graecophilos said:

btw, if any Lennon fans can tell me when he did rhyme the two, please advise.

Yeah, as a solo artist he is overrated. Plastic Ono Band and Imagine are both great albums but otherwise he's very hit and miss. I think that Sometime In New York City, Mind Games and Walls And Bridges are all very inconsistent albums. Obviously after his death Double Fantasy really took off but prior to that the album wasn't performing terribly well. Had he not died I think you could argue that the album would not be held in the high esteem that it is today. I also think that it is likely that as a songwriter he had already peaked and if he had lived he would have released a lot of mediocre albums. By dying young his musical legacy is much more highly regarded than some of his contemporaries who went on to release so-so albums as they aged. I think that you could make the same argument about people like Jimi Hendrix and Kurt Cobain.

rialb said:

"Double Fantasy" was released less than 1 month (ie Nov 17, 1980)before John died (ie Dec 8, 1980), so it's hard to say what would have happened eventually w/ it chartwise if he'd lived. John DID NOT die at the peak of his "musical legacy"....he was just coming back after about 5 years of being a house hubby. This was a comeback album, so it needed some time to warm up.

As for Jimi Hendrix, his great stuff was released well before his death. The comps and stuff were cash ins, but his musical legacy was pretty safe by then. Kobain, AFAIK, isn't regarded in anywhere like the light these other two were.

brooksie said:

Yeah, it's impossible to say how well Double Fantasy would have performed had Lennon not died but I think it's safe to assume that his death boosted sales in the same way that Moody Blue took off after Elvis Presley died.

I did not say that Lennon died at his peak I said when he died he had already peaked.

The point I was trying to make about Jimi and Kurt is that since they died so young they didn't have much of an opportunity to make "bad" albums. I'm sure lots of folks would say yes but would Hendrix at 40 be as "good" as Hendrix at 25? No one can say for sure but I think it's likely that both Jimi and Kurt would have gone on to create less than stellar music.

I would certainly say that Kurt Cobain, much like Jimi Hendrix, is regarded as one of the best musical artists of his generation. Nirvana were arguably just as important to their genre and generation as Hendrix was to his. I think the fact the Hendrix has been worshipped by generations of fans sways critical opinion in his favour but I also think that Cobain's legacy will only grow as the years pass,
[Edited 6/24/09 16:35pm]

"Watching the Wheels"
Love the lyric. The music? 'S'a'right.

"Woman"
Love the music. The lyric?

"God"
Great song. 'Cept for that part about Yoko. She gets way more stick than she deserves, but I wouldn't "believe" in her (if ya know what I'm sayin'). I just believe in me.

As for the rest?

Ace said:

In an early demo he didn't sing the yoko and me part,

Cinnie said:

he never used any of these words in an official record.

But there's a line in "I Found Out": "There you sit with your cock in your hand..." and rhymes it with man.

I think it's a matter of taste. Other than "Imagine", Lennon's career isn't hailed all that much (in comparison to the other Beatles' solo careers, maybe). He wasn't the end all of all but perhaps his death did make people praise him too much becuase of his potential.
I've always loved any of his solo cuts that I've heard but I can imagine some people can't get into everything he's done. I don't know about him being overrated. I don't know that the kids today give too much notice to Lennon's solo work compared to the Beatles or Hendrix or Dylan.

rialb said:

I think "Double Fantasy" still would have performed very well. There was a huge amount of hype for it, and it was generally well-received. "Starting Over" was already a massive hit climbing the charts (it was released in October 1980). BUT I do agree that his death launched it to greater success than it would have otherwise received (which is only natural...)

I compiled my own version combining John's tracks from "Double Fantasy" and the songs later released on "Milk & Honey," and it works very well IMHO as a coherent album.

1. (Just Like) Starting Over
2. I'm Losing You
3. I Don't Wanna Face It
4. Watching The Wheels
5. Borrowed Time
6. Dear Yoko

7. I'm Stepping Out
8. Woman
9. Cleanup Time
10. Nobody Told Me
11. Every Man Has a Woman Who Loves Him
12. Beautiful Boy (Darling Boy)

NoVideo said:

mmmh, I would switch some of the tracks. There is no coherent line in terms of feelings. you mixed up together optimistic with thoughtful and depressive and fun songs. and Everyman (John's version) was considered for the Yoko Becomes 50 tribute album!

I wouldn't call Lennon overrated by any stretch. Plastic Ono Band is excellent (my favorite Beatles solo album after All Things Must Pass) and Imagine isn't far behind. George is definitely my favorite solo, though.

if you take into account what caused him to write God, or Working Class Hero, you'll rethink it's brilliance

PsychedelicGoof said:

Agree