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PrintableTimmy84 said: brooksie said: What? Punk wasn't heavily underground in the 80s. It played on alternative/college FM radio. Punk wasn't mainstream thebut (but it never was), but it was not difficult to find on the dial. Between record stores and non pop formatted radio stations you could find alots of anything that was US/UK based. World music, OTOH, may have been difficult to find, depending on where you were. But there was only a section of punk artists out there and new wave artists that were incorrectly identified as punk. Yo Paisley, hook a brotha up on some music I can find and listen to online. I've been looking to make a modern new wave/punk rock mixtape. I'm trying to diversify my musical portfolio.  I Love me some Val And The Bitches the org's "Manki" is founder of the group. They are based in Netherlands / or UK I believe www.myspace.com/valandthebitches Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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Timmy84 said: brooksie said: What? Punk wasn't heavily underground in the 80s. It played on alternative/college FM radio. Punk wasn't mainstream thebut (but it never was), but it was not difficult to find on the dial. Between record stores and non pop formatted radio stations you could find alots of anything that was US/UK based. World music, OTOH, may have been difficult to find, depending on where you were. But there was only a section of punk artists out there and new wave artists that were incorrectly identified as punk. Yo Paisley, hook a brotha up on some music I can find and listen to online. I've been looking to make a modern new wave/punk rock mixtape. I'm trying to diversify my musical portfolio. People back then knew the diff between the two. In the mid-late 80s there were plenty of both...and they got airplay. If you want non Prince, why not Dylan?!  | |
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paisleypark4 said: Timmy84 said: But there was only a section of punk artists out there and new wave artists that were incorrectly identified as punk. Yo Paisley, hook a brotha up on some music I can find and listen to online. I've been looking to make a modern new wave/punk rock mixtape. I'm trying to diversify my musical portfolio. I Love me some Val And The Bitches the org's "Manki" is founder of the group. They are based in Netherlands / or UK I believe www.myspace.com/valandthebitches Thanx.  | |
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brooksie said: Timmy84 said: But there was only a section of punk artists out there and new wave artists that were incorrectly identified as punk. Yo Paisley, hook a brotha up on some music I can find and listen to online. I've been looking to make a modern new wave/punk rock mixtape. I'm trying to diversify my musical portfolio. People back then knew the diff between the two. In the mid-late 80s there were plenty of both...and they got airplay. If you want non Prince, why not Dylan?! Except the media. Music lovers knew which was which if that's what you mean. Why would I want new Dylan? I'll just find his older shit later.
In a few weeks, I should have a good diverse collection. I'm too much of a R&B/funk head but I've always admired rock music like punk and new wave too. And '60s and '70s rock. But I wouldn't mind millennium rock/funk. | |
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Timmy84 said: brooksie said: People back then knew the diff between the two. In the mid-late 80s there were plenty of both...and they got airplay. If you want non Prince, why not Dylan?! Except the media. Music lovers knew which was which if that's what you mean. Why would I want new Dylan? I'll just find his older shit later.
In a few weeks, I should have a good diverse collection. I'm too much of a R&B/funk head but I've always admired rock music like punk and new wave too. And '60s and '70s rock. But I wouldn't mind millennium rock/funk. Well why wouldn't you? The guy is STILL kicks ass. That was my non PC point earlier...we ask 'what happened to' whatever, but don't consider the obvious...that people stopped listening at some point. Of course Dylan's fans are right w/ him, but why limit yourself to his earlier eras OR obscure stuff? As for "punk" the label meant so many things. In the NYC scene alone, groups we may not think of punk were labeled as such and so forth. Example, do you consider Iggy Pop "punk", Lou Reed? They were considered so by some back then. The labels were about marketing and attempts to describe as opposed to the actual sound. If you ask me, the REAL punks of the NYC era were the so called "no wave" artists that came around 78. | |
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brooksie said: Timmy84 said: Except the media. Music lovers knew which was which if that's what you mean. Why would I want new Dylan? I'll just find his older shit later.
In a few weeks, I should have a good diverse collection. I'm too much of a R&B/funk head but I've always admired rock music like punk and new wave too. And '60s and '70s rock. But I wouldn't mind millennium rock/funk. Well why wouldn't you? The guy is STILL kicks ass. That was my non PC point earlier...we ask 'what happened to' whatever, but don't consider the obvious...that people stopped listening at some point. Of course Dylan's fans are right w/ him, but why limit yourself to his earlier eras OR obscure stuff? As for "punk" the label meant so many things. In the NYC scene alone, groups we may not think of punk were labeled as such and so forth. Example, do you consider Iggy Pop "punk", Lou Reed? They were considered so by some back then. The labels were about marketing and attempts to describe as opposed to the actual sound. If you ask me, the REAL punks of the NYC era were the so called "no wave" artists that came around 78. No I consider Iggy & Lou rockers. | |
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That's just it, plenty of rockers who didn't fit a set image ended up labeled as "punk", for however brief a time.
If you're interested in 60-70s rock, I'd suggest looking at some of the "mod" family of groups...The Who, Small Faces, Kinks, The ArtWoods (ie Ronnie's older brother), Reg King, and the later revival stuff like from The Jam and Style Council. (FYI...The Jam were originally lumped in w/ London punk, but that hardly fits them) There's also the ska scene, both Jamaican and UK. I'm also big on Manchester punk....The Buzzcocks and a seriously obscure cat called John Cooper Clarke. Clarke was originally labeled punk, but he's more like a dub poet. In the US, punk got better IMHO when it left NYC for the hinterlands. Check the scenes that happened in DC and LA, for starters. | |
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brooksie said: That's just it, plenty of rockers who didn't fit a set image ended up labeled as "punk", for however brief a time.
If you're interested in 60-70s rock, I'd suggest looking at some of the "mod" family of groups...The Who, Small Faces, Kinks, The ArtWoods (ie Ronnie's older brother), Reg King, and the later revival stuff like from The Jam and Style Council. (FYI...The Jam were originally lumped in w/ London punk, but that hardly fits them) There's also the ska scene, both Jamaican and UK. I'm also big on Manchester punk....The Buzzcocks and a seriously obscure cat called John Cooper Clarke. Clarke was originally labeled punk, but he's more like a dub poet. In the US, punk got better IMHO when it left NYC for the hinterlands. Check the scenes that happened in DC and LA, for starters. I'll definitely check them out. Bboy got me to listen to some of the Style Council. I've heard of the Jam but I never listen to what they did. I know some of the Who, Small Faces and Kinks recordings tho.  | |
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Timmy84 said: brooksie said: That's just it, plenty of rockers who didn't fit a set image ended up labeled as "punk", for however brief a time.
If you're interested in 60-70s rock, I'd suggest looking at some of the "mod" family of groups...The Who, Small Faces, Kinks, The ArtWoods (ie Ronnie's older brother), Reg King, and the later revival stuff like from The Jam and Style Council. (FYI...The Jam were originally lumped in w/ London punk, but that hardly fits them) There's also the ska scene, both Jamaican and UK. I'm also big on Manchester punk....The Buzzcocks and a seriously obscure cat called John Cooper Clarke. Clarke was originally labeled punk, but he's more like a dub poet. In the US, punk got better IMHO when it left NYC for the hinterlands. Check the scenes that happened in DC and LA, for starters. I'll definitely check them out. Bboy got me to listen to some of the Style Council. I've heard of the Jam but I never listen to what they did. I know some of the Who, Small Faces and Kinks recordings tho. Ya know Style Coulcil and The Jam are both Paul Weller, right? Alot of the mod groups did their take on rnb as opposed to straight out rock...at least that was their goal. | |
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brooksie said: Timmy84 said: I'll definitely check them out. Bboy got me to listen to some of the Style Council. I've heard of the Jam but I never listen to what they did. I know some of the Who, Small Faces and Kinks recordings tho. Ya know Style Coulcil and The Jam are both Paul Weller, right? Alot of the mod groups did their take on rnb as opposed to straight out rock...at least that was their goal. Yep. | |
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Since you're expanding your sounds, you might like "lover's rock" because it's still quite rnb/soul-ish but has a reggae-soft rock approach. A great lover's rock starting point artist is Maxi Priest. This was mostly a UK thing. | |
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brooksie said: Since you're expanding your sounds, you might like "lover's rock" because it's still quite rnb/soul-ish but has a reggae-soft rock approach. A great lover's rock starting point artist is Maxi Priest. This was mostly a UK thing.
Other artists I should look into BESIDES Maxi? | |
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I'm not gonna give 'em all to you. Since you guys wanna search, I'll let you have at it. I won't take away your fun.
Anyway, there's Barrington Levy, Horace Andy, and my favs Gregory Isaacs and Alton Ellis. You might wanna check out Maxi's uncle, the great Jacob Miller...one of the most unique voices ever. | |
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brooksie said: I'm not gonna give 'em all to you. Since you guys wanna search, I'll let you have at it.
I won't take away your fun.
Anyway, there's Barrington Levy, Horace Andy, and my favs Gregory Isaacs and Alton Ellis. You might wanna check out Maxi's uncle, the great Jacob Miller...one of the most unique voices ever. I know about Barrington, lol. | |
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Timmy84 said: brooksie said: I'm not gonna give 'em all to you. Since you guys wanna search, I'll let you have at it.
I won't take away your fun.
Anyway, there's Barrington Levy, Horace Andy, and my favs Gregory Isaacs and Alton Ellis. You might wanna check out Maxi's uncle, the great Jacob Miller...one of the most unique voices ever. I know about Barrington, lol. Good. | |
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The music back then had real meaning and made you think, laugh, smile, dance or cry. The R&B was also very versatile also. Stevie, Funkadelic, George Benson, Cameo and Diana Ross could have their songs played one right after the other and they all sounded different.
They also played REAL INSTRUMENTS. Seeing EWF, The Commodores, The Isleys, and The Time lay it down was unreal. Music is really missing that today. | |
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elem55 said: Was there somthing in the water, The sheer originality of Black groups was staggering.
To have so many groups that had their own sound and were easily identifiable is just crazy when compared to artists today. And the quality of the music was at such a high standard. Think about just these few artists or groups out at the same time (tip of the iceberg by the way). EWF Blue Magic Barkays Cameo Stylistics Confunkshun BT express Brass Construction Mass Production O'Bryan Shalamar Commodores Marvin Gaye Curtis Mayfield Aretha Franklin Gladys Knight Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes The Spinners The Dramatics The Main Ingredient Prince Rick James Michael Jackson I could go on all day with this list, but look at how original this tiny list is. It is sad to say but I dont think you will ever see an explosion of raw talent in music especially Black music like you did in the 70's and 80's. It's over, dead, stick a fork in it. If you grew up on it consider yourself blessed if you didn't you still got youtube. Amen to that, brother. I was born in 1961, so I grew up on all the good shit(Motown, Stax/Atlantic, Philly Int'l., etc.). I feel for these young folks today. |
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Don't feel for ME. You're mistaken if you think ALL of us are "sucked into it". There's still great new music. Plus there was MORE folks by black artists that haven't been highlighted that did enough for MUSIC as the ones highlighted. | |
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Timmy84 said: Don't feel for ME. You're mistaken if you think ALL of us are "sucked into it". There's still great new music. Plus there was MORE folks by black artists that haven't been highlighted that did enough for MUSIC as the ones highlighted.
That's what they're saying, IMHO....the artists making great music are not apart of the mainstream anymore. They were at one time. I got into other music because rnb was so prominent and I got sick of it, but it was all around and at the highest quality. Now you have to search for average quality stuff. | |
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brooksie said: Timmy84 said: Don't feel for ME. You're mistaken if you think ALL of us are "sucked into it". There's still great new music. Plus there was MORE folks by black artists that haven't been highlighted that did enough for MUSIC as the ones highlighted.
That's what they're saying, IMHO....the artists making great music are not apart of the mainstream anymore. They were at one time. I got into other music because rnb was so prominent and I got sick of it, but it was all around and at the highest quality. Now you have to search for average quality stuff. And to that I say FUCK THE MAINSTREAM!  | |
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Timmy84 said: brooksie said: That's what they're saying, IMHO....the artists making great music are not apart of the mainstream anymore. They were at one time. I got into other music because rnb was so prominent and I got sick of it, but it was all around and at the highest quality. Now you have to search for average quality stuff. And to that I say FUCK THE MAINSTREAM! Easy for you to say as the listener, but what of the artists? If you're too old and/or not hip hop, how do you connect w/ new audiences? Relatively few people are trawling the 'net to find obscure groups, most find their music of radio (and like myself) soundtracks. Soundtracks rarely use rnb unless it's for an "urban" audience, so lack of radio play is problematic. | |
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Music on the radio these days is pretty much shit! I also agree, the best music today, is not mainstream.
The biggest sounds in music came from local scenes, got picked up by labels and taken to the masses via radio & tours. Today, bands can become big by word- internet, playing showcases such as fests, and marketing themselves. Of course the labels still pick up on some of it, but there is now so much press & outlets, people don't need the radio or labels to have a big following. Corporations & Labels still can get people out there to the masses, and obviously can fund a band geting out there, but it is clear, radio & the major labels, are afraid- afraid to put anything different out there. | |
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brooksie said: Timmy84 said: And to that I say FUCK THE MAINSTREAM! Easy for you to say as the listener, but what of the artists? If you're too old and/or not hip hop, how do you connect w/ new audiences? Relatively few people are trawling the 'net to find obscure groups, most find their music of radio (and like myself) soundtracks. Soundtracks rarely use rnb unless it's for an "urban" audience, so lack of radio play is problematic. I still hold my ground, brook. | |
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micknme said: Music on the radio these days is pretty much shit! I also agree, the best music today, is not mainstream.
The biggest sounds in music came from local scenes, got picked up by labels and taken to the masses via radio & tours. Today, bands can become big by word- internet, playing showcases such as fests, and marketing themselves. Of course the labels still pick up on some of it, but there is now so much press & outlets, people don't need the radio or labels to have a big following. Corporations & Labels still can get people out there to the masses, and obviously can fund a band geting out there, but it is clear, radio & the major labels, are afraid- afraid to put anything different out there. While they don't even realize that they're alienating real music lovers. That's why I protest a lot of new stuff the mainstream posts. Usually there'll be a random mention of something new but is never promoted except on Rolling Tiger Beat, er, Rolling Stone. | |
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Timmy84 said: micknme said: Music on the radio these days is pretty much shit! I also agree, the best music today, is not mainstream.
The biggest sounds in music came from local scenes, got picked up by labels and taken to the masses via radio & tours. Today, bands can become big by word- internet, playing showcases such as fests, and marketing themselves. Of course the labels still pick up on some of it, but there is now so much press & outlets, people don't need the radio or labels to have a big following. Corporations & Labels still can get people out there to the masses, and obviously can fund a band geting out there, but it is clear, radio & the major labels, are afraid- afraid to put anything different out there. While they don't even realize that they're alienating real music lovers. That's why I protest a lot of new stuff the mainstream posts. Usually there'll be a random mention of something new but is never promoted except on Rolling Tiger Beat, er, Rolling Stone. I think they're alienating "older" music lovers..which is not an age thing, but more of a taste thing. I'm seeing young kids (teens...maybe 15 or so) vibing on older artists and sounds like Tom Waits and Leonard Cohen because they feel their choices are so limited in terms of a more mature and complex sound. When they go searching, many times it's to the older (still performing) act that can't get any love. It's sad because it PROVES these acts can attract young folks if they were given a chance. It's the "given a chance" part that's bugging me. I'm not even that old but I'm amazed to see how things have gotten so NOT diverse in so many ways. Even at the height of the video age, older, fat, not pretty, etc...acts still got a chance to be heard. | |
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elem55 said: Was there somthing in the water, The sheer originality of Black groups was staggering.
To have so many groups that had their own sound and were easily identifiable is just crazy when compared to artists today. And the quality of the music was at such a high standard. Think about just these few artists or groups out at the same time (tip of the iceberg by the way). EWF Blue Magic Barkays Cameo Stylistics Confunkshun BT express Brass Construction Mass Production O'Bryan Shalamar Commodores Marvin Gaye Curtis Mayfield Aretha Franklin Gladys Knight Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes The Spinners The Dramatics The Main Ingredient Prince Rick James Michael Jackson I could go on all day with this list, but look at how original this tiny list is. It is sad to say but I dont think you will ever see an explosion of raw talent in music especially Black music like you did in the 70's and 80's. It's over, dead, stick a fork in it. If you grew up on it consider yourself blessed if you didn't you still got youtube. Ok let me throw something out there. Look at the original list of artist's that I posted above. Does anybody out there make music anywhere near the caliber and quality of any one on this list? Is there anybody close to the EWF standard, they dont have to be a famous group. Are there any new groups that can match Blue Magic or the Stylistics as far as romantic music. Anybody as downright and consistantly funky as the Barkays or Cameo or Confunkshun? Anybody that can fill Thom Bells or Gamble and Huffs shoes. I have not heard anyone new that has risen to that standard. If you know any groups that are able to carry that flag please let me know. I want to support groups that respect the art of music. But maybe Im asking to much because even those groups on the list are not able to match themselves in their prime. We gonna come on with the come on, gonna get down with the get down! | |
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[quote] brooksie said: paisleypark4 said: lets not start blaming the races of who destroyed the r&b industry....
I find myself always having to search for good r&b music. Growing up in the late 80's and 90's I always had my hand at the weka sto crates digging..and now I'm still having to find funk that I missed on the net and funk that's coming out today. Its a NEVERENDING search!  LOL...I told you I wasn't gonna be PC, but the point of it is that you HAVE to SEARCH whereas in the past you didn't. Ignoring the reasons why doesn't make much sense. It is what it is.This is what makes me furious. Why the hell should I have to search for it. And once I find it, then what? Since it's not in the mainstream, that means I'm gonna listen to it all by my damn self. Hell naw, fuck that. Good music needs to be in the mainstream so it will be played in clubs and other people will like it also. That way, if I don't get lucky and bring someone home for the night, at least I was entertained in the club and actually had a chance to shake some ass rather than being bored out of my damn skull and the evening wouldn't be a total waste. I may be 41 but dammitt, I'm gay and don't have no wife and kids and don't want none. A lot of straight people my age may be happy to just sit in the background, watch their kids live their lives, and go in a back room and listen to their own type of music in private. Well dammitt, I'm a whore and us whores have to go out to find dick. And when I'm on the prowl, I want to be entertained, not bored. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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brooksie said: Timmy84 said: I agree. I used to think like some other people here but I'm convinced the good music is still out there. Like you said you gotta search for it. Sorry Timmy, but you don't have to SEARCH for rock, now do you? You can say that again! Talk about labels having a double standard. If you flip through the radio stations, you'll find some kind of new rock. It may be a bunch of loud grinding guitars with a bunch of yelling on top of it but it's still rock and it's still on the radio. Try looking for some new funk of any kind on the radio. You ain't gonna find it. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: LOL...I told you I wasn't gonna be PC, but the point of it is that you HAVE to SEARCH whereas in the past you didn't. Ignoring the reasons why doesn't make much sense. It is what it is.This is what makes me furious. Why the hell should I have to search for it. And once I find it, then what? Since it's not in the mainstream, that means I'm gonna listen to it all by my damn self. Hell naw, fuck that. Good music needs to be in the mainstream so it will be played in clubs and other people will like it also. That way, if I don't get lucky and bring someone home for the night, at least I was entertained in the club and actually had a chance to shake some ass rather than being bored out of my damn skull and the evening wouldn't be a total waste. I may be 41 but dammitt, I'm gay and don't have no wife and kids and don't want none. A lot of straight people my age may be happy to just sit in the background, watch their kids live their lives, and go in a back room and listen to their own type of music in private. Well dammitt, I'm a whore and us whores have to go out to find dick. And when I'm on the prowl, I want to be entertained, not bored. 
I got used to young people dissing me liking old school music. However I have taught them and trained them children to appreciate it. The thing is I'm not only finding new funk music...I am finding OLD music too to this day. I just started hearing people like Xavion and Shuggie Otis this year...there too much old school for me not to look just as much as new funk like Dap Kings and Bastian. I can give a cotton picking if the clubs don't play it anymore..as long as they still play some uptempo songs like Beyonce, Missy etc. (as they do in Minneapolis / I leave when the mid-tempo hip hop stuff come on). If I never searched for better music in the world I would have became a brainwashed tool like most of the kids today...and hell if I sit and listen to old music all day in the basement acting as if the world ended like some ol' hag. Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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elem55 said: Was there somthing in the water, The sheer originality of Black groups was staggering.
To have so many groups that had their own sound and were easily identifiable is just crazy when compared to artists today. And the quality of the music was at such a high standard. Think about just these few artists or groups out at the same time (tip of the iceberg by the way). EWF Blue Magic Barkays Cameo Stylistics Confunkshun BT express Brass Construction Mass Production O'Bryan Shalamar Commodores Marvin Gaye Curtis Mayfield Aretha Franklin Gladys Knight Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes The Spinners The Dramatics The Main Ingredient Prince Rick James Michael Jackson I could go on all day with this list, but look at how original this tiny list is. It is sad to say but I dont think you will ever see an explosion of raw talent in music especially Black music like you did in the 70's and 80's. It's over, dead, stick a fork in it. If you grew up on it consider yourself blessed if you didn't you still got youtube. Lawd, that list is amazing and just half of what was out there at that time. I miss real music so bad. I stopped listening to the radio for quite sometime until I discovered that 98.7kissfm in NYC plays many of those groups songs on the weekend - not sure if it's just on Saturday or Sunday, but in any case, they play music from that era. It's a breath of fresh air to know I can actually turn on the radio and here what used to be music. You could add: The Brothers Johnson The Delfonics (late 60s+) The Stylistics (late 60s+) Lakeside to that list as well. [Edited 6/23/09 9:37am] | |
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