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PrintableI figured since I mentioned Chuck Berry earlier, I'll give you a gander at him at his best, before his "troubles"...note the title  :
[Edited 6/18/09 16:43pm] | |
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brooksie said: coolcat said: But part of the job of an entertainer is to be a fake... like an actor... Not necessarily. Musicians AREN'T actors (trust me, I'm a music film fan ) . In the past and even now, much of the image was what people ascribed to the group/artist. Of course some artist try to shape that, but really it's about people's preceptions.
Let's not forget the public's participation in image making. They WANT to be fooled, at least most. [Edited 6/18/09 16:36pm] I guess my feeling is... the artist doesn't have a responsibility to be "real"... And the consumer shouldn't expect that the image portrayed in the art is somehow a reflection of the artist's "real" personality. Take David Bowie for example... he wrote from the perspective of fictional personas like Ziggy Stardust or Thin White Duke... that's a part of the art... | |
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^^^ True enough...and Bowie did make some good films.  | |
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brooksie said: I figured since I mentioned Chuck Berry earlier, I'll give you a gander at him at his best, before his "troubles"...note the title
:
[Edited 6/18/09 16:43pm] what did chuck berry do? | |
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suga10 said: BoOTyLiCioUs said: Please don't insult my intelligence  It really is not a laughing matter. There are many people as well as myself that believe he is innocent. People have different opinions...remember to respect them. Just remember not everyone and everyone on this board believes what you believe about michael or janet as matter of fact. There are various reasons why I believe Michael is not a pedophile. There is so much evidence that backs Michael's innocence. I don't think michael is perfect, I think that he got caught up in this save the world mentality. He's made some dumb decisions and had too many..probably still does...yes men around him. He's been too nice( no pun intended) to too many people and this has led too many people to take advantage of him. He's out of touch with reality and as well has irresposibiliy/arrogance/stubborness streak right through him. I've read numerous court transcripts, info on the case...psychoologocal stuff...lets not forget I hav a criminology degree so I have info on that stuff as well. Let's remember that the accuser were teenage boys, not little boys so there is a possibility of lying. People can be falsely accused, even of child molestion. I can remember in my criminal investigation class, our teacher who was a sheriff wastenaw county in michigan told us of a story of a collegue that he worked with was falsely accused of it by his daughter who has something wrong with her mentally...he passed the lie detector test...but is knocking on death's door...lost his wife...job...and is near death. I also had a guy at my church who would have church guys/street guys come over play video games/watch tv/eat food so people could socialize and stay out of trouble. I can remember he abrutly left the church and I heard that some parent accused him of doing something...but I talked to guys who went over there and they said nothing happened. And I believe them. It is possible to be falsely accused any crime.
http://whoismichael.com/index.htm http://floacist.wordpress...on/page/2/ Right, Arvizos come across as a bunch of golddiggers and their track record is hideous. as well as Jordie Chandler and Jason Francia. I heard a rumour that Jordan was going to testify at Michael's trial and say that nothing happened to him. It was also said that he was so embrassed and mad at his dad and mom(she said she didn't think Jackson molested him) making up the allegations that he moved to france and haven't talked to them since. This is true because June Chandler testified that she hadn't talked to him in 11 years...this was in 2005. I think Jordie's father was jealous that Michael was more of a father figure to Jordie than he ever was. As for Jason, his mom who was a fired worker who stole from jackson accused Jackson and then admitted she was given 20,000 dollars to come on hard copy and tell her story. Funny how they only said it happened when they were offered money by tabloids. Francia's actually sold their story to the tabloids. | |
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Chuck did the time Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis didn't.
From wiki: Second jail term (1959-1963) By the end of the 1950s, Berry was an established star with several hit records and film appearances to his name, as well as a lucrative touring career. He had also established his own St. Louis-based nightclub, called Berry's Club Bandstand. It was an integrated venue catering to black and white customers. Berry, a shrewd businessman, even considered opening an Amusement park, according to Allmusic.com. But in December 1959, Berry encountered legal problems after he invited a 14-year-old Apache waitress whom he met in Mexico to work as a hat check girl at his club. After being fired from the club, the girl was arrested on a prostitution charge and Berry was arrested under the Mann Act. After a trial and retrial, Berry was convicted, fined $5,000, and sentenced to five years in prison. This event, coupled with other early rock and roll scandals such as Jerry Lee Lewis' marriage to his 13-year-old cousin and Alan Freed's payola conviction, gave rock and roll an image problem that limited its acceptance into mainstream U.S. society. [Edited 6/18/09 17:20pm] | |
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ernestsewell said: trueiopian said: Hmmm ok I can respect that
So did you stop listening to Phil Spector's productions because he's a murderer? 
and what is it did R.Kelly get away with? Here's the difference. Phil wasn't killing folks back in the day of producing incredible walls of sound. R. Kelly was on video, ALLEGEDLY, and continually got in trouble w/ the law, and made music. That wasn't rock n' roll rebellion, that was just him being creepy and pervy while putting out albums, which usually only include songs about fucking. His music is banal, vapid, and ultimately irrelevant in the bigger scheme of music. I mean, who is influenced by HIS style? I personally lost a lot of interest in MJ because of the 2nd round of molestation charges. And his music showed his angst against the whole process, and it turned negative, and he lost a LOT of inspiration and originality in his music. He started to lose it during HIStory's new disk, but Invincible really showed his ultimate disinterest in anything original and creative anymore. I'd be glad if he never released anything again. Only because I don't believe in him enough to think he'd release anything remotely interesting for the public. Dangerous was his last great album, and that was 1992/3-ish? Since then he's had two new albums, one of which was part of a compilation. He's had numerous rehashes of the same songs over and over either on CD or DVD. The #1's, the greatest hits (which was basically disk 1 of HIStory sold separately from the new disk of music). He even rehashed Thriller TWICE since it's first release. There was a remastered set of four solo albums (Off the Wall through Dangerous) back in 2001 or so), plus the 25th anniversary rerelease with the HORRIBLE remakes by Akon and will.i.am and Fergie. HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE. And let's not forget The Ultimate Collection with only a few rare gems on there (demos, outtakes, and the never released on CD "You Can't Win" extended version). technically the record company keeps releasing the greatest hits packages | |
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Graycap23 said: In general, Americans are upset by what the media tells them 2 be upset about. Period.
true. i have always felt that the media is what really controls this country | |
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The MJ floons done flipped over this damn thread  | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: suga10 said: Right, Arvizos come across as a bunch of golddiggers and their track record is hideous. as well as Jordie Chandler and Jason Francia. I heard a rumour that Jordan was going to testify at Michael's trial and say that nothing happened to him. It was also said that he was so embrassed and mad at his dad and mom(she said she didn't think Jackson molested him) making up the allegations that he moved to france and haven't talked to them since. This is true because June Chandler testified that she hadn't talked to him in 11 years...this was in 2005. I think Jordie's father was jealous that Michael was more of a father figure to Jordie than he ever was. As for Jason, his mom who was a fired worker who stole from jackson accused Jackson and then admitted she was given 20,000 dollars to come on hard copy and tell her story. Funny how they only said it happened when they were offered money by tabloids. Francia's actually sold their story to the tabloids. thats actually believable especially when you consider the fact that around the time of the trial jordan sued his father for attacking him. http://lawlibrary.rutgers...5.opn.html it makes you wonder if maybe he attacked himto keep jordan from telling people something he didn't want people to find out | |
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Wasn't Francia also married to Tom Sneddon's daughter also? | |
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I think it depends on the artist and the severity of the personal problems. There are a few that I just don't feel the same way about anymore but it's not really a conscious choice. Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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JackieBlue said: I think it depends on the artist and the severity of the personal problems. There are a few that I just don't feel the same way about anymore but it's not really a conscious choice.
I kinda feel weird listening to old Immature albums because of what was said about Chris Stokes and what was going on backstage "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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bboy87 said: JackieBlue said: I think it depends on the artist and the severity of the personal problems. There are a few that I just don't feel the same way about anymore but it's not really a conscious choice.
I kinda feel weird listening to old Immature albums because of what was said about Chris Stokes and what was going on backstage Oh yeah well that's definitely understandable. And after that other one posted that nasty video I think it's a done dada for them. Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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JackieBlue said: bboy87 said: I kinda feel weird listening to old Immature albums because of what was said about Chris Stokes and what was going on backstage Oh yeah well that's definitely understandable. And after that other one posted that nasty video I think it's a done dada for them. and I can't listen to Pretty Ricky anymore either.....well, I didn't listen to them before...but ...even if I wanted to, I couldn't HE WAS TWIRLIN' ABOUT IN RED PANNIES, JACKIE!! RED PANNIES!!  "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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bboy87 said: JackieBlue said: Oh yeah well that's definitely understandable. And after that other one posted that nasty video I think it's a done dada for them. and I can't listen to Pretty Ricky anymore either.....well, I didn't listen to them before...but ...even if I wanted to, I couldn't HE WAS TWIRLIN' ABOUT IN RED PANNIES, JACKIE!! RED PANNIES!! OMG, I saw it and was so traumatized I couldn't even post about it. I was speechless. Who does that? How 'bout WHY do that? Sad misguided youth.  I don't think anybody can listen to them anymore except for maybe a handful of lil girls who think they're hot and what that boy was doing was on point. I wouldn't know them if I were in an elevator with them playing their biggest song over the speaker but I know enough to know I'm not interested. Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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JackieBlue said: bboy87 said: and I can't listen to Pretty Ricky anymore either.....well, I didn't listen to them before...but ...even if I wanted to, I couldn't HE WAS TWIRLIN' ABOUT IN RED PANNIES, JACKIE!! RED PANNIES!! OMG, I saw it and was so traumatized I couldn't even post about it. I was speechless. Who does that? How 'bout WHY do that? Sad misguided youth. I don't think anybody can listen to them anymore except for maybe a handful of lil girls who think they're hot and what that boy was doing was on point. I wouldn't know them if I were in an elevator with them playing their biggest song over the speaker but I know enough to know I'm not interested. and this ain't the first time he's done shit like that. People had forgotten about them by 2008 so what did he do? post pictures of his wang online
some people want to be famous just for the sake of being famous "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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bboy87 said: JackieBlue said: OMG, I saw it and was so traumatized I couldn't even post about it. I was speechless. Who does that? How 'bout WHY do that? Sad misguided youth. I don't think anybody can listen to them anymore except for maybe a handful of lil girls who think they're hot and what that boy was doing was on point. I wouldn't know them if I were in an elevator with them playing their biggest song over the speaker but I know enough to know I'm not interested. and this ain't the first time he's done shit like that. People had forgotten about them by 2008 so what did he do? post pictures of his wang online
some people want to be famous just for the sake of being famous He exposed himself too??? BTW, poor Cassie in that interview with Charlamagne. She really didn't bring anything to the table did she? Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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I have majority of the time rooted for the underdog depending on how bad the personal problem was. Druggies can go get help. An abused or battered person can get help. An innocent child can not help themselves.
As far as Michael goes, nobody really knows what went on with Michael Jackson but the children that are left alone in his presence back then. If anything really happened would you believe YOUR child or Michael Jackson, and if so is it just because he is the "King of Pop"? Even though I like Michael's music I sure as hell would NOT leave my kid or ANY child or children left in my care ALONE with him. Yeah they don't have any proof but It doesn't mean it didn't happen. Usually you would look for the groupie women to scream wolf on Michael but it's the children, which is strange as hell. I personally don't think all these children coming forth on Michael is WRONG!!!! If you think R.Kelly got off free what about Michael you can't just turn a blind eye because you favor one over the other. Until he's proven gulity, I'll continue to buy his music. Just the thought of a pedophiler makes me wanna cringe! 
If both of them are guilty justice will prevail eventually. I don't support R.Kelly because he married Aaliyah, you can't really fault him because her parents handed her over to him on a silver platter to become a star. They are not that dumb not to know hanky panky was going on. When celebrities got deep pockets it's easy to cover up their dirt... The message you are about to hear are not meant for transmission. Should ONLY be accessed in the privacy of your mind. Words are so intense so if you dare to listen.Take off your clothes and meet me between the lines.  | |
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JackieBlue said: bboy87 said: and this ain't the first time he's done shit like that. People had forgotten about them by 2008 so what did he do? post pictures of his wang online
some people want to be famous just for the sake of being famous He exposed himself too??? BTW, poor Cassie in that interview with Charlamagne. She really didn't bring anything to the table did she? 
they went in on her and that rapper Red Cafe and the caller "Who is Cassie?" Cassie tried to get smart then the caller said "you need to care because we dont remember you boo" I was like Smokey in Friday "She gon' cry in the car" "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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bboy87 said: JackieBlue said: He exposed himself too??? BTW, poor Cassie in that interview with Charlamagne. She really didn't bring anything to the table did she?
they went in on her and that rapper Red Cafe and the caller "Who is Cassie?" Cassie tried to get smart then the caller said "you need to care because we dont remember you boo" I was like Smokey in Friday "She gon' cry in the car" I know! She seemed about as uninterested in her own career as the rest of the world. She's gotta come harder than that in a Beyonce-Rhianna world.
Oh, that reminds me, I do know one of those Pretty Ricky boys was on Wendy. I don't know which one and she kicked him off. She asked him about the red pannie boy and you know he tried to play like 'that's him and he does his thing, I'm doing mine'. Then she asked him to sing live and he sounded like  Right then and there she told him to take his headphones off and leave. She said she hasn't kicked anyone off the show since "Manteka" aka Tameka, Usher's soon to be ex-wife! [Edited 6/18/09 19:18pm] Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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JackieBlue said: bboy87 said:
they went in on her and that rapper Red Cafe and the caller "Who is Cassie?" Cassie tried to get smart then the caller said "you need to care because we dont remember you boo" I was like Smokey in Friday "She gon' cry in the car" I know! She seemed about as uninterested in her own career as the rest of the world. She's gotta come harder than that in a Beyonce-Rhianna world.
Oh, that reminds me, I do know one of those Pretty Ricky boys was on Wendy. I don't know which one and she kicked him off. She asked him about the red pannie boy and you know he tried to play like 'that's him and he does his thing, I'm doing mine'. Then she asked him to sing live and he sounded like Right then and there she told him to take his headphones off and leave. She said she hasn't kicked anyone off the show since "Manteka" aka Tameka, Usher's soon to be ex-wife!
[Edited 6/18/09 19:18pm] 
Just like some DJs tried to get T Pain to sing acapella for them and dude skipped out like he had to jump on the last train to Chicago "Uhh...Umm...I got soundcheck in 2 minutes....2...2..minutes" "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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Chic35 said: I have majority of the time rooted for the underdog depending on how bad the personal problem was. Druggies can go get help. An abused or battered person can get help. An innocent child can not help themselves.
As far as Michael goes, nobody really knows what went on with Michael Jackson but the children that are left alone in his presence back then. If anything really happened would you believe YOUR child or Michael Jackson, and if so is it just because he is the "King of Pop"? Even though I like Michael's music I sure as hell would NOT leave my kid or ANY child or children left in my care ALONE with him. Yeah they don't have any proof but It doesn't mean it didn't happen. Usually you would look for the groupie women to scream wolf on Michael but it's the children, which is strange as hell. I personally don't think all these children coming forth on Michael is WRONG!!!! If you think R.Kelly got off free what about Michael you can't just turn a blind eye because you favor one over the other. Until he's proven gulity, I'll continue to buy his music. Just the thought of a pedophiler makes me wanna cringe!
If both of them are guilty justice will prevail eventually. I don't support R.Kelly because he married Aaliyah, you can't really fault him because her parents handed her over to him on a silver platter to become a star. They are not that dumb not to know hanky panky was going on. When celebrities got deep pockets it's easy to cover up their dirt... People can believe Michael and not believe Kells (example....ME) If people looked at the evidence in BOTH cases, you'd see "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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JackieBlue said: bboy87 said:
they went in on her and that rapper Red Cafe and the caller "Who is Cassie?" Cassie tried to get smart then the caller said "you need to care because we dont remember you boo" I was like Smokey in Friday "She gon' cry in the car" I know! She seemed about as uninterested in her own career as the rest of the world. She's gotta come harder than that in a Beyonce-Rhianna world.
Oh, that reminds me, I do know one of those Pretty Ricky boys was on Wendy. I don't know which one and she kicked him off. She asked him about the red pannie boy and you know he tried to play like 'that's him and he does his thing, I'm doing mine'. Then she asked him to sing live and he sounded like Right then and there she told him to take his headphones off and leave. She said she hasn't kicked anyone off the show since "Manteka" aka Tameka, Usher's soon to be ex-wife!
[Edited 6/18/09 19:18pm] Jackie, I'm gonna need the audio to that PRONTO! "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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bboy87 said: JackieBlue said: I know! She seemed about as uninterested in her own career as the rest of the world. She's gotta come harder than that in a Beyonce-Rhianna world.
Oh, that reminds me, I do know one of those Pretty Ricky boys was on Wendy. I don't know which one and she kicked him off. She asked him about the red pannie boy and you know he tried to play like 'that's him and he does his thing, I'm doing mine'. Then she asked him to sing live and he sounded like Right then and there she told him to take his headphones off and leave. She said she hasn't kicked anyone off the show since "Manteka" aka Tameka, Usher's soon to be ex-wife!
[Edited 6/18/09 19:18pm] Jackie, I'm gonna need the audio to that PRONTO! I wish there were audiofiles of her show. He was horrible! He must be all studio. Maybe there's something floating around but I don't even know the guy's name! Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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suga10 said: Wasn't Francia also married to Tom Sneddon's daughter also?
I'm not sure...gotta check that out. | |
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bboy87 said: Chic35 said: I have majority of the time rooted for the underdog depending on how bad the personal problem was. Druggies can go get help. An abused or battered person can get help. An innocent child can not help themselves.
As far as Michael goes, nobody really knows what went on with Michael Jackson but the children that are left alone in his presence back then. If anything really happened would you believe YOUR child or Michael Jackson, and if so is it just because he is the "King of Pop"? Even though I like Michael's music I sure as hell would NOT leave my kid or ANY child or children left in my care ALONE with him. Yeah they don't have any proof but It doesn't mean it didn't happen. Usually you would look for the groupie women to scream wolf on Michael but it's the children, which is strange as hell. I personally don't think all these children coming forth on Michael is WRONG!!!! If you think R.Kelly got off free what about Michael you can't just turn a blind eye because you favor one over the other. Until he's proven gulity, I'll continue to buy his music. Just the thought of a pedophiler makes me wanna cringe!
If both of them are guilty justice will prevail eventually. I don't support R.Kelly because he married Aaliyah, you can't really fault him because her parents handed her over to him on a silver platter to become a star. They are not that dumb not to know hanky panky was going on. When celebrities got deep pockets it's easy to cover up their dirt... People can believe Michael and not believe Kells (example....ME) If people looked at the evidence in BOTH cases, you'd see  | |
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Mstrustme said: BoOTyLiCioUs said: I know I might get hell for what I'm about to say but I think way more people believe Michael is innocent than R Kelly. I haven't heard one person say that R kelly is innocent . I'm not saying everyone thinks MJ is innocent, there are plenty of people that think he is guilty and got away with it. R Kelly had a tape and married Aaliyah at 15...that's enough evidence for me to believe that he is a pedophile. Besides, Michael has contributed so much to the music industry and is a legend. R Kelly has had some good songs.Look how many people supported him in the music industry when the allegations came out. You never heard one person support R Kelly. I think that a lot of people don't know who R Kelly is so they don't know about the situation. And there are many people that still don't know about the tape. I can remember they were talking on the view how michael's shows sold out...and one lady said he would see him because he was acquited and then talked about R Kelly and one lady said what did R Kelly do? | |
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Because its hard to enjoy bump and grind, while your thinking of R. Kelly, fucking a young girl.
It just doesn't work like that for me, and many other people. Yes, historically, people have had numerous problems, but many aren't alive today, and we aren't actively supporting them today. I might listen, but I def. will not financially support any artist, or any of their endeavors, that I find distasteful, or that annoy me. I didn't like what P did to his fans, and I haven't, nor will I actually buy another album from him. Oh, and please DON't compare Michael Jackson to R. Kelly. PLEASE tell me when Michael married a fifteen year old, and PLEASE tell me where the tape is of him f**king a child is. [Edited 6/19/09 4:12am] | |
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midiscover said: The MJ floons done flipped over this damn thread
I was actually gonna keep my contribution general, but I just sampled a bit of the last page and right away I'm reading loon lies. "I heard.... blah, blah, blah". Anyway, if you love art then you would never let these things obscure your appreciation. It's like if we found out the guy who designed the Eiffel Tower was sleeping with underaged girls would we just tear it down? What if you found out the guy who performed your successful heart bypass operation was a rapist, would you demand the operation be done again? It doesn't make sense to me, and since most of the best artists are fucked up people anyway, we'd be getting rid of all the best stuff if we started dismissing their work on the basis of their personal conduct. All we'd have left would be Pat Boone, Cliff Richard and The Jonas Brothers. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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