Timmy84 said:

Pop success was NEVER gonna happen for most of those bands even if disco had never happened.

The big rnb/soul people who'd had crossover before disco could grouse w/ some justification, but the others were being a bit dishonest if they think Donna Summer kept them off the pop charts.

I also think some of the disco sucks stuff was really about sexism as much as racism/homohating. On both sides of the charts, men reigned surpreme as artists from the 50s onwards. Disco is one of the 1st (and last) forms were you saw that the majority of successful artists were female.
[Edited 6/17/09 15:09pm]

I just want to know how Stevie J tricked Biggie into rhyming over it

Harlepolis said:

True too.

brooksie said:

You forgot the 1960s when the girl groups came around until the British invasion took over. But I get what you meant though in terms of chart success and popularity. Women started to dominate during the disco era.

Timmy84 said:

Women didn't dominate in quite the same way in the girl group days...besides they were singing "female appropriate" lyrics. Disco divas were singing about sex, drugs, and not necessarily hanging around on some guy. In disco, they were talking about relationships on THEIR terms. How many women in genres before that really did outside of blues?

From the Elvis in Germany-Beatles land period, there were plenty of big male rock n rollers big in that genre (Ricky Nelson, Fabian, Roy Oribson, etc...) to where women didn't dominate the rock genere anywhere like they did disco.

Disco had The BGs, Andy Gibb, KC and the Sunshine, Band, etc...but Black women were the main hitmakers of the genre,

brooksie said:

Yeah I know what you mean, lol.

That's why I think Disco Sucks was so sickening back then. It was about trying to maintain/impose some old fashioned ideas about all sorts of people. Trying to put people in their places.

"Love To Love You Baby" would have NEVER happened w/ Zep! That's still one of the most provocative songs of that era (tho Serge did "Je. T'aime" 1st) and if people want to say disco is w/o a message, I'd like to know what tops this cut? "Wome nlike sex too" is STILL a radical concept for many folks.
[Edited 6/17/09 15:28pm]

brooksie said:

YES! Disco was as controversial as rock 'n' roll was when it first started out. But it wasn't too vulgar but back then in those times it was a SHOCK!

Timmy84 said:

You know what I always thought was funny? Women had to perform w/in certain very narrow parameters....they couldn't talk about wanting sex, leaving a guy (they always got left), and their looks mattered in terms of their sound. If you wanted to play guitar, you'd better be cute, weepy, and acoustic (Joni/Joan/Patti). If you wanted to do anything harder, you must be one of the boys (Janis) and leave any femininity at the door. You had to be either one of the girls and sing the right lyrics, or be an ersatz male.

Disco changed this because the women were mostly VERY feminine (Donna Summer ) and they were singing hard edged lyrics. People had never really seen this combo of hot sexy chick saying what they boys had always said.
[Edited 6/17/09 15:47pm]

Timmy84 said:

JB might have proclaimed to hate it but it didn't stop him putting out 'Sex Machine Now' back in '75, and i love that disco(ish) version.
And 'Get Up offa That Thing' in '76, the full version was full on Disco, no doubt.

I picked up the deluxe edition of Diana at last! Can't wait to listen to it, I've been too busy and still haven't opened it.

Marrk said:

But other than that, he could never really get off the ground during the disco era. Only "Get Up", "Body Heat" and maybe "It's Too Funky in Here" gave him some ground but not much.

The basic JB sound as well as other funksters were "heavy" for that era. Disco had tons of strings, lots of high voices/falsetto, and that incredbile bpm. Can you guys see JB and GC doing CREDIBLE disco?

Another thing I think some of the ARTISTS may have resented was how disco was full of one hit wonders and tons of "product". There weren't many artists who started in that era who even lasted until 1980 or so. Disco was full of disposable artists and hits. I can understand them resenting this.
[Edited 6/17/09 16:21pm]

brooksie said:

I definitely couldn't see James & George doing disco. James hated the strings they used in disco music, he felt they were corny for dance music and only needed for ballads and such. But yeah disco music definitely had a lot of one-hit wonders plus soul artists' main complaints were that disco produced disposable artists and songs as you said and they dared to cover soul and pop classics via the disco sound. That I can understand because to me, there were "disco songs" that actually took disco to be a joke. There was great disco and awful disco.

Timmy84 said:

One of the main complaints against disco too was it's "producer driven sound". This really helped lots of crap come out. "Disco Duck"... ? I can't hate on Estelle Axton and Rick Dees for their hustle, but that helped drive much of the music based prejudice against the genre. Rightly so. I hope Harle is still reading this.

Rick James blew up starting in the disco era (this can be said for Prince too)cuz he was the ANTI disco, but many of the older artists were put on ice then came back when it was all over. Odd that the rock crowd whined so much since disco actually didn't affect their dedicated stations very much, but it deluged dedicated rnb/soul stations.

Golly....how often was "We Are Family" played? When The Steelers (or some team) took it on as their theme song...wow .

brooksie said:

Basically, lol. And "We Are Family" keep on getting played as if it's the last thing they're gonna play!

Like I said b4...some of the reactions were plainly reactionary, but disco was everywhere w/ very little escape. Nothing now gets to be as big as it used to and continue to be for so long. If anybody or any song helped kill disco, it was Sister Sledge's "We Are Family". That song made the BGs seem like underground artists!

Disco got to this point>>>

brooksie said:

No shade on Sister Sledge but got damn!

Oh I am def reading

I already know that the late 70s confronted the US society about the issues that were going on.

I didn't know that Disco had its hands full of the confrontation as well, it explains alot.

But I wanna say, the fact that soul musicians opposed to it still bothers me, and I don't think its because of them being pigeonholeded to do it, I think its deeper. I remember Chaka Khan in a VERY angry interview with David Nathan at '79 saying to the effect that "music is whored, exploited and packaged to the point where people are getting numb. They don't wanna listen anymore, just wanna shake their asses".

Now everybody knows that Chaka is my doll, but this doesn't sit well with me.

But thanks to you Brooksie, I look at Donna Summers' music with a different light

However, I think the flamboyant femininity & sexuality were tackled not so long before the disco period, the woman is none other than Ms.Betty Davis however, in her case,,,she just hopped on the ride in the wrong place at the wrong time which explains her obscurity.
[Edited 6/17/09 17:08pm]

The one thing that's great about the disco resurgance is that all the crap's been weeded out and many people can enjoy it (again) w/o suffering from extreme overplay.

There's alots of cool comps and soundtracks using disco...one of my fav comps is "The Last Days of Disco" soundtrack and "The Disco Years" multi volume.

JB's just mad he didn't think of the killer dance track "Dance w/ Me" by Peter Brown.

Harle you're in a great position to enjoy disco now. If you don't have 'em, jump on some comps. ^^^ It sounds fantastic compared to much of what came later and frankly it's got that cool Studio 54 vibe that can't be beat.

BTW, you might like Serge Gainsbourg's stuff. He was never disco, per se, but always used strings and the like in his arrangements. "Histoire de Melody Nelson" might possibly be viewed as proto disco among many other things, but it's killer.

Honestly, I can't fully explain why rnb acts were so anti disco. It did take over rnb stations, true enough, but perhaps it really does into their crossover ambitions. Disco FULLY crossed over even tho most of the artists weren't white dudes. That sort of crossover was unusual back then and usually excluded people labeled as "rnb". Perhaps their resentment comes from the fact that the disco label was far more acceptable back then then a rnb/soul label was.

Timmy...what do you think about this?
[Edited 6/17/09 17:20pm]

brooksie said:

God rest his confused senile soul but didn't he record...



WTF

^^^ Talk about absurd! He's like the old ugly Tony Manero at the club w/ the light up floor. More insane was that Edie Gorme did a disco lp too. LOL...if you don't know how she is, her name accurately describes her. EVERYBODY did a disco

For shits and giggles, I think even Bunny Wailer did a disco.

Donna Summer was the bomb tho. She was SO glamourous...she was a whole new kind of sexy and sassy. Donna really stepped up the game.

About what Chaka said...from the late 60s into the mid 70s, music was VERY serious. People were looking for messages and wanted something heavy....something IMPORTANT. In short, it got very pretentious and preachy and rather anti social, IMHO.

Disco was a major departure from this, of course. It was not about being couch locked w/ your stereo on full high sitting on your bed. It was social stuff...you were supposed to put on your glad rags, meet folks, and dance.
[Edited 6/17/09 17:34pm]

brooksie said:

I'm in 100% agreement with that.

Harlepolis said:

"The Original Disco Man", Lord Jesus!

I love ya'll up in here, always be dropping that knowledge. I learn something new everyday in this forum.

And I loves me some Diana Ross no matter what.

brooksie said:

Trust me, nothing CRAZIER than this album..





Strangely enough, its not outta place it fits well with the madness.

Harlepolis said:

Good fucking point!

That's who I meant...Ethel. My aunt actually has that LP. It's probably worth a mint.

Harlepolis said:

Stop the rain, Jesus. Stop the rain!