Hey, I'm a hardcore Prince fan. I'm just a casual Michael Jackson fan. And even though I love Prince, I don't kiss his ass either. Prince is bitch enough to fight his own battles, he don't need me to fight for him. He's a mean ole bitch. That's what I love about him.

ViintageJunkiie said:

and that man lived in pain and isolation. do you think it was a fair trade off?

Michael had an extraordinary smile! Of all the pictures of him smiling...this one right here is my absolute favorite and the one that brought me to tears, when it settled in to me that he is really gone!


...

Joe is the reason Michael had problems with his self esteem and always kept getting all these surgeries to change his looks. Michael is like one of those women who have been abused by their husbands but still continue to associate with them.

I was abused by my father myself when I was growing up, both physically and verbally. But thank God I had my grandmother on my mother's side of the family that kept me every weekend, every summer, and every holiday. In other words, if school was out, I was at her house and not at home. She was there to tell me..."Don't listen to that crazy bastard. He's part of a goofy religion, he's a racist, and he's crazy as hell and everybody knows it". I had people to build me up and keep me strong but apparently Michael didn't. I can certainly feel sympathy for the way he turned out but I sure as hell have no sympathy for that asshole abusive father of his.

vainandy said:

I do agree that Joe had a part is MJ's physical appearance, but I won't say that Joe was the entire reason that MJ changed his appearance. There were other people around Michael that could have easily said some things to make him feel insecure. His brothers even teased him about his nose, so people might as well include them in one of the reasons for his insecurities instead of pushing it all on Joe. I'm not saying to show sympathy for Joe, I'm just saying that we shouldnt put all MJ's insecurities on him

Well I can say Joe will probably never let this down, but is it fair to pin it on Katherine too, damn:

Jackson family faces criticism since Michael's death

BY ROBERT KAHN | robert.kahn@newsday.com
8:43 PM EDT, June 29, 2009



Joe Jackson walks past a makeshift memorial for his son Michael Jackson outside the Jackson family compound in Encino, California. (Getty Images Photo / June 29, 2009)

It seems there's a "right" way to grieve, and then there's the very public "Jackson" way.

Observers tracking the moves of Michael Jackson's immediate family were rankled after an eyebrow-raising appearance by family patriarch Joe Jackson at Sunday night's BET Awards, where the 79-year-old briefly appeared to be hawking products for a business.

To some, the move "reeked" of hucksterism, the sad words of a salesman suddenly deprived of his moonwalking commodity. To the less cynical, it was merely a natural gesture from a man used to conducting his affairs through the media.

"Joe, on the red carpet, was an embarrassment," said Ian Drew, a senior editor at Us magazine. "It could not have looked more self-serving. It's what you've always heard about the family - they'll sell out anything, whenever they can."

There have, in fact, been a few actions by members of the Jackson family that have seemed suspect to followers, with Joe's award show "pitch" just the most notable.

On Saturday, Michael's mom, Katherine, who Monday was granted temporary guardianship of Michael's three children, was photographed leaving a Target store with a cart full of sleeping bags and toys. A touching display of a grandmother's love? Or, as some wondered Monday, a shrewd PR move by a woman looking to present herself in the best possible light for the courts?

The posts on TMZ.com, underneath a picture of Katherine headed to the parking lot, were not kind: "Without the kids, there is no $$$." "I'm sure that this woman has people to go out shopping for her." And, "It is laughable to think that a woman who sold her children should have anything to do with [Michael's]."

There was also the report this weekend in the Times of London, where one of Jackson's nannies, Grace Rwaramba, described a call from Katherine Jackson, days after her superstar son's death. Rwaramba said Katherine had raced to Michael's Holmby Hills rental home in the hours after the death to retrieve the piles of cash her son was notorious for leaving around. Sister LaToya Jackson had reportedly gone on the treasure hunt around the same time.

Others have speculated about the quick appearance of the two white Atlas Van Lines moving trucks that appeared at the home, the day after Michael's death. They wonder why one of the first things the family did, "while their youngest son's body was still warm," was to send moving vans to his home.

In his CNN interview with reporter Don Lemon, Joe Jackson introduced a man who appeared to be a business partner, then began talking shop: "Marshall and I have - we own a record company. Talking about Blu-ray technology. That's the next step," he said.

The complaints flooded blogs, such as Jezebel, where one poster called the words of the acknowledged disciplinarian "ghastly": "A man seems pursued pretty much to the grave by the demons his father planted in him, and even in death the -- ghoul is still hustling."

Lost in the outrage, though, is the fact Jackson's comments came more than three minutes into his red carpet appearance, long after his initial words about his son's death: "I'm doing pretty good. . . . It has been really tough. Remember, we just lost the biggest star in the world." Alas, to some, even that lament came across strictly as cool detachment.

Michael Jackson, some say, has always represented to his parents a source of income and fame, a fact that contributed to his depression and untimely self-destruction.

"For them to be out shopping, or promoting themselves, is typical of Michael Jackson's family - but it's an outrage, because they should be home feeling guilty for having caused his demise," said Dr. Carole Lieberman, the Beverly Hills psychiatrist who filed the first complaint against Michael Jackson with child protective services after the 2002 "baby dangling" incident.

"How could a mother be out shopping for anything when her son just died? All the people who had a role in his demise are only thinking now about what the golden goose is worth to them dead. I'm not saying his parents didn't love him, but here Joe takes this opportunity to promote a business and say his son was 'the biggest star.' You can tell, all he's thinking about is how to turn Neverland into Graceland."
[Edited 6/29/09 18:12pm]

ViintageJunkiie said:

it's called therapy people. Michael was only a victim because he chose to stay the victim instead of dealing with his issues.

Money talks...bullshit walks...all day long!!!

Right now...the fans hold all the power!! Regardless of what the hell Joe Jackson wants, regardless of what the family wants, regardless of what the bookies, promoters, inside folks and everybody else wants!! The time is right here...right NOW!!! Once the dust has settled, it will be a done deal!

ehuffnsd said:

That's what I'm saying. Michael was an individual. He could have dealt with his issues instead of trying to change his facial features. I even feel like MJ regretted all his surgeries seeing that Quincy Jones and Teddy Riley both mentioned how Michael would sit and apologize for what he did to his face. At the end of the day, his problems were still there because he ran away from them.

ehuffnsd said:

Michael did isolate himself from the world. He even said that all he knew was show business, but we can't put all the blame on Joseph

The Doctor's lawyer is on Larry King now. He's not looking like a very confident fellow I tell ya His face spells out- bullshitting.
[Edited 6/29/09 18:34pm]

The Doctor's lawyer is on Larry King now. He's not looking like a very confident fellow I tell ya His face spells out- bullshitting.
[Edited 6/29/09 18:34pm]

The Doctor's lawyer is on Larry King now. He's not looking like a very confident fellow I tell ya His face spells out- bullshitting.
[Edited 6/29/09 18:34pm]

ViintageJunkiie said:

Not ALL the blame but some of it can be attributed to him. Michael had low self-esteem too.

ViintageJunkiie said:

i'm going to spend two hours with my therapist dealing with early childhood tramua. not going to be fun, but i can't get better with out it. Michael played the biggest whole in this by not taking care of himself. not joe, not the media, MICHAEL. i feel sorry for his family and for him, however it all could have been avoided with some good weekly therapy.

ViintageJunkiie said:

Timmy84 said:

ALL of it. he chose not to deal with his issues, not joe not the fans not the family.

ehuffnsd said:

I also think his religion had something to do with why he didn't seek help.

Children immitate their parents. When his siblings teased him about his nose, I'm sure they had probably heard their father do it first. And everybody jokes around and teases from time to time but when you see that a particular joke strikes a nerve in the child, it's time for that particular joke to stop. And it's up to the parent to notice it struck a nerve and stop it, not encourage it. I can just see Joe now...."Aw hell, that will help make a man out of him".

ehuffnsd said:

I meant Joe not Michael.

Timmy84 said:

sorry misread.

Children immitate their parents. When his siblings teased him about his nose, I'm sure they had probably heard their father do it first. And everybody jokes around and teases from time to time but when you see that a particular joke strikes a nerve in the child, it's time for that particular joke to stop. And it's up to the parent to notice it struck a nerve and stop it, not encourage it. I can just see Joe now...."Aw hell, that will help make a man out of him".

Children immitate their parents. When his siblings teased him about his nose, I'm sure they had probably heard their father do it first. And everybody jokes around and teases from time to time but when you see that a particular joke strikes a nerve in the child, it's time for that particular joke to stop. And it's up to the parent to notice it struck a nerve and stop it, not encourage it. I can just see Joe now...."Aw hell, that will help make a man out of him".

ViintageJunkiie said:

No, it's not a sure thing that he was the first. But when the brothers were teasing him about his nose, as a father, he should have eventually seen the effect it was having on him by his behaviour. Joe, being the strict, old school, asshole that he is probably did see it as toughening him up and making a man out of him considering that he was so shy, sensitive, and later feminine. It's hard enough to be made fun of in school or out in public, but when it happens in your own home by your own family, it's absolutely devastating.