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PrintableThe only time he appeared feminine to me was during the Human Nature performance from the Dangerous Tour. That's about it.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...6kA9IkuSvc But other than that. He's not really a feminine dancer. | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: unique said: 
am i the only person, who seriously thinks that MJ is homosexual, and that's part of his problems, in that he is frustrated through being stuck firmly in the closet? now hear me out, as i'm being completely serious here, all jokes aside, i'm interested in hearing what you lot have to say on this throughout his life, think about all the photos you've seen with MJ, and you will see that very rarely is he pictured with other women. there are so many pix of him with kids, and you'll also notice that most of the kids are boys, and not girls. his only two well known relationships were with elvis's daughter, a marriage that lasted 2 years, in which she understandably says little about, although it's understood she married him to help him stop his drug abuse, as well as divert attention from his child abuse case with jordan chandler. his second short lived marriage to debbie rowe wasn't consumated, and she says she didn't ever sleep with him. that's pretty unusual for a homosexual male, don't you think? i mentioned some of this before, and if you think about becoming a teenager and young adult with hormones raging, you naturally lust for sexual satisfaction, and hetrosexual males in particular will try to have sex with girls as much as possible. being in the position that MJ is in, being a good looking and famous young adult, he could probably have the pick of the girls, but you just don't hear anything about any girls, and girls who date celebrities are well known for kissing and telling, the bigger the celebrity, the more kiss and tell stories you will hear. but you don't hear any about MJ if you have a look at his dress sense, and the way he moves on stage, it's far from typical of a hetrosexual male, and if you watch the live concerts where he participates with females, such as the way you make me feel, he doesn't really look like he is that interested. in fact when tatiana kissed him onstage once during that song, she was shortly fired and replaced with another model he's been single for many years now, and although he's not the man he used to be, surely someone of his status would have no real problem finding a female partner. after being single and alone for so long, surely he must be lonely and want for a partner, so why don't you ever hear about him dating women? one of his best known relationships was with a chimpanzee, who slept in the same bedroom as him at home and in his hotel whilst on tour. not exactly the typical babe magnet is it? perhaps "in the closet" is a subtle hint of his sexuality, perhaps he one day hoped to come out of the closet, but in the light of his child abuse cases it's not been considered the most appropriate thing to do. can you just imagine the flack if he openely came out before his last child abuse court appearances? perhaps his religions, from jehovas witness to muslim have also played a part in this, and his strict abusive upbringing. his mother and father may look down on homosexuality and that's caused him to repress his true feelings, which in turn have caused him to change his appearance, to a more feminine form (tattood eyeliner and lips etc). he has spoken about his own child abuse from his father when he was younger, and sometimes that can affect someones sexuality. it's also common for those abused as children to go on to become abusers of children themselves. he has openly admitted sleeping with young boys and feels there is no wrong with it, which is a very unusual thing not only to do, but to openly admit, especially for a hetrosexual male. now, whilst most would consider the act of sleeping with a young boy to be child abuse itself, even if he did nothing else other than simply share a bed with a young boy, it doesn't sound like the kind of thing that any hetrosexual male would do. in fact normally hetrosexual males would keep a distance towards any form of intimacy towards another male in that way, so to openly admit doing so in a television interview is particularly strange. perhaps that was another attempt at trying to come out, but then the closet door was slammed back shut harder than before when he was involved in a further child abuse case now, without taking the piss, joking and passing insults, can we please discuss this in a serious manner? 
i've posted a couple of pix in order to help explain what i mean a bit better Being physically abused as a child does not effect one’s sexuality. Being sexually abused does. There is no proof or knowledge that Michael has been sexually abused. And being gay does not equate to being a pedofile. Have you ever thought of the idea that Michael was waiting until marriage to have sex due to his religion? And maybe he was so busy with his career that he didn’t have time to think about it? Or maybe the fact that he’s so selective about what females he dates because he’s worried about the fact that maybe they wanna be with me because I’m Michael Jackson and not because of my personality? His love life is nobody’s business except if he is doing something illegal and immoral. Let me tell you this, I haven’t had sex in a year and 7 months. Why? Because I don’t have time to think about it. I was so busy with school and work. Now since I graduated, I’m concretrating on getting a career job in my field and getting out on my own. Sex is not a pritority of mine. My future is. As for waiting until you are married to have sex, I was all for it. I’m not a virgin but I still wish I was…to an extent it’s not my fault since I was raped my first time. It’s not worth sleeping around. It’s just not worth it unless you really care about the person. of course being gay doesn't make you a peadophile, and being a peadophile doesn't mean you are gay, and being abused doesn't mean you will abuse others what i'm saying is that it's common for abusers to have been abused when they were kids. MJ has been involved in two major child abuse cases, and himself was abused as a child. he follows a common pattern. this is standard psychological profiling now i presume you aren't male, thus don't know what it's like to go through male puberty and move through teenage life, but let me tell you, hormones rage like wildfire and sexual desire drives you. whilst perhaps some guys may try and avoid temptation as they are deeply religious, i doubt that's the case with MJ as he gave up his religeon, which isn't something you would do if you were a strong follower. if he was saving himself until marriage, why didn't he consumate his marraige with debbie rowe? if he was so concerned about the religious aspect of marriage, surely he would have consummated the marriage even if he was gay? why marry someone if you don't want to consumate the marriage? it just doesn't make sense for him to have married her. considering she never see's her kids, it doesn't make sense for him to have married her so the children couldn't be thought of as bastards. they have one of the most unusual lifestyles as it is, so what difference does it matter if he was married to their mother. he wasn't married to the mother of the last child and whilst it's understandable that people may want to keep relationships quiet at the early stages, so as not to tempt fate or add more difficulties to building a relationship, most people in love want to be open about it and want people to know they are in love and be happy. and whilst i'm not a woman myself, and fuck knows what the fuck goes on inside a womans head, one thing i have learned is that if you don't tell people you are dating the woman, she will go fucking batshit crazy he could be very picky when it comes to choosing woman, but in his entire life the only two women we really know he had a relationship with in 50 years is elvis daughter, and debbie rowe. the fact that he married her is all the evidence you need that he isn't picky in choosing women. i'm sure she has a nice personality, but she's hardly anyones dream woman. if there was ever a woman that you didn't want the world to know about, it would be her. the fact that he had a high profile marraige with lisa marie and another with debbie doesn't suggest that he is one to keep relationships a secret does anyone have any real explanation as to why he would marry debbie btw? | |
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whatsgoingon said: bboy87 said: you know, I've never understood why people go out of their ways to bash and talk shit about an artist they don't even like
I mean, making essays and long posts....not to mention NEVER seing them in other artists....other THREADS for that matter, but they always tend to show up in the same threads about that one particular artist to simply bash that artist why waste your time like that? but hey, do you, if that's what makes you happy..... anyway, I'm outta here 
[Edited 5/25/09 12:43pm] There you go, getting all defensive and sensitive again!! Most people here ain't exactly talking crap about Michael, they are making a lot of valid points. I use to be a much greater fan of MJ than I am now, but even when I was at my most fanatical i knew mJ had issues and it wasn't all down to the media and conspiracy. I became a fan of mj when he was stil a member of the J5 well before OTW let alone Thriller. It's more painful than anything to see this once gorgeous man who had so much talent and the world eating out of his hand to practically lose everything that made him so special. and there you go, replying to something that wasn't even about you 
I wasn't even talking about you. I'm not defensive or getting sensitive. I simply said I don't see the reason why SOME people even post in a thread about an artist you don't even like or respect? Did I mention you? No. So what was the point? "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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suga10 said: novabrkr said: Don't know about that. In the very few interviews he gave during his late teens and early adulthood he was already saying pretty strange stuff to his interviewers (and was already speaking about how "magical" children were etc.). He was speaking in that ridiculously high-pitched voice, which definitely wasn't that high naturally. He already had developed most of what came to characterize his persona, sans the detoriation of his looks that came later due to whatever problems he really has had. Well I'm sure he had issues back then, but he was still doing relatively okay overall. He didn't have all this crap going on back with lawsuits and everything, and he wasn't in that big of a mess like he is now. That's really what I was trying to say. But I'm just wondering if there was some sort of huge trigger point that just completely made him go off the rails- b/c something clearly went off big time around 1984-1986, when the plastic surgery started increasing more than ever, and the Peter-Pan behavior came into huge play. Was it going through a traumatic experience like the Pepsi fire accident, and the recovery stages, was it Vitiligo?? [Edited 5/25/09 13:52pm] Michael always had problems before Thriller. I believe he always struggled with his looks…all of his life and developed Body Dysmorphic Disorder. I think the vitiligo and pepsi accident changed him. One was a near death situation while the other one is horrible to deal with especially as a black man. I think people would be different if they had the success that he’s had with thriller and in his career. Being the most famous person in the world and not having any privacy has got to be tough to deal with. I think these problems came more out in the open when Michael became the most famous man on earth…they didn’t just appear with Thriller…they had been going on for years. | |
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unique said: BoOTyLiCioUs said: Being physically abused as a child does not effect one’s sexuality. Being sexually abused does. There is no proof or knowledge that Michael has been sexually abused. And being gay does not equate to being a pedofile. Have you ever thought of the idea that Michael was waiting until marriage to have sex due to his religion? And maybe he was so busy with his career that he didn’t have time to think about it? Or maybe the fact that he’s so selective about what females he dates because he’s worried about the fact that maybe they wanna be with me because I’m Michael Jackson and not because of my personality? His love life is nobody’s business except if he is doing something illegal and immoral. Let me tell you this, I haven’t had sex in a year and 7 months. Why? Because I don’t have time to think about it. I was so busy with school and work. Now since I graduated, I’m concretrating on getting a career job in my field and getting out on my own. Sex is not a pritority of mine. My future is. As for waiting until you are married to have sex, I was all for it. I’m not a virgin but I still wish I was…to an extent it’s not my fault since I was raped my first time. It’s not worth sleeping around. It’s just not worth it unless you really care about the person. of course being gay doesn't make you a peadophile, and being a peadophile doesn't mean you are gay, and being abused doesn't mean you will abuse others what i'm saying is that it's common for abusers to have been abused when they were kids. MJ has been involved in two major child abuse cases, and himself was abused as a child. he follows a common pattern. this is standard psychological profiling now i presume you aren't male, thus don't know what it's like to go through male puberty and move through teenage life, but let me tell you, hormones rage like wildfire and sexual desire drives you. whilst perhaps some guys may try and avoid temptation as they are deeply religious, i doubt that's the case with MJ as he gave up his religeon, which isn't something you would do if you were a strong follower. if he was saving himself until marriage, why didn't he consumate his marraige with debbie rowe? if he was so concerned about the religious aspect of marriage, surely he would have consummated the marriage even if he was gay? why marry someone if you don't want to consumate the marriage? it just doesn't make sense for him to have married her. considering she never see's her kids, it doesn't make sense for him to have married her so the children couldn't be thought of as bastards. they have one of the most unusual lifestyles as it is, so what difference does it matter if he was married to their mother. he wasn't married to the mother of the last child and whilst it's understandable that people may want to keep relationships quiet at the early stages, so as not to tempt fate or add more difficulties to building a relationship, most people in love want to be open about it and want people to know they are in love and be happy. and whilst i'm not a woman myself, and fuck knows what the fuck goes on inside a womans head, one thing i have learned is that if you don't tell people you are dating the woman, she will go fucking batshit crazy he could be very picky when it comes to choosing woman, but in his entire life the only two women we really know he had a relationship with in 50 years is elvis daughter, and debbie rowe. the fact that he married her is all the evidence you need that he isn't picky in choosing women. i'm sure she has a nice personality, but she's hardly anyones dream woman. if there was ever a woman that you didn't want the world to know about, it would be her. the fact that he had a high profile marraige with lisa marie and another with debbie doesn't suggest that he is one to keep relationships a secret does anyone have any real explanation as to why he would marry debbie btw? you didn't read what i wrote. Again i said that Being physically abused as a child does not effect one’s sexuality. Being sexually abused does. There is no proof or knowledge that Michael has been sexually abused. | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: novabrkr said: There's absolutely nothing "gay" about the way Michael Jackson moves on stage.
He has always been one of the very few male danceers that have managed to develop a completely masculine body language when performing. One of the reasons why he became so big back in the day is that he presented a way of dancing that was far removed from the more "effeminate moves" that most professional dancers were accustomed to perform (think of West Side Story, if needed a popular example - or just compare him to Prince, who is a whole lot "gayer" dancer than Michael Jackson has ever been). His mannerisms might be more "effeminate" or "gay" in real life sometimes, but on stage, not really. You have to realize that the more make-up he started wearing and nire frillies started appearing on his promo shoots, the sharper and more aggressive his body language became at the same time. Nice photo comparison. right, i agree.Right, I agree his dancing is so sexual. A lot of his songs are too as well. Don’t stop till you get enough….hello people!!!! It’s about don’t stop until you reach an orgasm. Working Day and Night is about working to get that kitty cat…haha if ya know what I mean…lol. The way you make me feel could be interpretated as you make me horny lol. If you go back to the 70s he was a completely different dancer, he rarely did any poses. And the grab crotching may have started earlier, but by the time we get to the Bad era he was doing it every 5 seconds. It was like he was doing a parody of himself. | |
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unique said: BoOTyLiCioUs said: Being physically abused as a child does not effect one’s sexuality. Being sexually abused does. There is no proof or knowledge that Michael has been sexually abused. And being gay does not equate to being a pedofile. Have you ever thought of the idea that Michael was waiting until marriage to have sex due to his religion? And maybe he was so busy with his career that he didn’t have time to think about it? Or maybe the fact that he’s so selective about what females he dates because he’s worried about the fact that maybe they wanna be with me because I’m Michael Jackson and not because of my personality? His love life is nobody’s business except if he is doing something illegal and immoral. Let me tell you this, I haven’t had sex in a year and 7 months. Why? Because I don’t have time to think about it. I was so busy with school and work. Now since I graduated, I’m concretrating on getting a career job in my field and getting out on my own. Sex is not a pritority of mine. My future is. As for waiting until you are married to have sex, I was all for it. I’m not a virgin but I still wish I was…to an extent it’s not my fault since I was raped my first time. It’s not worth sleeping around. It’s just not worth it unless you really care about the person. of course being gay doesn't make you a peadophile, and being a peadophile doesn't mean you are gay, and being abused doesn't mean you will abuse others what i'm saying is that it's common for abusers to have been abused when they were kids. MJ has been involved in two major child abuse cases, and himself was abused as a child. he follows a common pattern. this is standard psychological profiling now i presume you aren't male, thus don't know what it's like to go through male puberty and move through teenage life, but let me tell you, hormones rage like wildfire and sexual desire drives you. whilst perhaps some guys may try and avoid temptation as they are deeply religious, i doubt that's the case with MJ as he gave up his religeon, which isn't something you would do if you were a strong follower. if he was saving himself until marriage, why didn't he consumate his marraige with debbie rowe? if he was so concerned about the religious aspect of marriage, surely he would have consummated the marriage even if he was gay? why marry someone if you don't want to consumate the marriage? it just doesn't make sense for him to have married her. considering she never see's her kids, it doesn't make sense for him to have married her so the children couldn't be thought of as bastards. they have one of the most unusual lifestyles as it is, so what difference does it matter if he was married to their mother. he wasn't married to the mother of the last child and whilst it's understandable that people may want to keep relationships quiet at the early stages, so as not to tempt fate or add more difficulties to building a relationship, most people in love want to be open about it and want people to know they are in love and be happy. and whilst i'm not a woman myself, and fuck knows what the fuck goes on inside a womans head, one thing i have learned is that if you don't tell people you are dating the woman, she will go fucking batshit crazy he could be very picky when it comes to choosing woman, but in his entire life the only two women we really know he had a relationship with in 50 years is elvis daughter, and debbie rowe. the fact that he married her is all the evidence you need that he isn't picky in choosing women. i'm sure she has a nice personality, but she's hardly anyones dream woman. if there was ever a woman that you didn't want the world to know about, it would be her. the fact that he had a high profile marraige with lisa marie and another with debbie doesn't suggest that he is one to keep relationships a secret does anyone have any real explanation as to why he would marry debbie btw? I'll make this one my last post in this thread
He married Debbie because Lisa wouldn't his baby. It's been said he found out that Lisa was still on birth control, left and wouldn't talk to her. It was rumored that he told her if she wouldn't have his baby, he would find someone who would, and Debbie was a willing participant
There were other girlfriends like Stephanie Mills, Brooke Shields (yeah, it looks like they actually DID date ) Theresa Gonsalves..."We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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bboy87 said: you know, I've never understood why people go out of their ways to bash and talk shit about an artist they don't even like
I mean, making essays and long posts....not to mention NEVER seing them in other artists....other THREADS for that matter, but they always tend to show up in the same threads about that one particular artist to simply bash that artist why waste your time like that? but hey, do you, if that's what makes you happy..... anyway, I'm outta here i explained all that the other day, you don't need to like a subject to be interested in it or want to discuss it. few people like hitler, but they keep on making movies about him as there is wide interest in him. there is a similar interest in MJ, but the difference with MJ is that there are a lot of people who used to be big MJ fans in the past, but have now moved on to other interests, such as prince, and they can't understand how he could go from number 1 in the charts , to public enemy number 1 plus there are those who are still looking for the pound of flesh over his child abuse cases, and feel a great injustice that he wasn't found guilty, in what seemed to them as a repeat of the OJ murder case the fact is he is a fascinating character, and people want to discuss him, good or bad, and there just isn't much in the way of good news regarding him, but a wealth of bad news, thus any discussion will of course reflect this. he has a long way to go to turn that around, but i don't think it's possible. he could pull of 50 amazing shows, but people still won't be happy. right now even his fans aren't happy about his postponing of shows until next year | |
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bboy87 said: unique said: of course being gay doesn't make you a peadophile, and being a peadophile doesn't mean you are gay, and being abused doesn't mean you will abuse others what i'm saying is that it's common for abusers to have been abused when they were kids. MJ has been involved in two major child abuse cases, and himself was abused as a child. he follows a common pattern. this is standard psychological profiling now i presume you aren't male, thus don't know what it's like to go through male puberty and move through teenage life, but let me tell you, hormones rage like wildfire and sexual desire drives you. whilst perhaps some guys may try and avoid temptation as they are deeply religious, i doubt that's the case with MJ as he gave up his religeon, which isn't something you would do if you were a strong follower. if he was saving himself until marriage, why didn't he consumate his marraige with debbie rowe? if he was so concerned about the religious aspect of marriage, surely he would have consummated the marriage even if he was gay? why marry someone if you don't want to consumate the marriage? it just doesn't make sense for him to have married her. considering she never see's her kids, it doesn't make sense for him to have married her so the children couldn't be thought of as bastards. they have one of the most unusual lifestyles as it is, so what difference does it matter if he was married to their mother. he wasn't married to the mother of the last child and whilst it's understandable that people may want to keep relationships quiet at the early stages, so as not to tempt fate or add more difficulties to building a relationship, most people in love want to be open about it and want people to know they are in love and be happy. and whilst i'm not a woman myself, and fuck knows what the fuck goes on inside a womans head, one thing i have learned is that if you don't tell people you are dating the woman, she will go fucking batshit crazy he could be very picky when it comes to choosing woman, but in his entire life the only two women we really know he had a relationship with in 50 years is elvis daughter, and debbie rowe. the fact that he married her is all the evidence you need that he isn't picky in choosing women. i'm sure she has a nice personality, but she's hardly anyones dream woman. if there was ever a woman that you didn't want the world to know about, it would be her. the fact that he had a high profile marraige with lisa marie and another with debbie doesn't suggest that he is one to keep relationships a secret does anyone have any real explanation as to why he would marry debbie btw? I'll make this one my last post in this thread
He married Debbie because Lisa wouldn't his baby. It's been said he found out that Lisa was still on birth control, left and wouldn't talk to her. It was rumored that he told her if she wouldn't have his baby, he would find someone who would, and Debbie was a willing participant
There were other girlfriends like Stephanie Mills, Brooke Shields (yeah, it looks like they actually DID date ) Theresa Gonsalves...he married debbie just so he could have kids with her, but he wouldn't even sleep with her? wouldn't she just be a surrogate mother or take his sperm without marrying him? he did that with paris/blanket. surely he could have found a better looking mother | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: unique said: of course being gay doesn't make you a peadophile, and being a peadophile doesn't mean you are gay, and being abused doesn't mean you will abuse others what i'm saying is that it's common for abusers to have been abused when they were kids. MJ has been involved in two major child abuse cases, and himself was abused as a child. he follows a common pattern. this is standard psychological profiling now i presume you aren't male, thus don't know what it's like to go through male puberty and move through teenage life, but let me tell you, hormones rage like wildfire and sexual desire drives you. whilst perhaps some guys may try and avoid temptation as they are deeply religious, i doubt that's the case with MJ as he gave up his religeon, which isn't something you would do if you were a strong follower. if he was saving himself until marriage, why didn't he consumate his marraige with debbie rowe? if he was so concerned about the religious aspect of marriage, surely he would have consummated the marriage even if he was gay? why marry someone if you don't want to consumate the marriage? it just doesn't make sense for him to have married her. considering she never see's her kids, it doesn't make sense for him to have married her so the children couldn't be thought of as bastards. they have one of the most unusual lifestyles as it is, so what difference does it matter if he was married to their mother. he wasn't married to the mother of the last child and whilst it's understandable that people may want to keep relationships quiet at the early stages, so as not to tempt fate or add more difficulties to building a relationship, most people in love want to be open about it and want people to know they are in love and be happy. and whilst i'm not a woman myself, and fuck knows what the fuck goes on inside a womans head, one thing i have learned is that if you don't tell people you are dating the woman, she will go fucking batshit crazy he could be very picky when it comes to choosing woman, but in his entire life the only two women we really know he had a relationship with in 50 years is elvis daughter, and debbie rowe. the fact that he married her is all the evidence you need that he isn't picky in choosing women. i'm sure she has a nice personality, but she's hardly anyones dream woman. if there was ever a woman that you didn't want the world to know about, it would be her. the fact that he had a high profile marraige with lisa marie and another with debbie doesn't suggest that he is one to keep relationships a secret does anyone have any real explanation as to why he would marry debbie btw? you didn't read what i wrote. Again i said that Being physically abused as a child does not effect one’s sexuality. Being sexually abused does. There is no proof or knowledge that Michael has been sexually abused. i did read what you said. that's why i clarified with the above. just because there is no proof or knowledge doesn't mean it's not true though. it's something that many people don't like to talk about, and MJ is a secretive person, so do you expect him to tell the world that he was sexually abused as a child, particularly when he has two cases of child sex abuse himself? you probably are never going to find the truth out of him now | |
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unique said: bboy87 said: you know, I've never understood why people go out of their ways to bash and talk shit about an artist they don't even like
I mean, making essays and long posts....not to mention NEVER seing them in other artists....other THREADS for that matter, but they always tend to show up in the same threads about that one particular artist to simply bash that artist why waste your time like that? but hey, do you, if that's what makes you happy..... anyway, I'm outta here i explained all that the other day, you don't need to like a subject to be interested in it or want to discuss it. few people like hitler, but they keep on making movies about him as there is wide interest in him. there is a similar interest in MJ, but the difference with MJ is that there are a lot of people who used to be big MJ fans in the past, but have now moved on to other interests, such as prince, and they can't understand how he could go from number 1 in the charts , to public enemy number 1 plus there are those who are still looking for the pound of flesh over his child abuse cases, and feel a great injustice that he wasn't found guilty, in what seemed to them as a repeat of the OJ murder case the fact is he is a fascinating character, and people want to discuss him, good or bad, and there just isn't much in the way of good news regarding him, but a wealth of bad news, thus any discussion will of course reflect this. he has a long way to go to turn that around, but i don't think it's possible. he could pull of 50 amazing shows, but people still won't be happy. right now even his fans aren't happy about his postponing of shows until next year OJ Simpson is in jail now for 15 years now due to attemped robbery.correction, YOU want to talk about the bad because that's all you ever do when you come in here. | |
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novabrkr said: Uhm, whatever. You probably want to see in those pieces what you yourself want to see (which applies to most anyone in any case). The "Bad" video contains some of the most "ballet" -inspired steps he has ever performed, but it wasn't choreographed by him. I think tou're really just scraping the bottom of the barrel with those remarks, but that's your choice on how you want to present yourself.
I will say though that Michael Jackson is hardly the epitome of a gay performer. His ideas for what a musical spectacle should be like are, frankly speaking, far too childish for that. He has been very safe in the choice of his visuals all throughout his career, give a take a few exceptions (the "You Are Not Alone" video springs to my mind, as well as the original cover for the "Bad" -album). Even with his androgyny he doesn't even seem to be much of a typical crossdresser either, which is something that his face for example would suggest. Either that or he is the only transvestite I've ever known that has an obsession about worn-out loafers and dressing up as a gangster. Now, let's compare these two: That's in an entirely different league, and so was Prince in his earlier days. To say that Prince didn't "appear gay" during the days he wore legwarmers and all of that, but Jackson did is totally silly at least to me. After finally having seen some bootleg concert footage from the Dirty Mind -tour last year, I can sincerely confirm you that Prince used to be 20x "more gay" onstage than Jackson could have ever even dreamt to be. This is just someone fulfilling the typical 8-12 -year old boy's fantasies. [Edited 5/25/09 14:26pm] i'm not saying that MJ is the epitome of a gay performer. this all came about through recently watching a number of live MJ shows, and i noticed that his stage movements, dancing, and participation with others onstage (ie. closer to the men and almost ignoring the women) gave off a certain vibe, and then the clothing there's a big difference with prince and bowie as they played with their sexuality and tried to give off an are they or not vibe, when it was clear they aren't gay, and are very comfortable with their sexuality to do so. MJ doesn't really openly mention sexuality on stage, but his actions speak louder than words perhaps being female you pick things up differently. certainly i don't seem to be the only one here that doesn't think he's clearly hetrosexual btw, the gold outfit i referred to wasn't the one you pictured, i think it's the one in the buccarest dvd, it's like a gold one peice swimsuit over the top of black trousers (just like a madonna outfit from i think the girlie tour), and there is a part where he squats like he is taking a dump, and grabs his crotch and squat jumps forwards a few times, like a bizare maori dance | |
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BoOTyLiCioUs said: unique said: i explained all that the other day, you don't need to like a subject to be interested in it or want to discuss it. few people like hitler, but they keep on making movies about him as there is wide interest in him. there is a similar interest in MJ, but the difference with MJ is that there are a lot of people who used to be big MJ fans in the past, but have now moved on to other interests, such as prince, and they can't understand how he could go from number 1 in the charts , to public enemy number 1 plus there are those who are still looking for the pound of flesh over his child abuse cases, and feel a great injustice that he wasn't found guilty, in what seemed to them as a repeat of the OJ murder case the fact is he is a fascinating character, and people want to discuss him, good or bad, and there just isn't much in the way of good news regarding him, but a wealth of bad news, thus any discussion will of course reflect this. he has a long way to go to turn that around, but i don't think it's possible. he could pull of 50 amazing shows, but people still won't be happy. right now even his fans aren't happy about his postponing of shows until next year OJ Simpson is in jail now for 15 years now due to attemped robbery.correction, YOU want to talk about the bad because that's all you ever do when you come in here. OJ is in jail for something else, he still got away with murder in many peoples eyes. i don't know so much about him as i hate sport on here i discuss what interests me, and these are things that fascinate me. i've beein watching a lof of MJ videos and listening to a lot of his lesser known and rarer material lately, so posting as i watch/listen, or afterwards to discuss various observations, or discuss recent news articles. some of the replies are very interesting | |
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unique said: BoOTyLiCioUs said: OJ Simpson is in jail now for 15 years now due to attemped robbery.correction, YOU want to talk about the bad because that's all you ever do when you come in here. OJ is in jail for something else, he still got away with murder in many peoples eyes. i don't know so much about him as i hate sport The point is that he eventually ended up going to jail anyways- so he has been put in the place that people wanted him to be in, so its not like he's walking around a free man anymore. [Edited 5/25/09 17:35pm] | |
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So I found this on an MJ forum.
So there goes the rumor out the window, that MJ isn't rehearsing
I guess him not making trips to that medical clinic, these past couple of days make this seem valid. http://www.mjfanclub.net/...php?t=4223 According to Twitter user: @Adam_Freeland :
"It's not everyday you that you are 6 ft. from Michael Jackson! Last night we walked into a recording studio where he was rehearsing. Chills!" about 7 hours ago from web http://www.maximum-jackso...031&page=3 "holmewoodorg Michael jackson just spotted at heathrow terminal 5 his kids are wearing clown masks freaky. about 3 hours ago from mobile web" So now he's in London?  [Edited 5/25/09 21:00pm] | |
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suga10 said: unique said: OJ is in jail for something else, he still got away with murder in many peoples eyes. i don't know so much about him as i hate sport The point is that he eventually ended up going to jail anyways- so he has been put in the place that people wanted him to be in, so its not like he's walking around a free man anymore. [Edited 5/25/09 17:35pm] right and he was also found guilty in the civil case part of the murder trial. [Edited 5/25/09 19:23pm] | |
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starts at 6:00 minutes...hahahahahahahahaha. | |
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unique said: ... and participation with others onstage (ie. closer to the men and almost ignoring the women) gave off a certain vibe, and then the clothing
Here I think you have a point. But most of his stage members have been male anyway (professional musicians tend to be male). The dancers on stage that he had onstage on his solo world tours in the 80s and 90s - he had always four dancers onstage doing the routines - were often supposed to duplicate usually what his brothers did on stage back in the day (they were supposed to even sing sometimes some backing vocals). Now, there exists some footage of Michael on stage with brothers where they are just comfortabe being close to each other, and there have been a few moments where I've thought too that the stuff he has performed with them would qualify as "really gay" did I not also happen to know they were brothers. Wouldn't say though that he looks as comfortable being close to any other males though, not even those dancers. The fact seems to remain that he is most physically comfortable being close to children, as sore as an inssue it seems to be - or to people like Elizabeth Taylor, who seem to present some sort of mother figures of course. perhaps being female you pick things up differently. certainly i don't seem to be the only one here that doesn't think he's clearly hetrosexual
Females tend to have a terrible gay radar. 
btw, the gold outfit i referred to wasn't the one you pictured, i think it's the one in the buccarest dvd, it's like a gold one peice swimsuit over the top of black trousers (just like a madonna outfit from i think the girlie tour), and there is a part where he squats like he is taking a dump, and grabs his crotch and squat jumps forwards a few times, like a bizare maori dance
Yeah, I know. I was referring to his obvious level of naivety on my own part. He often has the basic judgement skills of a ten-year-old. Like mentioned by one of the posters above, that Dangerous tour suit is one of the very few exceptions in his choices of clothing. The Dangerous Tour presents a period in his life when he strongly seemed to identify with the apperance of the female gender. He frankly speaking, was trying to look like a woman in some promotional shots and videos - and for the most part, succeeded pretty well too back then. Androgyny or transvestitism aren't however very good indications of someone having prominent sexual desires towards other men (in your own words: "repressed homosexuality" - however, the mechanism of repression in particular doesn't quite work like that, as repression is not simply something that just prevents something "truthful" from coming out). In fact it seems to be the case that most individuals desiring to adapt feminine looks seem to somewhat compensate their inability to be close to (or get close to) females in a more intimate and sexual way. Playing out the same culturally conditioned "signifiers" on yourself seem to be often something of a compensation for the lack of the male-female relationship being easily establishable. This is pretty obvious even from the very earliest psychological studies on the issue, even if contemporary pluralism would simply like to file such things under "self-expression", or whatever. Homosexual genderbending by rule seems to be entirely different than what Jackson has done for the most part, however. Go to a gay club and see for yourself how many indivduals there look or act anything like Michael Jackson. He was of course sort of androgynous even prior to his surgical operations too, although notice that I am not professing to know that "Michael Jackson isn't gay". He is far too complicated a character for even most professional psychologists / psychoanalysts try to analyze from afar '(I've seen a few laughable ones where they are constantly misusing even their own theories). Given my own line of education and rather vast knowledge of him from being a fan as a teenager, I would however proceed to say on my own part that he most likely is not what we would call "a gay man". In fact, I'd hate to admit that the pedophilia claims seem to indicate far much more something someone with his psychological profile - what we can know of him - would be capable of, or motivated to, carrying out. But let's not get into there too much, as it's just stupid speculation no one can do convincinly. ... by the way, I don't quite understand what does "crotch grabbing" have to do with homosexuality. It's sort of very silly indeed, but it was his "shock manouver" that he employed heavily during one era of his career - the move was apparently taken from rappers of the day. As far as I know, homosexual men aren't the only ones who grab their penises in their hands. | |
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the whole Jacksons look utterly gay at Motown 25. Especially Randy.
There is a rumour that Michael did date David Geffen. [Edited 5/26/09 2:35am] | |
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graecophilos said: the whole Jacksons look utterly gay at Motown 25. Especially Randy.
lmao , when michael said "raaandy!" , randy's buffalo walk he did before gettin into place was hilarious | |
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ElectricBlue said: http://www.youtube.com/wa...SZl5Vr_AO8 WATCH the Microphone go from IN his Hand to NOT.. then back to being in his hand. They even needed to edit in a "King of Pop" sign to make it work, because in one of the nights he had the mic in his hand and pretended to sing and the other he put the microphone on the mic stand. Oops! I never noticed that before. What a hack. | |
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graecophilos said: the whole Jacksons look utterly gay at Motown 25. Especially Randy.
There is a rumour that Michael did date David Geffen. [Edited 5/26/09 2:35am] That's somewhat of a homophobic comment.Did it ever cross your mind that he just might be metrosexual? These rappers now adays just want to be thugs and all hard when it's been said by cross dressers that they are the ones that are on the down low. I wouldn't doubt that half those rappers in the business are on the down low. | |
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Michael Jackson Million Dollar Buy
By Sophie Eager May 26, 2009 Michael Jackson spent almost $6.3 million on statues of children and Peter Pan for his Neverland Ranch, according to court papers. The 50-year-old singer reportedly spent millions on statues such as life-size figures of children holding hands and dancing. He reportedly bought the statues with the $25 million fee he received for "personal expenses" when he sold his half of the ATV Music Publishing Company to Sony three years ago. Jacko's ex-lawyer Raymone Bain made the claims as she is suing the star for $52 million. She claims she is owed money for deals she made for Jackson between 2003 and 2006. Jacko is reportedly now selling the statues to raise some cash. The court documents, filed by Bain, reportedly say: "The magnitude of his spending is legendary as he has earned and dissipated several fortunes." It added: "Mr Jackson's pattern has been to spend to the brink of insolvency and then borrow against his assets to further feed his spending. His unbridled spending would give any other individual a moment of pause." http://www.nationalledger...6210.shtml Michael Jackson spent fortune on statues Tuesday, 26 May 2009 Michael Jackson splashed out almost £4 million on statues of children. The 'Thriller' singer - who was cleared of child abuse allegations in 2005 - purchased the life-size bronze monuments of kids holding hands, dancing and playing on slides to display in his Neverland home. Jackson is said to have made the purchases - which were revealed in court documents filed by his ex-publicist Raymone Bain - while his huge debts piled up, using money from the £16 million he received for "Personal expenses" after selling his half of the ATV Music Publishing company to Sony in 2006. In the court documents, Bain, who is suing Jackson for £33 million, claimed: "The magnitude of his spending is legendary as he has earned and dissipated several fortunes. "Mr. Jackson's pattern has been to spend to the brink of insolvency and then borrow against his assets to further feed his spending would give any other individual a moment of pause. "Mr. Jackson exhibited and continues to exhibit impulsive and irresponsible spending habits without regard to the financial limits of his earnings." Most of the statues are now being auctioned in a bid to raise cash for the star. Last week, the 50-year-old star - who is said to be in millions of pounds worth of debt - postponed the first four concerts of his 50-night residency at London's O2 arena. (C) BANG Media International http://www.myparkmag.co.u...atues.html MJ L.O.V.E: https://www.facebook.com/...689&type=2 / YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/us...nderSilent | |
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ViintageJunkiie said: graecophilos said: the whole Jacksons look utterly gay at Motown 25. Especially Randy.
lmao , when michael said "raaandy!" , randy's buffalo walk he did before gettin into place was hilarious Back in the day it seem that randy was alway doing an audition for the villiage people. | |
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NaughtyKitty said: Michael Jackson Million Dollar Buy
By Sophie Eager May 26, 2009 Michael Jackson spent almost $6.3 million on statues of children and Peter Pan for his Neverland Ranch, according to court papers. The 50-year-old singer reportedly spent millions on statues such as life-size figures of children holding hands and dancing. He reportedly bought the statues with the $25 million fee he received for "personal expenses" when he sold his half of the ATV Music Publishing Company to Sony three years ago. Jacko's ex-lawyer Raymone Bain made the claims as she is suing the star for $52 million. She claims she is owed money for deals she made for Jackson between 2003 and 2006. Jacko is reportedly now selling the statues to raise some cash. The court documents, filed by Bain, reportedly say: "The magnitude of his spending is legendary as he has earned and dissipated several fortunes." It added: "Mr Jackson's pattern has been to spend to the brink of insolvency and then borrow against his assets to further feed his spending. His unbridled spending would give any other individual a moment of pause." http://www.nationalledger...6210.shtml Michael Jackson spent fortune on statues Tuesday, 26 May 2009 Michael Jackson splashed out almost £4 million on statues of children. The 'Thriller' singer - who was cleared of child abuse allegations in 2005 - purchased the life-size bronze monuments of kids holding hands, dancing and playing on slides to display in his Neverland home. Jackson is said to have made the purchases - which were revealed in court documents filed by his ex-publicist Raymone Bain - while his huge debts piled up, using money from the £16 million he received for "Personal expenses" after selling his half of the ATV Music Publishing company to Sony in 2006. In the court documents, Bain, who is suing Jackson for £33 million, claimed: "The magnitude of his spending is legendary as he has earned and dissipated several fortunes. "Mr. Jackson's pattern has been to spend to the brink of insolvency and then borrow against his assets to further feed his spending would give any other individual a moment of pause. "Mr. Jackson exhibited and continues to exhibit impulsive and irresponsible spending habits without regard to the financial limits of his earnings." Most of the statues are now being auctioned in a bid to raise cash for the star. Last week, the 50-year-old star - who is said to be in millions of pounds worth of debt - postponed the first four concerts of his 50-night residency at London's O2 arena. (C) BANG Media International http://www.myparkmag.co.u...atues.html funny article, he still owns the half of the Atv/sony catalog.funny how he's been broke for 20 years now. | |
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Latest on Raymone Bain case
Video from awhile back http://www.tmz.com/videos...526820c32c http://lesliemjhu.blogspot.com/ Raymone Bain vs. Michael Jackson - Part 3. Raymone Bain's people tried to serve a copy of the summons in the civil case. "Location is a gated property. No one answered me on the intercom. Armed guards came to the gate and asked me to identify myself, which I did as a registered California process server. The guards then told me to 'get the **** out here'." - said Michael L. Smith. [Edited 5/26/09 17:12pm] | |
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I thought the auction was stopped?! But those Bain papers make it sound as if it's still going ahead... "I would say that Prince's top thirty percent is great. Of that thirty percent, I'll bet the public has heard twenty percent of it." - Susan Rogers, "Hunting for Prince's Vault", BBC, 2015 |
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IS IT BECAUSE HE'S BLACK?: What They Don't Want You to Know About Michael Jackson
By Christopher Hamilton (January 5, 2006)Email to a friend | Print Friendly What do you think of when you hear the name, Michael Jackson? Wacko? Criminal? Great Entertainer? Businessman? Whatever you think of MJ, throw all your thoughts out of the window and let's examine some facts. For years the media has labeled him "Wacko Jacko." What happened to MJ? Wasn't he the biggest thing in music at one point? When did he go crazy? All anyone has to do is look when Michael started being portrayed as "Crazy." It wasn't during the "Thriller" years. It's cool being a song and dance man. That's what they want. DON'T DARE BECOME A THINKING BUSINESSMAN. DON'T DARE BUY THE BEATLES CATALOG. DON'T DARE MARRY ELVIS' DAUGHTER. DON'T DARE BEAT THE RECORD INDUSTRY AT THEIR OWN GAME. Michael started being labeled crazy when he began making business moves that no one had been successful at doing. Michael took two cultural icons and shattered them to pieces. All our lives, we've been bombarded with 2 facts. The Beatles were the greatest group of all time and Elvis was the King of Rock and Roll. Michael bought the Beatles and married the King's daughter. (if that ain't literally sticking it to the man) If I wasn't a cynic, I'd say Michael did the Lisa Marie thing just to stick it to the people who consider Elvis the King. The Beatles were great, but they weren't great enough to maintain publishing rights over their own songs. Elvis was great, but he didn't write his songs. His manager, Col Tom Parker, was the mastermind behind Elvis ... keeping him drugged with fresh subscription pills and doing all the paperwork. Michael could do no wrong as an entertainer. "Off the Wall," first solo artist with 4 top ten singles. "Thriller," the biggest selling album of all time, with a then record 7 top ten singles. "Bad," the first album to spawn 5 number one songs (even Thriller only had 2 number one songs). All this is cool. But that is all you better do. SING AND DANCE. Michael wanted to be greater. He bought the legendary Sly and the Family Stone catalog and no one really cared. When he bought the Beatles, people noticed. The Sony merger took the cake. Sony, in their eagerness to have a part of the Beatles catalog, agreed to a 50/50 merger with Jackson, thus forming Sony/ATV music publishing. Now, Michael co-owns half of the entire publishing of all of Sony artists. Check out the complete lists of songs at sonyatv.com. A sampling of the songs he owns the publishing rights to are over 900 country songs by artists such as Tammy Wynette, Kenny Rogers, Alabama. All Babyface written songs. Latin songs by Selena and Enrique Iglesias. Roberta Flack songs, Mariah Carey songs, Destiny's Child's songs. 2pac, Biggie and Fleetwood Mac songs. In essence over 100,000 songs. "What is this man doing?" None of the greats did this. Not Bono, Springsteen, Sinatra. "Who does he think he is? Get whatever you can on him." To "get" someone, you have to attack what they love the most. I'll say no more on that. The only man who even approaches MJ in taking on the industry is Prince and to a lesser extent, George Michael. They went after poor George Michael, publicly outing the man as a homosexual. Prince fought hard and made his point, but nevertheless still had to resort to using a major company to distribute his materials. There is nothing wrong with that. Prince would get the lion's share, but the result were years of being labeled crazy and difficult. The greatest moment for them was the Sneddon press conference. "We got him." Never was such glee so evident. Who cares if we have evidence? Michael was acquitted, did not celebrate, went home and left the USA. Best move ever. Now what is there left for the haters to do? He's gone. "Gone, what do you mean he moved to Bahrain? Well, how the hell can we get him if he's not here? Quick, get that columnist to write a series of articles on how MJ's teetering on the brink of destruction. Oh we did that? Well, what can we do?" On the outer surface, it appears Michael is not doing anything to make money. Don't even count the weekly sales of his CDs. 15,000 CDs a week is nothing for Michael. The Sony/ATV catalog is money for Michael Jackson every time he breathes. Serious money. The fact that no one reports on the actual amount is proof of that. They would rather you believe he is broke than tell you the truth. Neverland is still owned by MJ. The family home in Encino is still owned by MJ. Michael still owns the Beatles songs through the merger with Sony as well as full ownership of his own songs. But, hey, that's our little secret. Michael Jackson is literally walking in the shoes that no Black person has ever walked in before. If he ever writes an autobiography, it will be one of the most interesting ever. A Black man with no real formal education becomes the most powerful man in the industry, DESPITE hatred, racism, enemies in his own camps and a media willing to be bought to the highest bidder. If Sony had any sense, right now they should offer to continue the partnership. That's the only way they will make future money off of Michael's catalogue. Tommy Mattola did not lose his job with Sony because he was a bad label head. It was a casualty of war. MJ exposed him and Sony had to cut their losses. Companies do it all the time. Notice no one at Sony nor did Matolla himself ever sue MJ for slander. Michael always was loyal to his bosses at Epic/Sony. Back at the 1984 Grammys, he even brought then label head Walter Yetnikoff on stage with him at one point. He's always thanked Dave Glew, Mattola and others at Sony in his acceptance speeches. Sony can still do right by Michael, but it may be too late. However, they still should make a goodwill gesture, but how many times do businesses do that? If I were them, I'd still want MJ as an ally, not as an enemy. It is/was a mutally profitable merger. I'd be scared as hell if I was an enemy of MJ while he is with the multi-billionaires overseas. Believe me, they aren't just over there discussing designer clothing. A conglomerate is in the making. One last note, these facts that I write here should not be the only times you hear this, but the sad fact is it probably is. I was worried that Michael would go down because of the uncertainty of the jury. That's playing unfair. If I'm presenting these facts here at EURweb, YOU CAN BELIEVE THE MEDIA KNOWS IT ALREADY AS WELL. They aren't salivating over everything MJ related just because he made "Thriller." They know what's up. Think about it. That's why I laugh when I see shows like BET's "The Ultimate Hustler." We all know who that is. (How can Damon Dash know who the ultimate hustler is anyway? He lost Roc-a-fella to Jay-Z) In the end, Michael won't be known for being an alleged child molester. He won't be known for "Thriller." He will be known as the man that fought the record industry and won and lived to tell the tale. That is a book worth buying. http://www.eurweb.com/sto...r24224.cfm | |
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One Boy's Story
New Jersey Teenager Reveals Secrets At Neverland Ranch (CBS) Ahmad Elatab of Clifton, N.J., first met Michael Jackson when he was 9. Did he ever attend a sleepover at Jackson's house? "Yes, once and it was pretty fun," says Elatab, who was 17 when Correspondent Peter Van Sant spoke with him nearly two years ago. "It's not young boys. He had young girls. He had teenagers with him, all kinds of ages -- young, old, everybody. Elatab, who's Lebanese, struck up a friendship with Jackson as a boy, and has visited Neverland Ranch at least six times. "There was a thing about the press. They told everybody that he hates Middle Eastern children, and he wanted to prove them wrong," says Elatab. "So he brought, like, 50 Middle Eastern kids, and met with them in a private studio in New York City." “He started calling me, we started hanging out and stuff like that,” he adds, showing a picture of himself, his brother and Jackson. While he never slept in Jackson’s bed, he saw many others who did. Does he think that Jackson is a child molester? “No, I don’t. He’s not weird,” says Ahmad, who claims Jackson has never done anything inappropriate to him or anyone he knows. “He’s not sexual with kids. He’s not a molester, he’s not a pedophile. He just likes to help children.” Ahmad’s relationship with Jackson made front-page news on the New York Post, which referred to Jackson as “Wacko Jacko.” “It's a stupid name. No, he’s not Wacko Jacko,” says Ahmad. "We call him different names. We call him Doodoo or Smelly." So who decides who gets to sleep in the same bed as Michael? "He decides, and the kids just ask him, and he says, ‘Yeah, sure,’" says Ahmad. "A whole bunch of kids just come and jump in bed with him." In fact, Ahmad says Jackson’s bed can get quite crowded: “He sleeps with his kids. Anybody. He sleeps with his makeup artist. He just sleeps this way. He’s a very loving person.” Ahmad believes he knows the boy who has reportedly accused Jackson of molestation. “He threw himself on Michael and he really wanted to hold Michael’s hand,” recalls Ahmad. “Michael gives him love back, but he doesn’t give him love back in a sexual way … I didn’t see Michael getting aroused, I didn’t see nothing like that.” Ahmad believes the molesting charges are based on lies, along with the report that Jackson has a secret bedroom at Neverland Ranch. “It’s not a secret bedroom, they just made that up,” he says. “It’s a room over the theater, it’s like a VIP room.” To Ahmad, Neverland is like a magic kingdom for children, a place where adults have little say: “You can do anything you want. You’re treated like kings, never told what to do, just tell them what to do … They can touch expensive paintings, they can touch all these expensive diamonds. Anything.” “I never had the feeling that he will be a child molester,” says Ahmad’s mother, Hanadi Fattouh. “I trust Michael Jackson.” And Ahmad says he trusted Michael, too. He remembers the man who once took him and 20 other children to a closed Toys 'R' Us. “We went there. He said the store is yours, you could have anything we wanted,” says Ahmad. “He’s a normal guy. He’s nice, and he’s the most loving guy in the world. He uses money to help himself but also everyone else around him.” http://www.cbsnews.com/st...5135.shtml | |
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