DesireeNevermind said:

he changed his body in loosing a great amount of weight in the early 80s.

graecophilos said:

hes always looked boney to me

DesireeNevermind said:

you obviously don't know anything about BDD cause all people with BDD don't have the same symptoms. some people may hate everything including their body but most are obsesed with only their face particularly the nose in many cases



Introduction
Background

Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD) was recognized formally in 1997 in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV) under the somatoform disorders. BDD is defined as a preoccupation with an imagined or slight defect in appearance. This preoccupation causes significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other areas of functioning in the person's life. Another disorder, such as whole body image dissatisfaction (as in anorexia nervosa), cannot explain this preoccupation.

In Europe more than 100 years ago, Morselli described persons with a subjective feeling of ugliness or with a slight physical defect considered abnormal by the patient but undetectable by others. He stated that these people felt miserable, were tormented by their imagined defect, and were consumed by thoughts of this defect in any situation. The term dysmorphobia was coined by him.

The facial area, including the skin, hair, or nose, are the most common area of concern for many patients. Many patients affected with BDD have comorbid conditions, such as obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), major depression, delusions, or social phobia. Of those with a primary diagnosis of BDD, 30% meet criteria for OCD. Approximately 2-7% of patients who undergo plastic surgery have BDD. Patients who undergo plastic surgery generally are unhappy with the results and find another part of the body with which to be concerned or continue to be consumed with thoughts about the postoperative site.
Pathophysiology

Social values greatly influence body image, an important part of self-image. The media projects the impression that certain norms exist in appearance. This often leads individuals to compare themselves to people in movies, on television, or in magazines.

There are also theories that the human brain might be hardwired for certain ideal kinds of faces, bodies, and postures. These may signal health and reproductive fitness. Scientists have found that infants prefer to gaze at faces that adults consider attractive. Most people have concerns related to appearance; however, it is considered pathologic when concern causes distress and interferes with social or occupational functioning.

BDD is an unhealthy preoccupation with a mild or imagined defect of the body. This preoccupation with a perceived deformity disrupts patients' lives. Those who are affected check their appearance in mirrors frequently to confirm or conceal their perceived deformity. They may engage in long rituals of grooming, such as repeatedly combing hair, applying makeup, or picking skin. Patients think that this behavior may reduce their level of anxiety; however, it only intensifies it.

Because of frequent comorbidity with several other conditions, the diagnosis of BDD is often overlooked in psychiatric settings and in medical and surgical settings. Thus, the clinician should ask specific questions about BDD. For example, in a study of 110 patients with BDD, 51% did not reveal their symptoms to their therapist. However, as Phillips and Kaye noted, the outcome of treatment with the same medications and continued investigation indicate that disorders such as OCD, eating disorders, and anxiety disorders might be linked physiologically.1

Because patients with BDD have many features in common with OCD, BDD has often been included in the spectrum of OCD. Similarities include repetitive thoughts of a perceived defect that consumes most of the patient's time and activities centered on concealing or confirming the perceived deformity. BDD has much higher rates of poor insight, ideas of reference, overvalued ideas, and delusions. In a 2000 study, Deckersbach et al found that patients with BDD had impaired verbal and nonverbal memory encoding strategies.2 This finding indicates that executive memory deficits occur, and a lesion of the frontostriatal connections is involved. This abnormality in memory encoding also occurs in patients with OCD, and both conditions respond best to high-dose selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). Enlarged white matter volume and asymmetry of the caudate nucleus favoring the left have been observed in patients with BDD.

Some patients with BDD are noted to have a delusional component to their disease. Lack of insight characterizes the delusional variant of BDD. Patients with delusional BDD are the most severely dysfunctional These patients respond well to SSRIs, not antipsychotics.

Patients with BDD are more prone to major depression. In a 1999 report, Phillips et al noted that in clinical settings, 60% of patients with BDD have major depression and the lifetime risk for major depression in these patients is 80%.3 Patients with this comorbid duo are more at risk for suicide. Determining if patients with depression also have BDD is important because the treatment is more specific. Usually, major depression occurs as a result of the BDD, not vice-versa. Treatment for BDD is high-dose SSRIs, and patients who have major depression as a result of their BDD usually do not respond to non-SSRI medications or electroconvulsive therapy.

Social anxiety disorder is another common comorbid disorder found in those with BDD. This common and treatable anxiety disorder may be disabling if not treated.
Frequency
United States

BDD affects 1-2% of the general population; however, this is thought to be an underestimate because BDD frequently is underdiagnosed. Patients are ashamed of their problem and do not report it to their physicians. Incidence in the cosmetic surgery population ranges from 2-7%. Incidence in the dermatology population ranges from 9-15%.
International

Incidence and prevalence are unknown with any precision or accuracy.
Mortality/Morbidity

Patients with BDD often have low self-esteem and feel the need to confirm or avoid their perceived defect by engaging in ritualistic behaviors. These behaviors include checking their appearance in mirrors or avoiding mirrors, comparing their perceived defect with others, requiring constant reassurance from others that their defect is "normal" or "not that bad," and grooming excessively (eg, hair combing, applying makeup, picking skin). Patients with BDD often seek dermatologic or cosmetic referral for correction of their perceived defect.

* Patients generally engage in thoughts and behaviors relating to their perceived defect for 1 hour or more per day. In one series of adolescent patients, the average amount of time spent in activities related to their perceived defect was as much as 3 hours. These patients had particularly poor insight into their problem. Patients with poorer insight are likely to spend more time dealing with the imagined defect.
* Persons affected with BDD often avoid social situations because they fear people may point out their imagined defect or avoid them. Some patients skip school or work repeatedly or become housebound. They usually have difficulty maintaining relationships with peers, family, and spouses. Generally, persons affected with BDD are unmarried (three quarters of patients). Patients demonstrate a lack of effort in normal thinking because of obsessive concerns about their defect, causing them to have poor school or work performance.
* One of the most common comorbid conditions with BDD is major depression. Patients with these disorders usually have major depression as a result of BDD. These patients also are at increased risk for suicide; up to 29% of patients with BDD attempt suicide. Women with perceived facial defects are especially at risk for suicide. Therefore, inquiring about suicide risk is essential when working with patients with this disorder.

Race

No data are available on the relationship between BDD and race. However, one may speculate that cultures and groups with high emphasis on physical beauty and attractiveness may be more prone to having this disorder.
Sex

BDD affects men and women with equal frequency. Men are more likely to have a diagnosis of substance abuse (50%) and be single. Women more often have comorbid anxiety and panic disorder and are obsessed with legs and breasts.
Age

* The onset of BDD is in adolescence and young adulthood. As mentioned by Philips and Kaye, the average age of onset is 16-17 years.1 As with OCD, the course of BDD is generally chronic.
* It may also occur in older adults who are overly concerned with their aging appearance.

i'm sure you won't read this but whatever

whatsgoingon said:

And that goes for all variations of mixed-race, not just white/black combinations.

Most Metis (European and North American Native mixed) look varying degrees of Caucasian. White people think we're white. Native people think we're white. But Metis can spot another Metis a mile away, even if that person passes as or believes themselves to be white.

cdcgold said:

SO BASICALLY YOU BELIEVE MJ HAS BDD AND THIS IS WHY HE BOUGHT WHITE CHILDREN? YOU COULD HAVE JUST SAID THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE. GLAD YOU TOOK THE TIME TO PUSH FOR BDD AWARENESS THOUGH. feel better

Byron said:

He takes care of those kids, so biological or not, they're his. Case closed.

DesireeNevermind said:

well so many black people think white people look a certain way...that we have straight hair with blue eyes and blond hair with thin lips and small noses.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

I think that there is a degree of whiteness just as there is a degree of blackness or any other ethnicity. This results from interbreeding over the millenia. White people think blacks look a certain way and vice versa. Even within ethnic groups there are expectations of what someone should look like. Hitler didn't think that the jews or polish were truly white. He did however believe that the British and Russians were white but when they didn't side with his aryan ideals he waged war on them as well.

In Italy, the northern italians who tend to be fair skinned and light haired look down on the southern Italians and sicilians who are darker skinned and tend to have brown eyes. In Japan, if you are mixed with white you are not considered Japanese at all. However they are among the biggest consumers of cosmetic surgeries to make their eyes less slanted and to make their noses more keen.


While a truly white person would be blonde, blue eyed and thin lipped aka the Nordic look, not all white people fit that mold cuz some white people have other strains of ethnicity in them. The same goes for a black person who may be light skinned with light eyes and thin lips. You would have to visit another country to find somebody that is not mixed with something somewhere in their family tree.

But for the purposes of this thread. MJ is not likely the father of these kids not just because of the way he looks and his family looks but because of all the shadyness and secrecy surrounding their conception and Debbie's lack of parental rights.

bottom line. people will always have issues with race and appearance and sometimes they take it to the extreme. MJ is no different.

whatsgoingon said:

Ok let's talk about "black features." Explain to me then why I have full lips as well as my mother and I'm 100% white....pure Causasian blood. My mom has been tracing our family history back hundreds of years and there is no one in my family that is black or of any other ethicity, just all white. Or that fact that I have wavy hair just like some of my family members do. Or the fact that I have wide hips, thighs and a round behind(i'm in great shape by the way). I thought only black women and latino women are born with these body type
You see, the full lips and broad nose that are said to be "black features" are stereotypes. I've seen many ethicities have these features. This has been said in an Anthropology class that I took in a college. It was shown by picture that different ethicities one person from Africa for example had the same nose to those who were asian.The reason for the different shades of skin color were due to the climate...darker skin in the hotter climates and lighter skin in the cooler climates. And believe me, I've seen a white person by a broad noise before. It could be asked that what about heart diease that plagues that black community...that it is due to eating habits. Whites tend to eat a lot healthlier and are obessed with losing weight. If you've noticed, all those diet commercials are full of white people. Why is it a big deal if black person has plastic surgery but it's ok for whites to have it? I mean it's obvious to me that Buffy the Body and Melissa Ford have had some work done...but that can't be true since they are black and it must be natural that they have curveous bodies. The reason why you don't see a lot of white/asian women with curveous is because of culture. Eating habits has a lot to deal with it plus it is not popular with whites to have a curveous. If you look back 50 years ago, there were white women such as doris day and marilyn monroe that had curvy bodies but as soon as twiggy got on the scene, it all changed. Why do you think aneroxica is a huge problem with white women? You won't believe how many black guys ask me if I'm mixed...wtf?? do I look mixed to you mofo? I am very fair, almost of a porcelain color.

DesireeNevermind said:

I'm fully white...100% pure blooded. And I have strawberry blond hair, light brown eyes and full lips. Again, you are stereotyping.

meow85 said:

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

-----
If you walk down the street no one is going to confuse you with a black person.
If you look black in America you are black if you look white your are white.

Those are not Mike's biological children. He wants nothing to do with the African American community and has not for sometime know.

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

Uh no...you just fail to realize and accept that there really are pure phenotypes and we are all the product of those. let me ask you. Do you believe in creationism or evolution? If you believe in the former then what race were Adam and Eve? If you believe in the latter then again, how did humanity get to the variety that we all are today?

Also you say your mom traced your family back hundreds of years? Did she go by census and court records? Did she just take family members word? Did she trace your father's family tree as well? How do you know nobody lied about their status? Immigrants change their names, some people lie about their religion or family. Why wouldn't someone not be truthful or even aware of what other ethnicity is in their family? Strawberry blondhe hair eh? That comes from blonde and red hair mixtures. red hair comes from blonde and black hair mixture. So somebody in your family somewhere had black hair and dark eyes which is why you have strawberry blonde hair and light brown eyes. This is not rocket science just plain ole geneology. For someone so quick to defend MJ as the father of those kids you sure are quick to tout yourself as 100% white. Why would you even have to do that?

Wow I am amazed at all these posts about MJ kids and that they cannot possibly be his because they look white. Please read up on the mixed children of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings. Several were so "white" that they simply moved away and adopted a white identity. This happened all over American at the end of slavery. The truth is "white racial purity" is a complete myth. The census of America from the end of slavery until the 1950's shows that many thousands ( as much as 20,000 per year) of mixed race people (considered black by Americas one drop rule), in order to get white privilege simply moved away from their home town or city, changed their name and passed as white. The census takers were able to detect this when they looked at the statistics of the nation as a whole. They noticed that the same of black people simply "disappeared" and whites "appeared" elsewhere in the country.
This notion that you can tell someone's "race" or parentage by looking at them is not always true. But don't take my word for it visit the website of "Race- Power of an Illusion":
-----

I have no real state in this, but enough of the BULLSHIT.

Sally Hemmings was VERIFIABLy a mixed race person. If a 1/2 black person, and a white person produce a child, said child would be 75percent white, and there is no surprise that some of the children were passable. Michael has FIVE brothers...and some had children with white women. It is easy to see, how the features evened out. He is not an only child.....

Michael's children seem to look 1/4 African American, especially the son. If they truly, truly, looked white. There would be no debate.

Just because Michael doesn't come out and say it, doesn't mean the debate has to continue.

They look like Jacksons as well. Regardless of hue, you do not adopt or procure random children(*cough*Tom Cruise****cough**Lionel Richie**) and either one of them begins to look slightly or strongly like members of your family or resembling yourself. Perhaps he got a mixed race family member to be the donor...who knows.. Doesn't really matter, he's the father, and people with common sense should be able to come to a common sense answer, and ignore the pitter patter.
[Edited 6/6/09 18:19pm]
[Edited 6/6/09 18:23pm]

DesireeNevermind said:

lady, i never said that those were Michael's kids.

People will defend this, and defend this, but if it was anyone else BUT Michael, they either wouldn't be interested, or wouldn't buy into comments made by Michael, media, and fans. No one is questioning them because of their color. If they were pale, with features like their cousins nothing would be said.

Some people have the inability, to step away from the celebritism, and just think...and find their own logical answers...

-----
is this supposed to be him? Where did he write: THis is a drawing of ME.

MJ never whore earrings and on his Thriller drawings he captured his looks quite correctly.
-----
No where does he says that is him. It actually looks like Captain HOOK.
[Edited 6/6/09 18:17pm]

laurarichardson said:

I'm sorry you believe this. If Michael didn't want anything to do with the African American community....then
My question, what obliteration of his roots, and when did this take place? When has he not embraced the black community? And how did he go about it?

What was it than, when he was in his youth, throwing the black power fist in the air along side his brothers in the Jackson 5?

What was it than, when it is a fact that Michael Jackson is the single most donor of the Negro College Fund?

What was it than, that Michael Jackson’s inspiration and idol since his adolescence was James Brown, who wrote the lyrics “Say it loud / I’m black and proud”? [1] [2] [3] [4]

What was it than, when he firmly corrected critics that he was never influenced, phased or emulated Elvis Presley? Why was his [The Jacksons] song title ‘Heartbreak Hotel’ renamed to ‘This Place Hotel’ citing in his autobiography, Jackson reveals that he was not a fan of Presley, and it did not enter his mind? [1]

What was it than, Michael Jackson doing being good friends with Nelson Mandella?

What was it than, inspiring and embracing the black youth and adults during the height of his popularity [Thriller] of what accomplishments an African-American as young as he can accomplish? [1]

What was it than, that took the risk in buying The Beatles catalog, something he was severely criticized for ever since, including Sir. Paul McCartney (despite his admittance that he gave Jackson the idea into music publishing) insinuating he has no right, as a black man, to own such catalogs? Stepping out of his place? Being a threat? How long has it been where these detractors have made it their business to take this away from him? Spread false lies that he no longer has them because he is in financial struggle?

What was it than, Michael Jackson visiting Africa several times, spending his time in orphanages, hospitals and other places among the poor? What was it than, Michael Jackson being crowned a King in the small village of Senegal, Africa in 1992? [1] [2] [3]

What was it than, Michael Jackson dedicated one of his eight Grammy awards in 1984 to the recent passing of Jackie Wilson? [1]

What was it than, Michael Jackson giving Little Richard his publishing back when acquiring the SONY/ATV catalog? [1]

What was it than, when Michael Jackson attended James Brown’s funeral in 2006 when many black artists couldn’t be bothered? [1] [2]

What was it than, when Michael Jackson sang ‘You Were There’ to Sammy Davis Jr. during a tribute performance in 1990? [1]

Why was it than, when he is repeatedly given NAACP Image awards? [1] [2] [3]

What was it than, when Michael Jackson portrayed ancient Egyptians as African Americans with their natural hair in his music video, ‘Remember The Time’ in 1992, which was directed by John Singleton? [1] [2]

What was it than, when Michael Jackson invited busloads of disadvantaged and/or underprivileged black children and their families from the inner cities to visit his home Neverland Ranch Valley, to experience a place outside their homes — people who’ve never seen anything outside their doorstep? Or the donation of textbooks to their schools? [1]

What was it than, the burned down churches that Michael Jackson helped pay rebuild?

What was it than, his attendance of Barry White’s funeral, who’s passing went virtually unnoticed? [1] [2] What was it than, his attendance of Johnnie Cochran’s funeral? [1] [2] What was it than, his payment of one of the members of the Temptations funeral who could not afford it?

No, really. What was it? When and why did this take place, and why haven’t I been notified of this occurrence? When did Michael Jackson make it his business to stray away from his African American roots? When was it, Michael Jackson suddenly woke up one day and decided he wanted to be white? It certainly wasn’t for popularity or success; he already had international worldwide appeal and the biggest selling album of all time [Thriller] when he was visibly brown skin. Was it the nose that sealed the deal in your mind?

Or was it his skin progressively becoming lighter, for reasons you did not bother to understand or investigate why or HOW was this possible? Surely if a self hating black person were to be able to obtain a product to ‘lighten’ their skin, the world would produce at least ONE person who has done this as well? Michael Jackson is whiter than a white person; a porcelain white shade. What would be the purpose or goal of that procedure (had this been scientifically possible without having some sort of skin disorder depigmentation) of being this pale? Of being accused of turning away from his race, and having to ‘make up’ some faux disease excuse? (Katt Williams, pay attention. And if Paul Mooney can see through the child molestation case, and you can’t, there may be something wrong with you?).

Please tell me and explain in full detail the timeline and motive Michael Jackson had as you put as an ‘obliteration’ of his African American roots? In spite of some odd 3 years later written article, that is.

And lastly, one quote:

Of all his travels, he says his most emotional and moving experiences came in travels in Dakar, Senegal. “I’m going to raise my hand (to God) on this one,” he lit up like a light. “I always thought that Blacks, as far as artistry, were the most talented race on earth. But when I went to Africa, I was even more convinced. They do incredible things over there….They got the beats and the rhythm. I really see where drums come from. It makes you think that all Blacks have rhythm…I don’t want the Blacks to ever forget that this is where we come from and where our music comes from. And if we forget, it (Black history) would really get lost. I want us to remember.”

JET Interview–August 16, 1979

http://floacist.wordpress...ack-again/

^ Why are you still posting? People likely aren't going to read it, and most people already hold their opinions about Michael. People's views on him seem to be almost as strong as some hold their political opinions. Just let it go.

or what about the fact that he has donated to many African American and minority charities?

http://whoismichael.com/c...fforts.htm

Numerous books on Black culture and Black women


-or that fact that his sister Janet says that he has Vitiligo and other members of her family have it?



Talks about it around 6:50.

- what about the beat it video that focuses on gangs which plagues African American and hispanic communities?

-or the bad video/short film that focuses on black youth in the ghetto and the stereotypes of those who try to get out?

I guess it must be the plastic surgery then. Hey, why don't we accuse white women of not appreciating the race since they tan themselves half to death and get lip injections? I mean don't all white women have fair skin and thin lips? White people come in different shades too.

sunsetdriver1999 said:

I was just trying to have a friendly debate. I just wanted to provide some insight.

What does this have to do with his children looking like Donna Summer's grandchildren? Not much..


People are going to have their opinions. At the end of the day, as long as no one is harassing the children, and all goes well, it matters little.... We don't know how Michael is raising them, and if they later identify, as African American or black, what is there to be said? Nothing.

Posting on and on about Michael's giving back to the African American community though, isn't going to silence, or thrawt his critics.

Just because someone is critical, doesn't mean their ignorant.

Also, it is not impossible that Michael HIMSELF changed how he thought, and grew, or matured, or grew more comfortable in his own skin? How are we to know. We do know, that Blanket came later on....Michael seemed to have stopped dying the older one's hair etc....his behavior changed...and who he associated himself with changed as well. Michael became even more political, and open about being black in America. I don't particularly attach myself completely to this line of argument, but its a plausible one....and he certainly wouldn't be alone. Don't pretend that he would be alone, because we all know he wouldn't be...people change...and just because you change, doesn't mean you should regret decisions you made, and especially not regret having your children, regardless of the situation surrounding their birth. Michael owes no one any explanations about his "marriage"/arrangement, whatever you wish to call it with DW, except perhaps his children if they ever do ask, in time....

People don't seem to see, that Michael changed a lot in a short period of time, can you imagine the Michael of the 80s, or very early 90s, openly associating with the Nation? Or "protesting" evil record companies? Speaking openly about Jack Johnson? Or finally appearing to no longer care about people's opinions of him? Some simply say self interest, and move on. But Michael the man, and not just the public image, but the man in general, seems to have changed, at least in the ways he is comfortable presenting himself, and to me it seems personally as well. Michael has embraced his blackness, his age, his fatherhood, and his status in the world quite well.....

And for those who don't believe those are Michael's biological children, and please don't pretend they don't have reason to(it would be different if there were no Blanket-), (so please don't pretend they are simply insensitive, rude, or malicious), or believe he was trying to prevent the future world from having a "mini-Michael", there is Evan Ross, and Blanket...not to mention nephews and cousins, that bear his face...we can all breathe....

Oh, and to add...they are all Michael's children. He feeds them, clothes them, and takes them to bookstores. That's a father. They will be raised by Michael, and will likely have his mannerisms, and similar vocal tones... I'm sure he's teaching them to moonwalk....
[Edited 6/6/09 18:51pm]

At the end of the day, Michael's raising them kids REGARDLESS so they have a DADDY even with HIS history. This thread has to stop overloading with off-topic b.s. I don't even wanna nWo this one. Some sensitive folks in this bitch. People can believe what they wanna believe, we all got opinions, got damn, lol.

^ Don't be upset.

P+P+B will be 28. 25, and 20 or whatever, and there will be new pictures saying "Jacko's kids UNMASKED"....and people will keep speculating...

They've been "unmasked" at least a half a dozen times by now...
[Edited 6/6/09 19:05pm]

sunsetdriver1999 said:

Good point.

Timmy84 said:

yep....They'll have their own damn kids thirty years from now...

and we'll still be seeing those headlines....

sunsetdriver1999 said:

Talking about "well since Prince finally left his father's house, he's dropped the masks!" GTFOOH! You know how the media is anyway.

sunsetdriver1999 said:

Yep yep about Sally Hemmings. I think Tom Cruise's baby is a clone of Katie. When you have that much money, like MJ and Tom, you can do anything. Nobody is saying he's not their father in terms of raising them, but this thread is about the question of biological paternity. Why people gotta get so sensitive about him? He kind of feeds this crap because of the way he's gone about procuring kids and then taking them out in public wearing masks. Those kids are going to grow up with a complex. Very sad.

DesireeNevermind said:

That's how these kind of threads turn out to be. I mean you don't actually have to be a biological father to be proven to be the dad. I mean I heard so many stories of biological fathers not paying child support and not even wanting to see their child. And here we have a man who the media questions his paternity and yet we hear reports he's a good dad. So regardless of DNA makeup, he IS their father. Bottom line even if he DID adopt them from Debbie. I mean BIG DEAL.

sunsetdriver1999 said:

none of them had children with white woman that might have been light latinas but they were not white and all of them were definately darker than debbie rowe