midnightmover said: alphastreet said: ^ boy, you really must be popping the champagne, would you like some balloons and confetti with that?
Just bringing the truth as usual. No one else does, so I thought I'd better fill in the gap for y'all. Michael was forced into these gigs by impending financial catastrophe, but he dreads performing and is panicking as the dates get closer. He is backed into a corner with nowhere to turn. Like I said, the chickens are coming home to roost. Actually you're not bringing "the truth". The truth is that shows have been postponed and rescheduled. Everything else is conjecture. Now I know many posters on here love to revel in the negative, just as some also fly to the extreme of he can do no wrong. I just expect that both sides man up and admit when they are wrong, or when their statements are incorrect. The shows haven't started yet. So anyone saying he won't perform them is just baiting and speculating - or rather nay saying. Now I do feel for all those people who have paid money in booking hotels, and airfares. And tickets will be refunded if people can't make the rescheduled events. But reality is most hotels will transfer bookings, and the majority of airlines (depending on what type of fare you purchased) offer flexibility to change dates. Do I think the concerts will go ahead. Yes. Do I think people will want him to fail. Yes. Do I think there will be postponed shows - it's likely as it is with any act (see Depeche Mode's recent cancellations for evidence). If the whole series of concerts are cancelled will I man up and admit I was wrong on here - indeed Yes. If the shows go on will those who want to bask in failure, give props... time will tell. Swa "I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love" | |
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unique said: BoOTyLiCioUs said: Wow, you sure are long winded. i'm not quite sure what your point is what is interesting, is i see people making posts that are replied with comments such as "bullshit" etc, which is fair enough as they usually have another extreme view from the MJ fanatics, and stretch the boundaries of truth a little, to say the least, but the main point being that they have a different viewpoint from the MJ fanatics, and i say fanatic as fan is short for fanatic, and i would say i am fanatical about some things, thus there is no shame in being fanatical about things that you feel that way about but i note that when i raise several points for discussion, which are based on well thought out and factually backed issues, they are ignored usually, which can only lead me to believe that i'm getting close to a truth that the fanatics know is correct, but don't wish to accept interestingly, after i post various points, further evidence appears to back up my points, yet still the fanatics overlook these thus i ask again, from my earlier post, could you please give me your comments on the issues i've raised, as i'm interested in hearing your point of view, and likewise the other fanatics who post here it seems to me that this "tour" or string of concerts is as i've mentioned before, not something that MJ has a real interest in doing, if he has any interest at all, and it's simply something he's been forced into accepting for financial reasons, and something that ultimately looks like is not going to happen in the end it sounds like this is something that randy phillips has persuaded AEG to press ahead with, which MJ has no interest or inclination of fulfilling and from the outset, i've put across several thought out points which has directed towards this, which have came under disbelief and denial from fanatics, yet the simple facts that have came to light later have strengthened these points, and it looks even less likely now that the concerts will go ahead as planned, or i should perhaps now say tha as the concerts won't go ahead as planned due to rescheduling, that they won't go ahead as per the new schedule MJ has effectively assfucked his biggest fanatics and shit in thier mouths with his, or is it AEG's? rescheduling, so maybe some of the fanatics will finally open thier eyes to this and wake up and smell the coffee, and get around to discussing things in a realistic manner, instead of a farsically optimistic way that's more appropriate for those detained for mental health reasons wouldn't it be nice to disuss MJ in an honest and realistic manner without the stupid fanatical bias? we discuss prince 24/7/365 in that manner,and this is a prince site, full of his fans, so why can't we discuss other artists without bias? if you want to discuss MJ in a biased manner full of optimism and without any negative comments, then i'm sure most MJ sites will welcome you with a can of jesus juice and a warm bed, but it's ridiculous to expect that sort of behaviour here can't we jsut discuss MJ in an open and honest and unbiased manner, just like any other subject is discussed on this site? and don't forget, i want you all to comment honestly and openly on the points i made in my original post, rathe than comment on this post, please don't skate around the issue, answer that and then answer this, one thing first, and onc we start to get on the same page we can maybe start to get into more interesting discussions on topics i've been dying to get to, regarding the music, and not the superficial Boy, you really are longwinded... everything you say regarding MJ's disinterest in the O2 shows and the not happening of those shows is pure speculation at this point... so why waste our time to discuss a thing to death (based on speculations) when in less than 2 months we'll have an answer by MJ himself! | |
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Michael Jackson - Thinks he is bigger than Elvis and the Beatles
Michael Jackson, who begins his This is It concert run at the O2 arena in London this summer, apparently thinks he is bigger than the Beatles and Elvis. I am told that the alleged King of (kiddie) Poop will perform one song (I wasn’t told which one) that will compare his achievements with Elvis and the Beatles and will show how Michael is on top. The performance allegedly ends with the statement “King of Rock, Pop, and Soul” flashing on the screen. If all this is true, Michael Jackson is even more of a joke than people ever though he was. Not only did he weasel his way out of two child molestation cases, but his comebacks have been laughable. Back in 1995, Michael Jackson began a Nazi like campaign complete with statues of himself that sailed all over the world. His attempts to top the charts failed miserably, although he was able to get a number one single – You Are Not Alone – by deep discounting the single to ninety-nince cents, one third the cost of regular singles. In 2001, Michael held a concert dedication to himself at Madison Square Garden in New York City, complete with several special guests to boost his credibility. The television ratings for the concert were very high, but the reviews were brutal. His album Invincible, released around the same time, was an international bomb. If Michael Jackson is the “musical genius” he and his fans claim he is, then why can’t he just sit down, write his own songs (without relying on several hip producers), play his own instruments, and launch an album without the desperate amount of self-produced hype he usually puts forward? Don’t get me wrong: Michael Jackson was an entertainment phenomenon during the 1980s. However, his relevance and success has considerably dwindled since the early nineties. Elvis Presley may have died and the Beatles may have split up, but both acts can still be mentioned without laughing. Mentioning Michael Jackson's name these days not only brings laughs, but gasps of disgust as well. LA Gossip Examiner | |
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unique said: and randy phillips was one of the AEG guys named by prince in march for the shit sound during the LA shows, now he's one of the guys in charge of this fiasco. it sounds like he couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery two things spring to mind, either those in charge are professionally incompetant not to be able to organise this properly, particularly considering that the shows were due to start in six weeks, and the delay of the first show is only 4 days. what the fuck could possibly be such a problem that can't be sorted in six weeks, but needs exactly four more days on top of those six weeks to fix? i've never heard anything so fucking ridiculous in my life. if it's all about the benjamins, surely they could make some concessions for the first show. all they need is for MJ to turn up and sing some fucking songs, or mime them if he can't do that. he can use teleprompts if he can't remember the lyrics, or just mime and stick his hand over his mouth like he did on previous tours. if he hasn't remembered the dance routines he can just stand still or do something impromtu. surely the backing dancers and band don't need an extra 4 days, so they could wing it and cover for everything else. if it's lights or some physical element of the stage that needs done, they can work a bit of overtime. surely they can squeeze 96 extra hours of work into six weeks? Well when staging an event of this magnitude in a fixed venue you want to make sure everything is working perfectly, especially for opening night when the eyes of the world press are on you. There would be some occupational health and safety issues to cover off, some final staging and also some lighting issues to cover off. And also to rehearse in the venue isn't such a ludicrous thing now is it? Do they need 5 days, I don't know. But you would expect that they would have more than one day. I recently watched the Cirque de Soliel Love documentary and they were even pushed for time with a few months of in venue rehearsals. As for Michael just turning up on stage and singing with none of the promised theatrics just to satisfy the booked show - you would have people screaming for their money back saying they didn't get the "full show", and the press would crucify him. So that isn't a really valid option. The people who have bought tickets want the show they paid for, and if it means delaying a few days to deliver this then that doesn't seem too unreasonable. unique said: It sounds like it's an excuse for something else, as i really can't believe that one of the largest concert promoters in the entire world, plus all the other "top rated" producers that are involved can't pull this off with the six weeks to go, but can do it with only another 4 days? i can't understand if MJ doesn't feel he will be ready in 6 weeks, that he thinks he will be ready with another 4 days. based on the concert itinery, he could wing the first gig, keep on doing whatever they need to do for the extra 4 days and be ready properly for the second gig, or the third gig. those seeing him on the first show will be so fucking pleased to see him he could turn up on stage in a bin liner with his back to the stage and just play his cd and they would be happy, so they wouldn't notice if the first show wasn't 100% ready does no-one else think how strange that seems? Again there are more than just people who you say would be happy if he turned up in a bin liner on stage and played a cd going to the first show. This opening night will get so much press and be so scrutinised you can see the pressure of it already building. No matter what the show is people will still find something to be critical off - it's even starting before the shows have even begun. And trust me the press would notice if the show wasn't fully ready. And as an artist you have to respect their integrity to want to put on the best show they can. unique said: it stinks of a coverup to me, particularly considering all the other news reports regarding his health, or about him only attending two rehearsals. if that's true, then what the fuck else has he been doing with his time? going shopping for toys and ugly antiques that he can't afford to pay for unless he starts working again. whilst most of the stories are probably a load of crap, there's usually no smoke without a fire, and from someone who reads a lot of celebrity gossip, whilst there is a fair dash of bullshit, you can usually get to the truth within time, and it's usually the same group of people finding out the gossip and reporting it, so if only half of it is true, you have to consider that perhaps half of what is reported in the tabloids is also true, maybe not exactly how the media reports it, so he may not have skin problem, two missing legs and the elephant mans replacement lung, but maybe he does have health related issues that are causing a problem, and due to AEG being refused insurance past the initial 10 shows, 4 of which are now postponed, AEG could be shitting themselves that they are going to be faced with making a tremendous loss if this doesn't come through for them, so they are doing whatever they can to cover up the real story so they don't suffer so badly Pure speculation. And you have to take all reports with a grain of salt and apply the same level of skepticism you have applied to the AEG statements too right? There have been numerous reports of MJ working with the dancers, the band, set designers, special effect technicians - so chances are it was more than 2 days right? As for the insurance issue - AEG have stated they have coverage for the first initial 23 shows not 10 as you state, and are seeking extra coverage for the remaining shows. unique said: AEG are well known for particularly dodgy practices, and i mentioned a few weeks ago how they held back a large number of unsold tickets to the shows, so it sounds to me that "production issues" is just a plain lie to hide the real problem, which is the star of the show himself. whether it's physical health problems, like his back, his skin, his face, his lung, or simply old age, or mental problems, perhaps as simple as a phobia or hangup about appearing back on stage again after so long, the only real reason the show couldn't be organised in the original time frame is down to one person, and his health issues appear to stand out as the reason for this. it has been mentioned that he is stressed out over the recent lawsuit stories, so there are numerous stories about his physical and mental health, and he's been seen numerous times in hospital/doctors buildings, not a place someone would go for fun, and he tried to delay his court appearances a few years ago by claiming ill health, or was he lying about that, and now he genuinely is ill, but is now lying to saw he is fine? or has AEG to lie for him this time? or does anyone have a better explanation? Ok I think the "held back" tickets you mentioned a few weeks back were actually your observation of the Prince 21 nights shows right? I am unaware if AEG have held back tickets for these shows, but promoters generally do hold back a section of tickets for each show for their own contacts, record companies etc. I don't see what one has to do with the other issue of delaying the start date. As for his health issues. There are a few possibilites. A - that he is being treated for health issues (be it skin cancer, lupus, whatever) and it's been ramped up in lead up for the tour. B - that as part of the additional insurance requirements - you brought these up in the previous paragraph - that he is also doing additional health checks to get the additional insurance. As for what his health issues are - unless he comes out with a statement it is all rumour and conjecture. For me I think there is a degree of first show nerves creeping in. I think Michael knows how much is banking on this and he wants to deliver. I think he may be suffering nerves from putting on the best show ever, and the expectations to do so - and I think these may be the real reasons for the delay. A mix of nerves (that will be overcome) and a desire to get it right before opening night - something that perhaps due to the evolution of the show couldn't be achieved with just one day of in venue rehearsal, so they bought more time. This may be, as you suggest, a better explanation. Swa [Edited 5/21/09 18:36pm] "I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love" | |
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musicjunky318 said: Michael Jackson - Thinks he is bigger than Elvis and the Beatles
Michael Jackson, who begins his This is It concert run at the O2 arena in London this summer, apparently thinks he is bigger than the Beatles and Elvis. I am told that the alleged King of (kiddie) Poop will perform one song (I wasn’t told which one) that will compare his achievements with Elvis and the Beatles and will show how Michael is on top. The performance allegedly ends with the statement “King of Rock, Pop, and Soul” flashing on the screen. If all this is true, Michael Jackson is even more of a joke than people ever though he was. Not only did he weasel his way out of two child molestation cases, but his comebacks have been laughable. Back in 1995, Michael Jackson began a Nazi like campaign complete with statues of himself that sailed all over the world. His attempts to top the charts failed miserably, although he was able to get a number one single – You Are Not Alone – by deep discounting the single to ninety-nince cents, one third the cost of regular singles. In 2001, Michael held a concert dedication to himself at Madison Square Garden in New York City, complete with several special guests to boost his credibility. The television ratings for the concert were very high, but the reviews were brutal. His album Invincible, released around the same time, was an international bomb. If Michael Jackson is the “musical genius” he and his fans claim he is, then why can’t he just sit down, write his own songs (without relying on several hip producers), play his own instruments, and launch an album without the desperate amount of self-produced hype he usually puts forward? Don’t get me wrong: Michael Jackson was an entertainment phenomenon during the 1980s. However, his relevance and success has considerably dwindled since the early nineties. Elvis Presley may have died and the Beatles may have split up, but both acts can still be mentioned without laughing. Mentioning Michael Jackson's name these days not only brings laughs, but gasps of disgust as well. LA Gossip Examiner This article has been posted at least twice already "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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Swa said: unique said: and randy phillips was one of the AEG guys named by prince in march for the shit sound during the LA shows, now he's one of the guys in charge of this fiasco. it sounds like he couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery two things spring to mind, either those in charge are professionally incompetant not to be able to organise this properly, particularly considering that the shows were due to start in six weeks, and the delay of the first show is only 4 days. what the fuck could possibly be such a problem that can't be sorted in six weeks, but needs exactly four more days on top of those six weeks to fix? i've never heard anything so fucking ridiculous in my life. if it's all about the benjamins, surely they could make some concessions for the first show. all they need is for MJ to turn up and sing some fucking songs, or mime them if he can't do that. he can use teleprompts if he can't remember the lyrics, or just mime and stick his hand over his mouth like he did on previous tours. if he hasn't remembered the dance routines he can just stand still or do something impromtu. surely the backing dancers and band don't need an extra 4 days, so they could wing it and cover for everything else. if it's lights or some physical element of the stage that needs done, they can work a bit of overtime. surely they can squeeze 96 extra hours of work into six weeks? Well when staging an event of this magnitude in a fixed venue you want to make sure everything is working perfectly, especially for opening night when the eyes of the world press are on you. There would be some occupational health and safety issues to cover off, some final staging and also some lighting issues to cover off. And also to rehearse in the venue isn't such a ludicrous thing now is it? Do they need 5 days, I don't know. But you would expect that they would have more than one day. I recently watched the Cirque de Soliel Love documentary and they were even pushed for time with a few months of in venue rehearsals. As for Michael just turning up on stage and singing with none of the promised theatrics just to satisfy the booked show - you would have people screaming for their money back saying they didn't get the "full show", and the press would crucify him. So that isn't a really valid option. The people who have bought tickets want the show they paid for, and if it means delaying a few days to deliver this then that doesn't seem too unreasonable. Pure speculation. And you have to take all reports with a grain of salt and apply the same level of skepticism you have applied to the AEG statements too right? There have been numerous reports of MJ working with the dancers, the band, set designers, special effect technicians - so chances are it was more than 2 days right? As for the insurance issue - AEG have stated they have coverage for the first initial 23 shows not 10 as you state, and are seeking extra coverage for the remaining shows. unique said: AEG are well known for particularly dodgy practices, and i mentioned a few weeks ago how they held back a large number of unsold tickets to the shows, so it sounds to me that "production issues" is just a plain lie to hide the real problem, which is the star of the show himself. whether it's physical health problems, like his back, his skin, his face, his lung, or simply old age, or mental problems, perhaps as simple as a phobia or hangup about appearing back on stage again after so long, the only real reason the show couldn't be organised in the original time frame is down to one person, and his health issues appear to stand out as the reason for this. it has been mentioned that he is stressed out over the recent lawsuit stories, so there are numerous stories about his physical and mental health, and he's been seen numerous times in hospital/doctors buildings, not a place someone would go for fun, and he tried to delay his court appearances a few years ago by claiming ill health, or was he lying about that, and now he genuinely is ill, but is now lying to saw he is fine? or has AEG to lie for him this time? or does anyone have a better explanation? Ok I think the "held back" tickets you mentioned a few weeks back were actually your observation of the Prince 21 nights shows right? I am unaware if AEG have held back tickets for these shows, but promoters generally do hold back a section of tickets for each show for their own contacts, record companies etc. I don't see what one has to do with the other issue of delaying the start date. As for his health issues. There are a few possibilites. A - that he is being treated for health issues (be it skin cancer, lupus, whatever) and it's been ramped up in lead up for the tour. B - that as part of the additional insurance requirements - you brought these up in the previous paragraph - that he is also doing additional health checks to get the additional insurance. As for what his health issues are - unless he comes out with a statement it is all rumour and conjecture. For me I think there is a degree of first show nerves creeping in. I think Michael knows how much is banking on this and he wants to deliver. I think he may be suffering nerves from putting on the best show ever, and the expectations to do so - and I think these may be the real reasons for the delay. A mix of nerves (that will be overcome) and a desire to get it right before opening night - something that perhaps due to the evolution of the show couldn't be achieved with just one day of in venue rehearsal, so they bought more time. This may be, as you suggest, a better explanation. Swa [Edited 5/21/09 18:36pm] of course staging an event like this you want everything to work properly so need time to setup, test and rehearse, but that's a basic and standard part of procedure in arranging any event of this kind, you factor in all of that at the initial planning stage. when organising a bigger or more important event you would take greater care to ensure there is sufficient time for this. for these shows you have some of the biggest names in business putting things together, they have known about this since around january and confirmed to the public in march, yet they six weeks before the show they have assessed that they need 4 more days. does that not sound odd to you? do you see where i'm coming from here? and as i mentioned before, tabloid and gossip stories are usually exagerated, but through time the truth starts to filter through, there is usually no smoke without a fire, so whilst reports say he has only attended rehearsals twice, as you say he may have attended more, but the main element of the story appears to be that he simply isn't putting in the effort that you would expect from a major event. the reports you refer to about him attending come from the same type of outlets as those who say he doesn't, so it's a case of selective acceptance of what you wish to believe, but choosing to believe posts on twitter instead of those on well known media sites is going from one extreme to another. the media sites have a reputation to uphold and wouldn't be followed if none of the stories they printed were true. whilst many sites will print unsubstantiated reports at the outset so they can be first with the news, as time ticks on they update the stories and will confirm if the stories are ultimately proven as wrong. we can't be certain how many rehearsals he's attended, or what the problem is that requires him to attend medical centres so frequently, but what we can access is that with all these reports, there seems to be some kind of problem in these areas now when i mention he could appear on stage in a bin bag and some people will be happy with it, i was using an extreme example. out of however many months organisation and rehearsing, with still six weeks to go, surely 4 days wouldn't be the life or death of the show making the difference between success and failure, especially not considering the talents behind this, and the money and resources to hand. it's understandable that they would want to setup and rehearse in the o2, but that is a standard part of planning and should have been setup in the initial stages. prince rehearsed at the o2 the day and night before the opening show, and again in the afternoon before the show, so if AEG arranged it for prince, why wouldn't they arrange it for MJ, and then realise late on in the game and delay shows so he could do it. it doesn't sound like that's what happened to me if all this talent and money and power can't pull together the final stages of a show in six weeks to put together an acceptable show, i can't see how they can do it in 4 extra days. they can surely wing it as i've mentioned, and with that talent, surely few would notice this, with 4 days less time i can't see the show turning out a disaster that would have the press up in arms, and 4 days later the show would be perfect. if the shows have "sold out" as claimed, what difference does it make if he has bad press or not? MJ apparently doesn't read or watch the news or care about reporting about himself, and he's hardly had a single word of good press in the last 20 years so what difference would it make? his fans would surely write it off as bullshit, like they have done with everything else from his child molestation cases to his bankruptcy stories. the rest of the general public really wouldn't give two shits. people would still go and see him regardless of the reviews, as long as they think he might turn up, but the worst thing that could happen is if they lose faith in the belief that he will attend on the dates that are booked, if they start rescheduling shows it's a nightmare for people regarding the unsold tickets, it's actually not speculation, i just can't say much about that issue as it's a sensitive and confidential issue. you just have to accept what i've said, and i completely understand it if the fans here choose not to believe it, as they don't like to accept anything negative even if it's the plain truth. what i would say is that i usually try and make it clear what is fact from what is my opinion, and don't present opinions as facts. now although there are many unsold tickets, once released on sale they will get snapped up quickly, particularly as the original sale "sold out" so fast, and time has passed, and show dates get closer, they will sell out regardless of the show reviews as you have a mix of fans who want to see him, and members of the public who view him as car crash television, or the circus freak. he's one of the few artists in that situation, a bit like pete docherty or amy winehouse, where you either get a show, or you can say you were there the night that something happened, the music being almost irrelevant | |
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"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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unique said: of course staging an event like this you want everything to work properly so need time to setup, test and rehearse, but that's a basic and standard part of procedure in arranging any event of this kind, you factor in all of that at the initial planning stage. when organising a bigger or more important event you would take greater care to ensure there is sufficient time for this. for these shows you have some of the biggest names in business putting things together, they have known about this since around january and confirmed to the public in march, yet they six weeks before the show they have assessed that they need 4 more days. does that not sound odd to you? do you see where i'm coming from here? Agree more care should have been taken in the initial planning. But as the show has evolved and what Michael & co want to present, isn't it also possible that the soon realised that time was against them, and with the O2 heavily booked in the lead up to the show they had to make a call. Either put on the show that was 70-80% right on opening night - and have the press and fans (and critics) concentrate on the 20-30% that wasn't or buy an extra few days of in venue rehearsal and get it 100% right. With so much riding on opening night I can understand why they would choose the latter. unique said: and as i mentioned before, tabloid and gossip stories are usually exagerated, but through time the truth starts to filter through, there is usually no smoke without a fire, so whilst reports say he has only attended rehearsals twice, as you say he may have attended more, but the main element of the story appears to be that he simply isn't putting in the effort that you would expect from a major event. the reports you refer to about him attending come from the same type of outlets as those who say he doesn't, so it's a case of selective acceptance of what you wish to believe, but choosing to believe posts on twitter instead of those on well known media sites is going from one extreme to another. the media sites have a reputation to uphold and wouldn't be followed if none of the stories they printed were true. whilst many sites will print unsubstantiated reports at the outset so they can be first with the news, as time ticks on they update the stories and will confirm if the stories are ultimately proven as wrong. we can't be certain how many rehearsals he's attended, or what the problem is that requires him to attend medical centres so frequently, but what we can access is that with all these reports, there seems to be some kind of problem in these areas Well first off you have to look at the source for these statements. As you have mentioned many of the rumours and gossip around these are untrue. And the "selective acceptance" of outlets, as you put it, goes both ways. People who only focus on the negative output of those outlets, and only focus on the rumours as also just as biased as those who automatically dismiss them. Personally I weigh things up, check how credible the source has been in the past, and then draw my own conclusion. But some of the sites that have been posting rely on gossip and rumour in place of facts. And sadly, unlike you assert, many do not both to go back and correct their untrue stories as they are too swept up on following the next one. By your argument, on opening night there will be a slew of press coverage dedicated solely to correcting the false stories - ooops there was no elephant, no avery, no cloning device, no song linking MJ to the beatles and elvis, no appearance and duet by his son Prince. If this were the case then a whole newspaper would have to be produced. I agree with you that "we can't be certain how many rehearsals he's attended, or what the problem is that requires him to attend medical centres so frequently, but what we can access is that with all these reports, there seems to be some kind of problem in these areas". This though is the problem. Because so much of this show is surrounded in secrecy, many are having to invent or stretch a tidbit into a story. The reports do not by their mere existence make things real, but when taken in their totality seem to suggest greater contradiction in a desire to be first with a breaking story. unique said: now when i mention he could appear on stage in a bin bag and some people will be happy with it, i was using an extreme example. out of however many months organisation and rehearsing, with still six weeks to go, surely 4 days wouldn't be the life or death of the show making the difference between success and failure, especially not considering the talents behind this, and the money and resources to hand. it's understandable that they would want to setup and rehearse in the o2, but that is a standard part of planning and should have been setup in the initial stages. prince rehearsed at the o2 the day and night before the opening show, and again in the afternoon before the show, so if AEG arranged it for prince, why wouldn't they arrange it for MJ, and then realise late on in the game and delay shows so he could do it. it doesn't sound like that's what happened to me. As i didn't see the Prince O2 show I can't comment, but it appears that that staging in the MJ show is more advanced and more in line with say the Beatles Love show in Vegas. With that in mind then I can understand the need for more time to test the show out in the venue. I personally think that they probably only need 2-3 days of in venue rehearsal to test everything out and ensure the show will go off without a hitch. The extra days are just safeguards which are there should they need them. unique said: if all this talent and money and power can't pull together the final stages of a show in six weeks to put together an acceptable show, i can't see how they can do it in 4 extra days. they can surely wing it as i've mentioned, and with that talent, surely few would notice this, with 4 days less time i can't see the show turning out a disaster that would have the press up in arms, and 4 days later the show would be perfect. if the shows have "sold out" as claimed, what difference does it make if he has bad press or not? MJ apparently doesn't read or watch the news or care about reporting about himself, and he's hardly had a single word of good press in the last 20 years so what difference would it make? his fans would surely write it off as bullshit, like they have done with everything else from his child molestation cases to his bankruptcy stories. the rest of the general public really wouldn't give two shits. people would still go and see him regardless of the reviews, as long as they think he might turn up, but the worst thing that could happen is if they lose faith in the belief that he will attend on the dates that are booked, if they start rescheduling shows it's a nightmare for people I disagree. I think the worst thing that could happen would be for a substandard show be launched on opening night while the world is watching. No reviewer is going to say "the show will no doubt get better over the next few performances, I'll hold off my review until then". Instead we would see "The Show is Bad! Really really Bad!" headlines that would be a marketing nightmare and would carry a negative impression beyond those with tickets to the shows and would also threaten the appeal of future dates around the world. unique said: regarding the unsold tickets, it's actually not speculation, i just can't say much about that issue as it's a sensitive and confidential issue. you just have to accept what i've said, and i completely understand it if the fans here choose not to believe it, as they don't like to accept anything negative even if it's the plain truth. what i would say is that i usually try and make it clear what is fact from what is my opinion, and don't present opinions as facts. now although there are many unsold tickets, once released on sale they will get snapped up quickly, particularly as the original sale "sold out" so fast, and time has passed, and show dates get closer, they will sell out regardless of the show reviews as you have a mix of fans who want to see him, and members of the public who view him as car crash television, or the circus freak. he's one of the few artists in that situation, a bit like pete docherty or amy winehouse, where you either get a show, or you can say you were there the night that something happened, the music being almost irrelevant I will take you on your word on this. But that is an AEG Live issue, not an artist issue. As I have mentioned many promoters will hold back tickets to shows to sell to other outlets or to comp to various customers. Like I discussed this in an AEG issue not an Michael one as he wouldn't have control over how the tickets are sold or when. At the end of the day what we are talking about is the 5 day delay. From what I can gather your issue in a nutshell is "they should have their act together by now, what will a few more days matter". My viewpoint is if they want to ensure opening night goes off without a hitch, then a few more days will matter. I also agree it is disappointing that they aren't as far along as they had hoped to be. But I don't see it all as a sign of future scrapping of the shows in their entirety. I guess we agree to disagree and lets leave it at that. I do feel sorry for those fans who thought they were getting to see the 2nd, 3rd, 4th show, and now find out they have tickets to the 48th, 49th, and 50th show. That to me is the real issue here and those are the folks that have a right to be pissed to the max. Swa "I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love" | |
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seeingvoices12 said: unique said: i'm not quite sure what your point is what is interesting, is i see people making posts that are replied with comments such as "bullshit" etc, which is fair enough as they usually have another extreme view from the MJ fanatics, and stretch the boundaries of truth a little, to say the least, but the main point being that they have a different viewpoint from the MJ fanatics, and i say fanatic as fan is short for fanatic, and i would say i am fanatical about some things, thus there is no shame in being fanatical about things that you feel that way about but i note that when i raise several points for discussion, which are based on well thought out and factually backed issues, they are ignored usually, which can only lead me to believe that i'm getting close to a truth that the fanatics know is correct, but don't wish to accept interestingly, after i post various points, further evidence appears to back up my points, yet still the fanatics overlook these thus i ask again, from my earlier post, could you please give me your comments on the issues i've raised, as i'm interested in hearing your point of view, and likewise the other fanatics who post here it seems to me that this "tour" or string of concerts is as i've mentioned before, not something that MJ has a real interest in doing, if he has any interest at all, and it's simply something he's been forced into accepting for financial reasons, and something that ultimately looks like is not going to happen in the end it sounds like this is something that randy phillips has persuaded AEG to press ahead with, which MJ has no interest or inclination of fulfilling and from the outset, i've put across several thought out points which has directed towards this, which have came under disbelief and denial from fanatics, yet the simple facts that have came to light later have strengthened these points, and it looks even less likely now that the concerts will go ahead as planned, or i should perhaps now say tha as the concerts won't go ahead as planned due to rescheduling, that they won't go ahead as per the new schedule MJ has effectively assfucked his biggest fanatics and shit in thier mouths with his, or is it AEG's? rescheduling, so maybe some of the fanatics will finally open thier eyes to this and wake up and smell the coffee, and get around to discussing things in a realistic manner, instead of a farsically optimistic way that's more appropriate for those detained for mental health reasons wouldn't it be nice to disuss MJ in an honest and realistic manner without the stupid fanatical bias? we discuss prince 24/7/365 in that manner,and this is a prince site, full of his fans, so why can't we discuss other artists without bias? if you want to discuss MJ in a biased manner full of optimism and without any negative comments, then i'm sure most MJ sites will welcome you with a can of jesus juice and a warm bed, but it's ridiculous to expect that sort of behaviour here can't we jsut discuss MJ in an open and honest and unbiased manner, just like any other subject is discussed on this site? and don't forget, i want you all to comment honestly and openly on the points i made in my original post, rathe than comment on this post, please don't skate around the issue, answer that and then answer this, one thing first, and onc we start to get on the same page we can maybe start to get into more interesting discussions on topics i've been dying to get to, regarding the music, and not the superficial If you stop posting crap articles about Mj especially those with horrible pictures with dollor signs all over his face then I will take you seriously as a poster, the fact that your post history doesn't prove in anyway that your want to objectively discuss MJ, the problem is with you sir not Mj fans, thats why they overlook your statements and don't take them seriously. let's be clear, the articles you refer to are not mine, they are cut and pasted from other sites, the pictures included, i don't have the time or inclination to edit them, that is how they appear on those sites, and i usually post the direct link. people are interesting in reading these articles, otherwise they wouldn't be written in the first place. in general on this website, when it comes to prince in particular, people post articles about him, good or bad, simply to collate the news, make people aware of it, and let people discuss it if they want. there are many negative articles posted about prince, but no-one normally gives two shits about it, let alone get their panties in a twist over it, and that's regarding the main subject of this website. if people can be impartial and unbiased towards the main subject of a fan site, surely people can be expected to do the same when it comes to other subjects? people naturally have views on various issues, but there seems to be a tremendous resistance to accept the truth or any conflicting viewpoint with the mention of MJ on this site, which is alarming. i don't consider the MJ fans who post here to be the biggest MJ fans, as i would expect the biggest fans to stick to discussing him on MJ sites, and not take any discussions seriously on other sites, particularly not fansites of other artists, in the same way as i wouldn't bother discussing prince on a MJ site, or other general non prince sites. thus from that perspective, if the posters here aren't the biggest fans, based on some of the postings on this thread which underline the reasons why MJ and his fans aren't taken seriously by the majority of the public, i can't possibly imagine the levels of lunacy and denial that unfold on MJ forums if you don't understand or accept what i'm saying, read back this thread from the point of view of an observer and then try and tell me that MJ fans appear to be represented in a sane and unbiased manner. i'm not saying that the fans are lunatics as some have suggested, my point is that you can't blame people for thinking that way after reading what is posted here. i don't know if you have seen the recent documentary about MJ's auction, but it shows that MJ appears to have more than a few screws loose, and his fans seem to share his deluded and irrational point of view. and that's a recent documentary during a time when MJ isn't at his peak. further back i've seen other documentaries that show exactly the same thing, fans not only dressing up and wearing makeup to look like him - both male and female, but getting plastic surgery to look like him. unlike the elvis impersonators who do the same, but with a large chunk of irony and irreverance, those portrayed in the shows exhibition nothing but completely delusional views in what they are doing, almost as if they have been brainwashed. it's for these reasons that people find it hard to take MJ fans seriously, and you guys on the prince forums here don't do yourself any favours to be taken seriously by the way you post and react to posts. if a more open minded approach with less bias was taken, then perhaps people would take the replies more seriously you refer to my post history not mentioning MJ much apart from these threads, well that's your answer. trying to discuss the topics MJ's music in an unbiased manner here would be like trying to discuss racial harmony with the KKK or evolution with opus dei. i've tried discussing his catalogue and unreleased works in a serious manner, but the replies were of the opinion that his shit doesn't stink, when it clearly does. if i raised the same questions about prince on these forums i would get an honest,varied and detailed reply, without any defensive replies, but i can't get the same about MJ, although i imagine i could with probably any other artist and for the record, i may not have a definitively complete jacksons media collection, but i have a very comprehensive one to say the least, and i imagine it's probably far more comprehensive than the majority of MJ fans here, if not all of them, and it would certainly make most MJ fans on any of his own forums jealous, so i'm well aware of his work from the early days, the outtakes,remixes, live work, tv appearances, and albums and remixes from the other members of his family, including the albums that you really wouldn't ever want to listen to again, so when i discuss the music or performances, i speak from an experienced and informed viewpoint, and perhaps more experienced than most of the posters here and one other point to clarify, fan is short for fanatic, although i would usually consider a casual fan who has most main albums etc as simply a fan, they aren't a particularly big or hardcore follower, whereas i would seperate what i would consider the true fans, the harder cored collectors, as fanatics, as they are fanatical about the subject. as i said before, i consider myself to be a prince fanatic, and one of the biggest there is, but my fanatisism of prince is nothing compared to the deluded state that some MJ fans exhibit. you wouldn't catch me in a pair of high heels or lovesexy styled outfit, and if prince releases a shit track, i'll let you know about it. i'll clearly seperate the good from the bad when it comes to my favourite artist, and like most prince fans, i'm not afraid to be vocal about it. now what is it about MJ fans that prevents them from doing the same? why do they exhibit similar characteristics about hiding and denying things as MJ does himself? prince fans don't usually copy the same characteristics as him, in fact these days it appears pretty much the opposite, it's almost like the fans battle prince and his attempts to shut down the fans. the very nature of fandom interests me almost as much as the subject of interest itself. for years i've been fascinated by beatlemania, elvis mania, and michael jackson for example, and how they are portrayed by the media, and how they influence and react to fans. i don't have to be a fan of the artist's work to be fascinated by the mania, it's almost like a modern day freak show, but we can view the show from our armchairs in front of our tv's and computers. the whole media circus revolving around MJ is an interesting one, thus my comments regarding this, and the reporting of articles i find of interest that others haven't yet posted | |
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bboy87 said: I love these behind the scenes sneak peaks. It's what made the Classic Albums series so appealing, seeing how the recording process took place. Swa "I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love" | |
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Swa said: unique said: of course staging an event like this you want everything to work properly so need time to setup, test and rehearse, but that's a basic and standard part of procedure in arranging any event of this kind, you factor in all of that at the initial planning stage. when organising a bigger or more important event you would take greater care to ensure there is sufficient time for this. for these shows you have some of the biggest names in business putting things together, they have known about this since around january and confirmed to the public in march, yet they six weeks before the show they have assessed that they need 4 more days. does that not sound odd to you? do you see where i'm coming from here? Agree more care should have been taken in the initial planning. But as the show has evolved and what Michael & co want to present, isn't it also possible that the soon realised that time was against them, and with the O2 heavily booked in the lead up to the show they had to make a call. Either put on the show that was 70-80% right on opening night - and have the press and fans (and critics) concentrate on the 20-30% that wasn't or buy an extra few days of in venue rehearsal and get it 100% right. With so much riding on opening night I can understand why they would choose the latter. I disagree. I think the worst thing that could happen would be for a substandard show be launched on opening night while the world is watching. No reviewer is going to say "the show will no doubt get better over the next few performances, I'll hold off my review until then". Instead we would see "The Show is Bad! Really really Bad!" headlines that would be a marketing nightmare and would carry a negative impression beyond those with tickets to the shows and would also threaten the appeal of future dates around the world. unique said: regarding the unsold tickets, it's actually not speculation, i just can't say much about that issue as it's a sensitive and confidential issue. you just have to accept what i've said, and i completely understand it if the fans here choose not to believe it, as they don't like to accept anything negative even if it's the plain truth. what i would say is that i usually try and make it clear what is fact from what is my opinion, and don't present opinions as facts. now although there are many unsold tickets, once released on sale they will get snapped up quickly, particularly as the original sale "sold out" so fast, and time has passed, and show dates get closer, they will sell out regardless of the show reviews as you have a mix of fans who want to see him, and members of the public who view him as car crash television, or the circus freak. he's one of the few artists in that situation, a bit like pete docherty or amy winehouse, where you either get a show, or you can say you were there the night that something happened, the music being almost irrelevant I will take you on your word on this. But that is an AEG Live issue, not an artist issue. As I have mentioned many promoters will hold back tickets to shows to sell to other outlets or to comp to various customers. Like I discussed this in an AEG issue not an Michael one as he wouldn't have control over how the tickets are sold or when. At the end of the day what we are talking about is the 5 day delay. From what I can gather your issue in a nutshell is "they should have their act together by now, what will a few more days matter". My viewpoint is if they want to ensure opening night goes off without a hitch, then a few more days will matter. I also agree it is disappointing that they aren't as far along as they had hoped to be. But I don't see it all as a sign of future scrapping of the shows in their entirety. I guess we agree to disagree and lets leave it at that. I do feel sorry for those fans who thought they were getting to see the 2nd, 3rd, 4th show, and now find out they have tickets to the 48th, 49th, and 50th show. That to me is the real issue here and those are the folks that have a right to be pissed to the max. Swa yes, ultimately, my view is that AEG and everyone involved should have put this together in the set timeframe, that's just basic principles of management, you have to work to given deadlines, which means making changes or cutbacks if necessary to reach the deadlines. this is a set of pop concerts, not a warplan. the shows ultimate point is a money making excersize, the concerts are simply the output that's required to make the bottom line. AEG are in business to make money, not to create or facilitate art, and it's the same with almost all businesses, profits are what counts. thus when you consider from that point of view, it's very strange that arrangements have been made to change an important and fixed deadline, instead of work to that deadline. the desire from fans to have the show as fantastic as possible is completely understandable, but also completely unrealistic, the fans are simply money making customers, and the show is designed to make as much profit as possible. they aren't going to be given those profits away to charity and considering his previous tours, and the involvement of some of the same people, i can't imagine what could possibly be required that would involve the delay. his previous tour stage setups weren't particularly special if you really sit back and think about it, just a standard stage and band setup like most other large scale touring bands, with minor extras that other shows wouldn't necesarily have. it certainly wasn't on scale of an event such as pink floyd's original 1980 wall concerts, and most certainly not on the scale of roger waters berlin show, which was arranged and put together with far less planning. he had a days rehearsal in a london studio, a days rehearsal in berlin, followed by a dress rehearsal the following day, and then the main show, so three days on location, including the show itself, and it was broadcast live on tv, and had many guest acts who hadn't performed with the band before, plus tanks and all sorts of other vehicles live on stage, and other video projections. MJ would have to do something unrealistically possible to top all of that in order to warrant and explain the delays. the entire concept of the delays and the explanation or lack of them is so ridiculous that it's unbelivable to the point where it can only be an excuse for another issue. really, how substandard can you honestly believe a show could be with 4 days less time when there are still six weeks to go? if he wanted 3 days of rehearsal time in the o2, surely they can make the venue available for that time or more, again in the initial planning stages this should have been thought out and arranged, regardless of how simple or not the stage show was. prince's stage show was fairly simple, he had a symbol based stage like the superbowl, it was made into various sections that could the locked together to make the stage, and then seperated to be moved away, under the stage were dressing room type facilities etc. above the stage were lights on expandible things like those shaving mirrors that pull out from the wall, so the lights could come down from the roof when required, and move back up when not needed. there weren't really any theatrics, the music and performance by prince was the only noticable thing, the lighting was discreet so as not to detract from prince. as far as i'm concerned, that's the kind of setup that would work best for MJ and his fans, his last tours were pretty much a basic stage design, what detracted the most from the shows was the stupid dissapearing acts when someone would wear the thriller mask and pretend to be MJ and the real MJ would appear on the other side of the stage, or the stuntman on the jetpack moved by a crane, wtf has that got to do with anything? just play the fucking songs and dance motherfucker! we can go to the circus if we want to see that shit, we're not 7 years old. people are paying money to see MJ sing and dance, not people pretending to be him doing things that are irrelevant. circ de solie is an interesting idea in that the circus is the main draw, and the music is the backing, but for an MJ concert, MJ and his music is the main draw, so anything else should take a back seat, and the production element should be arranged around the deadlines and the artist, not the other way around. these elements weren't advertised originally, people bought tickets to see MJ regardless, so they don't care about the superficial effects, so why delay the shows for something no-one expects or particularly wants as i said before, it just suggests that something else is wrong, but only time will tell. it makes you wonder if there is perhaps an element of truth in the 13 minute contract, and they are making a large scale production to make up for the lack of input from MJ himself. 13 minutes could be a couple of minutes singing time for a half a dozen different songs, slip offstage and let the dancers take care of most of the song? i certainly know what my best experiences of seeing prince have been when he is onstage alone or with as few musicians as possible, no dancers, no effects, just the music, and having seen other artists do the same, i could only imagine how it could be for MJ to do the same, such as in vegas, but the chances of getting more pure song and dance seem to be getting slimmer, which is a shame. if he put on an aftershow at the indigo2 that would be worth checking out, but it's something that's never going to happen i think part of the problem is that because the shows sold out, MJ has a renewed confidence from his fans and public, but instead of repaying them, he's fucked them over as his confidence has made him think he can get away with it. surely he would be in the position to ensure AEG can put the shows on time, and delaying the shows would have to be agreed by him, seeing as he is the main performer. thus ultimately he would have personally agreed to the change which has upset his fans so much. if he doesn't care about his fans to that degree, why should they care back. just look at all the prince fans that were pissed off when croke park was cancelled, and prince got the blame for that when it was entirely AEG's fault as they promoted and sold tickets to a concert without the artists agreement. this smacks of AEG pushing these shows ahead when MJ isn't ready or completely willing to do them. i imagine the 4 day postponment could be to test the waters to find out the reaction before things are postponed further, or even cancelled. postponing the first concert in particular, for the biggest and most dedicated fans is one of the worst things he could have done, the second is moving the rest of the shows back by 9 months. surely they could have squeezed them in between the other shows earlier on, it's not like the o2 is being used by other events in between, and 3 more shows fitted into 2 or 3 weeks would hardly break a sweat would it? | |
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Maybe it's already been said, but he postponed his concerts to March 2010
EDIT: Oh there's a whole thread about it [Edited 5/22/09 6:14am] | |
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MCP said: Maybe it's already been said, but he postponed his concerts to March 2010
EDIT: Oh there's a whole thread about it [Edited 5/22/09 6:14am] And he's only postponed 3 shows, fool! | |
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http://www.gigwise.com/ar...=2#gallery
Michael Jackson has spent a third straight day at a medical facility in Los Angeles, fuelling rumours once again that he is being treated for skin cancer.
The 50-year-old music icon was swamped by photographers as he left the Bedford Medical building yesterday. The visit came as The Sun newspaper claimed the singer had undergone a shave biopsy to remove potentially lethal growths on his body. Michael will find out next week whether he needs to have spot radiation treatment, the newspaper said. "It’s about waiting and praying now,"a source added. The 50-year-old star has denied he is suffering from skin cancer. AEG president Randy Phillips said the singer was "in great shape". Michael has been forced to delay his comeback gigs in London this summer by four days. The opening show will take place on July 13, while the following three gigs have been moved to March 2010. The postponement, which has been criticised by ticket holders, is not because of the singer's health, promoters said. [Edited 5/22/09 8:11am] | |
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Swa said: midnightmover said: Just bringing the truth as usual. No one else does, so I thought I'd better fill in the gap for y'all. Michael was forced into these gigs by impending financial catastrophe, but he dreads performing and is panicking as the dates get closer. He is backed into a corner with nowhere to turn. Like I said, the chickens are coming home to roost. Actually you're not bringing "the truth". The truth is that shows have been postponed and rescheduled. Everything else is conjecture. Now I know many posters on here love to revel in the negative, just as some also fly to the extreme of he can do no wrong. I just expect that both sides man up and admit when they are wrong, or when their statements are incorrect. The shows haven't started yet. So anyone saying he won't perform them is just baiting and speculating - or rather nay saying. Now I do feel for all those people who have paid money in booking hotels, and airfares. And tickets will be refunded if people can't make the rescheduled events. But reality is most hotels will transfer bookings, and the majority of airlines (depending on what type of fare you purchased) offer flexibility to change dates. Do I think the concerts will go ahead. Yes. Do I think people will want him to fail. Yes. Do I think there will be postponed shows - it's likely as it is with any act (see Depeche Mode's recent cancellations for evidence). If the whole series of concerts are cancelled will I man up and admit I was wrong on here - indeed Yes. If the shows go on will those who want to bask in failure, give props... time will tell. Swa Your attempts to pose as an objective observer are not very convincing. Everything I said is based on logical observation. Michael is doing these shows only for money. That is obvious. The decline in his abilities is also obvious. Michael also has a long track-record of being unreliable. To ignore these facts or to brush them aside speaks of delusion. [Edited 5/22/09 10:29am] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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Swa said: bboy87 said: I love these behind the scenes sneak peaks. It's what made the Classic Albums series so appealing, seeing how the recording process took place. Swa And great anecdotes & quotes by Bruce . Funny when the tv-makers had Bruce's face glow with a flash when he shortly sang : "Starlight !" like in the pic below And that closet with tapes is a holy grail [Edited 5/22/09 10:06am] | |
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"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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seeingvoices12 said: midnightmover said: Dude, I had not insulted you or anyone on that thread. I only made one post which didn't mention anyone other than Michael. There was no excuse for your insane outbursts. You only confirmed the worst stereotypes about MJ fans. And the fact that you tried to say it was ME who got the thread shut down speaks volumes about your slipperiness. And please do not ask to be treated like a grown-up when you behave like such a brat. Like your idol, you need to take a look at the man in the mirror. Your problem lies right there. LOL, according to you , All mj fans are stupid and loons,there is just something wrong with you when it comes to MJ, I respect your opinion on non-mj topics,I think you does have a brain but you obviously don't know when to use it. [Edited 5/21/09 13:21pm] I repeat. I had insulted no-one on that thread when your colleague went crazy with rage. His behaviour proves everything I always say about MJ fans. They are often not right in the head. Many MJ fans admit this themselves. And there is nothing wrong with me when it comes to MJ. He used to be great, but eventually his demons got the better of him, and unfortunately his talent also deserted him. My assessment is the only logical one based on a knowledge of the facts. You guys are simply too attached to him to be able to see the unpleasant truths. [Edited 5/22/09 10:53am] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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Jacko Visits Dr. AGAIN!
Filed under: Michael Jackson Michael Jackson was spotted leaving a medical building in Beverly Hills on Thursday. This is his 3rd visit in two weeks!!!! It was speculated that he was diagnosed with skin cancer but those rumors were recently denied. Maybe these visits are the reason behind his recent postponement of shows? What happened to the King of Pop? Get it together, Michael! http://perezhilton.com/20...s-dr-again | |
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PatrickS77 said: MCP said: Maybe it's already been said, but he postponed his concerts to March 2010
EDIT: Oh there's a whole thread about it And he's only postponed 3 shows, fool! No need for that. BTW I'd like to bet that more shows will be either postponed or cancelled. Do you dare? | |
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Video from Medical Building visit.
Look at how dumb the papz guys- "I touched you Michael again!" [Edited 5/22/09 12:25pm] | |
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midnightmover said: Swa said: Actually you're not bringing "the truth". The truth is that shows have been postponed and rescheduled. Everything else is conjecture. Now I know many posters on here love to revel in the negative, just as some also fly to the extreme of he can do no wrong. I just expect that both sides man up and admit when they are wrong, or when their statements are incorrect. The shows haven't started yet. So anyone saying he won't perform them is just baiting and speculating - or rather nay saying. Now I do feel for all those people who have paid money in booking hotels, and airfares. And tickets will be refunded if people can't make the rescheduled events. But reality is most hotels will transfer bookings, and the majority of airlines (depending on what type of fare you purchased) offer flexibility to change dates. Do I think the concerts will go ahead. Yes. Do I think people will want him to fail. Yes. Do I think there will be postponed shows - it's likely as it is with any act (see Depeche Mode's recent cancellations for evidence). If the whole series of concerts are cancelled will I man up and admit I was wrong on here - indeed Yes. If the shows go on will those who want to bask in failure, give props... time will tell. Swa Your attempts to pose as an objective observer are not very convincing. Everything I said is based on logical observation. Michael is doing these shows only for money. That is obvious. The decline in his abilities is also obvious. Michael also has a long track-record of being unreliable. To ignore these facts or to brush them aside speaks of delusion. [Edited 5/22/09 10:29am] you are the who wants to delude the fans to something that doesn't exist, the fact that you critisize every aspect of Mj's life or career is really belwidering to me,I don't remember your were positive about Mj for one single day, you always have something silly to say. and God, Other artists do concerts for free right? Eveyone works for money. inculding yourself. MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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seeingvoices12 said: midnightmover said: Your attempts to pose as an objective observer are not very convincing. Everything I said is based on logical observation. Michael is doing these shows only for money. That is obvious. The decline in his abilities is also obvious. Michael also has a long track-record of being unreliable. To ignore these facts or to brush them aside speaks of delusion. [Edited 5/22/09 10:29am] you are the who wants to delude the fans to something that doesn't exist, the fact that you critisize every aspect of Mj's life or career is really belwidering to me,I don't remember your were positive about Mj for one single day, you always have something silly to say. and God, Other artists do concerts for free right? Eveyone works for money. inculding yourself. the money crap again. please they have saying michael was broke since the 80"s if he's not on welfare yet he's never going to be. I realize what the haters problem is, they are scared that regardless of the few problems that are bound to happen, mj will excel and put on an excellent show. They no Mj is already more popular than prince and him doing something that will boost his reputation will only make them more insecure. so they hope and pray ( which to me is kind of scary that you could hate some one so much you hope they fail) the shows go bad, and that he lip syncs or breaks his back, blah blah blah. It's so sad that they feel the need constantly put someone down to make themselves feel better. The bottom line is he is probably not sick, he is probably just going to the doctor to make sure everything is in order, all the junk about him being to skinny is ridiculous cause the man has been anorexic looking his entire life and i doubt that it will make a difference now.And he does not have skin cancer. Just a few weeks ago those same news outlets were so sure he had some flesh eating bug. Wake up people don't you realize that people in the media and probably the haters here want him to be sick, once again because of the pathetic hatred [Edited 5/22/09 14:56pm] | |
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New article.
Some details were on it: This was kinda disturbing to read http://www.dailymail.co.u...certs.html Comeback king? Michael Jackson has managed TWO of 45 rehearsals for his £65m concerts If Michael had been rehearsing on time maybe they would not have had that problem, but Michael has not been to rehearsals. So what is the probability of the next shows being cancelled? High, I would say.
'Unless Michael starts showing up to rehearsal, this concert tour will never get off the ground. Whether he'll show up or not is anybody's guess.' The source adds that the Jackson family are all 'very concerned' at the situation and have been trying to help him through this crisis in the making. Jackson is especially close to his mother, Katherine, and speaks to her on at least a weekly basis. He says: 'I think this is horribly serious. You are looking at a $100million [£65million] tour - that is a lot of cash. Being irresponsible like this is unacceptable. The family is very concerned. It's a commotion and a storm that is preventing Michael from moving forward with his life. The family is telling him to get on with the tour.' That is certainly the fervent wish of Randy Phillips, the bullish chief executive of AEG Live, who persuaded Jackson to sign up to the tour deal and is now attempting to get him to deliver. But why did Phillips ever expect that Jackson would be physically capable of delivering a two-hour show - featuring all of his greatest hits - for 50 dates? That would be a gruelling commitment for the strongest performer, let alone a 50-year-old man in Jackson's frail condition. Concessions have been made: Phillips has organised the tour schedule so that the singer never has to perform on consecutive nights, and he will have the support of dozens of beautifully choreographed dancers. Even so, ever since Jackson's family heard of the full scale of the plans, they have felt that Michael will not be physically up to it. At first, the proposal had been for Michael to commit to only ten performances in total - which his family felt would be the most he could sensibly agree to. So when Michael seemed to have been pressured by public demand into adding a further 40 dates, the whole family were horrified. They aren't the only ones who are worried. AEG, who are staking millions on Jackson's residency at the O2, had immense trouble getting insurance for more than ten nights to protect them against financial loss should their star fail to perform. Quite simply, no one wanted to underwrite the risk of illness or cancellation because it was deemed so probable. After all, Jackson has broken financial deals in the past. In one case, which reached the High Court last year, a member of the Bahrain royal family, Sheikh Abdulla Bin Hamad Bin Isa Al-Khalifa, sued Jackson for reneging on a deal to produce an album, an autobiography and music for the Sheikh's record label. Jackson allegedly failed to honour those promises, and the Sheikh was seeking to be repaid £4.6million which he lavished on the star. The matter was eventually settled out of court. Small wonder then that insurers were nervous that Jackson would fail to honour his full commitments to the comeback tour. It was only when AEG's Randy Phillips took the colossal gamble of stating that he would insure the tour himself if necessary that another firm - believed to be specialist brokers Robertson Taylor - agreed to step in and offer to insure the first 23 dates. Even then, my understanding is that this is for production costs only. This leaves AEG exposed to refunding all ticket sales and other liabilities out of its own pocket - which could run into tens ofmillions of pounds. The financial gamble is the talk of the industry, but in an interview with Billboard magazine, Phillips said last week: 'AEG as a company was prepared to self-insure since we believe so greatly in Michael Jackson's talent and his willingness and his want to come back, perform for his fans again and get on the stage. 'We're negotiating for better insurance coverage and greater coverage past the first 23 shows, but we definitely have insurance.' He added that Jackson had passed the mandatory health and physical tests required under the terms of insurance 'with flying colours'. Why, then, have many of the London dates been postponed? In the press conference announcing the new schedule, Phillips insisted it was not to do with Jackson's health. 'I would trade my body for his tomorrow. He's in fantastic shape,' said the promoter. 'I've refuted all the crazy stories. He's not sleeping with elephants, he's not dying of skin cancer. You know, every day there's another story. I've never seen anything like that. He's a magnet for these weird stories that people make up.' He certainly is - the problem being that with Michael Jackson, some of the stories turn out to be true. One persistent rumour is that Jackson is having minor treatment for potentially cancerous lesions on his skin. But Jackson's new media representative Dr Tohme Tohme - a Lebanese businessman who has been mysteriously hired by the singer despite having no showbusiness experience - denies this. My source also rejects the story, saying that the only thing wrong with Jackson's skin is the vitiligo from which he has suffered for two decades and which has gradually affected the pigmentation of his skin. Even so, my source is adamant that Jackson is simply not fit enough for the demands of the tour. He says: 'Michael has pain in his back and that is the reason for the drugs. But it is obvious the painkillers have taken over his life.' His manner in meetings - he is reportedly absent-minded and not interested in any business matters - would appear to chime with reports that he is hooked on the prescription painkiller Demerol, following an accident in rehearsals for a 1993 tour. Furthermore, it is widely accepted that around this time he became dependent on the anti-anxiety medications Valium, Xanax and Ativan, and entered rehab. Many Jackson observers think he did not fully recover from this dependency. Certainly, he is physically frail - as recently as a year ago, he would go shopping in a wheelchair when he had a bad day. The truth is that Jackson was pretty much destroyed by his trial on charges of sex abuse in 2005 (a trial, incidentally, during which he spent much of the time in a wheelchair, claiming to be in serious pain from a broken vertebra in his back). Though he was cleared of all charges, the sordid details that emerged during the trial left him mentally and physically broken. He fled from sight, and remains very fragile. Jackson lives in his own bubble, surrounded by staff and protected by a permanent security team of five. Most days are spent earnestly playing with his children Prince Michael, Paris Katherine and Prince Michael II (known as Blanket). There is hardly any social life beyond the odd lunch with a family member, because Michael just isn't up to it. His chief hobby is shopping for books or furniture - which partly explains why his finances are in such a mess. Gallery owners around the world know Jackson to be an impulsive and compulsive spender, who will drop £50,000 on bronze sculptures, urns and paintings in just ten or 15 minutes - even when he cannot afford them. As ever with Jackson, he is embroiled in a financial crisis and a whole series of lawsuits, including one from his former manager and PR, Raymone Bain, who is suing him for £29million, and another from a promoter who claims that Jackson's manager had promised as recently as 2008 that he would do a tour with his brothers instead. He is deeply in debt, and since moving out of his Neverland ranch in 2005 has lived a rootless existence, staying in hotels and temporary accommodation around the world (his latest base is a rented home in LA). The temptations of a multi-million-pound comeback tour must have been considerable. Here was a means to escape his debts and to re-establish his reputation. But did he ever truly believe he was capable of such a grandiose scheme? Speaking to his friends, it is clear that Jackson honestly wants to do the London concerts. He believes his legacy is at stake - and he wants to be remembered as a great performer. And why not? It is easy to forget what a talent Michael Jackson had. He sincerely wishes to show his children what he is - or was - capable of. But his last attempt at a stage performance was the disastrous mess at the World Music Awards in 2006, when he sang two lines of We Are The World and appeared too confused to carry on. Meanwhile, plans for the London shows get more lavish by the day. Michael apparently wants elephants, monkeys and parrots to be part of the stage show. He also wants to fly over the stage and to sing a duet with his 12-year-old son, Prince Michael. 'This is one hell of a show,' enthuses Phillips. 'It's going to be worth the wait.' Everyone wants to see him play. But whether he will make it to the stage or not is, alas, still very far from certain. [Edited 5/22/09 15:56pm] [Edited 5/22/09 16:01pm] | |
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This thread has been over run by articles from Daily Mail, the Sun and the Examiner "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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suga10 said: New article.
Some details were on it: This was kinda disturbing to read http://www.dailymail.co.u...certs.html Comeback king? Michael Jackson has managed TWO of 45 rehearsals for his £65m concerts If Michael had been rehearsing on time maybe they would not have had that problem, but Michael has not been to rehearsals. So what is the probability of the next shows being cancelled? High, I would say.
'Unless Michael starts showing up to rehearsal, this concert tour will never get off the ground. Whether he'll show up or not is anybody's guess.' The source adds that the Jackson family are all 'very concerned' at the situation and have been trying to help him through this crisis in the making. Jackson is especially close to his mother, Katherine, and speaks to her on at least a weekly basis. He says: 'I think this is horribly serious. You are looking at a $100million [£65million] tour - that is a lot of cash. Being irresponsible like this is unacceptable. The family is very concerned. It's a commotion and a storm that is preventing Michael from moving forward with his life. The family is telling him to get on with the tour.' That is certainly the fervent wish of Randy Phillips, the bullish chief executive of AEG Live, who persuaded Jackson to sign up to the tour deal and is now attempting to get him to deliver. But why did Phillips ever expect that Jackson would be physically capable of delivering a two-hour show - featuring all of his greatest hits - for 50 dates? That would be a gruelling commitment for the strongest performer, let alone a 50-year-old man in Jackson's frail condition. Concessions have been made: Phillips has organised the tour schedule so that the singer never has to perform on consecutive nights, and he will have the support of dozens of beautifully choreographed dancers. Even so, ever since Jackson's family heard of the full scale of the plans, they have felt that Michael will not be physically up to it. At first, the proposal had been for Michael to commit to only ten performances in total - which his family felt would be the most he could sensibly agree to. So when Michael seemed to have been pressured by public demand into adding a further 40 dates, the whole family were horrified. They aren't the only ones who are worried. AEG, who are staking millions on Jackson's residency at the O2, had immense trouble getting insurance for more than ten nights to protect them against financial loss should their star fail to perform. Quite simply, no one wanted to underwrite the risk of illness or cancellation because it was deemed so probable. After all, Jackson has broken financial deals in the past. In one case, which reached the High Court last year, a member of the Bahrain royal family, Sheikh Abdulla Bin Hamad Bin Isa Al-Khalifa, sued Jackson for reneging on a deal to produce an album, an autobiography and music for the Sheikh's record label. Jackson allegedly failed to honour those promises, and the Sheikh was seeking to be repaid £4.6million which he lavished on the star. The matter was eventually settled out of court. Small wonder then that insurers were nervous that Jackson would fail to honour his full commitments to the comeback tour. It was only when AEG's Randy Phillips took the colossal gamble of stating that he would insure the tour himself if necessary that another firm - believed to be specialist brokers Robertson Taylor - agreed to step in and offer to insure the first 23 dates. Even then, my understanding is that this is for production costs only. This leaves AEG exposed to refunding all ticket sales and other liabilities out of its own pocket - which could run into tens ofmillions of pounds. The financial gamble is the talk of the industry, but in an interview with Billboard magazine, Phillips said last week: 'AEG as a company was prepared to self-insure since we believe so greatly in Michael Jackson's talent and his willingness and his want to come back, perform for his fans again and get on the stage. 'We're negotiating for better insurance coverage and greater coverage past the first 23 shows, but we definitely have insurance.' He added that Jackson had passed the mandatory health and physical tests required under the terms of insurance 'with flying colours'. Why, then, have many of the London dates been postponed? In the press conference announcing the new schedule, Phillips insisted it was not to do with Jackson's health. 'I would trade my body for his tomorrow. He's in fantastic shape,' said the promoter. 'I've refuted all the crazy stories. He's not sleeping with elephants, he's not dying of skin cancer. You know, every day there's another story. I've never seen anything like that. He's a magnet for these weird stories that people make up.' He certainly is - the problem being that with Michael Jackson, some of the stories turn out to be true. One persistent rumour is that Jackson is having minor treatment for potentially cancerous lesions on his skin. But Jackson's new media representative Dr Tohme Tohme - a Lebanese businessman who has been mysteriously hired by the singer despite having no showbusiness experience - denies this. My source also rejects the story, saying that the only thing wrong with Jackson's skin is the vitiligo from which he has suffered for two decades and which has gradually affected the pigmentation of his skin. Even so, my source is adamant that Jackson is simply not fit enough for the demands of the tour. He says: 'Michael has pain in his back and that is the reason for the drugs. But it is obvious the painkillers have taken over his life.' His manner in meetings - he is reportedly absent-minded and not interested in any business matters - would appear to chime with reports that he is hooked on the prescription painkiller Demerol, following an accident in rehearsals for a 1993 tour. Furthermore, it is widely accepted that around this time he became dependent on the anti-anxiety medications Valium, Xanax and Ativan, and entered rehab. Many Jackson observers think he did not fully recover from this dependency. Certainly, he is physically frail - as recently as a year ago, he would go shopping in a wheelchair when he had a bad day. The truth is that Jackson was pretty much destroyed by his trial on charges of sex abuse in 2005 (a trial, incidentally, during which he spent much of the time in a wheelchair, claiming to be in serious pain from a broken vertebra in his back). Though he was cleared of all charges, the sordid details that emerged during the trial left him mentally and physically broken. He fled from sight, and remains very fragile. Jackson lives in his own bubble, surrounded by staff and protected by a permanent security team of five. Most days are spent earnestly playing with his children Prince Michael, Paris Katherine and Prince Michael II (known as Blanket). There is hardly any social life beyond the odd lunch with a family member, because Michael just isn't up to it. His chief hobby is shopping for books or furniture - which partly explains why his finances are in such a mess. Gallery owners around the world know Jackson to be an impulsive and compulsive spender, who will drop £50,000 on bronze sculptures, urns and paintings in just ten or 15 minutes - even when he cannot afford them. As ever with Jackson, he is embroiled in a financial crisis and a whole series of lawsuits, including one from his former manager and PR, Raymone Bain, who is suing him for £29million, and another from a promoter who claims that Jackson's manager had promised as recently as 2008 that he would do a tour with his brothers instead. He is deeply in debt, and since moving out of his Neverland ranch in 2005 has lived a rootless existence, staying in hotels and temporary accommodation around the world (his latest base is a rented home in LA). The temptations of a multi-million-pound comeback tour must have been considerable. Here was a means to escape his debts and to re-establish his reputation. But did he ever truly believe he was capable of such a grandiose scheme? Speaking to his friends, it is clear that Jackson honestly wants to do the London concerts. He believes his legacy is at stake - and he wants to be remembered as a great performer. And why not? It is easy to forget what a talent Michael Jackson had. He sincerely wishes to show his children what he is - or was - capable of. But his last attempt at a stage performance was the disastrous mess at the World Music Awards in 2006, when he sang two lines of We Are The World and appeared too confused to carry on. Meanwhile, plans for the London shows get more lavish by the day. Michael apparently wants elephants, monkeys and parrots to be part of the stage show. He also wants to fly over the stage and to sing a duet with his 12-year-old son, Prince Michael. 'This is one hell of a show,' enthuses Phillips. 'It's going to be worth the wait.' Everyone wants to see him play. But whether he will make it to the stage or not is, alas, still very far from certain. [Edited 5/22/09 15:56pm] [Edited 5/22/09 16:01pm] Pile of crap MICHAEL JACKSON
R.I.P مايكل جاكسون للأبد 1958 | |
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That article's total BS. | |
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Yeah I hope its bullshit. | |
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