i realise it's not his greatest achievemnt, but i think that if you get rid of the cheesy songs on this album you're left with something quite good. 2000 wats is one of the best and original things he's done in years and he's a lot better than his piss poor imitators- stand up darren hayes and justin timberlake. i quite like this album to be honest.

yes

maninthemirror said:

this is true, silence is golden!

i liked it most of it could have been shorter

I think He has Moments on this Album but I also think MJ was also reflecting to the Current CLimate in Music as well.the Standards are different nowadays IMHO.all you need is 3-5 Cuts&a Album is Considered a Classic.2 Songs Makes you a SuperStar Today.I think He is tired of the Biz&what He has had to deal with&I could kinda tell that.you could put "Whatever Happens" alone up against Any Song out over this Past Year&it will still Kick Ass.add a Video that matches the Story-Telling&it's Incredible.MJ like Prince,Stevie,___ Fill in the Blanks are Held to a Whole Different Standard than your Average Pop Artist.He had Some Songs on there that could easily hang with what's out now but when your Record Company won't release your singles&whatnot what are you gonna do?this Cat has been in the Game since He was 5 Years Old.but because of the Standards He Set Back in the Day Not Only is He Guilty of Being Trapped from it but so are People who follow or even peep Him to this day on the Music Tip.but I think songs like "Break of Dawn",Whatever Happens,Butterflies&Heaven Can Wait will make that Album seem like a Underappreciated Gem in Years to Come IMHO.when you consider that most Albums nowadays only have 3-4 Solid Songs&Even Dr Dre was quoted as saying along those lines then this Album will be seen better by some.but for me overall My Last Fav Album by Him all the way was "Dangerous".this Album has Some Jams but I can tell He was kinda going through the Motions in spots IMHO.

There are about 5 decent songs on there. I listened to it about 3 times and never again.

TRON said:

ditto...

SkletonKee said:

mmm, yeah, ditto for me too I guess. I don't think I've listened to it since the week after it came out. In fact, I probably don't even own it. I slapped the best cuts onto a best of MJ set I was making and got rid of them all.

I quite like most of the songs.

I think 'Invincible' is a great album.There are at least 7 or 8 really strong songs on it...

"Butterflies"
"You Rock My World"
"Heaven Can Wait"
"Cry"
"Break Of Dawn"
"Whatever Happens" with Santana
"Speechless"
"Unbreakable"


The other songs aren't that bad either,but those are the obvious highlights,imo.I think the problem is,whenever MJ does a new album,expectations are always unrealistically high.People are always expecting another 'Thriller' and the media hype is just too much for ANY album to live up to.

If you remove all the 'chessey' songs there are only about 4 songs left on the disc. However, songs like 'butterflies' are of undeniably high quality. There is though no excuse for sentimental crass such as 'cry' and 'the lost children'. It's an insult to your intelligence just to listen.

I think that MJ should forget the 'mega-star, 'King of Pop' crap and pomposity and go back to basics and make a simple, pure soul album. 'Invincible' proved he has the ability to achieve this on a handful of tracks.

However he seems obsessed with chasing trends and hiring the latest hot-shot producers whose production styles do not necessarily suit his voice. A more organic, retro approach would be more suitable in my opinion.

In conclusion, I found 'Invincible' most unsatisfactory considering the wait. If it took MJ this long and an army of producers and writers to create 3 good songs then the man is finished.

The producers and writers list on 'Invincible' reads like a war memorial.

Maybe 'Invincible' is Jacksons own.



[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 2:04:40 PDT 2002 by Mr7]
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 2:05:07 PDT 2002 by Mr7]

maninthemirror said:

1. if '2000 watts' is his best and most original song in years i'm santa claus.. there are far better songs on that album than '2000 watts'. i especially like the ballads on the first half of the record.

2. i don't want to defend him, but timberlake is fresh where mike hasn't been fresh for over six or seven years now. watch the moves, he CAN dance. where mike was influenced by james brown's dancing, timberlake is influenced by mike's. nothing wrong with that if you can pull it off like he can. and musically you can say it's not only timberlake copying mike (IF that is the case), it's also the other way around. just listen to 'heartbreaker'..

3. mike is just not what he was anymore.. and that's an understatement!

I actually like all of this album when in the mood,
However, i think these ten would've done:

Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Invincible
Break of Dawn
Heaven can wait
You Rock My World
Butterflies
Speechless
2000 Watts
Whatever Happens

I think there are only 4 weak songs on the album...


***"Privacy"---this song sucks!! Why didn't MJ scrap this lousy track and replaced it with a kickass rock song?!

***"You Are My Life"---a snoozefest! MJ should have scrapped this song and replaced with a kickass duet with a female vocalist.

***"Don't Walk Away"---another lifeless ballad.

***"Invincible"---the title track isn't too exciting.


Take those 4 songs off the album,add four more really strong songs and you would have his strongest album since 'Thriller'.
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 5:42:03 PDT 2002 by DavidEye]

This album contains some of his best work. To say Timberlake is fresh, when his new track and half of N Sync's last album was a poor mans version of the sound on Invincible (they had preview listens to the album and stole the sound) is ludicrous.

The album is his best in years. Unbreakable has a bassline to rival Billie Jean and is so hard and edgy in it's production it is the hottest cut he's made since Startin' Somethin'. Speechless is melodically the finest composition he's ever done. The vocals and sheer soul in Heaven Can Wait and Butterflies prove that the MJ of 1979 is still very much alive. And as for Whatever Happens, Prince would've killed to have written such a great jam.

To Davideye:

I think even with those 4 tracks u mentioned it's still his best album since Thriller.

In fact, considering how strong the 1st half of the album is, it may well be his most consistent effort since Off The Wall. Tracks 2&3 from Thriller have never done much for me.
Off The Wall is great all the way thru'.
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 5:50:45 PDT 2002 by Cloudbuster]

if you take away 'the lost children' and 'privacy' whay you have is Jacksons most consistantly enjoyable album since 'off the wall'

A combination of sony politics, abuse allegations and the general state of the man's face have put paid to his career.It's a shame, it upsets me to be honest as i'm a big fan, always have been.

MattyJam said:

bwaaahahahahahaha!!!


bwaaahahahahahaha!!!


bwaahahahahahahaha!!! stop it, i'm getting cramps..

I posted this in the 'Break of Dawn' thread:


My personal rendition of Invincible goes like this:

1. Unbreakable
2. Butterflies
3. Whatever Happens
4. You Rock My World (without Chris Tucker intro)
5. Break of Dawn
6. Shout
7. Heaven Can Wait
8. 2000 Watts
9. Speechless
10. Invincible
11. Don't Walk Away
12. Threatened


There it is, a really decent 12 track album. Only Don't Walk Away and 2000 Watts could IMO be considered as distinctly "average" (I put them in to even it out between ballads and up-tempos), and that's all just opinion anyway because I know people who adore some of the tracks I left out. Anyway, I burned it onto a CD of my own and it's the only version I listen to now. The album was seriously lacking balance, and that's what you get when you work with that many people at a time.

You can't please everyone so you just shove as much in as possible and hope people can pick out what they like. That's the wrong way to go about making an album as a whole though, it's more like a compilation. Thriller and Off The Wall to me aren't as good as Dangerous, but what makes them so damn classic is that they leave you wanting more.

I personally think the song Speechless is absolutely ridiculous. It starts out good, but once the children's choir and cheesy synth sounds come in, it's completely hellbound.

However, I'm probably the only one here that really likes You Are my Life and Don't Walk Away. Don't Walk Away more so than You are my Life...I just love the strings and the pain in his voice in this one. I find these ballads as moving as the others. Not as good as Break of Dawn/Heaven/Butterflies, but still very good. Basically, the problem Mike has is he is now a great balladeer (when not too cheesy) but writes poor uptempo songs (or at least not nearly as good as he used to).

DavidEye said:

I'd keep "Invincible", take off the other three you mention in addition to "Lost Children", "Speechless", "2000 Watts" and "Cry" doesn't work for me like it once did. "Threatened" isn't that special either.

Hmmm, as a lifelong MJ fan I think it is now set in stone that You Are My Life is IMO the WORST MJ song EVER! It's worse than Girlfriend, it's worse that freakin' Dapper Dan from 1975. It's worse than the whole Farewell My Summer Love album.

OK, the only MJ/Jacksons song worse than YAML is Petals, a cruddy album track from 1972 which Jermaine sings. Oh, and Body from the Victory album which Marlon has a stab at

Ellie said:

It's poor yeah but I prefer it to "Gone Too Soon", "Little Susie", "Smile", "Lost Children" etc.

Wow, I love Little Susie and Smile.

Gone too Soon isn't bad either...

Guess we all have different tastes.

Some say only 4 weak ones, some say only 4 strong ones.

I say only four that I would keep

Awww, Little Susie and Smile are wicked, and I'm in a minority of people who love Gone Too Soon. It's all about the vocal delivery and sincerity in his voice

The Lost Children? Erm, I like the melody and it's supposed to emulate some Irish tradition that people would sing in the old days. It's very cheesy and out of place though, but if that's what he likes then that's what he likes. Just don't expect it to be a commercial success.

Maybe that's what this new venture is about with his own label - the Neverland label "rumour" has proven to be true - I myself was rooting for DMG after they made him an offer (their press releases were very convincing and they seemed desperate to get him). He won't really have to answer to anyone and can freely put out the music he wants. Being the biggest act in the world again isn't realistic and he probably doesn't want it anyway as he's got an interest in movies, what with the deal with MDP Entertainment earlier in the year.

I said this on another thread, but it's worth repeating...

June7 said:

I can't understand this hatred of the "Threatened" track. Do you have any idea how much work must have gone in to just piecing together the Rod Serling rap? I think that's a brilliant track. Just enough of a hint of "Thriller" to be an hommage and yet an updating of the concept at the same time. Could've made a killer Halloween video as well.

Ellie said:

the worst is "Be Not Always" Yikes that was Scary.

Jestyr said:

that was a Very Dated New Jack Swing Track like 12 years too Late IMHO.