I'm still so confused over this whole funeral business. If they want this to be a huge event I think they'll be dissapointed. Its not enough time and too far out of everyones way. Majority of the fans on the boards arent going because of these two problems. I was about to go over in 2 weeks anyway so would of happily arranged to go earlier to go to the wake, but not this soon. It's just not possible, and not fair. Sure, have the private family one now, but for the public thing it should of been better planned. Unless of course like I initially thought that this isnt really true, but I keep hearing on all the news channels it is.

utopia7 said:

My mom told me that after Elvis' private service someone had a camera ring and snapped a pic of him in the coffin and sold it for $$$$$. So really either way someone has pics. Specially with today's technology.

utopia7 said:

I'm surprised to see that most fans on the boards are ok with an open casket. As much as fans complain about the media, they don't seem to be that concerned about what the press is going to do once they get that shot of MJ dead.

utopia7 said:

My mom told me that after Elvis' private service someone had a camera ring and snapped a pic of him in the coffin and sold it for $$$$$. So really either way someone has pics. Specially with today's technology.

utopia7 said:

I'm surprised to see that most fans on the boards are ok with an open casket. As much as fans complain about the media, they don't seem to be that concerned about what the press is going to do once they get that shot of MJ dead.

Despite lazycrocketts sig

http://edition.cnn.com/20...index.html

(CNN) -- Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, the Orthodox Jewish rabbi who is known for his secular outreach and TLC show "Shalom in the Home," was friends with Michael Jackson for several years.


Rabbi Shmuley Boteach worked with Michael Jackson on the "Heal the Kids" charitable initiative.

The two worked together on the "Heal the Kids" charitable initiative and stayed in touch until the middle of the decade, when they drifted apart, Boteach has said.

He talked with CNN's Campbell Brown about his impressions of the late entertainer, including his abilities as a father and Boteach's concerns about his emotional state. The following is an edited version of that interview.

Campbell Brown: Rabbi Shmuley, welcome to you.

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, family and relationship counselor: Nice to see you, Campbell. Nice to be with you on the set. Thank you for having me.

Brown: Thank you for being here. I want to ask, you were so concerned by what you saw of Michael Jackson's drug use that all the way back in 2004, you told CNN you thought he'd die young.

I mean, what did you see that made you feel that way?

Boteach: Well, there was no one around to stop him. ... People ... are not going to interfere with what Michael was trying to do. And what he was trying to do was curb pain.

Michael always thought that he had ailments of the body. He always had a neck that hurt, a foot that was twisted. Really, he had an affliction of his soul. He was extremely lonely, he was extremely unhappy. He felt purposeless, he felt lethargic. And the way he dealt with that pain -- and he was especially afraid of evasion, of that perhaps his best years are behind him.

And instead of reinventing himself and entering a new phase, he decided to medicate away his pain. And no human body was going to -- would be able to sustain that kind of assault. This was inevitable, it was shocking, it's tragic. But it could have easily been averted.

Brown: You -- we've heard people talk about his use of Demerol, of OxyContin.

Did you talk to him about his drug use? Did you ever tell him you were worried?

Boteach: Are you kidding me?

Here's an example. You know, we went to give a lecture together at Oxford University. One of the main remedies I had for Michael's existence was to get serious. I said very few people in the history of the world, Michael, have achieved your level of notoriety. Do you realize what you could consecrate that to?

So, we gave a lecture together at Oxford University on a children's bill of rights. And Michael brings -- Michael -- he goes into these rooms with doctors, comes out light-headed, very woozy and it was always before a performance.

Michael -- you know, we think that he wasn't afraid of crowds but as I said, I think because he gave the public a key to his own self esteem, because he substituted love for attention, he was. This was always an issue before he went in front of crowds.

And I would say to him, "This is poison. This is killing you. You need to be razor sharp, Michael." And he knew that it was bad for him. But the next night we had dinner together and he stood up during dinner and I said, "Why don't you sit down." He said, "Because I took your advice. My back hurts but I'm not medicating it."

Brown: So, that's amazing to me. That he would get high and then he would be medicated before he would perform, essentially, in front of a crowd. Was he under the influence of drugs around his kids, also?

Boteach: Well, let me make something absolutely clear: I never saw Michael before a concert. I never saw him in a concert.

I'm speaking specifically as the years went on, I think Michael lived with a profound fear of rejection. And Michael told me once -- and this is a heartbreaking conversation between us -- "Shmuley, I promise I'm not lying to you," he said. "I'm not lying to you." He said that twice. "But everything I've done in pursuing fame, in honing my craft" to quote his words, "was an effort to be loved because I never felt loved." And he used to say that to me all the time.

And you can imagine if you're trying to get love from the crowd and you're not sure how they're going to react to you because time is going on, they [call you] "wacko-jacko," -- you've become a tabloid caricature. You live in phenomenal fear. And I think that a lot of this -- the prescription drugs -- was used to address and alleviate the anxiety. And it was just tragic to watch.

And a lot of questions need to be asked about who facilitated this. Because there are three kids who are orphaned right now and we need to know why this happened.

Brown: Did he separate that part of his life from his children? Were they aware of what was going on with him?

Boteach: Look, I am not someone who whitewashes Michael's sins. Michael was not a saint. He had great virtue and there was a part of him that unfortunately grew corrupt over time.

So, I have no agenda in saying this -- Michael was an extremely responsible father. I know there was that outrageous incident of the baby dangling from that patio but that actually was so out of character because if anything, he was overprotective of his children.

So, he was a very responsible father. He did not travel anywhere without the kids. The kids adored him, he adored them. In fact, in the last years of his life, that was probably the only inspiration he still received. He lived for these children and that's why I'm so concerned about their welfare because there's no mother in their life and now there's no father either.

Brown: You talk about the people around him and that that needs to be followed up on. Who were the good guys? I mean, was his family trying to get him help? I mean, obviously you talked to him but what could have been done?

Boteach: Well, let's be honest. If we in America want to have an honest conversation about Michael Jackson -- who the good guys are.

Look, Michael brought out some of the worst qualities in all of us -- in the media, in good people.

Very few people are around that level of attention. And to be around it ... [it]made you feel special. And you could see a lot of good people who started with Michael and little by little the corruption just grew. So even people who were good guys didn't necessarily remain that way.

If you look at the media circus, we're not even mourning the death of man anymore. We're just sort of thinking about an icon. So all of us are conflicted in this if you want to be honest about it.

So, but the good guys? I tried to be one of the good guys. Being a good guy meant if you had to risk your relationship with Michael, that you had to put your relationship on the line -- you had to look him in the eye and say, "Michael, you are killing yourself," or "Michael, you have -- there's no normality in your life," or "Michael, you have lost spiritual anchor."

I mean, Campbell, Michael was a very spiritual, religious man. He was not only a Jehovah's Witness, he was a missionary. ... He used to knock on people's doors selling wash towels. Then suddenly he fell out with the church. So you had this mega attention and nothing to balance and nothing to correct it. Little by little he became more egotistical.

Brown: So what did he say -- when you confronted him, when you said these things to him, how did he react to you?

Boteach: Well, for a year he listened to me and used to tell me how much he loved me and cared about me and we were very close.

I mean, I cannot begin to describe the degree of friendship that existed between us. I tried to be a Rabbi to him. But after a year -- and I believed there was a lot of progress in that year. You know, Michael came with me to synagogue. He was never going to become Jewish but he needed some sort of spiritual base. He used to come for regular Sabbath dinners at our home.

But after a year he really began to see me almost as a nuisance. I would speak to him and I could see a complete different in body posture. He would begin to cringe. He would almost curl up, evolve into an embryonic position. He was unaccustomed to hearing any kind of criticism.

And -- but then he would get his managers to sort of try to stop me and it came to a head one day in his hotel room. We went to give out books to parents of low-income families in Newark, New Jersey.

And on the way back I could see Michael was angry at me, although he never had a temper so he wouldn't show it, but he was withdrawn. So, I said, "What's wrong?" So, his manager says to me, in front of him, "Shmuley, you want to make Michael accessible and normal. Don't you understand he's famous because he's not normal. And then I understood the full tragedy of his existence. Michael was terrified that the moment he became average that the public would forget him.

And that was the end of our relationship. I knew I could not help him and I -- there was no choice but to sever the relationship.

But at that stage -- you asked who the good guys are -- you have a choice. You can either hang on as a hang-along, or you can move on. Because the orbit of a superstar is just too great to be in there partially. It's an all or nothing sum game.

Brown: Rabbi Shmuley, I mean, there have been so many rumors with regard to this story. What's the one thing that you've heard that you want to clear up about Michael Jackson? What should the public know?

Boteach: More than anything else, I want people to understand as they read all of these very unfortunate stories about Michael. And let's face it, Michael may have -- I don't know -- but may have been guilty of very serious, serious crimes.

I want people to understand that even if it were true and I have no idea if it is or it isn't, that this was a tortured, tortured soul, who from the earliest age did not know love because he felt that he had to perform to earn love. He lived in permanent insecurity. He was one of the most tortured souls I ever came across.

After all the fame and fortune there was a part of him that we almost could not reach and I would hope that the public, in judging and assessing Michael Jackson, would do so ... knowing that that child star suffered these terrible, terrible things.

That's why all you parents out there, when you're sitting with your kids and they show you their report card and it's not an A, please don't say to them immediately, you could have done better. That's what happened with Michael. And so he always had to perform and that's what ultimately killed him.

Campbell, honestly, when they announced these concerts I thought the end was near. He was in no state to do 50-odd concerts. Not a psychological state, emotional state. Michael was burned out. He was just going to get more medication to deal with his inability to live up to his former glory of self and the outcome was going to have to be tragic.

Brown: I do want to ask you, you talk about the accusations against him, criminal accusations. Did he ever talk to you about that?

Boteach: Absolutely. He said that they were absolutely not true. He promised me that he would never be alone with a child again. So I said to him, even if they're not true, Michael, after 1993, you can never be alone with a child. And he said he understood that.

I also told him, you're not the children's messiah. Like it was his 44th birthday and he invited me and my family to spend it with him at Neverland. And I could see that he was a bit depressed. I said, what's wrong. He said, I want to help kids but I can't because of all -- everything that happened.

I said, well, the best way to help kids, Michael, is not to help them directly -- you're not a messiah -- it's to inspire their parents to prioritize them. And that's when we started working together to get parents to read to their children, have regular family meals.

So he always said to me, it wasn't true, he could never harm a child, it was all lies, et cetera. I mean, you know, I knew the child who was the second accuser. And the second accusation to be honest, I never believed. I sort of knew the family, I knew the child. I was all around in the first one and he had no business getting so close to other people's children -- that's for certain. And whether he was guilty of a crime or not, he had no right at all -- whatsoever -- to share a bed with a child that wasn't his own.

But Michael crossed lines all the time. And this is part of the problem of being a superstar when no one wants to say no to you and when you simply withdraw from anyone who does say no to you.

And Campbell, I have to make a plea to the Jackson family. I met Katherine who's a very pious, very religious woman, very devout Jehovah's Witness. And I met Joe Jackson. Michael really wanted his father's approval. And he loved his father very deeply. I know that in many interviews he spoke about anger towards his father. But when he was with me he said that he lived for his father's approval and he told this to his father on the phone when I was in the car with him.

And I really think this is the time for the family to really be at the forefront of Michael's legacy and not to cross lines of saying, God forbid, his death as an opportunity for anything aside from that mourning. Because Michael wanted his father's love more than anything else. His father meant the world to him. And I think that one of the things he lived with more than anything else -- the pain he lived with -- was this constant feeling that he never quite earned his father's affection.

Brown: And just finally, for at least now, temporarily, his children are going to be with his mother. Do you think that's the right thing? Is that what he would want? That his family would be involved in taking care of these children?

Boteach: Michael adored, adored his mother. He would always call her the saint. That was the expression he used for her. He introduced me to her on two occasions. Both times she was reading the Bible when I walked in. Michael thought the world of his mother. He wanted his children to be very close to his mother.

From what I witnessed, yes, it would seem to me that that would be his wish. That he trusted his mother implicitly, he trusted her values, he trusted her character, he was inspired of her and he spoke of her with the highest devotion and love. He never uttered even a hint of criticism against his mother.

Brown: Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, so appreciate your time.

Boteach: Thank you, Campbell. And I hope that people will remember Michael in the most charitable light.
[Edited 7/1/09 0:03am]

Heal The World and Make That Change

The following was published by Karen Faye, Michael Jackson's makeup artist and long-time friend. She was working on the 'This Is It' concerts.

"I know how painful it is to loose this beautiful man....I can barely speak, but I must share with you his reason for getting on stage once again. It wasn't for money or to relaunch his career...it was to send the message that we must HEAL THE WORLD, before it's too late. He wanted to let us know that we have a four year window to get it right, to start walking the highest path, or we will loose the earth.

I want you to know he was full of love for all of you. He was looking forward to making everyone smile, and unite in these difficult times...to make the world a better place.

he was working so hard...and he was so happy when I left him on Wednesday night...this is so difficult.

I don't know why 4 years...all I can do is relay his message."

- Karen Faye (Facebook)

lazycrockett said:

Seeing Elvis and James' dead corpses was scary to me. I almost fell to the ground in tears when I saw James. The fuck was Al Sharpton thinking?

Timmy84 said:

All Sharpton is a jackass just like Joe Jackson ... this is why I chose not to participate in that million-glove-march at the Apollo it was just another opportunity for AL to go down in history camera whoring. Whilst there are fans in Harlem who were fans of James as well.(I did go to the viewing for JB to pay respect) I understood why Al Sharpton arranged the viewing for James Brown that was indeed his friend and possibly the conduit btw him and MJ. But imo just because you whip out pictures of you with a person at various events doesn't mean you were real tight.And it just seems like Sharpton has placed himself in the position of Jackson family spokesman.(Just an observation) Another reason why I stayed away from the NYC tribute is most likely half of them probably made fun of MJ while he was alive. And as far as James Brown when it happened all of a sudden there was JB music blasting everywhere homemade cd's being sold. short time after passing through Harlem everything was back to normal.

My way of tribute was attending a party ( the past Sat 27)I've been going to the past 10 years the original Michael vs P parties held by DJ Spinna...except this time as a tribute it was Micheal's music only (originally this party was a Motown anniversary party changed due to the sudden loss)the continuation will be Thurs July 2.

Here on the org I never got into the mj threads those threads were for the die-hards to debate over I just felt the man should be left alone and enjoy his music.

One more thing don't support these commemorative issues if you know for certain the same publications made a habit of posting horrible cover issues in the past.

My introduction to music time line age 3-4 was Donna Summer- Saturday Night Fever- Bee-Gees 5yrs to 34 yrs Michael Jackson-Prince-Sade
[Edited 7/1/09 1:36am]

Miko is Marlon's son and one of Michael's best friends. He was the one who patted out the flames when Michael's hair caught on fire

http://larrykinglive.blog...n-he-knew/

Michael was my idol. He’s been my father figure since my father died. It’s strange living without him. I will never be the same, and I don’t know if I’ll ever get over this loss. It’s like losing your companion, someone you always thought would be there. It’s just not right. He meant a lot to me. I feel like a different person than I was before Thursday. I feel numb — lost. He was a good friend for so many years.

I treasure the time I spent with Michael. We’d go shopping together, go to Disneyland, take trips, spend time at Dad’s house. He’d just come over and set up camp at my dad’s house for a while. I enjoyed talking about music, eating together and having fun with Michael. We were just good friends, that’s the best way I can put it. He was always there for me when I needed him, and I’d like to think I was always there for him.

I don’t really have a single memory of Michael that sticks out. It’s hard to do when you’ve been friends as long as we have. My best memories are of the time we spent talking, him hugging me, having good conversations, and making him laugh — I really enjoyed making him laugh. I could say some things — just a few words in his ear, and I could get a laugh out of him. And boy, did he have an infectious laugh.

Above all, Michael was a very caring person. He had a lot of love in his heart. He cared about everybody, especially the people on the street. He wasn’t stuck up — he had no ego, and he tried to make time for everybody because he didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. If he thought he did something wrong, it would really bother him. He had more love than anyone I know.

The Michael I saw everyday was one that loved his kids. They were his main focus. He was a very busy man, but he always made sure the kids were being looked after.

What a lot of people may not realize about Michael, is how good a businessman he was. The tour he was planning is a perfect example. He was a perfectionist, and he knew exactly what he wanted and how to get it. Everything regarding the tour had to be approved by Michael. Just because he hasn’t been on TV or out in public a lot recently, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t busy and active. A lot of people have speculated he was really stressed over the tour, but I don’t think he was. He went through the same routines he did for past tours.

I’ve thought about whether there were any similarities between Michael and my dad, and I cannot think of a single one. You’ve heard opposites attract? I think that explains their friendship. They had absolutely nothing in common, but when you got them together, you couldn’t tear them apart. He loved my dad, and they spent many days together at Dad’s house and at Neverland. They were very close.

Michael was instrumental helping my father through the last few years of his life. For that I will always be indebted to him. Dad had a hard time breathing in his final days, and he was on oxygen much of the time. He loved the outdoors, so Michael would invite him over to Neverland. Dad could name all the trees there, and the flowers, but being on oxygen it was hard for him to get around and see them all, it’s such a big place. So Michael got Dad a golf cart with a portable oxygen tank so he could go around and enjoy Neverland. They’d just drive around — Michael Jackson, Marlon Brando, with an oxygen tank in a golf cart.

Some of the best times I spent with Michael were just sitting on a bench at Disneyland’s “Main Street.” We would just sit there and people watch. Sometimes Michael would be in a getup so people wouldn’t recognize him — but they always did. When he was in a bad mood or a little down, I’d just say “Michael, the bench,” and that would bring him out of it. If I knew he wanted to have fun, or just get away, I’d say “let’s go to the bench,” and we were gone.

Of course, Michael Jackson in a public place like Disneyland was bound to draw crowds, and sometimes we would have park security with us. But they weren’t there to protect Michael, they were there to protect the crowds. He was never really concerned about himself, but that someone would get hurt in the crush of people that wanted to see him. People would just go crazy when they saw Michael Jackson.

Michael rarely cried, but I think he’d be in tears over the reaction to his death. He’d be overwhelmed and happy that so much of the love he gave was returned by the people he loved. I think he’d take a deep breath and just say thank you.

The family is still planning the funeral, but I think Michael would want it to be a celebration. He would want everybody there. He loved his fans. I’ve been around plenty of big movie stars, but Michael’s fans are beyond fans. He knew the fans were what made him, and he wouldn’t want to leave anyone out. Everywhere he went, fans would be there. He’d tell me the fans always knew what he was doing. I don’t think anyone has ever had fans like that. So Michael would want a funeral that included his fans and made them happy. He would want it to say: “I’m still with you and we’ll always be together.” He was happy, and he wanted to make everybody around him happy. Finally, he would want love. Above all, Michael was about love.

Timmy84 said:

All Sharpton is a jackass just like Joe Jackson ... this is why I chose not to participate in that million-glove-march at the Apollo it was just another opportunity for AL to go down in history camera whoring. Whilst there are fans in Harlem who were fans of James as well.(I did go to the viewing for JB to pay respect) I understood why Al Sharpton arranged the viewing for James Brown that was indeed his friend and possibly the conduit btw him and MJ. But imo just because you whip out pictures of you with a person at various events doesn't mean you were real tight.And it just seems like Sharpton has placed himself in the position of Jackson family spokesman.(Just an observation) Another reason why I stayed away from the NYC tribute is most likely half of them probably made fun of MJ while he was alive. And as far as James Brown when it happened all of a sudden there was JB music blasting everywhere homemade cd's being sold. short time after passing through Harlem everything was back to normal.

My way of tribute was attending a party ( the past Sat 27)I've been going to the past 10 years the original Michael vs P parties held by DJ Spinna...except this time as a tribute it was Micheal's music only (originally this party was a Motown anniversary party changed due to the sudden loss)the continuation will be Thurs July 2.

Here on the org I never got into the mj threads those threads were for the die-hards to debate over I just felt the man should be left alone and enjoy his music.

One more thing don't support these commemorative issues if you know for certain the same publications made a habit of posting horrible cover issues in the past.

My introduction to music time line age 3-4 was Donna Summer- Saturday Night Fever- Bee-Gees 5yrs to 34 yrs Michael Jackson-Prince-Sade
[Edited 7/1/09 1:36am]

This is so painful. I still can't believe he's gone. I wish he was still here....I just feel so alone in my pain.

utopia7 said:

Yeah, I'm looking at all the publications with the side eye as well. These are the same magazines that have been trashing him for the past 20 years. Fuck outta here with that bullshit...

utopia7 said:

Yeah, I'm looking at all the publications with the side eye as well. These are the same magazines that have been trashing him for the past 20 years. Fuck outta here with that bullshit...

bboy87 said:

Yep I won't be buying it since news of the economy is on the back burner for a second this will just give suffering magazines /Newspapers a like to boost sales. Once again removing the human aspect of whats happened what would be special is to compile all the various photos from all over the world of the people paying their respect.

bboy87 said:

All the instant profiteering is rather disturbing and I refuse to contribute to any of it. No buying his music or dvds...fuck Sony! No buying commemorative magazines and newspapers...fuck the media! No watching MJ specials or his memorial on TV...fuck ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, HLN...and all the rest of 'em!

utopia7 said:

And that's why I respected Al when James died because THEY were close but it don't make sense with Michael. And really this shows you how hypocritical the media is. I will NOT support any commemorative issue that come out. HELL I probably won't even read the more supportive ones (JET and EBONY) in fear I may send them straight to the trashcan in disgust.

My own introduction to music was around 3-4 hearing Motown, Marvin, Stevie, Prince, Whitney and Janet. I didn't get introduced to Michael until 1988 and I faintly don't remember much of it though I do remember digging the videos (it was never the music for some reason). When I was around 4-5, they were actually playing more new jack swing than Michael and I listened to the J5 only vaguely on oldies stations. MJ is part of the musical timeline too but I guess I got him lesser than bboy and LBC did.

Liverpool Street Station, London on the Friday night