suga10 said:

where did u find this?

Timmy84 said:

some fans still can't distinguish between a reliable article and a bullshit article ..lol, from the first two lines i can tell its a total BS.

seeingvoices12 said:

..and some fans can't see the truth, no matter what they are told.
You guys said the idea of him canceling any shows was bullshit as well.
So far it is you who have been proven wrong. Not the so called nay-sayers. Maybe a little perspective might be good at this time, and see what actually plays out?

None of us have any idea what Jacko is up to. But we all have opinions based on his past actions. Maybe he will perform 45, sorry 50 amazing gigs. I hope he does. So far I have every reason to think he won't.

He couldn't even manage a single gig a couple of years ago. What has changed to make anyone believe he has suddenly changed back into MJ from the 80's or early 90's.

Who is being unrealistic here?

midnightmover said:

First off I'm not posing as an objective observer, I have clearly stated I am a a fan of Mj's but that doesn't automatically exclude me from being objective. I have tried to always present my point of view with fact and you will see posts where I have been critical of the way things have been handled. Just because I may not agree with you doesn't make me wrong. Feel free to orgnote me on where I have stated anything you feel as being mistrue or as you say delusional and I will be happy to review and discuss with you.

Swa

bboy87 said:

i'm sure if you found some new items of news that received your seal of approval that you would post them if they hadn't been posted before, but it appears that the "fans" are just avoiding any news articles and just posting replies of "bullshit" after any news article, or igoring it completely. it seems if an article has an element of truth that portrays MJ in a negative light, it's completly ignored so it slides away, and a bunch of massive photos and youtubes posted afterwards to try and hide it, instead of the articles being discussed. throughout the rest of the site, most news articles on prince would have their own thread each, with number of people commenting, good and bad

why are the "fans" so botherd about the news articles? why do they write off everything as bullshit? why are all the articles negative about MJ? why is the general consensus that MJ is sick and not in good enough healthy to do 50 shows, and he hasn't been attending rehearsals, etc, etc? why would the press print these articles? if the public didn't want to read them or didn't agree with them, they wouldn't keep on printing these stories

i think the problem with MJ is that the general public are still convinced that he is a child molestor and paedophile, and upset that he has used his resources to avoid convictions on these counts. they are unhappy that he paid off jordy chandler, and unhappy that the last case ended in farce. before these stories he was a well loved star with the public, so it just goes to show that the public don't care who it is, if you commit child abuse you should pay for it, they won't accept any excuses or give any free passes regardless of who you are, and they won't forget about this. the public know that just because someone isn't found guilty in a court of law that this doesn't mean that they didn't commit the offence. they feel he has abused his star status to abuse young boys, and abused his status to avoid the punishment. as other stars have also avoided the same type of punishment for offences that normal joe public would have received, they aren't happy with this situation at all, thus looking for "an eye for an eye". MJ's problem is that his music has declined badly since his hey day, he hasn't released anything in a long time, he hasn't performed live in a long time, thus he hasn't presented the public with anything to try and change their minds about him, the last major event they associate themselves with MJ is his child abuse case. whilst he released thriller 25, the public overlook this as he's released god knows how many greatest hits and compilation discs and sets, and that's at least the fourth release of that album, so he's milking the past for all he can instead of doing something new

on the flip side, the MJ fans are viewed as fanatical to the extreme, full of complete denial of anything negative whatsoever about MJ, and full of the greatest optimism since the world hoped for the end of the second world war. although MJ appeared on tv in an interview and admitted he sleeps with children and thinks there is nothing wrong with it, his fans don't appear to find that strange, and think he is completly innocent of any of the allegations towards him. MJ hasn't had a real serious female partner throughout his adult life, he has had a pet monkey who slept in MJ's bedroom at home and on tour, he was then involved in a major child abuse case which was settled out of court with a large pay off and he married elvis's daughter in an attempt to stop his drug addictions, but that only lasted 2 years and appeared to all but a few as a sham marriage. considering his second marraige which was also short lived, wasn't consumated, and he didn't even sleep with his wife, according to the woman herself, it strongly suggests that he isn't interested in a normal relationship with a member of the opposite sex. since his adult life, most of his themes for music and videos revolve around children, moonwalker movie, captain eo, etc. normally a young adult would experiement sexual themes based on their sexual preferences, such as madonna and prince's early work for example, or pretty much most pop music for teenagers, young stars will be seen around pretty stars of the opposite sex (even if they are gay, unless they have openely came out), but MJ, one of the biggest young stars around in the 80s, when he was seen, he was usually seen with either a monkey or children. it probably didn't sink in at the time, but i think anyone who's ever got to the stage of moving past teenager into a twenty something will tell you that hanging out with young kids at that age isn't normal or desirable, and raging hormones push you towards what you desire, usually the oppposite sex

now he is 50 years old, with hardly any adult female relationships in his life, surely he must be feeling lonely, and regardless of what he has went through, wouldn't have a problem finding a female partner, but doesn't. instead he has a relationship with children that he looks after but there is no evidence that they are his. his last wife, who is mother of two of them confirmed that she didn't have sex with him and doesn't know who the sperm donor is, and we don't have any evidence or suggestion as to who the mother of the third child is. this all points towards him having no desire for females or adults, and instead has an unhealthy obsession with children. these unusual lifestyle choices don't do him any favours in appealing to the public

perhaps you can now understand why some people have an issue towards MJ, and why fans aren't taken seriously and considered loonies. MJ doesn't do anything to try and change that opinion, and neither do most fans, which in turn doesn't help MJ's case, as it just gives the impression that he is weird and out of touch with reality, and followed by fanatics who are similarly weird and out of touch

as this isn't an MJ site, you would have thought it would be a good place to discuss MJ objectively and seriously, and not bother about the inevitable jokes and digs, but instead the fans appear to fit in with the stereotype i've mentioned that describes his fans in general, which only seems to highlight that MJ fans are over biased and unrealistic in thier observations and statements. this isn't a debate, it's a discussion, so it's not an arguement between two sides, with both sides looking for a win, so instead of blindly defending any negative comment towards MJ, regardless of the truth, perhaps if a more open and honest manner was taken, the fans might be accepted and respected a bit more, instead of coming across like a radical muslim that fails to understand how ridiculous they sound

thoughout this site, people discuss prince without bias, and with various points of view coming across, no-one tries to defend him, and we find the facts and all sorts of other interesting views. wouldn't it be great if we could discuss MJ in the same way? that's what i would have expected from an MJ thread on prince.org. i would expect blind adulation of MJ on an MJ site instead, i'm sure they would appreciate it there

seeingvoices12 said:

..and some fans can't see the truth, no matter what they are told.
You guys said the idea of him canceling any shows was bullshit as well.
So far it is you who have been proven wrong. Not the so called nay-sayers. Maybe a little perspective might be good at this time, and see what actually plays out?

None of us have any idea what Jacko is up to. But we all have opinions based on his past actions. Maybe he will perform 45, sorry 50 amazing gigs. I hope he does. So far I have every reason to think he won't.

He couldn't even manage a single gig a couple of years ago. What has changed to make anyone believe he has suddenly changed back into MJ from the 80's or early 90's.

Who is being unrealistic here?

unique said:

[Bait snip - luv4u]

Rorywan said:

[Bait snip - luv4u]

cdcgold said:

i object to your personal insult, which is against the forum rules, so i hope a moderator takes the appropriate action against you for this.

personal insults towards other members are against forum rules

unique said:

You've got to be kidding me you haters insult people on here in EVERY post you write almost and if the mods do erase my comments then i'll know for sure that the people who run this site are biased
[Edited 5/23/09 13:42pm]

cdcgold said:

i've reported your last two posts as you have made direct and personal insults against other members by calling myself an idiot and referring that towards another member

whilst in other posts, some or most of which appear to be edited, some have called MJ fans loons for example, but there is a difference between generalising and giving a direct insult towards another member, which you have done

just because you don't agree with what others have to say, it doesn't give you the right to insult people just because you disagree with what they have to say. you don't even give your reasons why you disagree, you just call people idiots, which i think is a bit ironic

unique said:

[Bait snip - luv4u]

cdcgold said:

I have just got to say this. I would hardly call unique a 'fool' - have you read some of his well informed posts? Whether you agree or not, he has a lot of knowledge about music and the industry, so you are only making yourself seem ridiculous by saying what you did, it's laughable, and so far from the truth it's unbelievable, which is why I felt I had to comment.

unique said:

heh, I hadn't checked this thread yet today, but just called cdc out on the name calling crap in the other MJ thread. It's like if you don't agree with them, you're just a fool & a troll.

Jeffiner said:

I agree. Unique has been around FOREVER and seems very knowledgeable. I can't for the life of me figure out how he can think/type so much and fast.
I thought maybe he had voice recognition software until I spotted a typo.

One reason I remember him is because he can be rough on Prince at times and the mama in me doesn't like that...even when he's right.

i object to your personal insult, which is against the forum rules, so i hope a moderator takes the appropriate action against you for this.

personal insults towards other members are against forum rules

That's exactly the kind of delusion I'm talking about.

[Bait snip - luv4u]

it just comes across as immature and stupid to me.

you would have thought it would be a good place to discuss MJ objectively and seriously, and not bother about the inevitable jokes and digs... thoughout this site, people discuss prince without bias, and with various points of view coming across, no-one tries to defend him, and we find the facts and all sorts of other interesting views. wouldn't it be great if we could discuss MJ in the same way?

There's a lot of stuff that gets written papers, but I think the best way to judge MJ would be to just wait and see how he does on the stage.

unique said:

I support you 100% on this. To personally insult a fellow member over their point of view is against the rules of the forum and unacceptable.

I think we all need to settle down and re-read before we post. We may all unwittingly make inflamatory posts using language that might inflame the situation.

I personally take offence at being called delusional.
midnightmover said:

So moving forward, can we please keep any personal differences and insults out of it. I welcome criticism of Michael, I welcome factual news reporting, and I welcome intelligent discussion around the concerts, and the music.

As unique has stated:


So lets see if we can all respect each other's point of view - even when they differ, and be willing to enter into a debate and in some instances agree to disagree and stop with the deliberate snipes and personal attacks.

Swa

bboy87 said:

i think the problem with MJ is that the general public are still convinced that he is a child molestor and paedophile, and upset that he has used his resources to avoid convictions on these counts. they are unhappy that he paid off jordy chandler, and unhappy that the last case ended in farce. before these stories he was a well loved star with the public, so it just goes to show that the public don't care who it is, if you commit child abuse you should pay for it, they won't accept any excuses or give any free passes regardless of who you are, and they won't forget about this. the public know that just because someone isn't found guilty in a court of law that this doesn't mean that they didn't commit the offence. they feel he has abused his star status to abuse young boys, and abused his status to avoid the punishment. as other stars have also avoided the same type of punishment for offences that normal joe public would have received, they aren't happy with this situation at all, thus looking for "an eye for an eye".

MJ's problem is that his music has declined badly since his hey day, he hasn't released anything in a long time, he hasn't performed live in a long time, thus he hasn't presented the public with anything to try and change their minds about him, the last major event they associate themselves with MJ is his child abuse case. whilst he released thriller 25, the public overlook this as he's released god knows how many greatest hits and compilation discs and sets, and that's at least the fourth release of that album, so he's milking the past for all he can instead of doing something new

MJ hasn't had a real serious female partner throughout his adult life, he has had a pet monkey who slept in MJ's bedroom at home and on tour, he was then involved in a major child abuse case which was settled out of court with a large pay off and he married elvis's daughter in an attempt to stop his drug addictions, but that only lasted 2 years and appeared to all but a few as a sham marriage. considering his second marraige which was also short lived, wasn't consumated, and he didn't even sleep with his wife, according to the woman herself, it strongly suggests that he isn't interested in a normal relationship with a member of the opposite sex. since his adult life, most of his themes for music and videos revolve around children, moonwalker movie, captain eo, etc. normally a young adult would experiement sexual themes based on their sexual preferences, such as madonna and prince's early work for example, or pretty much most pop music for teenagers, young stars will be seen around pretty stars of the opposite sex (even if they are gay, unless they have openely came out), but MJ, one of the biggest young stars around in the 80s, when he was seen, he was usually seen with either a monkey or children. it probably didn't sink in at the time, but i think anyone who's ever got to the stage of moving past teenager into a twenty something will tell you that hanging out with young kids at that age isn't normal or desirable, and raging hormones push you towards what you desire, usually the oppposite sex

now he is 50 years old, with hardly any adult female relationships in his life, surely he must be feeling lonely, and regardless of what he has went through, wouldn't have a problem finding a female partner, but doesn't. instead he has a relationship with children that he looks after but there is no evidence that they are his. his last wife, who is mother of two of them confirmed that she didn't have sex with him and doesn't know who the sperm donor is, and we don't have any evidence or suggestion as to who the mother of the third child is. this all points towards him having no desire for females or adults, and instead has an unhealthy obsession with children. these unusual lifestyle choices don't do him any favours in appealing to the public

I don't agree about the music declining, but I do agree that he hasn't done a great job in keeping up the pace in making albums- it might have a lot to do with all those problems he got himself in the past eight years, and that's probably its held him back.




A lot of his problems are because of his own doing. He also loved selling stories to the tabloids, and that got him into a ton of trouble. The folks from the National Enquirer came onto Geraldo's show in 1993 (Its on You Tube- it was a show about Vitiligo). They said that Michael was the one who started the rumors about the Hyperbaric Chamber and the Elephant Man Bones. MJ made a lot of dumb mistakes throughout the years, and that's why he landed in such a big mess. He's as much to blame as far as why his reputation went right out the window, although the media played its part too.

Jacko 'has only managed two rehearsals'

Saturday, May 23 2009, 15:51 BST

By Daniel Kilkelly, Entertainment Reporter
Jacko 'has only managed two rehearsals'

WENN

Michael Jackson has attended just two rehearsals for his forthcoming residency at London's O2 arena, according to a report.

The pop legend is said to be 'in a stupor', leading to fears that the project could be cut back or scrapped altogether.

Jackson has already postponed the opening four nights of his comeback. Concert promoters AEG explained the delay by insisting that organisers needed more time to prepare for the production's "size and scope".

However, a source told the Daily Mail: "The suggestion that they need more time to set up the show in London is a joke."

The insider added: "I think the fans who have already bought tickets should hold their breath and cross their fingers, because there is no guarantee any of this is actually going to happen. There is a possibility that this will still happen, but it is up to him to get his act together.

"Michael has only been to two days of rehearsals for the show. His dancers have been working on it every single day for 45 days at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles, but Michael has been nowhere to be found."

The opening show at The O2 is currently scheduled for July 13.


http://www.digitalspy.co....rsals.html

unique said:

I'm sure YOU believe every word in that article as if it were the gospel

i find it funny that fans will disagree about his music declining, but will then elaborate to say that invincible wasn't his best work and had patch moments, and forget about the material that wasn't deemed good enough for release after invincible (ie. the seven album or whatever it was called - truly awful stuff). thriller and off the wall were great pop albums, but in the grand scheme of music history, they aren't head and shoulders above albums like the dark side of the moon, exile on main street, talking book, etc, and the artists behind those albums managed to make several albums just as great, only declining in later years, and then fans will agree that the music just isn't as good as it was.

unique said:

I thought History was an average album- it wasn't the worst though- but there were some nice songs- like YANA, Earth Song, Scream, This Time Around, and Stranger in Moscow- so its not like he completely jacked it all up. I think there were some song it could have done without, but those songs I mentioned above were pretty good. He almost had it right.

As far as Invincible is concerned; I heard the album. Yeah its not that good of an album, but this is really his only lackluster album.

His work didn't exactly decline over the years though, because I still think Dangerous was better than Bad. A lot of people might disagree with me on this comment, but I think Thriller is way better than Off the Wall. Off the Wall was good- but I enjoyed Thriller a lot more and it has more repeat value.
[Edited 5/23/09 22:48pm]