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PrintableTimmy84 said: meow85 said: I think it comes down to two factors:
The first being that TV was simply not the medium then it grew to be, and the second being the Brown was black and few black artists got the exposure or support they deserved. Example: Despite the Shirelles' impressive popularity, they weren't allowed to perform on "Ed Sullivan", the Supremes luckily got through in '64.  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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Timmy84 said: meow85 said: I think it comes down to two factors:
The first being that TV was simply not the medium then it grew to be, and the second being the Brown was black and few black artists got the exposure or support they deserved. Example: Despite the Shirelles' impressive popularity, they weren't allowed to perform on "Ed Sullivan", the Supremes luckily got through in '64. This is the show that made The Stones sing "Lets Spend TIME together" and demanded The Doors delete the "higher" reference AFTER The Beatles hit.  IOW, this show was NOT hip. It was the sounds the rockers had....Ella Fitzgerald, Eartha Kitt, and the like played Sullivan in the 50s. Rock n roll was quite iffy until the Beatles really blew it out the water. That show in particular leaned towards the general audiences-standards people. The Beatles helped open up tv for 60s rockers and people bringing harder sounds than Frank Sinatra.[Edited 6/19/09 15:43pm] | |
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brooksie said: Timmy84 said: Example: Despite the Shirelles' impressive popularity, they weren't allowed to perform on "Ed Sullivan", the Supremes luckily got through in '64. This is the show that made The Stones sing "Lets Spend TIME together" and demanded The Doors delete the "higher" reference AFTER The Beatles hit. IOW, this show was NOT hip. It was the sounds the rockers had....Ella Fitzgerald, Eartha Kitt, and the like played Sullivan in the 50s. Rock n roll was quite iffy until the Beatles really blew it out the water. That show in particular leaned towards the general audiences-standards people. The Beatles helped open up tv for 60s rockers and people bringing harder sounds than Frank Sinatra.
[Edited 6/19/09 15:43pm] The point was black American R&B and rock singers found it difficult to get on Sullivan. After Bo Diddley became the first in 1955, only Elvis got some Sullivan coverage, and it wasn't until 1964 when the Beatles and the Supremes came through. Both acts broke a way for rock groups and soul acts to get on Ed Sullivan. You dare wouldn't see Tina Turner on Sullivan in 1960 because she was too raunchy for television. By 1970, things changed a bit and she was invited to be on there. It led to her and Ike's brief mainstream breakthrough in America. | |
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Timmy84 said: brooksie said: This is the show that made The Stones sing "Lets Spend TIME together" and demanded The Doors delete the "higher" reference AFTER The Beatles hit. IOW, this show was NOT hip. It was the sounds the rockers had....Ella Fitzgerald, Eartha Kitt, and the like played Sullivan in the 50s. Rock n roll was quite iffy until the Beatles really blew it out the water. That show in particular leaned towards the general audiences-standards people. The Beatles helped open up tv for 60s rockers and people bringing harder sounds than Frank Sinatra.
[Edited 6/19/09 15:43pm] The point was black American R&B and rock singers found it difficult to get on Sullivan. After Bo Diddley became the first in 1955, only Elvis got some Sullivan coverage, and it wasn't until 1964 when the Beatles and the Supremes came through. Both acts broke a way for rock groups and soul acts to get on Ed Sullivan. You dare wouldn't see Tina Turner on Sullivan in 1960 because she was too raunchy for television. By 1970, things changed a bit and she was invited to be on there. It led to her and Ike's brief mainstream breakthrough in America. That's what I've been saying...in the early 60s, when Sullivan was the only real game in town, rock acts were rarely seen...no matter the race, but once shows like Hulabaloo, Shindig, and The Smothers Brothers blew up, Ed had to fit in or fuck off. There's no coinkydink that Shindig premieres in 64 and Sullivan starts opening his show to rock more that year. Ironically, it was Banstand that made the Supremes hot in 64 and Sullivan cashed in. | |
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I'm a big fan of The Who. When they 1st came here, they got little tv coverage cuz they came even harder than The Stones. I know they did Shindig back in 65 or so, but their real tv breakthru came w/ The Smothers Brothers in 67. American tv liked bloodless non threatening acts!  | |
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brooksie said: Timmy84 said: The point was black American R&B and rock singers found it difficult to get on Sullivan. After Bo Diddley became the first in 1955, only Elvis got some Sullivan coverage, and it wasn't until 1964 when the Beatles and the Supremes came through. Both acts broke a way for rock groups and soul acts to get on Ed Sullivan. You dare wouldn't see Tina Turner on Sullivan in 1960 because she was too raunchy for television. By 1970, things changed a bit and she was invited to be on there. It led to her and Ike's brief mainstream breakthrough in America. That's what I've been saying...in the early 60s, when Sullivan was the only real game in town, rock acts were rarely seen...no matter the race, but once shows like Hulabaloo, Shindig, and The Smothers Brothers blew up, Ed had to fit in or fuck off. There's no coinkydink that Shindig premieres in 64 and Sullivan starts opening his show to rock more that year. Ironically, it was Banstand that made the Supremes hot in 64 and Sullivan cashed in. Bandstand was the shit for soul acts back then. So was Shindig and Hullaballoo, you saw more of their true selves on those shows than you did on Sullivan. Seeing James Brown on Sullivan was something else. Because even in that show, his SOUL shined through, he didn't pretend to smile or nothing, he had his band ready and he took it home. His performance of "Prisoner of Love" on the show was MESMERIZING!  | |
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Timmy84 said: brooksie said: This is the show that made The Stones sing "Lets Spend TIME together" and demanded The Doors delete the "higher" reference AFTER The Beatles hit. IOW, this show was NOT hip. It was the sounds the rockers had....Ella Fitzgerald, Eartha Kitt, and the like played Sullivan in the 50s. Rock n roll was quite iffy until the Beatles really blew it out the water. That show in particular leaned towards the general audiences-standards people. The Beatles helped open up tv for 60s rockers and people bringing harder sounds than Frank Sinatra.
[Edited 6/19/09 15:43pm] The point was black American R&B and rock singers found it difficult to get on Sullivan. After Bo Diddley became the first in 1955, only Elvis got some Sullivan coverage, and it wasn't until 1964 when the Beatles and the Supremes came through. Both acts broke a way for rock groups and soul acts to get on Ed Sullivan. You dare wouldn't see Tina Turner on Sullivan in 1960 because she was too raunchy for television. By 1970, things changed a bit and she was invited to be on there. It led to her and Ike's brief mainstream breakthrough in America. Ed Sullivan was a tyrant and a jerk, truth be told. Sullivan didn't want Elvis on his show. Meow was on point for why Black's weren't seen on TV in the 50's and 60's. Many would like to forget at ever junction of our musical culture Gospel, Jazz, R&B, and Rock&Roll was perceived by many white Americans as "Ni&&er" music. Lets just tell the truth and shame the devil. 
Though as racist and as segregated as Chicago was (and still is in many aspects), African-American musical culture (Gospel and Blues) was supported and aired in ABC and CBS affiliates on a regular bases from about the mid 60's onward. On Sundays from 5:30 am to around 1:00 pm ABC, CBS, and local Chicago Station, WGN (Channel 9 which in some parts of the country is a super station on cable now) all had Gospel programming and the who's who of Gospel music from around the country. | |
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TD3 said: Timmy84 said: The point was black American R&B and rock singers found it difficult to get on Sullivan. After Bo Diddley became the first in 1955, only Elvis got some Sullivan coverage, and it wasn't until 1964 when the Beatles and the Supremes came through. Both acts broke a way for rock groups and soul acts to get on Ed Sullivan. You dare wouldn't see Tina Turner on Sullivan in 1960 because she was too raunchy for television. By 1970, things changed a bit and she was invited to be on there. It led to her and Ike's brief mainstream breakthrough in America. Ed Sullivan was a tyrant and a jerk, truth be told. Sullivan didn't want Elvis on his show. Meow was on point for why Black's weren't seen on TV in the 50's and 60's. Many would like to forget at ever junction of our musical culture Gospel, Jazz, R&B, and Rock&Roll was perceived by many white Americans as "Ni&&er" music. Lets just tell the truth and shame the devil.
Though as racist and as segregated as Chicago was (and still is in many aspects), African-American musical culture (Gospel and Blues) was supported and aired in ABC and CBS affiliates on a regular bases from about the mid 60's onward. On Sundays from 5:30 am to around 1:00 pm ABC, CBS, and local Chicago Station, WGN (Channel 9 which in some parts of the country is a super station on cable now) all had Gospel programming and the who's who of Gospel music from around the country. Whaddya mean WAS?  That's the bulk of the problem when we discuss any popular music born in America. We still have to deal w/ that filter. 
If there'd been a viable alternative to African derived music in America, surely this stuff would have stayed where it was, but alas, there was not. Ed Sullivan was an old radio holdover and his tastes reflected that. Only in those dys could that show have been that big, but then again...there was nothing else happening during most of his run. [Edited 6/19/09 22:14pm] | |
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TD3 said: Timmy84 said: The point was black American R&B and rock singers found it difficult to get on Sullivan. After Bo Diddley became the first in 1955, only Elvis got some Sullivan coverage, and it wasn't until 1964 when the Beatles and the Supremes came through. Both acts broke a way for rock groups and soul acts to get on Ed Sullivan. You dare wouldn't see Tina Turner on Sullivan in 1960 because she was too raunchy for television. By 1970, things changed a bit and she was invited to be on there. It led to her and Ike's brief mainstream breakthrough in America. Ed Sullivan was a tyrant and a jerk, truth be told. Sullivan didn't want Elvis on his show. Meow was on point for why Black's weren't seen on TV in the 50's and 60's. Many would like to forget at ever junction of our musical culture Gospel, Jazz, R&B, and Rock&Roll was perceived by many white Americans as "Ni&&er" music. Lets just tell the truth and shame the devil.
Though as racist and as segregated as Chicago was (and still is in many aspects), African-American musical culture (Gospel and Blues) was supported and aired in ABC and CBS affiliates on a regular bases from about the mid 60's onward. On Sundays from 5:30 am to around 1:00 pm ABC, CBS, and local Chicago Station, WGN (Channel 9 which in some parts of the country is a super station on cable now) all had Gospel programming and the who's who of Gospel music from around the country. Ya know? Bo Diddley even defied Ed when he did his hit instead of the song Ed wanted him to do ("Sixteen Tons" I think it was). He was banned from the show because of it but Bo of course didn't give a fuck. Jimi Morrison also defied him saying "girl we couldn't get much higher" when he was told not to. | |
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brooksie said: TD3 said: Ed Sullivan was a tyrant and a jerk, truth be told. Sullivan didn't want Elvis on his show. Meow was on point for why Black's weren't seen on TV in the 50's and 60's. Many would like to forget at ever junction of our musical culture Gospel, Jazz, R&B, and Rock&Roll was perceived by many white Americans as "Ni&&er" music. Lets just tell the truth and shame the devil.
Though as racist and as segregated as Chicago was (and still is in many aspects), African-American musical culture (Gospel and Blues) was supported and aired in ABC and CBS affiliates on a regular bases from about the mid 60's onward. On Sundays from 5:30 am to around 1:00 pm ABC, CBS, and local Chicago Station, WGN (Channel 9 which in some parts of the country is a super station on cable now) all had Gospel programming and the who's who of Gospel music from around the country. Whaddya mean WAS? That's the bulk of the problem when we discuss any popular music born in America. We still have to deal w/ that filter.
If there'd been a viable alternative to African derived music in America, surely this stuff would have stayed where it was, but alas, there was not. Ed Sullivan was an old radio holdover and his tastes reflected that. Only in those dys could that show have been that big, but then again...there was nothing else happening during most of his run. [Edited 6/19/09 22:14pm] What I said.... | |
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It was rare that people defied Sullivan cuz he had so much power, so good on Bo! I thought it was hilarious that as late as 68 he was trying to get The Doors to play nice. | |
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TD3 said: brooksie said: Whaddya mean WAS? That's the bulk of the problem when we discuss any popular music born in America. We still have to deal w/ that filter.
If there'd been a viable alternative to African derived music in America, surely this stuff would have stayed where it was, but alas, there was not. Ed Sullivan was an old radio holdover and his tastes reflected that. Only in those dys could that show have been that big, but then again...there was nothing else happening during most of his run. [Edited 6/19/09 22:14pm] What I said.... It amazes me that still many people love the music, but hate the ones who came up w/ it. Silly, ain't it?  | |
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brooksie said: TD3 said: What I said.... It amazes me that still many people love the music, but hate the ones who came up w/ it. Silly, ain't it? It's STUPID is what it is. | |
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brooksie said: It was rare that people defied Sullivan cuz he had so much power, so good on Bo! I thought it was hilarious that as late as 68 he was trying to get The Doors to play nice.
As if they would, lol. I remember when one of the Doors or one of Jim's friends went "why you'd do that, you'll never be on Sullivan again." Jim's response: "but we DID Sullivan." | |
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JB's first time at the Apollo was in February of 1959. He was opening for Little WIllie John. At that time he'd only had two charting singles, Please and Try Me. His current single, I Want You So Bad was climbing up the charts. He didn't become a headliner until 1960.
Where The Action didn't debut until 1965. In a booklet I have, in 1962, his track Night Train was played on American BAndstand, but not sure if JB and the Flames were even in the building,. PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever ----- Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It | |
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LittleBLUECorvette said: JB's first time at the Apollo was in February of 1959. He was opening for Little WIllie John. At that time he'd only had two charting singles, Please and Try Me. His current single, I Want You So Bad was climbing up the charts. He didn't become a headliner until 1960.
Where The Action didn't debut until 1965. In a booklet I have, in 1962, his track Night Train was played on American BAndstand, but not sure if JB and the Flames were even in the building,. Hmm, that's interesting... | |
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LittleBLUECorvette said: JB's first time at the Apollo was in February of 1959. He was opening for Little WIllie John. At that time he'd only had two charting singles, Please and Try Me. His current single, I Want You So Bad was climbing up the charts. He didn't become a headliner until 1960.
Where The Action didn't debut until 1965. In a booklet I have, in 1962, his track Night Train was played on American BAndstand, but not sure if JB and the Flames were even in the building,. Toldja so! | |
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brooksie said: LittleBLUECorvette said: JB's first time at the Apollo was in February of 1959. He was opening for Little WIllie John. At that time he'd only had two charting singles, Please and Try Me. His current single, I Want You So Bad was climbing up the charts. He didn't become a headliner until 1960.
Where The Action didn't debut until 1965. In a booklet I have, in 1962, his track Night Train was played on American BAndstand, but not sure if JB and the Flames were even in the building,. Toldja so! I did some research at home, and I stand corrected. JB's Apollo Debut was with Little Willie John in '59, but he didn't headline himself until a year later. And it's true, Where the action is wasn't launched until '65. But we still have some undated American Bandstand performances, which look like they are pre-1964. However, the Where the action is footage that I have looks very 63 - 64ish, but it's actually 65, so you never know. But without a doubt, the T.A.M.I. show is from 1964, and this was a major broadcast ... | |
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MrSoulpower said: brooksie said: Toldja so! I did some research at home, and I stand corrected. JB's Apollo Debut was with Little Willie John in '59, but he didn't headline himself until a year later. And it's true, Where the action is wasn't launched until '65. But we still have some undated American Bandstand performances, which look like they are pre-1964. However, the Where the action is footage that I have looks very 63 - 64ish, but it's actually 65, so you never know. But without a doubt, the T.A.M.I. show is from 1964, and this was a major broadcast ... Yeah James definitely came through in the T.A.M.I. show, that was one of the first times EVERYBODY (besides the R&B community) really took notice of him. | |
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The message you are about to hear are not meant for transmission. Should ONLY be accessed in the privacy of your mind. Words are so intense so if you dare to listen.Take off your clothes and meet me between the lines.  | |
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