In the end, substance prevails over fads, any day.

CelibateMushroomCanopy said:

No, I don't have any guilt. I'm a woman, first and foremost. So I've dealt with oppression. Just because I am white doesn't mean I haven't been through anything. Other minorities feel like they can be so openly racist especially when it comes to whites. It's a double standard. There's a lot more to the story then meets the eye.

Mstrustme said:

i know what you're saying but it's just the same for white artists who make
good, honest music. if you don't fit into a box they won't sign you and if
they do decide to sign you they will make sure they ruin you by your third
album because they will leach all the personality and honesty out of you in
favor of making a quick buck.

your post seems to suggest though that it's all the way down to "white" folk
that rap is in the state it is in now.

i don't blame record companies for the way pop rock music sounds these days,
i blame the artists. they're the ones who signed the deals and sold out just
as well. it's not like the labels are holding a gun to anyone's head and are
forcing them to play something they hate. they are however threatening with
not releasing a product that isn't commercial enough, which means no pay for
the artist. if you bow down to that, you make your own bed imo.

white or black. there are people who won't sign a stupid contract and who
don't need a flashy image but just write and play good music be it under
a contract or independent.

Let's get back to the music. I think techno and electronica elements will blend in with hip hop, like it's already happening and even more. Something like kanye's 808 & heartbreaks album.

IstenSzek said:

- You are correct and I agree w/ you on most. There are many who will water-down their craft to make some bucks. I made the comments I did because of what the article was talking about and because someone had commented on black artists "cooning" for the white audience

- A difference between you and I is that I don't leave the record companies void of blame; unfortunately not everyone has the balls to do a Dave Chapelle

- In regards to white folk and rap, I was just reiterating a statement Billie Holiday even said; when they realized they could make $$$ off of jazz, they come out of the woodworks to milk it for all it was worth

alphastreet said:

i think kanye's album sounds great. i don't like all the songs but the
sound of it is great.

also loved things like q-tips kamaal the abstract album, that was just
great.

but a lot of people, just think of common or mos def, have been doing
rap/hip hop that is challenging and very cool.

it's just the stuff you see on mtv over and over and over again that's
been drained of originality and all sounds the same.

Mstrustme said:

well yes, that is absolutely true. it's been like that for far too long now.
and the influence of companies over artists seems to have been getting more
and more restrictive.

at least in the days of jazz the music didn't seem to suffer as much or as
profoundly as it does in these days. even in the 80s there was still a lot
of original and honest acts around.

i guess right now there are more "true" artists out there than ever but you
have to go look for them on their own myspace sites since the labels seem to
be concerned with little more than their cash cows and re-packaged stuff they
already sold us last year.

IstenSzek said:

MuthaFunka said:

doin' the head wiggle they all used to do and shit

bboy87 said:

MuthaFunka said:

Heckes no I never done that! I was the one playing "This Is My Night" in class.

paisleypark4 said:

Since white kids' interest was the record labels' main purpose in promoting shit hop to the point of keeping any other form of more expensive black music out, it would thrill the hell out of me to see the white kids lose interest in it.

However, these white kids haven't lost interest in shit hop. They've just stopped buying it because now they can download it for free. I think it's only fitting though. The record labels forced everything else out so they could sell the cheapest product available and now the consumers are obtaining their music the cheapest way possible....for free. The punishment definately fits the crime.

As for black people, the consumers that have always made the record labels the most money have been the white consumers. That's why record labels were no longer satisfied with the money they were making off of black artists when R&B was funk in the early 1980s and the majority of it's consumers were black. When they saw they could get a black artist like Shitney Houston who could water their music down enough that not only would white people like it, but their parents also, they became money hungry and completely stopped caring about the quality of music. And then when they saw that white kids liked shit hop which was extremely cheap, the labels had a field day. It's been about greed all along. But the problem is, even if the white kids finally lost interest in shit hop, they have now raised an entire generation of black kids also who have grown up on nothing but shit hop their entire lifetime because there has never been a style change in their entire lifespan. Even if white kids lost interest, now there is an entire generation of black kids who have absolutely no imagination to come up with something else. And even if they did, it would have to be something cheap because the record labels are only going to promote something cheap.

[quote]

MuthaFunka said:

And as more and more black kids started immitating and living this music with violence and death, these white kids could immitate it from their nice safe suburb and the only problems they encountered was "my mummy and daddy don't like me acting 'black'".

vainandy said:

hehe

to be honest vainandy, I really do see things changing the way you want them to

I normally would agree with you because I definately have encountered a few black people in my lifetime that act like if it's raining outside, it's the white man's fault. However, in this case, it's true. Those white owned monopolies promoted this shit and kept everything else out in the process just so they could make the biggest profit available. They didn't care if the quality of black music in general was lowered and they also didn't care if the violent images caused more crime just as long as they made their money and their white kids could listen to it from their nice safe neighborhoods.



That's true but do you think they would even get a record deal from these huge labels if they didn't come out looking and sounding like a fool? That's what the labels wanted and what they pushed.



Greed, ignorance, and having no taste comes in all colors, not just white. But the black owned companies are far less than the white owned ones which are major.



They sure do. Hell, they've never had a style change in R&B music in their entire lifetime. All they know is bullshit because that's all they've ever been exposed to. It's not like the days when I was growing up and there was a drastic style change every five years or so. This shit hop bullshit has dominated for damn near 20 years.



I'm white and I say it's the white man's fault (white man meaning label and radio owners). I was saying that even before shit hop. I was saying that in the Shitney Houston crossover days a few years earlier. The problem is that music becomes watered down if you try to please all audiences with it. I mean, hell, with Shitney, they were even trying to please the grandmothers.
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[Edited 5/26/09 14:38pm]

Let me start by saying I'm offended by this. But then again, someone just pissed all over my beloved Hip Hop. Now the response:

Who told people that Hip Hop was for sale? IT'S NOT. I’ll allow many people saying otherwise to continue being wrong. Rap sales declined like all music sales. Is it because it is no longer a staple in American popular culture? Hardly. It’s because an art form that used to showcase skill, has been reduced to nothing more than a cheap pick-me-up for people who are easily fooled. It’s a mere escape for people who hate their own lives so much that they believe what these rappers say is gospel. This was never supposed to happen. It was once an outlet that helped silent voices get heard. The ignorance of the people so eager to dismiss it, has returned just to watch it suffer.

Rap music was essentially raped for all it was worth and left to die by greedy record executives. Those being raped often object when revenue isn't plentiful, NEVER when they‘re being moderately-generously compensated for their participation. Meanwhile, the artist's artist (the writer for the sake of writing something meaningful) is told his/her story isn't marketable. As if every poet longing to be published is not a writer because their words aren't in print. That is where you piss me off, as a lyricist. I don't write songs for white folks amusement (or anyone‘s amusement), like this article suggests. I write because it’s my passion. I write raps because words, manipulation, timing, and rhyming bring me pleasure. I could care less if people who don’t even understand my music bought it. I write for those who can’t say the things that I will. Most of the more popular rappers don’t. So saying that “white kids are no longer fooled” is not only in poor taste, but it completely showcases your personal lack of knowledge.

I don’t hear such accusations about any other genre of music. No real MC, lyricist or rapper says, “Finally a chance to sell millions of records to white kids who have no clue what the hell I’m talking about”. Before it became a get rich quick scheme, it was done out of genuine love for the craft, and still, by some, a means to getting paid. Those rappers were the ones that Hip Hop enthusiasts often ridiculed and publicly denounced for disrespecting the origins of the culture. While record execs could give a damn about what the b-boys and girls have to say, the true Hip Hop heads are not Soulja Boy fans.* [*Sidenote: Speaking for myself, I loathe Soulja Boy as a rapper. He’s not good for Hip Hop, and serves as a prime example of one of the recording industry’s many puppets. His songs are nonsensical and he’s completely in it for the money. His music has no purpose, cause, meaning and is hardly enjoyable. Far from unique, his fame stems directly from the lemmings, I mean fans who don’t expect more from someone paid to perform his material. It’s tasteless, mind-numbing, chant based, poorly organized garbage transmitted via satellite radio and online. Lyrically he doesn’t even attempt to prove any of what I’m saying wrong. He merely suggests that those who criticize him are jealous haters. Could they ever be RIGHT? Not according to him.]

How dare people boil it down to “it’s not amusing to white folks anymore”. That’s a slap in the face to a little girl from PG County who has loved Hip Hop and Prince for all 21 years of her life. I have never disliked any form of music for as little as people claim to HATE Rap (Hip Hop to those uneducated in the difference). This author must have either written this for shock value, or to fill empty space. Certainly, I will not put my pen down. Since it’s beginning, the detractors have been there. Now weakened, Hip Hop has to prove it will not become the new “disco”. I pray (figuratively, God has bigger fish to fry) that the artists who write because they are compelled to share something within, gain control of their music. It shouldn’t be this way. Why should elderly, rich record company executives be able to tell me “people like me aren’t interested in hearing songs by someone like me”? And what makes them so sure that other races are so worked up to hear “Turn My Swag On”? There opinion on music they can’t make, relate to, or criticize is complete BS, so take it with a grain of salt.

If these “big names” allow the door to shut on the only ones trying to keep the art alive, what will be left? We’ll have to live with hearing what ever happened to *insert rap LEGEND’s name*? I’m determined to keep it going. And though digital media is killing off the hardcopy, I will push and press on for those who wait for their favorite rapper’s latest CD. I am that kid who wants to be like her favorite rapper, because he does something impressive. I’m not the kid who raps because they thought college was too hard, or getting a job wasn’t cool enough. I’m a lyricist. So to hell with this article. Real rappers don’t try to get sales, they make the music that they love. I’m one of many.

Peace, Hip Hop, & Purple Rain

Gangsta Cru… The Lady and the Lyricist

BoOTyLiCioUs said:

I remember seeing a video in the early 90s by Ice Cube and he was spitting out hate for black men that date white women and throwing people that he considered sellouts such as MC Hammer in the trunk of a car. I wondered why the hell a white person would listen to something like that and why didn't it offend the white label owners, but then I realized, they agree with those rappers...yeah, don't date a white woman....yeah, stay with a "sista" only....That's exactly what a racist white person would want to hear because it just irritates the hell out of them to see a white woman with a black man and "staying with your own kind" is the same thing they want also. And as for the hatred against them by some black people, hell they don't care because they don't like them either and don't want to be around them, they just want to be entertained by them.
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[Edited 5/26/09 14:56pm]

GangstaCru said:

I feel what you're saying. I think hip-hop in the commercial sense has been muddled for so many years. The mainstream knows it can or could sell off the ignorance of some rappers while other rappers, who don't go for sales as you say, are never ever heard in the mainstream but accepted in the underground and would rather remain that way.

vainandy said:

Yep!

paisleypark4 said:

U essentially agreed with my points...lol

murph said:

I was..I should have taken the 'but' out there...

TonyVanDam said:

YEAH IT ALL AMERICAN IDOL AND QUICK BUCK!

NOBODY GIVING ARTIST TIME TO GROW

Lets be real here, the music industry in this case is not being deceitful, they are clearly promoting this music by young artists to young people.
Its young people music, does that limit their audience? Their sales?...there you have it.

What does it take to have older artists create good music? To have them sell?
I dont think the music industry knows or is to fault, Prince sucked when he became a 30-something, Paul McCartney Sucked when he turned 30-something, Stevie Wonder sucked when he turned 30-something.....I could keep going but I’m going to offend a lot more people so I'll stop there.

Let’s not blame anybody but the consumer who ultimately makes the choices that drive the music industry. (to the ground)
[Edited 5/26/09 18:39pm]

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

YEAH FORGET OLD GUY

AMERICAN IDOL WHERE IT AT

POOK said:

Dont look at me, I buy the old guys new and back catalogs.
Maybe cause I'm old myself.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

POOK KID

METALLICA STILL GOT IT

COUNTRY FAN ALWAYS COUNT ON GEORGE STRAIT

POOK SEE SONNY ROLLINS FEW YEAR AGO

SONNY LIKE EIGHT HUNDRED YEAR OLD

HOLY COW SONNY CAN BLOW!

POOK said:

POOK SMART!

Could it be that the hip hop releases are getting bootlegged to high hell?

Not to mention that people are releasing free mixtapes more often now

vainandy said:

Ice Cube -- Be True To The Game




It's the nigga ya love to hate with a new song
So what really goes on
Nothing but a come-up, but ain't that a bitch
They hate to see a young nigga rich
But I refuse to switch even though
Cause I can't move to the snow
Cause soon as y'all get some dough
Ya wanna put a white bitch on your elbow
Moving out your neighborhood
But I walk through the ghetto and the flavor's good
Little kids jumping on me
But you, you wanna be white and corny
Living way out
"Nigger go home" spray-painted on your house
Trying to be White or a Jew
But ask yourself, who are they to be equal to?
Get the hell out
Stop being an Uncle Tom, you little sell-out
House nigga scum
Give something back to the place where you made it from
Before you end up broke
Fuck around and get your ghetto pass revoked
I ain't saying no names, you know who you are
You little punk, be true to the game

[BREAK]


When you first start rhyming
It started off slow and then you start climbing
But it wasn't fast enough I guess
So you gave your other style a test
You was hardcore hip-hop
Now look at yourself, boy you done flip-flopped
Giving our music away to the mainstream
Don't you know they ain't down with the team
They just sent they boss over
Put a bug in your ear and now you crossed over
On MTV but they don't care
They'll have a new nigga next year
You out in the cold
No more white fans and no more soul
And you might have a heart attack
When you find out the black folks don't want you back
And you know what's worse?
You was just like the nigga in the first verse
Stop selling out your race
And wipe that stupid-ass smile off your face
Niggas always gotta show they teeth
Now I'm a be brief
Be true to the game

[BREAK]


A message to the oreo cookie
Find a mirror and take a look, G
Do you like what you see?
But you're quick to point the finger at me
You wanna be the big fish, you little guppy
Black man can't be no yuppie
You put on your suit and tie and your big clothes
You don't associate with the Negroes
You wanna be just like Jack
But Jack is calling you a nigga behind your back
So back off genius
I don't need you to correct my broken English
You know that's right
You ain't white
So stop holding your ass tight
Cause you can't pass
So why you keep trying to pass?
With your black ass
Mister Big
But in reality, you're shorter than a midge
You only got yourself to blame
Get a grip, oreo and be true to the game

SIDENOTE: Notice I only highlighted the 1st verse, such it's that part of the song that is the most controversial.