront and behind him 100% as were the rest of them.

midiscover said:

I knew how you meant, but the physical resemblence always struck me. I think Jermaine is quite close to Joe these days too. Their parents are getting older and maybe the kids are looking at things differently and let some bygones be bygones. Tito always seemed most like him in many ways.

As for Janet, she was the baby and a girl in a long line....sometimes parents are far easier on the last esp if it's a girl, esp fathers. Allegedly, Joe was/is crazy about his "outside" daughter Joh'Vonnie.

brooksie said:

As in?