"...Bill Wolfer was a hot young session musician who received an unexpected chance in 1982 to make his own record, and made the most of it.
The Wyoming native's star had been rising in the Soul Music world, and in the prior year he was involved with Stevie Wonder's "Hotter Than July"
and had been responsible for perhaps the year's most memorable 10 seconds : the haunting intro on Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean"..."

http://www.soultracks.com...wolfer.htm



A few tracks with Stevie-sound-a-like Jon Gibson. "Wake Up" is the first wonderful track and my fave !

1 - http://www.imeem.com/tsun...r-wake-up/

2 - http://www.imeem.com/tsun...er-so-shy/





And more of his Wolf-album on the Constellation/MCA-label around 1982 :



3 - http://www.imeem.com/west...r-soaring/

4 - http://www.imeem.com/peop...lin-stone/

5 - http://www.imeem.com/west...amouflage/

6 - http://www.imeem.com/west...ody-knows/

7 - http://www.imeem.com/tsun...-pop-quiz/

Always liked this cat.

Graycap23 said:

Not to doubt this guys playing or anything, but as far as Billie Jean goes, what did this guy do apart from play the keys exactly as Mike had already composed the part? This is the home demo of Billie Jean and the elements are all there.

nd33 said:

Okay, fair enough. I didn't hear that demo since recently. Yeah, the basics were indeed laid down beforehand, and i guess they obviously still wanted to hire him for a particular reason
[Edited 6/5/09 4:37am]

Jackson had only given himself only the single note part to function as the outline for the chords. The musicians involved came up with the rest - according to many reports Jackson did not himself play any isntruments himself at least at this point. The synth chords on "Billie Jean" are comprised of four layers of Yamaha CS80 - basically the most extravagant synthesizer ever - and Jackson's own voice mixed in for a more breath-like effect.

Unless Jackson had a CS80 at his home at the time, which I sort of doubt, those backing tracks were performed by other musicians. You can easily record a demo in the studio and then take it home to work on it more - Jackson probably needs such things anyway so he can come up with the lyrics etc. There's also some funk guitar on the demo, which implies that Michael didn't record it "entirely on his own" at his home.

He produced Vanity's first solo album 'Wild Animal',a project that he probably doesn't want to add to his resume,lol.That album is a mess...but mostly because of Vanity's awful lyrics and vocals throughout.

novabrkr said:

Thanks for the info !

SoulAlive said:

...

Now you're in my collection, !! My favorites from the "Wolf" album are "Wake Up", and "Soaring"


http://www.imeem.com/west...r-soaring/






...
[Edited 6/5/09 5:57am]

paligap said:

and sorry for responding so shamingly late

SoulAlive said:

Hey now, that album is rockin' fun!

novabrkr said:

sounds like another person who doesn't understand that you can compose an entire piece of music even if you don't play an instrument. but no surprise people always try to take mj's credit away
[Edited 6/13/09 21:19pm]

Wrong! MJ didnt "compose" shit.. He stole it!

Hall & Oates - 1981's HIT Song from the album Private Eyes - "I Can't Go For That(No Can Do)".
http://www.youtube.com/wa...GZwPGsfcwM

"I Can't Go for That (No Can Do)" is a 1981 song recorded by Daryl Hall and John Oates.

It was the fourth number-one hit single of their career on the Billboard Hot 100 and the second hit single from their album Private Eyes. It features Charles DeChant on saxophone.

On January 30, 1982, "I Can't Go for That" ended a 10-week run at the top of the Hot 100 by Olivia Newton-John's song, "Physical".

Thanks to heavy airplay on urban-contemporary stations, "I Can't Go for That" also topped the U.S. R&B chart, a rare act for a non-African American act. The song also went to #1 on the Hot Dance Club Play chart for one week in January of 1982.

Beyond being a number one hit in its own right, "I Can't Go for That" continues to bear influence. The song has been covered by a number of recording artists including Brian McKnight, The Nylons, Les Go (with Alfredo Alias), Donny Osmond, East End, Kansascali, and Orson. It was featured in British comedy series The Mighty Boosh (Series 3, Episode 3) where Bob Fossil danced to the song. "I Can't Go for That" was voted #6 on VH1's list of "The 100 Greatest Songs of the '80s".

-Wikipedia

"...On January 30, 1982, "I Can't Go for That" ENDED a 10-WEEK run at the top of the Hot 100 by Olivia Newton-John's song, "Physical"."


The Thriller Album wasn't even released until basically a month away from 1983. The internet is around now, so MJ can't take credit for shit anymore, like he used to in the 1980's. If the internet was around in 1983 - no moonwalk, no taking credit for beats for billie jean,no saying your the first black artist on mtv - when you were really the 4th black artist.. prince having 2 videos out on mtv before he had 1... etc,ect. The snowball effect of Thriller/MJ would have been 75% smaller if you take the moonwalk, first black artist on mtv & billie jean away. There is some there but not as much and the tidewave would have been ((((allot)))) smaller.

cdcgold said:

Thank you for pointing out my lack of capacity to undestand the process of how music is made.

I am referring here to first person accounts of the recording process of Thriller as described by people like Bruce Swedien on his TV interviews and on a recording forum where he used to post details about working with Jackson among other things. But I guess that makes me a "MJ HAT3R"

No, you cannot compose "an entire piece of music" without having the same type of instrumentation as used on the actual piece of music itself. You can't beatbox a funk guitar riff and I have hard time believing anyone can hum an entire chord progression (human voice is not polyphnic for starters, although you can record layers of it - it defintiely would be aseir just to learn to play some chords on the keyboard though). The writing credit for pop songs in the past decades was usually given to the person who came up with the sung melody, therefore it's rather safe to assume that on those songs that cite Jackson as the writer he was responsible for the vocal parts at least. He often also credited himself for "vocal arrangements", meaning the different layers of voices used. Additionally, he might have used his unusual method for "singing" some of the bass lines and some other parts of the instrumentation, but if you think that the vast majority of the instrumental parts of his music wasn't created by other people you're just fooling yourself. He wasn't even present himself on many of the recording sessions when the instrumentation was laid down on his later albums such as "Dangerous".
[Edited 6/14/09 6:59am]

I <3 novabrkr

From what I've read,and to my understanding, "Billie Jean" almost didn't make the cut, and those involved in the music had to put a lot of time in it because the record companies would send it back and say it's crappy, but you know his concerts ain't complete without that song.

ElectricBlue said:

Apart from a ridiculous statement at the start, what is your point?

I don't get people trying to tear musical legends down when you don't even need half an ear to know that they're freakin talented, regardless of whether or not you like their material...

novabrkr said:

Yes you can compose an entire song without playing an instrument. Many songwriters compose pieces entirely in their head. I do it myself sometimes, so I don't see that being much of a challenge at all to a relative genius such as MJ. It may not be possible to beat box a funk guitar riff, but if you're experienced it's not that hard to relay what you have in your head to a guitarist, even if you don't know the name of the chord. I won't comment one way or another with regards to who came up with what parts on specific MJ songs. The collaboration process can be an amazing thing, I myself love the interaction.

One thing is for certain, MJ has been involved in many, many great compositions for over 30 years and that, my friends, is no fluke.

nd33 said:

I don't think anyone is disagreeing on that, at least I am not. One reason why the classic Michael Jackson records are as good as they are is exactly because he has used his own songwriting skills together with talented musicians. They've all done their respective parts on them.

But Jackson's involvement shouldn't be used for discrediting someone like Wolfer's involvement. Jackson can be said to have a rather unique talent in regards with how he wrote songs - or at least parts of them - but that doesn't outdo the fact that these musicians had to then attempt to transform those rather crude cue tracks and plain verbal instructions into proper instrumentation. When the fans hear some of the clips on youtube where Jackson is beatboxing and singing some parts of the melodies, they might end up thinking there existing somekind of one-to-one correspondence between the demos and the finished product. No there's been a whole lot more work by others involved.

Here are the quotes by B.Wolfer I was referring to:
"We started Billie Jean by Michael singing the top three notes of the opening chords, and we spent a long time trying to find the right harmony. As you know, there are a million ways you can harmonize three moving notes, and I tried about every one, but Michael had a clear sound in his head that he wanted, not only the harmony, but the synth sound itself. It was a patch he had heard me fooling around with when we were on the '81 tour, and recreating it wasn't easy either, because he could only try to describe it to me." (he had been the tour keyboardist for The Jacksons previously).

"So, the artistic freedom in this case was always Michael's. We were just there to get the sound out of his head and onto tape. It wasn't easy for him, because he didn't play an instrument. He could just sing the parts, and try to describe the sound he wanted. But he was always patient, and we worked as though we had all the time in the world."

So according to these clips he "had an idea" of how the chords should go. So I was sort of wrong about that part, but the same doesn't necessarily apply to all of his songs.

It sounds like a rather cumbersome way to work anyway. It definitely would have been a whole lot easier had he actually bothered to learn some basic chords on a keyboard. And yes, I do think Michael Jackson is a musical genius and a natural musical talent otherwise.

I recognize the talent in translating sung parts into actual playable chords. That doesn't necessarily dismiss the composing talent of the sung parts.

ElectricBlue said:

" i think you crazzzyyyyy"

novabrkr said:

if you knew anything you would know that mj did take piano lessons as a kid and even though he might not be mozart. let me tell you something if you can learn the notes for the piano you know the notes for all treble cleft instruments because they are all the same. thats why music composer don't have to be able to play all the instruments the write for or any instruments at all. Playing is just that knowing the figurings. its the notes and knowing what the notes sound like that matter. For instance i played the trumpet in school and because i learned the notes for the trumpet i knew the notes for the clarinet as well. i can't play a clarinet but i know the note and i kknow what a b flat on the clarinet sounds like. so because of that i could compose a piece of music on the clarinet even though i can't play one. same with the piano i can't play the piano but i can read piano music and i know what it should sound like.


oh and i have heard some of mj's ruff demos and the guitar parts sound just like a guitar so yes a think he could compose a funk guitar riff using his mouth.

novabrkr said:

"We started Billie Jean by Michael singing the top three notes of the opening chords, and we spent a long time trying to find the right harmony. As you know, there are a million ways you can harmonize three moving notes, and I tried about every one, but Michael had a clear sound in his head that he wanted, not only the harmony, but the synth sound itself. It was a patch he had heard me fooling around with when we were on the '81 tour, and recreating it wasn't easy either, because he could only try to describe it to me." (he had been the tour keyboardist for The Jacksons previously).

why only post the part that suits your opinion. this part of the quotes tells me he knew exactly what he wanted and it was not just an idea.


Have you ever seen the movie amadeus abut mozart. if you haven't go on youtube and watch that scene where mozart is sick and has to sing to serilli or whatever his name is. so he could write his music mozart heard his music in his head and in that scene he had to sing and make noises with his mouth to tell the other guy what he wanted. well that is probably how mj composes his music, and composing music that way is no less impressive then writing it down yourself. just cause someone happens to do it that way doesn't mean they are not the real songwriter and it doesn't mean they should be given less credit cause they wrote the song not the muscians
[Edited 6/14/09 9:52am]

watch the first video from 5:40

Jesus, cdcgold, we'll never rock MJ's pedestal again

As Bill Wolfer quite clearly said, Michael cannot play an instrument. More recently Wil.i.am's musical partner who worked in the studio with Michael in 2006 said the exact same thing. Michael cannot play an instrument. That doesn't change the fact that he's musically gifted, but fans should not make inflated claims which they can't back up.

According to Wolfer's own words Jackson did not play any instruments himself at least during the Thriller sessions, so it's not something that I came up with myself.

cdcgold said:

There's no need to state such obvious things. Besides, that's not quite how music that's strongly based on rhythmic playing works. Jackson does not claim himself that he did everything on his records himself, so I don't see the point of these comments of yours. Most of his later songs have shared writing credits anyway.



I clearly included that part too there as well and later commented on it myself as well, so how can you claim that I am posting parts that only "suit my opinion"?

The three chords there are very basic chords - first inversions of them to be exact - so I don't think it actually requires too much to think of some basic tonalities in your head as they tend to come quite naturally to most people who have been subjected to pop music. Again if he knew how to play an instrument, he would have had no trouble to play such simple things on it without having to "instruct others". As for the sound used itself, it had already been created by Wolfer himself earlier on (therefore, primarily his creation and jackson's production decision). Let me just tell you, creating sounds on a CS80 is not a small task. You just don't select one of the several hundred ready-made patches as on current digital boards.



Well, that I'd definitely like to hear too. Can you post for example a youtube link?

This is conversation is bordering on ridiculous, by the way. You don't need to defend the possibility of someone not doing everything on their records when the credits on the albums clearly state that he did not do everything on them either. There's not a huge disagreement here involveld - again, what are you arguing for?

i never said he does EVERYTHING on his records the only thing i said was he probably at least has basic knowlege of musical notes, even if he can't play instrument. If you can just learn the notes to one instrument you know the notes to several. second of all I am defending the thought alot of people have on here that if a person doesn't play every instrument on their song that they didn't write it. You can twist it around all you want. the fact is the songs mj's credited for HE wrote them. he came up with the song in HIS head. even if he had to communicate to a muscian what he wanted, it does not change the fact that HE already had the song in HIS head the way he wanted it. The muscian did not write it. they simply translated it at the most. alot of you people on here are so caught on playing instruments that you don't realize you don't have to play an instrument to write music. does it help? yes. is it required ? no. some people like michael can compose music in their heads the don't need to be at a keyboard or on a guitar. they just here it and just because they have to make somebody understand what they want played does not take their credit away. the musicians who played did not write the song they simply played the song.